Runners that need some nutritional accountability
Elise4270
Posts: 8,375 Member
So I'd like to not clog up the running challenge thread with hot dog talk. If you'd like some honest support with your diet choices, just make that known here.
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Me first. I need to really dial in that balanced diet. My model is the DQS system by Matt Fitzgerald. I'm also loosely overlapping that with the 21 day fix portions.
How you can help me? If I eat something that's not such a great choice, just please offer a better alternative.
Now @karllundy, this is for you.
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My biggest challenge is lunch and pre planning. I usually buy a Chick-fil-A salad at lunch and have a tuna sandwich from Quiznos on Fridays.
Is there an easy way to make this cheaper? I could pack lunches, but I'm so bad about it. How can I make it easier or get in the habit?
@karllundy I notice you seem to have a higher carb diet. Is that what you are going for? What are your goals with your food? I know you're probably the primary care taker and that often poses some challenges.
I do rice cooker meals and crock pot to help with planning. Throw something in and by time lunch rolls around we have rice, veggies with lean ground turkey. Last week I did a sweet potato, black bean, turkey chili in the slow cooker. It went over well.0 -
I don't need a lot of support on the diet side, and it's doubtful that I have a lot of positive support to give, but here's some thoughts that have gone through my head:
Behavioral and emotional issues are huge on the diet side. They are frequently bigger issues than the pure nutritional issues. Address the emotions, and it's easier to address the food. This is easier said than done; some of us eat for every reason in the world other than being hungry. I have struggled with boredom eating, stress eating, and social eating. I mostly have these under control now, but I have to remain aware of *why* I want to eat something.
There was some discussion of paleo and low carb on the challenge thread. Each individual has to find what works for him or her; low carb is a non-starter for me. So I will be of no help to those who are following a low carb or paleo strategy.
I have seen that I need more protein for satiety than the standard balanced diet recommendations; but I'm happy with being on the low end of the amount of fat in the standard balanced diet recommendations. So I'm eating moderately high carb basically all the time. I started with targeting ranges of carbs, fat, and protein. Over time, this has simplified into a minimum target for grams of protein, a minimum target for grams of fat, and let the carbs take care of themselves. The minimum target for fat became necessary because limiting calories while eating for satiety tended to push me into a lower fat diet overall. It's a balancing game. I know I can't afford to go so low fat that I have problems absorbing the fat soluble vitamins.
Against that backdrop, I have no forbidden foods; but some are too calorie-expensive for the satisfaction they give me, and others are better to avoid because it's hard for me to stop eating them once I start. That's the behavioral stuff again.
And yes, I do best when I measure *everything*. If I have to make estimates, I am likely to underestimate the calories I eat. I may underestimate significantly. So for me, it's best if I limit the stuff that's hard to measure or of unknown nutritional composition.9 -
@Elise4270 in terms of planning lunches, I have no choice. I work in an old barn about a mile from the nearest shop, which sells only junk. The nearest town is three miles away and I only get half an hour for lunch.
Lately I have been making salads (alternating salad duties with my housemate). Sometimes I might make a rice salad base, and then add different things to it each day. So before I go to bed each night I have a little ritual of putting my lunch together. A small jam jar works for a dressing. Today I have a salad mix of beetroot, salad leaves, tomato, peppers, olives, chicken and halloumi. I don't always add a starchy carb mix to it but sometimes I feel I need it.
I like the variety I get with this system for lunch - I can mix and match the protein element and I get something fresh and healthy. I used to bring leftovers from dinner the night before but found I was over-eating.
It really is about getting in the habit. Some people put something together on the weekend for the week, but I find what works for me is actually putting something together whilst I'm preparing dinner. So I cook dinner and get everything ready for salad whilst I'm in the kitchen anyway.4 -
I agree that extreme food choices don't work for everyone. I looked at Food Combining (trophology) for a while and one of the things I learnt from it is that people tend to be either protein-based people or starchy vegetable-based people.
I do much better on a protein-focused diet. I find if I don't get some decent protein at breakfast, I remain hungry. So toast and jam doesn't cut it, but toast and scrambled egg will do fine. I naturally lean towards plenty of protein and fats, and few starchy carbs, and will feel 'heavy' if I eat lots of pizza.
I also love vegetables (I actually feel really lucky that I dream of a big bowl of vegetables rather than pizza!!) so tend to pile my plate up with so many vegetables there's little room for a mountain of rice. Having said that, I also notice when my body wants or needs carbs. So my breakfast is a mix of seeds, muesli, oats, cottage cheese and yoghurt which gives me that morning carbs boost.
I don't avoid fats (I actually welcome fats as they help satiety), don't do low fat anything, and lean towards fresh fruit and vegetables, limited food processing, and ethically produced meats.
