Trayvon and the media
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So....I just found this video. It's not great quality but I have to agree that it doesn't appear that Zimmerman suffered the injuries he claimed. I also read an article earlier today that stated 3 witnesses have said it was Trayvon yelling for help. I was at work when I read it. I'll see if I can find it again. I'm pretty sure it was an article on CNN though. Anywho...here's the video.
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html
This is interesting. If the police had done a more thorough investigation to begin with, we wouldn't be in this mess. I'm waiting for the FBI to release their findings on the audio tape. This case has caught so much fire, it's hard to tell what is real or fake anymore. The pictures of the Martin kid being a thug are now thought to be fakes, which is sad because pics of a person shouldn't sway a persons thoughts one way or another.0 -
So....I just found this video. It's not great quality but I have to agree that it doesn't appear that Zimmerman suffered the injuries he claimed. I also read an article earlier today that stated 3 witnesses have said it was Trayvon yelling for help. I was at work when I read it. I'll see if I can find it again. I'm pretty sure it was an article on CNN though. Anywho...here's the video.
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html
This is interesting. If the police had done a more thorough investigation to begin with, we wouldn't be in this mess. I'm waiting for the FBI to release their findings on the audio tape. This case has caught so much fire, it's hard to tell what is real or fake anymore. The pictures of the Martin kid being a thug are now thought to be fakes, which is sad because pics of a person shouldn't sway a persons thoughts one way or another.
The pictures aren't fake they're just of a different kid with the same/similar name (not postive which of the 2). They weren't photoshopped or anything. I completely agree though that the case was not investigated properly, although I will say that the police did want to arrest Zimmerman but the DA's office told them no because "there wasn't suffcient evidence." Knowing what the witnesses have stated, I'm interested in the FBI's findings as well. There are another 2 witnesses who stated they heard the commotion and ran outside. They arrived at the scene mere seconds after hearing the gun shot and state that Zimmerman was standing over Trayvon stradling (sp? it's to early and I haven't had any coffee) his body. Which in my mind makes it very difficult for Trayvon to have been on top of him when the gun went off. Zimmerman would have had to be very quick to be able to get from a postion on the ground, under Trayvon to where he was standing over him. Oh, and there would have been blood from Trayvon on his body and clothes if he had shot him from a defensive position on the ground with Trayvon beating him. I didn't see evidence in that video of blood of that magnitude on his clothing.0 -
Um I see this is the wrong group for me so I will politely exit...because this ain't debate..its hate
Really what part is hate? So sick of that crap!0 -
Like I said, we don't know the details, but I have some sense that people are just picking sides based on who they like or relate too. Zimmerman is not a "big dude" compared to the 6'4" teenager. And yes he was told he didn't need to follow Martin. But he did, and it's not illegal. What is illegal is beating the **** out of someone. We don't know what was said. We don't know who threw the first punch. We do know that everyone has the right to walk down a public street, both Zimmerman and Martin.
We do know that everyone has the right to free speech and we don know that it is within a persons right to talk to anyone at anytime on public property. We also know that assault is illegal. I find it hard to believe that everyone here who is supporting Martin thinks that an adult has no right to walk up to another person in their neighborhood and ask a what they were up to without getting bodyslammed. Really? Even if Zimmerman has low character, even if he verbally harassed Martin....Martin had a phone as well. HE could have called the cops! Sad thing is, no matter what the circumstances are, I do not think Martin deserved to be shot. But no american deserves to get the tar kicked out of them either. I try to put myself in both of these guys shoes and I actually feel bad for both of them. NO ONE KNOWS what happend! There are so many X-factors do this that I could go on for several more paragraphs theorizing on what happened, puttin my self in either one of their shoes.
Everyone has the right to defend themselves. If Zimmeram attacked Martin, then Zimmerman is a murderer since Martin was fighting in self defense. If Martin lost his temper with this guy and was beating the tar out of him, then Zimmerman used self defense. End of story. It's a scary world out there folks, so the lesson is, if you don't want to see crap like this happen, we need to let our young people know this is the kind of stupidity, the loss of life, that can happen as a result of physical violence.
