Maybe We Should Have A Meat-Only May Challenge?
Dragonwolf
Posts: 5,600 Member
I'm seeing quite a bit more interest in the "no-plant" or "zero carb" diet in the past few weeks. Perhaps we should have a "challenge" thing for it in May?
It'd probably be good to run it a little differently than most other challenges -- don't go in on it unless you were already at least somewhat seriously considering it. This would be more for those who are already considering trying it to band together and give it a one-month trial. Could still do check-ins and whatnot, and don't just go by weight, but report on how you feel (even TMI type stuff, if you're willing to share).
I know it's a bit early, but I figured I'd toss it out there and we could work on the rules/guidelines or whatever, since this one probably needs a little more careful planning to help everyone succeed (I'll defer to the more experienced carnivores on that front).
It'd probably be good to run it a little differently than most other challenges -- don't go in on it unless you were already at least somewhat seriously considering it. This would be more for those who are already considering trying it to band together and give it a one-month trial. Could still do check-ins and whatnot, and don't just go by weight, but report on how you feel (even TMI type stuff, if you're willing to share).
I know it's a bit early, but I figured I'd toss it out there and we could work on the rules/guidelines or whatever, since this one probably needs a little more careful planning to help everyone succeed (I'll defer to the more experienced carnivores on that front).
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I'd be willing to give it a go!0
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Hmmmm...possibly. I can't/won't give up my BPC or dairy, but I could make the other two meals of my day plant-free.0
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I've been leaning more and more towards going zero carb - it just seems so much easier and less to think about. I've let artificial sweeteners creep in and that has led to some carb cravings (which I've satisfied with "keto treats" but it's a bad habit and a slippery slope I think); I eat very minimal carbs otherwise. I think I'm going to finish up all of the veg/non-animal products I currently have on hand and give it a go.0
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what about egg? its a baby chicken. chicken is meat.0
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If you can find a way to classify chocolate as meat, I'm in.
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So is it a meat only? or just a as close to zero carb as you can? or a no veggie?
Meat only is one thing, but giving up heavy cream, cheese, cream cheese, eggs, etc would be rough for me personally. I am NOT @FIT_Goat and cant do meat 24/7/365.
Giving up AF and getting as close to zero carb without veggies might be doable. Maybe.
I guess it depends on which type of challenge it is.0 -
So is it a meat only? or just a as close to zero carb as you can? or a no veggie?
Meat only is one thing, but giving up heavy cream, cheese, cream cheese, eggs, etc would be rough for me personally. I am NOT @FIT_Goat and cant do meat 24/7/365.
Giving up AF and getting as close to zero carb without veggies might be doable. Maybe.
I guess it depends on which type of challenge it is.
I was thinking the "no plants" way, so if it comes from or is an animal, it's fair game (at least for the most part; I wouldn't think regular milk would be, given the carb content). So yes, eggs would be in, as would butter, cream, and cheese.
I was trying to come up with a catchy challenge name, but apparently missed the mark a bit.
Also hoping Goat will chime in on some more of the execution details/advice on this front.0 -
I posted this in the other thread. Reasonable guidelines:
http://www.empiri.ca/p/eat-meat-not-too-little-mostly-fat.html
FAQ
Q. Do I need to eat organ meats?
A. No.
Q. Do I need to eat raw meat?
A. No.
Q. Can I have sauces and spices?
A. Avoid any sauce with sugar, such as ketchup or commercial dressings. Salt is advised. Minimise spices — they confuse your palate, and many report that they eat more than hunger would dictate if their food is heavily spiced. Do not trust any sauce from a restaurant. Pour the drippings back on — that's the best sauce.
Q. Is bacon okay?
A. Yes. You can eat as much bacon as you like during this experiment.
Q. What about salamis and cheeses?
A. Better save those til after the initial 30-day experiment. Some people who are trying to lose excess body fat with diet report that eating a little cheese stops their fat loss even though the cheese has very little carbohydrate content. Also, many people have reported that cheese and processed meats are “gateway drugs” that seem to stimulate cravings for carbohydrates.
Q. How about coffee?
A. Yes, you can drink coffee. No sweetener of any kind! A little heavy cream in it is probably okay for most people, but may or may not be okay for you.
Q. Do I need to exercise?
A. No, you don't need to. You can if you want, and if you do so during the first few days, it might shorten the duration of the keto-adaptation period. But exercising isn't necessary to get the benefits of the all-meat diet experiment, so consider it optional. In fact, if you are very overweight, exercise can be dangerous, because of the added stress to your joints.
Q. If I'm doing intense exercise, do I need to eat carbs?
A. No, you can do intense physical exercise, even things like competitive running, and weight lifting while on a ketogenic diet. More and more people are doing that nowadays. The old idea that hard exercise requires eating carbohydrate turns out to be not exactly true. There are a lot of details that go into that, of course, which we don't go into here. The only exercise regimens we know of which may not be sustainable on a ketogenic diet are those that involve high intensity interval training on a daily basis.
Q. Is this diet unsafe or unhealthy?
A. No. There are many claims being made that a diet like this one can be bad for your health in various ways, but every such claim that we have investigated has turned out to be a myth. Please see our science blog (The Ketogenic Diet for Health), and in particular the Myths section of it, for why we say that.0 -
this is day 2 for me on ZC (LOL~yeah that's pretty new) but I am definitely in!!0
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i would be in! i already started. it's so simple and straightforward - eat meat, drink water.
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I would be constipated and broke. But I look forward to reading about others doing it :-).0
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Dragonwolf wrote: »So is it a meat only? or just a as close to zero carb as you can? or a no veggie?