What @MobyCarp says about some foods being dangerous due to behaviour - yup, peanuts are a bad thing for me to buy.
I'd not heard of that DQS thing from Matt Fitzgerald before, but it makes a lot of sense. I'd like to think I'd score highly but I probably should check that before I get a nasty shock!!2 -
Thanks @girlinahat ! I need to just get organized and have that yummy salad! I love beets. I suppose I can go shop and buy about half of what I think I need, so it doesn't go to waste. And get in the habit of making my lunch the night before. Like, 8pm is now make your lunch time.
I love the DQS app. It was 1$. And you can use it online free. There are apps that are similar but I felt like it was worth the dollar to support it. So far my best score is about 22. Of course, I've had a few 3 days! Yikes!0 -
OK, I'm in. @Elise4270 - I'm not so worried about high vs. low carb at this point, but I need to cut out the high level of sugar and overall amount at this point. I go over almost every day! Like @girlinahat said, I definitely don't worry about fat. I find that full fat dairy, especially, does a great job of filling me up.1
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My biggest challenge is not overeating / making poor choices in the evening. I tend to get tired and then grab whatever is fast and nearby (at home, not necessarily out). Also, I should probably try to cut back on diet soda, but not too worried about it now.1
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I just try to make better choices one meal at a time.
Like adult cereal with less sugar and throw in some chocolate whey protein, and I found Halo top ice cream to be a nice treat without all the sugar and 20g protein, or making a whey protein shake with frozen blueberries, coconut/almond silk, and flax seed. Ground turkey instead of ground beef, and grass feed beef when possible.
I buy steamer bags for snacks too. Just add a little lemon pepper and coconut oil.
Light baby bell cheese and low sodium V8 are a nice snack too.
I try to decide what I can have before I want something bad. Thats been the biggest challenge for me, planning. I have so many great cookbooks, but don't make the time to cook out of them like I should.0 -
@Elise4270 My biggest challenge is lunch and pre planning. I usually buy a Chick-fil-A salad at lunch and have a tuna sandwich from Quiznos on Fridays.
Is there an easy way to make this cheaper? I could pack lunches, but I'm so bad about it. How can I make it easier or get in the habit?
I try to make the salad the night before. The salads I make from home are much better than anything you'd buy and they usually are much lower in sodium. I suggest mixing things up by adding avocado, dried berries and low fat feta. As a big fan of mustard, I combine brown mustard with apple cider vinegar and create a very low calorie dressing. Leftover meats can be used as protein but if your out then a simple hard boiled egg will do.(If you only use the egg white then you save calories and greatly reduce cholesterol.) Fresh local vegetables have a way a making a boring salad a delightful adventure. A key to packing the night before is having a good lunch bag that keeps things cool.(Salads that satisfy will take up much more room then your average lunch box and you can pack the dressing separately.) Another small trick to packing my salad is to do so while I'm cleaning up dinner. This is helpful when your using leftovers because instead of packing them away your making them into lunch. Lastly, I would say that if you want to pack salads think about a midweek additional shopping trip. Fresh greens are essential.1 -
Thanks @cburke8909 ! I like mustard and that dressing sounds good. It all sounds good really.
I'm going to make goal to make salad, maybe this week, but definitely next week.
I'm so jealous of those of you that are so disciplined to make dinner and pack lunches. I'm up to making dinner once or twice week. Dinner before was nachos, tacos, pizza, and fend for yourself stuff.
Okay. Adulting in the kitchen. I can do this.0 -
@karllundy I was gonna inquiry about what you were thinking when you had those Mike and Ike's. But all is forgiven with the hefeweizen. But now I want one..0
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Well @Elise4270, I work from home so I have no excuse... I do make salads and have lots of veggies to snack on with some hummus or salsa. I also make my own dressing but mostly because I just don't care for as much oil as most prepared dressing have. I use mustard and shallots and some minced fresh garlic with a bit of oil and the vinegar. Sometimes I get a flavored vinegar (pomegranate is my favorite) just to change it up. One thing I find that helps, even when I am working from home, is to make a big bag or bowl of torn lettuce for the week on Sunday evening along with cutting up a variety of veggies to add in. I don't mix them together until the night before or in the morning because it tastes fresher to me that way. I add in my protein when I am ready to eat... could be left over chicken or whatever we have on hand. Canned chicken or tuna both work in a pinch and sometimes I add in some Gorgonzola or bleu cheese and maybe a bit of bacon.