Just as an aside, this has been one of the underlying arguments in favor of gun control (I know, quaint concept, isn't it? ). The idea that in an emotional situation, easy access to lethal force, esp if you have no real experience in being in those situations, can instantly turn a general verbal confrontation into a deadly one. Had one of the participants not been armed, he might not have pursued the young man so aggressively, or perhaps would have been less confrontational (assuming he was confrontational at all)? Holding a gun tends to make weak people feel more powerful and makes them want to assert that power.0 -
Um I see this is the wrong group for me so I will politely exit...because this ain't debate..its hate
Really what part is hate? So sick of that crap!
Ditto. Most every topic here we have disagreements and many varied but civil opinions. I have seen very little hate in this group as well.0 -
A man shot a kid dead. at the very least, the very least, he should have been arrested and charged with murder. had that kid wrestled the gun off him and shot him in self defence, do you think he'd be walking the streets? Its absolutely absurd to me that a man can carry a gun, pursue someone, shoot them dead, and then go home.0
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A man shot a kid dead. at the very least, the very least, he should have been arrested and charged with murder. had that kid wrestled the gun off him and shot him in self defence, do you think he'd be walking the streets? Its absolutely absurd to me that a man can carry a gun, pursue someone, shoot them dead, and then go home.
And that's the big issue. There wouldn't be as much uproar if he was at least arrested and the case properly investigated. It is not unusual for someone to be arrested and additionl charges brought later or dropped. I understand that they were applying the stand your ground law, but they basically took his word and moved on. It should have been thouroughly investigated, and it wasn't. ALL witnesses should have been interviewed. Some of the ones who called 911 weren't even questioned up to a week later. The parents couldn't get answers. I believe nothing would have been done if they didn't make a big stink. It seems as if the more information that comes out, the more suspicious everything seems. Too many conflicting accounts. I pray that there are actual original and documented statements because everyone has time to change stories and formulate scenarios, especially the more and more it is discussed.0 -
So....I just found this video. It's not great quality but I have to agree that it doesn't appear that Zimmerman suffered the injuries he claimed. I also read an article earlier today that stated 3 witnesses have said it was Trayvon yelling for help. I was at work when I read it. I'll see if I can find it again. I'm pretty sure it was an article on CNN though. Anywho...here's the video.
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html
This is interesting. If the police had done a more thorough investigation to begin with, we wouldn't be in this mess. I'm waiting for the FBI to release their findings on the audio tape. This case has caught so much fire, it's hard to tell what is real or fake anymore. The pictures of the Martin kid being a thug are now thought to be fakes, which is sad because pics of a person shouldn't sway a persons thoughts one way or another.
Exactly! And I still don't consider any of the "new photos", actual or not, of him to be threatening. What about them makes him threatening or suspicious? Besides it's not like Zimmerman would have any insight on this kds life other than what he would ave made up in his head based on how he looked to him. In any case, it makes the whole situation even more questionable, because if he indeed appeared formidable, threatening, and suspicious, that is even less of a reason to pursue him.0 -
He was acting in his volunteer capacity has neighborhood watch captain/leader. I know that official neighborhood watch programs disapprove of the things George did but that is not the case. Its was not a registered group. Regardless Just because he was operating outside of protocol and he followed him. DOES NOT make him a cold blooded murderer.
Nope the fact he shot an unarmed 17 year old kid makes him a cold blooded murdererIf indeed evidence proves that yravon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman when he was shot will you all chagne you minds about him being murdered in "cold blood'?
There is footage of Zimmerman walking into the police station that night. There are no visas bruises. No signs of blood. (on a light shirt) His shirt appears clean. So he wasn't defending himself.I think it is sick that Zimmerman has been hung with no trial. He is in hiding for hi slife, cannot see his family and has groups such as the black panthers with a price tag on his head.
