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I guess according to what other posters have stated, I would be a primal keto. I avoid processed foods, but love dairy, and can't imagine a world without it. Whole foods are very important to me, and the closer to the farm, the better. I haven't even made one 'fake bread' product since mid-Feb, and only ate about one every two weeks before that.
I am willing to go carnivore to get to the ultimate goal, but I'm going to IF before it gets to that point. I like my greens and berries too much to walk away for life.0 -
I am willing to go carnivore to get to the ultimate goal, but I'm going to IF before it gets to that point. I like my greens and berries too much to walk away for life.
As the resident carnivore, I obviously think it's a fantastic way to live. But, I doubt it's a necessary step for success to your ultimate goal. The most important step is always patience. I don't think going carnivore will speed anything up, for most people.0 -
Dan I've seen Dr. Attia and some others refer to <50g carbs as "Nutritional Ketosis".
I agree with that. Water fasting, after 8 hours, usually will land you into ketosis. But if you eat less than 50 carbs, the body burns the carbs off first and you're in "nutritional fast" which = ketosis.
I eased into ketosis by starting at 100 g @day, then as I learned how it worked, I shot for 20 and water fasting. I never got the Keto flu, probably because I slowly worked my way into it and that I love salt and ate a lot of in anyway.
Now my carbs are 20 - 40 @ day. I call 40 a bad day and less than 20 a good day (not too often).
To be sure, ketosis is easy, getting Keto adapted is the ultimate goal and is harder because it takes 2-6 weeks of consistently lower than 50 g @ day. A person can't "cheat"....the body can't be fooled. Its not a "casual" diet, meaning you can't break the rules and say, "Oh, it'll be OK".
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet
LCHF is the XXXX (A funny animated explantion of the Keto WOE)
I would say I'm just general keto, started January 2 but had a few weeks of pizza multiple times per week in February.
When you say Keto adapted, what exactly does that mean? I am a marathon runner. I've decided no full marathons in 2015 while I focus on losing the last of the weight I gained in 2012. The problem is, my half marathon times have been about 2-3 minutes per mile slower than last Spring even though I'm carrying less weight. I have more general energy throughout the day (don't get the mid-afternoon slump at work), but I don't seem to be able to perform in races.0 -
rungirl1973 wrote: »
I would say I'm just general keto, started January 2 but had a few weeks of pizza multiple times per week in February.
When you say Keto adapted, what exactly does that mean? I am a marathon runner. I've decided no full marathons in 2015 while I focus on losing the last of the weight I gained in 2012. The problem is, my half marathon times have been about 2-3 minutes per mile slower than last Spring even though I'm carrying less weight. I have more general energy throughout the day (don't get the mid-afternoon slump at work), but I don't seem to be able to perform in races.
Keto Adapted means your body has adjusted to its new source of energy (fatty acids or Ketones). The adjustment includes hormonal adjustment & enzymes that make your body more efficiently use the new source of energy.
Your problems with track performance is well documented and since I'm not an "exercise guy" I haven't looked into it. But there are whole books (Phinney & Volek), YouTube channels, Blogs & websites dedicated to high performance athletics & the Keto diet. And there are probably people here on LCD that help you with that. (Kirkor?)
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto Abbreviations, Acronyms & Terminology Used in LCD & Keto Discussion Groups
Previous Discussions (lots of easy Keto recipes and other useful Keto info)
Blog #11 Really Good Keto Websites
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@DittoDan : I have now moved from Keto to Carnivore Keto. My metabolism is so whack from years of unhealthy eating that I'm just super sensitive to carbohydrates. This really simplifies things for me.0
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Hmm, we're getting quite a few carnivores around these parts. I'm starting to not be "the crazy one". I might need a new shtick.
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@DittoDan : I have now moved from Keto to Carnivore Keto. My metabolism is so whack from years of unhealthy eating that I'm just super sensitive to carbohydrates. This really simplifies things for me.
Moonius, how do you know that your metabolism is out of whack, that you're so sensitive. Does a small amount of carbs take you out of ketosis? I'm not challenging, I'm inquiring.
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rungirl1973 wrote: »I would say I'm just general keto, started January 2 but had a few weeks of pizza multiple times per week in February.
