A Must Watch
Replies
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I took the the title "The Magic Pill" to mean there wasn't any! That's just me
I thought the documentary was worth watching.
That was my take too. My generation came along right after wide use of antibiotics got underway. I know some of my generation will load up on sugar and say I will take an extra Metformin as if it is a magic pill.
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OK just watched this movie and I am just blown away , now I want to try to do the keto again , I do low carb now , but I am going to do more research before I try again , and I don't know why I am not going into ketosis , it has been over 100 days and I am really struggling , but I am doing the diet , what am I missing , is it the metformin or the lantus holding me back ??? but Thank You so Much for telling us about this movie . it was amazing .3
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@tammyfranks2 it is on my heart to mention Dr. Jason Fung to you. I don't have a particular article or video to link, but please check out his stuff and see if anything is interesting to you. He has a book on Amazon I haven't read. I just know that I have loved every talk I've ever heard him do. Best wishes!1
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cricketpower wrote: »@tammyfranks2 it is on my heart to mention Dr. Jason Fung to you. I don't have a particular article or video to link, but please check out his stuff and see if anything is interesting to you. He has a book on Amazon I haven't read. I just know that I have loved every talk I've ever heard him do. Best wishes!
I will look him up Thank you so much
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https://www.dietdoctor.com/authors/dr-jason-fung-m-d
for anyone else who wants to watch his videos , here is a link1 -
Dr. Bernstein is a good resource for diabetics and is highly recommended by some. His book is available to borrow on Archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780316182690?q=dr.+bernstein's+diabetes. He has YouTube vids as well.6 -
I liked the film and thought it was interesting. I find that most documentaries these days have some sort of argument they are going to present and then footage that suits that argument and proves the point they are trying to make. With that in mind, I find the things that resonate with me throughout the film and maybe do a little more research outside of the confines of what the filmmaker is trying to say. It's always good to remain objective in most cases, in my opinion. From my personal experience the LCHF WOE has greatly benefited my health, I may not be extremely low carb or Keto but cutting out the majority of processed foods and sugars has shown significant results across the board. This WOE has kick started so many other healthy habits in my life so I can't knock it.3
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tammyfranks2 wrote: »OK just watched this movie and I am just blown away , now I want to try to do the keto again , I do low carb now , but I am going to do more research before I try again , and I don't know why I am not going into ketosis , it has been over 100 days and I am really struggling , but I am doing the diet , what am I missing , is it the metformin or the lantus holding me back ??? but Thank You so Much for telling us about this movie . it was amazing .
First, how do you know you're not in ketosis? If you're using the urine strips, it's likely a false negative. As the body adapts, fewer ketones are wasted, and the urine strips become less accurate.
That said, ketone production is insulin-moderated, so yes, the Lantus might be interfering. Metformin shouldn't, as its action is on increasing insulin sensitivity in liver (which means less insulin is required, and ideally, lower insulin levels). It might be worth revisiting your Lantus dosage if you haven't recently, to make sure you don't need the amount that you're currently taking.1 -
I took the the title "The Magic Pill" to mean there wasn't any! That's just me I thought the documentary was worth watching.
I took the title the same way. There IS no 'magic pill' folks. I'm so glad I watched this movie. Btw, before I was keto I spent time following the Specific Carbohydrate Diet and several of those forums. You noticed in this movie that one of the Moms put her boy on that diet (SCD) and saw some results but saw even greater results when her boy went LCHF/keto. The SCD did help many kids with autism. I love keto. I love not being hungry. I've been keto for almost 19 months and I'm still amazed at how satiated I am all the time.
One of the things I like about this forum is that folks here can post stuff like this and we'll usually see good, old-fashioned discussion on it for a while with studies and links provided along the way. Oh, and I second the recommendation of Dr. Fung and Dr. Bernstein.
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Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.12 -
I took the the title "The Magic Pill" to mean there wasn't any! That's just me I thought the documentary was worth watching.
I took it that way too. It is just so nice to see a doc about low carb and the positive things it does for some people after all the crappy What the Health type docs.
I start watching a lot of docs. but rarely can finish one, because science and personal experience.1 -
Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.
Best synopsis on this topic i've read...well put!5 -
I took the title the same way. I use docs the way I use books: to learn things. But, I'm responsible to consider what I read/watch in a context, with an analytical lens. I'm reminded of a study a while back that got a lot of press. On the main boards folks felt it vindicated "iffym". Here, folks felt like it supported a low carb approach. I felt like it was solid evidence for a low CRAP approach. All from the same study. Sometimes what you're not eating is as important as what you are. That was a strong message of The Magic Pill, IMHO.retirehappy wrote: »I took the the title "The Magic Pill" to mean there wasn't any! That's just me I thought the documentary was worth watching.