I have a different challenge for my diet... I had been having issues with extremely low energy which was affecting my ability to run and it just felt so hard every time I tried even a short run. After working with a nutritionist and many tests I have been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue. Essentially my adrenal system is not functioning properly after many many years of severely limiting calories and other external stresses. I have never really eaten poorly but I wasn't eating enough of the right foods. The less I ate, the less energy I had (of course) but I also wasn't able to lose the 5 pounds that I had gained when injured and not running. So I tried eating less carbs and more protein to see if that would help but apparently all that did was put even more stress on my kidneys and adrenal system... seems your body (simplistically) uses carbs to produce many of the hormones that keep us healthy and functioning. That along with 1200-1500 calories being not enough and my body was shutting down. So at the doctors recommendation I have worked my way up to 1600 on rest days and 2000 on running days. All that said my running is coming back to being fun and enjoyable most of the time as long as I eat enough. The downside though has been a gain of 15lbs and my clothes are starting not to fit. I need to find a way to balance what and how I am eating to fuel my body and maybe start to lose a few pounds! My plan for now is to continue as the nutritionist has instructed until after my race at the end of the month and then revisit with her to determine a plan going forward to start to lose those extra pounds.
Also the split for Carbs/Protein/Fat that I have been given are 150g Carbs, 110g Protein, 100g Fat... much higher on all counts than I have eaten previously. I used to try eat 100g protein and much lower carbs and fat. I am still not really getting there - my carbs are higher with eating more fruit and veggies like sweet potatoes but I am not getting close on the fats - even with peanut butter and avocado...
And there are days like today where everything was off, I did n't get to really eat before I ran, then had to jump into meetings for work and ended up with breakfast at almost noon and no lunch... so my calories are way too low for the day and the macros while proportional are also of course too low.
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@shanaber sounds challenging! I feel for ya. I'm back and forth on the energy. I do fine for a bit (on cymbalta for nerve pain/antidepressant) and that helps. Then I don't take it and I'm down and so so tired. I did better on hormone supplements, the pellets. But I don't like messing with my hormones too much. They are out of whack though and I thought about birth control to help. But I'm 47, and I hate that pelvic exam.
So with any luck, like you, I can regain some energy through my diet. I'm inclined to think that much of it is menopause/natural changes coming on. I opted for coffee and a handful of multivitamins today rather than the tea.
I hope the 15 pounds comes off easily, which I'd think it would once you get lined out. I'm not awake.... I wanna say more but I can't think right now... Haha!0 -
@Elise4270 - Yes, the Mike and Ikes and Hot Tamales got me. The Hefeweizen was while I grilled the chicken for dinner. I think I am gonna shoot for 2400 calories / day, regardless of exercise. Also, try to be more mindful of sugar. @shanaber - if you need more fat, look at dairy - cheese, full fat yogurt, etc. It has a lot, but without some of the other stuff you may not want and it is nutrient dense.
Started of this morning ok. We'll see how the evening goes - son has a baseball game, which makes dinner tricky.2 -
@Elise4270 - those menopause changes are the worst but once you get through it, it gets better. It is just really miserable for a while and tough not to hurt someone2
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Well *kitten*! I had an entire post written and apparently MFP doesn't like the iOS emojis because it dropped off everything I typed from that point on
Guess only theirs are allowed here...
I will recreate when I can get to my computer....
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Confession - just scarfed a donut...it is my family's post-dentist tradition going back 30+ years. It was good! 3
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Ummm I thought it was ice cream... but that may just be because my eye doc was across the street from a Dairy Queen, and dentist was fairly close to it... and so both would write actual prescriptions for Dairy Queen that would get you a free ice cream......
Also, we learned the hard way I did not agree well with many dentist visit substances as a kid, and so it was agreed upon to not feed me prior to dental visits (you can use your imagination here) ..... so I generally needed something to eat after- and well sometimes ice cream/milkshakes are all you CAN eat by the time a dentist gets done with ya
Yesterday WAS national chocolate day- so my sins to confess involve some chocolate cookies at work
But I do like the idea of dietary accountability.... this may be huge for me since dang Doc gave me a running ban the other day. I run simply because I like food too much to believe I can lose weight/maintain weight with diet.... and now they took running off the table *sigh*1 -
@hanlonsk I'm on a no running restriction too, for another week. I've just cut back from 20-25mpw to less than 10. So hard. And I bought a mountain bike so I don't lose cardiovascular endurance in this heat. I've managed to keep my weight in check, unless my scale is pulling a big "fat" joke on me.
I'll confess that I haven't been eating great. I'm kinda holding out for my next doc visit. Then I can add running and more calories/better nutrition. And the pool should be back open in September, can't wait!
I had no cookies yesterday. Or chocolate. I did have Halo ice cream for dinner though. It's not real ice cream so it's only half a sin. 0 -
Yeah, I have been doing a LOT of weights training. And so far weight isn't getting too out of wack, although it could easily happen. And halo- well it has halo in the name - it CANT be a sin, right? It has as much protein as sugar, so I always claim I am eating it in the name of macronutrients.