Blame the police for that. By them not doing their job they failed Zimmerman and they failed Trayvon.Thu 03/29/12 08:06 AM
Um I see this is the wrong group for me so I will politely exit...because this ain't debate..its hate
Yup. I'm in tears reading the racists in this topic.0 -
No, shooting someone does not automatically make you a cold blooded murderer. I know a few thousand veterans that would agree with that statement so be very cautious of your broad sweeping generalizations. Neither does the age of the victim.He was acting in his volunteer capacity has neighborhood watch captain/leader. I know that official neighborhood watch programs disapprove of the things George did but that is not the case. Its was not a registered group. Regardless Just because he was operating outside of protocol and he followed him. DOES NOT make him a cold blooded murderer.
Nope the fact he shot an unarmed 17 year old kid makes him a cold blooded murdererIf indeed evidence proves that yravon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman when he was shot will you all chagne you minds about him being murdered in "cold blood'?
There is footage of Zimmerman walking into the police station that night. There are no visas bruises. No signs of blood. (on a light shirt) His shirt appears clean. So he wasn't defending himself.I think it is sick that Zimmerman has been hung with no trial. He is in hiding for hi slife, cannot see his family and has groups such as the black panthers with a price tag on his head.
Blame the police for that. By them not doing their job they failed Zimmerman and they failed Trayvon.Thu 03/29/12 08:06 AM
Um I see this is the wrong group for me so I will politely exit...because this ain't debate..its hate
Yup. I'm in tears reading the racists in this topic.
Im glad you are willing to accept grainy security video from 4-6 hours after the injuries occurred as solid proof.
Please quote the racists comments, with your brief explanation of why you feel that it is discriminatory towards someone of another race, so that I can report them to a mod.
Dont make accusations you cant corroborate0 -
Anyone who looks at this case and is supporting the murderer over the dead teenager is a racist. I'm sorry if you don't realise that but to defend the MURDERER over the dead teenage boy stinks to high heaven.
Let's go over the facts again.
A teenage boy was walking home. Unarmed. Due to the fact it was raining (a fact that is never mentioned) he was picked as suspicious by a neighbor. This neighbor was not part of any Neighborhood Watch group. Said neighbor had a history of violence and had been charged as a result of said history. He calls 911. He is specifically told following the boy is not needed. He does so with a loaded weapon. The teenage boy on the phone to his girlfriend states he is being followed. He is then confronted by neighbor. Boy ends up dead.
PLEASE tell me how the boy is at fault? How the man with the loaded gun is the one fearing for his safety? The scumbag who could have avoided KILLING A TEENAGE BOY if he'd done what he was told and stayed in his ****ing car.
Those are the facts. We now have his father and brother stating that he was attacked. Despite the (yes grainy) footage showing no evidence of any injuries of even dirty clothing. His father and brother (and the police leaks) are stating that he was attacked by Trayvon and that his face was beat into the ground. That Trayvon was on top of him beating him visciously when he shot him in self defence.
Yeah, right.
If you can look at the police released evidence (because that is what we have. The police keep contaminating the evidence by releasing it) and state that Trayvon was the aggressor and that Zimmerman was the victim then yes I have no doubt in stating you are a racist. I want Zimmerman charged. He should have been charged that night.
It's intresting that the police's first attempt at victim blaming had Trayvon jumping Zimmerman from behind. The newest 'evidence' (i.e. the latest story that has been made up to exonerate Zimmerman) has Trayvon stepping in front of Zimmerman and attacking him.0 -
Other way around but yes in the eyes of the court Mr. Zimmerman is absolutely innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is another matter, and that's all this little debate is.
So just to be clear you are proud of this? You are proud of the fact that you can incite hate and promote false statements in hopes of ruining a mans life. With out due process or a proper investigation?