When you say Keto adapted, what exactly does that mean? I am a marathon runner. I've decided no full marathons in 2015 while I focus on losing the last of the weight I gained in 2012. The problem is, my half marathon times have been about 2-3 minutes per mile slower than last Spring even though I'm carrying less weight. I have more general energy throughout the day (don't get the mid-afternoon slump at work), but I don't seem to be able to perform in races.
I'm also a runner & cyclist. I find that I can run and bike at easy/moderate paces, just fine, but I'm not really any faster, either, in spite of dropping at least 16# (more than 10# of my body weight). I've read Phinney/Volek and do believe that Keto can be very viable for some endurance athletes -- and I've tried long-term keto endurance in the past, but I find as soon as I have to go into redline zones (say, during a cyclocross race --which is pretty much 5k effort the entire way with sprint effort intervals-- or getting a bike up a particularly long/steep hill during a race) that not only do I have no gas, but I get instantly nauseous, which is a serious race killer until my stomach settles. Really not conducive at all to races or intense training efforts.
Something else I have found is that the runners I know who have done Keto endurance racing and training don't seem able to stick with it long-term, in spite of best efforts. A friend of mine was Keto for a year or two, but was struggling with it during ultra races and ended up reverting to a more CKD diet. She did suggest that perhaps men have an easier time remaining Keto for high endurance stuff than females, which surprised me, since we carry more natural body fat. I suspect there may be a hormonal component that is not yet well understood.
There is also a Keto Endurance group here that has been a ghost town for a very long time. I wish everyone would come back and at least detail their experiences and whether or not they're still making long-term Keto work for them.
Soon I will be transitioning from Keto to a variation on CKD, myself. My plan is to stay Keto and weight-loss calorie deficit on my easier training days and reserve my hardest 1-2 days/week and race days to eat a more SAD without calorie deficit. By this point I'll only be ~10#s from my goal weight, too. I recently started an endurance carb-cycling group to share experience and knowledge. It's pretty quiet, in large part because there's no useful way to search for groups on MFP, unfortunately.
I read somewhere (and, of course, can't re-locate it) that originally a CKD type diet was used specifically for runners to maximize fuel storage and efficiency for training vs. racing, but at some point bodybuilders adapted it and became the community most associated with CKD, in spite of them not having first utilized it.0 -
rungirl1973 wrote: »I would say I'm just general keto, started January 2 but had a few weeks of pizza multiple times per week in February.
When you say Keto adapted, what exactly does that mean? I am a marathon runner. I've decided no full marathons in 2015 while I focus on losing the last of the weight I gained in 2012. The problem is, my half marathon times have been about 2-3 minutes per mile slower than last Spring even though I'm carrying less weight. I have more general energy throughout the day (don't get the mid-afternoon slump at work), but I don't seem to be able to perform in races.
I'm also a runner & cyclist. I find that I can run and bike at easy/moderate paces, just fine, but I'm not really any faster, either, in spite of dropping at least 16# (more than 10# of my body weight). I've read Phinney/Volek and do believe that Keto can be very viable for some endurance athletes -- and I've tried long-term keto endurance in the past, but I find as soon as I have to go into redline zones (say, during a cyclocross race --which is pretty much 5k effort the entire way with sprint effort intervals-- or getting a bike up a particularly long/steep hill during a race) that not only do I have no gas, but I get instantly nauseous, which is a serious race killer until my stomach settles. Really not conducive at all to races or intense training efforts.
Something else I have found is that the runners I know who have done Keto endurance racing and training don't seem able to stick with it long-term, in spite of best efforts. A friend of mine was Keto for a year or two, but was struggling with it during ultra races and ended up reverting to a more CKD diet. She did suggest that perhaps men have an easier time remaining Keto for high endurance stuff than females, which surprised me, since we carry more natural body fat. I suspect there may be a hormonal component that is not yet well understood.
There is also a Keto Endurance group here that has been a ghost town for a very long time. I wish everyone would come back and at least detail their experiences and whether or not they're still making long-term Keto work for them.
Soon I will be transitioning from Keto to a variation on CKD, myself. My plan is to stay Keto and weight-loss calorie deficit on my easier training days and reserve my hardest 1-2 days/week and race days to eat a more SAD without calorie deficit. By this point I'll only be ~10#s from my goal weight, too. I recently started an endurance carb-cycling group to share experience and knowledge. It's pretty quiet, in large part because there's no useful way to search for groups on MFP, unfortunately.