And my running ban.... it's a bit more vague- was kinda a no running blanket statement- X-rays were normal- so, I responded with - ok so back to running and I'm just a wimp? And got "no, probable soft tissue injury, continue to rest for a while" to which I responded "ok, maybe I'm dumb but I think I need more specifics, and a bit more of plan sounding thing- like it's been 3 weeks, how long is a while.... at what point do we say ok not getting better need new plan.... and what constitutes rest? Like running is off the table- - but what about weights, walking lots, hiking biking etc.... like I have voluntarily cut a few things (like weighted lunges) that seem to hurt, and I figure if it hurts it's probably not conducive to whatever non planned plan we seem to be wanting me to telepathically follow.... but waiting for a response to my request for her to actually use words and be less vague and more plan like and more specific in rest definition....
....did I mention I don't like docs?1 -
See, my running has had pain associated with it- but I pushed past it and waited until after my half, so I wasn't running "against medical advice" for my half. But at apparently was long enough for the "good" ankle to end up with some Achilles issues- which actually is what convinced me to keep the appointment rather than decide I was over reacting. So, I understand her telling me to cease and desist. But it still needs to be in a way that isn't indefinite with no real next step. And I kinda suck at cycling. Which probably means I should do it more. I have done spinning some in the past when I needed the guided push and a break from high impact cardio for the day. But I will admit to hating every second of the spinning bit....I just know it's good for me. When I laid out specific questions as to "what all CAN I do" vs what constitutes rest, I actually separated out biking and spinning- because I consider them to be two different things in all reality.
But, back to the original topic. I've done fairly decent this weekend. I have chosen to omit alcohol consumption for a while. The boyfriend has been doing this for 2 months now, and calories needed cut somewhere in absence of my usual amount of cardio. So we are at 5 days alcohol free now. Which doesn't sound like a lot, but considering the current hotel I am at for my weekday work travel has two hours a night where alcohol is on offer for free.... it is a huge step for willpower to avoid their free alcohol and snacks. Even the weekend date/adventure with the boyfriend landed us at a fairly healthy food choice of a vegetarian restaurant. But, we ended up sharing what is possibly the most amazing carrot cake I have ever had, and I did end up grabbing a few fun sized mounds out of the freezer because it is all that sounded good for dinner last night. So, once I snug up willpower on alcohol consumption, I think sugar may be the next mountain to tackle.1 -
@hanlonsk - It might be time to seek a doctor who works with athletes. My PT has always been vague about when/how much I can run, but she's really good at giving me exercises that will help me get back to where I *can* run. Then she says stuff like, I can try but be ready to stop if I need to. I had to learn on my own what sensation meant "time to stop" versus "this is an okay stressor on the Achilles, for now." How did I learn? By making mistakes. Sigh.1
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@hanlonsk Yay! On the vegetarian dinner and giving up the alcoholic carbs! I didn't do the best this weekend. We were out of town for a run and that always means new food places to indulge at. I did have a salad today for lunch while resisting the German pancakes. I love butter, and any reason to eat it! I did just finish oh the last two buckwheat pancakes that DH couldn't finish. But least I spaced the gluttony out
Cycling is hard. But so is/was running the first few months of conditioning.0 -
Yeah @MobyCarp I am "trying" to be patient and coax some answers out, as Wyoming does not have a plethora of medical professionals. I know we have some specific orthopedic type docs. But I haven't even run across athlete focused ones here- and I know there has to be some in Colorado - and I should be more energetic to figure this out- but i haven't quite figured out where to start. But depending on the next set of answers, or lack there of- I may need to develop a plan B0
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@hanlonsk - I would ask your doctor for a sports doctor recommendation. Maybe she knows of someone... even if they aren't right where you are, it might be worth having the name in case you need it later even just for a consultation. I know @Elise4270 goes to Dallas to see her doctor but lives in Oklahoma. Even living in a metropolitan area (Anaheim) I end up driving quite a ways to see a sports chiropractor.
It was my anniversary this last weekend and I haven't run since last Wednesday when my daughter arrived to help us celebrate. We spent the weekend at a hotel at Disneyland (long story related to our wedding) and it was incredibly hot so no running, some walking and lots of snacking and fun eating. It was also our best friend's birthday and they were here too so it was just party time all around. By the time we got home yesterday I think all the rich food was getting to me so we just had salads for dinner. I also had agility class in the heat last night (85F still at 8:30pm) so I didn't want to eat much before I had to go run around for that. I did get up at 5:30 this morning so I could get out for a run and it was great - now I just have to get my eating back to normal and recover from the long weekend!
This pretty much says it all!
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