I just want to make sure Im understanding that...cause it really does explain a lot about your responses to so many other topics. You cant debate with some one who doesn't have common sense or doesn't use logical reasoning.
Here you accuse someone of inciting hateUm I see this is the wrong group for me so I will politely exit...because this ain't debate..its hate
Really what part is hate? So sick of that crap!
Yet you attack this lady for citing hate on here . Hmmm why is that? Could she not be speaking of the same hate that you are? Or are you profiling?
:flowerforyou:
Or, maybe the hate she is talking about are the snide comments, the underhanded insults, and just plain accusing people of not having commonsense if they disagree with you. Derailment using intellectualization maybe? (I don’t know what she is referring to for real) But glad to know you HATE crap, or hate, or something.
I do see that you like a lively debate. :explode:0 -
Is it determined that Zimmerman shot Martin after/while he claimed being punched to the ground and beaten by Martin? Did he get him off of him and retreat to shoot?
I guess what I'm wondering is if he could have shot him at such close range (Martin being on top of him) without getting Martin's blood all over him (change of clothes? old clothes in evidence?) or was he able to retreat (but not retreat and kill him upright).
Maybe we'll hear more about ballistics/forensics part of the investigation soon..0 -
Anyone who looks at this case and is supporting the murderer over the dead teenager is a racist.
I didn't vote for Obama I was already considered a racist... thanks though. *insert stereotype about blonde women*0 -
Anyone who looks at this case and is supporting the murderer over the dead teenager is a racist. I'm sorry if you don't realise that but to defend the MURDERER over the dead teenage boy stinks to high heaven.
Let's go over the facts again.
A teenage boy was walking home. Unarmed. Due to the fact it was raining (a fact that is never mentioned) he was picked as suspicious by a neighbor. This neighbor was not part of any Neighborhood Watch group. Said neighbor had a history of violence and had been charged as a result of said history. He calls 911. He is specifically told following the boy is not needed. He does so with a loaded weapon. The teenage boy on the phone to his girlfriend states he is being followed. He is then confronted by neighbor. Boy ends up dead.
PLEASE tell me how the boy is at fault? How the man with the loaded gun is the one fearing for his safety? The scumbag who could have avoided KILLING A TEENAGE BOY if he'd done what he was told and stayed in his ****ing car.
Those are the facts. We now have his father and brother stating that he was attacked. Despite the (yes grainy) footage showing no evidence of any injuries of even dirty clothing. His father and brother (and the police leaks) are stating that he was attacked by Trayvon and that his face was beat into the ground. That Trayvon was on top of him beating him visciously when he shot him in self defence.
Yeah, right.
If you can look at the police released evidence (because that is what we have. The police keep contaminating the evidence by releasing it) and state that Trayvon was the aggressor and that Zimmerman was the victim then yes I have no doubt in stating you are a racist. I want Zimmerman charged. He should have been charged that night.
It's intresting that the police's first attempt at victim blaming had Trayvon jumping Zimmerman from behind. The newest 'evidence' (i.e. the latest story that has been made up to exonerate Zimmerman) has Trayvon stepping in front of Zimmerman and attacking him.
Not a single one of us were there. That is a fact. Maybe Zimmerman was in the right maybe he was in the wrong. But to call people racists because they don't automatically choose sides without that facts is ridiculous.
It's no wonder racism still exists, other than the truely racist people, you have those who have to call everyone a racist and be an instagator.0 -
Calling someone a racist doesn't make them a racist. If you are, you are, if you are not, you are not. But it's an interesting concept that calling someone a racist could cause racism, will have to ponder that. But I'm being a bit cheeky. However, if someone is a racist, they will reveal themselves through statements and actions. If a system is racist, it will show itself through patterns. I think it is OK to ask the question. I don't get the fear and anger that comes from just bringing it up to be explored. Straight up traditional racist are easy to deal with. It's those who don't realize or refuse to acknowledge it that are dangerous. Institutionalized racism is the worst offender. I think it will be good to see if any of this played a factor in this case or not.