I took it that way too. It is just so nice to see a doc about low carb and the positive things it does for some people after all the crappy What the Health type docs.
I start watching a lot of docs. but rarely can finish one, because science and personal experience.
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That said, ketone production is insulin-moderated, so yes, the Lantus might be interfering. Metformin shouldn't, as its action is on increasing insulin sensitivity in liver (which means less insulin is required, and ideally, lower insulin levels). It might be worth revisiting your Lantus dosage if you haven't recently, to make sure you don't need the amount that you're currently taking
yep I have went from 30 units of lantus to 18 units and will as the weeks go by drop it lower .
I do the strips once in a while and it is always just trace , but i do pee alot LOL0 -
baconslave wrote: »Dr. Bernstein is a good resource for diabetics and is highly recommended by some. His book is available to borrow on Archive.org:
https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780316182690?q=dr.+bernstein's+diabetes. He has YouTube vids as well.
LOVE him!
Fung is very helpful to diabetics too but Bernstein has excellent advice!6 -
Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.
No. Please don’t put words in my mouth and expand on my comment. There is debate, and there is drama. Let’s move on from the latter, shouldn’t even have mentioned it in the first place.
I enjoyed the documentary and found a lot of it to be spot on from my own past experiences and talking to others (who’ve had illness, disease, etc).7 -
Great discussion, but I get why this comment ("Healthy balanced minimal processed foods lifestyle is the key to everything.") struck a nerve.
This way of eating is not a diet, diets do not work. This WOE is a sustainable way to keep my T2 diabetes in remission as well as keeping my gut healthy and brain fed. There is so much misinformation out there, and it's so frustrating to hear my mom and sister, who are both RNs spew the "balanced meals across all food groups" mumbo-jumbo. Grains and sugar have no nutritional value and it's makes no sense for me as a T2 diabetic to consume them.
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I've been around the boards for a long time and tend to draw my own lines regarding "diet woo" whether it is keto, carnivore, vegan, IIFYM or whatever diet. I try to keep an open mind.
If I were a parent with an autistic child, this documentary would give me hope. If I were diagnosed with cancer, this documentary would give me hope. If I watched a similar documentary regarding veganism with similar n=1 results, the same would apply. Hope. If them, why not me? Yes, I understand "false hope".
I see nothing wrong with tossing out overly processed foods from one's diet. That is the primary message of the film to me.
Perhaps it is my years of working with special needs children and adults back in the 70s as a pioneer in the "new field". If something is not working, "try another way". I much prefer the idea of diet of raw vegetables or high fat foods to Ritalin or Thorazine (my age and current lack if knowledge of new drugs may be showing).
My real hope is that research continues. If not this (method), then try another way.7 -
tammyfranks2 wrote: »That said, ketone production is insulin-moderated, so yes, the Lantus might be interfering. Metformin shouldn't, as its action is on increasing insulin sensitivity in liver (which means less insulin is required, and ideally, lower insulin levels). It might be worth revisiting your Lantus dosage if you haven't recently, to make sure you don't need the amount that you're currently taking
yep I have went from 30 units of lantus to 18 units and will as the weeks go by drop it lower .
I do the strips once in a while and it is always just trace , but i do pee alot LOL
If you’re seeing trace, you are indeed in ketosis.2 -
thank you @Sunny_Bunny0
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Gracie12311 wrote: »Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.
No. Please don’t put words in my mouth and expand on my comment. There is debate, and there is drama. Let’s move on from the latter, shouldn’t even have mentioned it in the first place.
I enjoyed the documentary and found a lot of it to be spot on from my own past experiences and talking to others (who’ve had illness, disease, etc).
If I've interpreted it differently, then pardon me, but the poster you were referring to in your original response wasn't creating drama, nor were they unwarranted for expressing a personal opinion that didn't fall in line with enjoying the documentary. Much like my own statement wasn't intended to stir up drama, rather it was meant to highlight that members of the same community can have their own thoughts and opinions, free of emotion or attachment to the topic at hand.4 -
Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.
Actually LCHF is many times a better diet than my old WOE in my case. One was killing me prematurely and LCHF/Keto is leading to a reversal of my premature death risks. I have no idea when I will expire but I am actively going for 110 walking and talking the entire way.
I agree there are many ways of eating that are just fine for others. After I realized not everyone has strong reasons to live and that included me I then got to work on changing my way of thinking. I realized I was going to have to outlive many of my high school friends to just have a shot as seeing grandkids and be around 100 to see great grandkids.