I read somewhere (and, of course, can't re-locate it) that originally a CKD type diet was used specifically for runners to maximize fuel storage and efficiency for training vs. racing, but at some point bodybuilders adapted it and became the community most associated with CKD, in spite of them not having first utilized it.
Interesting. Thanks for your response. I have been thinking that I would do something similar when I get closer to my goal weight. I just didn't know there was a name for CKD until today.
My intent is to concentrate on weight loss in 2015 and start 2016 racing season with the Dopey Challenge at WDW. It is frustrating to be so much slower in races, but I can suck it up until I lose another 20 lbs or so.
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rungirl1973 wrote: »My intent is to concentrate on weight loss in 2015 and start 2016 racing season with the Dopey Challenge at WDW. It is frustrating to be so much slower in races, but I can suck it up until I lose another 20 lbs or so.
That's kind of what I'm doing for 2015, too. I don't think my last 10#s will come off fast (they never have, before), so 2015 will likely not see any PRs. I'd just like to hit paces similar to last year in the same events. By next year I should be holding steady at my goal weight and not training with calorie deficits. That will hopefully make for some improved times. I scaled-back some in my training miles and effort this Winter, so I won't expect to really build my fitness back up until later this Summer, anyhow...which is when I'm guessing I'll reach my weight loss goal, too.
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@gsp90x : One of the things I have learned about this way of eating is that you must find what works for your body. I have struggled with high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes for years. At one point I weighed almost 400 pounds. The more I lower my carbs, the better control I have of my insulin and HBP. Since last year I was trying to keep my carbs under 50 g daily but I found that my body responded better as I lowered my carbs to "induction" levels (20 g) daily. Now I'm at about 5 g daily and my weight loss is no longer stalled and my diabetes and HBP are in check. Eating VLC keeps me in ketosis. You must find what works for your body.0
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@gsp90x : One of the things I have learned about this way of eating is that you must find what works for your body. I have struggled with high blood pressure and type 2 diabetes for years. At one point I weighed almost 400 pounds. The more I lower my carbs, the better control I have of my insulin and HBP. Since last year I was trying to keep my carbs under 50 g daily but I found that my body responded better as I lowered my carbs to "induction" levels (20 g) daily. Now I'm at about 5 g daily and my weight loss is no longer stalled and my diabetes and HBP are in check. Eating VLC keeps me in ketosis. You must find what works for your body.
Thanks moonius! I've been aiming for 15g net carbs a day and I'm very often under that. I'm pretty new (3wks) so I don't think I'm ready to experiment with how high I can take them
If it ain't broke... ye know? I feel more stable than ever before but I still have a dopey, tired feeling all the time. (Had pre keto too). And NO I don't think I AM just dopey and tired because there are (seemingly) random days where I feel like a million bucks and ooooo baby to I get stuff done! Gotta make hay while the sun shines!
Thanks for sharing! So encouraging.0 -
Interesting article. Three reasons why zero carb is easier than low carb
myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/02/three-reasons-zero-carb-easier-low-carb/0 -
How about Pescatarian Keto (eats no animal flesh but fish and includes eggs & dairy) or Octo Vegetarian Keto (as above but without the fish).0
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LesleyJDee wrote: »How about Pescatarian Keto (eats no animal flesh but fish and includes eggs & dairy) or Octo Vegetarian Keto (as above but without the fish).
Octo? Do you mean Ovo?
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I've just read the whole site - thank you Moonius, that was a great link!Interesting article. Three reasons why zero carb is easier than low carb
myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/02/three-reasons-zero-carb-easier-low-carb/
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@GrannyMayOz : You are welcome! Glad to help.0
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Interesting article. Three reasons why zero carb is easier than low carb
myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/02/three-reasons-zero-carb-easier-low-carb/
I think Kelly's story is great and I have read several of her blog posts. She did in fact lose 120 lbs. on low carb, but then moved to zero carb in maintenance. I may end up like her. I'm not ready to do zero carb mentally yet, but I think it is a great WOE.0 -
@Mistizoom : My story is similar to Kelly's. I went low carb in 2008 and just recently went to 5 g or less daily. Zero carb is really a misnomer because there are a small amount of carbs in eggs and dairy products. But the key for me is to eat as few carbs as possible every day. It's certainly an easier way to live as far as cooking goes and I have no more weight loss stalls eating this way.0
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