The term "institutional racism" describes societal patterns that have the net effect of imposing oppressive or otherwise negative conditions against identifiable groups on the basis of race or ethnicity
rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
Origin:
1865–70; < French racisme. See race2 , -ism0 -
Anyone who looks at this case and is supporting the murderer over the dead teenager is a racist.
I didn't vote for Obama I was already considered a racist... thanks though. *insert stereotype about blonde women*
I know this wasn't in response to me, but I don't get it. Surely you are not calling yourself a racist? And I didn't see anyone mention Obama, or did I miss it? A little confused...
But I would be curious to know why she said that or have her elaborate what she meant. I'd like to understand her point of view.0 -
So now that more information is out about what happened between GZ and Trayvon i.e. the teenage witness who saw GZ lying on the ground moaning and the cops seeing that he had been punched in the face and contusions when he had his head slammed on the ground, plus the recent releasing of information on Trayvons facebook and recent school problems bringing to light that he might not have been as innocent as the pictures they spread all over the news of him made him appear. Does anyone here think that GZ was judged prematurely by the public without all the facts? Has anyone's mind changed a bit? I think this is going to be a very interesting and tough case to try...........if they get that far. Thoughts?
It will surely make it to trial you can bet on that. why??? b/c regardless of race or any rumors we might hear the facts are:
a 17 year old unarmed boy was murdered
GZ was told NOT to follow him and HE DID (disobeying orders)
IF GZ did follow TM and Martin felt threatened so what if GZ got hit b/c TM had the right to defend himself
There was no blood or injuries on the videos released when GZ was taken into custody right after the shooting to show proof of his "attack" by Marting.
When looking at the facts and with the FBI investigating, best believe there is a really good case0 -
No, I haven't changed my opinion. I believe there is clear evidence that Zimmerman started to pursue Trayvon. When does self defense change over? When you attack me, I start kicking your *kitten*, and then you're worried for your life and shoot me, that still leaves you as the aggressor. Furthermore, when does wearing a hoodie make you "dressed like a gangster?" And, what "reputation for being up to no good" other than a school allegation of [possibly] having had pot? Are we going to start executing teenagers who smoke pot? How can you possibly say this kid was "living like a thug", fbmandy? Honestly, paint this kid white and I don't think you'd be saying the same thing.
The MAJOR MAJOR PROBLEM REMAINS THAT ZIMMERMAN WAS NOT EVEN TAKEN IN FOR QUESTIONING. People can get off on self-defense - WITH INVESTIGATION. You can't just shoot someone dead and be allowed to walk home by the police. Think about it: if you killed an intruder in your home, you'd still almost definitely be taken in for questioning! I'm extremely concerned that ALL potential evidence is now totally compromised by GZ being allowed to drift, etc. etc.
Finally, the news story about the attack - which certainly MAY represent fact - actually only represents the story that GZ has shared. Trayvon doesn't have a side now, because he's dead. A smear campaign on the reputation of a child is a great frickin way to distract from the fact that his killer was allowed to go home with NO further questioning, that his body was drug tested and no urgent attempts were made by anyone to identify him and contact his family.
This remains disgusting and a severe miscarriage of AT THE VERY LEAST basic procedure. We should all be worried. Unless we're white.
Boom, perfectly said!0 -
A guy with a loaded gun that has a vehicle and approaches someone on foot that was unarmed (did he think Trayvon was armed?) and actually ends up resorting to voluntary manslaughter? That's not a good start regardless.
As more comes out about the 911 call and the recording of Trayvon's call with his girlfriend, more light will be shed on the criminal liability here.
Neither apparently has a squeaky clean record, either. Does anyone know the physical specs on the two?
He actually mentioned in the 911 call 2x that the suspect has something in his hand. Its clear from that that George has to assume that he might be armed. Just as any other police officer would do the same.
funny how you say any other police officer, zimmerman was NOT a police officer0