For a long time I thought I could eat anything I wanted and live a long healthy life. Now I eat how much I want of what I want but my wants have changed greatly so I am no longer restricted from my wants. 5 -
Thank you ! I watched - great film-loved it!1
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Gracie12311 wrote: »I came over and joined this group to get away from those posters above (and others). They post the same things in the general forum groups, create quite the drama, and do not follow this WOE. So why join here?
This is really disappointing.
This is vaguely asking for an echo chamber. Supporters of low carb/ketogenic diets do not all need to agree or support every low carb/keto topic or piece of advice solicited by anecdote or agenda. I understand the need for belonging to a like-minded community, but debate and discussions with differing opinions are productive to further understanding the science behind a given topic, rather than drinking the same keto kool-aid based on personal blogs, social media articles, documentaries, or personal endorsements.
Diets should not be dogmatic or verging on religious zealotry. If a certain diet works for you, it's because it works due to personal preference, adherence, enjoyability, ease, helps with managing certain symptoms, etc. but not because it's "better" than any other diet, in general.
Actually LCHF is many times a better diet than my old WOE in my case. One was killing me prematurely and LCHF/Keto is leading to a reversal of my premature death risks. I have no idea when I will expire but I am actively going for 110 walking and talking the entire way.
I agree there are many ways of eating that are just fine for others. After I realized not everyone has strong reasons to live and that included me I then got to work on changing my way of thinking. I realized I was going to have to outlive many of my high school friends to just have a shot as seeing grandkids and be around 100 to see great grandkids.
For a long time I thought I could eat anything I wanted and live a long healthy life. Now I eat how much I want of what I want but my wants have changed greatly so I am no longer restricted from my wants.
And that's great you've improved your health and quality of life via diet change. I'm genuinely happy for you and anyone else who has experienced similar results. But that is completely separate from my point of accepting another's individual opinion about the same low carb documentary or evidence that this thread is based on.
However, since we do have differing views on many things, as humans do, I'm curious if there's any disagreement with this post Robb Wolf uploaded a couple of days ago. It's not a documentary, but there is documented scientific evidence provided to substantiate his stance, which is what I personally feel lends itself to be considered credible, rather than relying solely on anecdotal experiences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC5w3IV5Agk 0 -
That poor girl, Shelby. If she feels like she is starving to death and thinks it is because she is eating too little protein maybe someone should 1st tell her that she is just flat out eating too little of everything. If my math is correct and she is eating 40 grams of protein and that is 20% of her calories, she's eating only 800 calories. Correct? Eat some food girl. Eat. No wonder you're hungry.
I might write more later. I'm not really into debating protein and being "kicked out of ketosis" though will say the video presents a strong case that it's not really going to happen except perhaps in some extreme case. I did like his method for removing doubt: fast, not fat adapted, eating no carbs and eating only protein.
Frankly, I just wish more folks understood that ketosis does not directly cause weight loss. It does help someone (such as me) adhere to calories (via hunger suppression) thus be more compliant but ketosis itself is not a direct cause of weight loss. If it were, Phinney and Westman and D'Agostino would have all wasted away. The same is true for individuals who eat ketogenic diets 24/7/365 for year and years to control their seizures. I digress...
Good Robb Wolf video. I'm off to take pictures of a pool. Later.
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I thought that video was well done and made a good case for eating adequate protein without needlessly worrying about the BG that could be made from gluconeogenesis.
Good video. Not as entertaining as Magic Pill though.
Like @kpk54 I was baffled by the low calorie intake by the person he was counselling. 20% protein is fine for people at maintenance, or for those losing at a reasonable caloric deficit. To be only eating 800 kcal a day, I hope Shelby was completely inactive, tiny (really tiny) and had IR. otherwise her daily intake is closer to what some consider to be a fasting level of food more than anything.0 -
I've got 8 more min to watch of it, and I'm out of time. So stay tuned for my 86.5 cents.
But I think my pushy *kitten* has already made it clear that I'm pro-protein.
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The RW doc was very helpful. Thanks. Also enjoyed Magic Pill.
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I'm one of those who has to keep my protein at a moderately-low level because if it gets too high I gain and I am no longer in ketosis. My advice is for folks to monitor their own glucose levels and go from there.
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I'm one of those who has to keep my protein at a moderately-low level because if it gets too high I gain and I am no longer in ketosis. My advice is for folks to monitor their own glucose levels and go from there.
I'm curious what levels of protein affects you like that, and is it while losing, maintaining or gaining.
I know that's personal, so if you'd rather not share that info, please ignore me.
I've just never played around deliberately with my protein so I don't know much about how it affects me.
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This discussion has been closed.