Meat only is one thing, but giving up heavy cream, cheese, cream cheese, eggs, etc would be rough for me personally. I am NOT @FIT_Goat and cant do meat 24/7/365.
Giving up AF and getting as close to zero carb without veggies might be doable. Maybe.
I guess it depends on which type of challenge it is.
I was thinking the "no plants" way, so if it comes from or is an animal, it's fair game (at least for the most part; I wouldn't think regular milk would be, given the carb content). So yes, eggs would be in, as would butter, cream, and cheese.
I was trying to come up with a catchy challenge name, but apparently missed the mark a bit.
Also hoping Goat will chime in on some more of the execution details/advice on this front.
Hmm starting in May? I might think about it then.
The thought of meat only makes my stomach turn. I tolerate meat but love veggies and dairy products.
But maybe I could do a really high fat, and whatever protein amount I could stomach and no veggies....Lots of fat bombs maybe.0 -
I like the sound of this, I'm not a big fruit or veg fan and don't typically eat much of them anyway so it'd be pretty easy
I'd love to see if this helped me lose weight better and finally curb the cravings and see if it had any health benefits for myself.
I don't know if I could cut out milk, I drink tea a lot, cream is good in coffee but I can't stand it in tea.0 -
"Meativore May"0
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I'll respond to this in more detail tonight. I am still at work, almost ready to leave.
I do love the empirica's simplicity, but watching others has taught me that some of the things listed aren't stuff that I would worry about personally.
Oddly enough, my personal diet is very close to that outline. Still, It will take more than a couple statements to outline how "I" would approach it for the first time for most people. Soon. Let me go home and get some steak in my belly. LOL0 -
I have been wanting to try this! I know of one weekend where I will probably have trouble (grandfather's 100th birthday party out of town - our plan was to bring @itcphotog 's bagels as a backup option to any meal), but I will do my best!0
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1. Eat only from the animal kingdom. This includes eggs, dairy, etc.
2. Meals should be based around a meat or eggs. Having some cheese on a burger is fine, eating cheese by itself as a snack is not. Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
3. Nothing from the plant kingdom. Spices don't count as they are not food (no spices with sugar, starches, etc. -- check the label, you'll be surprised). Plant oils are not food and should be avoided (although, if a little commercial mayo in egg salad is going to make this doable, then have it).
4. No artificial sweeteners and no "fake foods" (that is, no oopsie-bread or similar abominations).
5. Water, coffee, tea are the beverage options. Seltzer and unsweetened sparkling waters are fine (check... some of the flavored ones have sweetener, others don't).
I realize that all the ingredients in something like oopsie bread (eggs, cream cheese, and salt) are perfectly acceptable when eating like this (the cream cheese for sauces), but these are the sorts of things that push it. Actually, all of the things I mention tend to be the things that keep you from pushing it. Heavy cream, cheese, and such foods have carbs, but not enough to worry about when they're not the main component of the food.
You don't need supplements on this diet, so long as you're not trying to live on only canned meats. If you're eating fresh or frozen meat, you'll be fine. You don't need fiber. You won't get constipated. You might see a temporary slow-down or stop at the start. This is not constipation unless accompanied by discomfort, a feeling like you need to go, and an inability to actually go. Just not pooping for a couple days is not the same as needing to go and being unable. A lot of people freak out about this. You're going to have less total volume (fiber and vegetable add a lot of bulk). It will move on its own as long as you're eating enough fat and drinking enough water.
I would recommend not counting calories, but that's a separate issue. I do encourage people to not force eating when they're not hungry. If you really don't want meat, then don't eat. If you are "hungry" but can't bring yourself to eat meat, you're not really hungry. Don't give up and eat something else. Wait. You'll get hungry enough that meat looks awesome. I would encourage people to eat as much as their body asks for. It is really hard to over-eat consistently with a focus on meat. Don't stress too much about the protein or fat ratios. If you try and limit protein and artificially push up fats (beyond the amount you crave), you're going to have a bad time.
I think that's mostly it. Might add more later. Of course, this is how I would recommend it be done. If we want, we could do it differently for the month. I wouldn't ban eggs or cheese. I also wouldn't disallow processed meats (so long as they are devoid of fillers and sugar, Boars Head meats are mostly safe ones in this respect but a lot are not).0 -
Although I know this would not be a forever WOE for me (I like my variety and coconut in my fat bombs) I would also be up for the challenge. I've been on the April challenge and haven't noticed any changes at all really so.... This would actually be a challenge and maybe I'd stop having cheese for supper! THEN I might see some changes. Ah, shoot.... except my birthday is in May. Well... I'll have to see what I'll do about that. 0
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This is very tempting, might give it a try. My birthday and my daughter's birthday are both in May......we could go to a local Mexican place that serves grass fed beef and pastured pork, hit the buffet and just eat the meat... Mother's day brunch is probably doable too......ham and cheese omelette with bacon, smoked salmon, shrimp, mussels, roast beef....but alas, no strawberries dipped in the chocolate fountain...0
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1. Eat only from the animal kingdom. This includes eggs, dairy, etc.
2. Meals should be based around a meat or eggs. Having some cheese on a burger is fine, eating cheese by itself as a snack is not. Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
3. Nothing from the plant kingdom. Spices don't count as they are not food (no spices with sugar, starches, etc. -- check the label, you'll be surprised). Plant oils are not food and should be avoided (although, if a little commercial mayo in egg salad is going to make this doable, then have it).
4. No artificial sweeteners and no "fake foods" (that is, no oopsie-bread or similar abominations).
5. Water, coffee, tea are the beverage options. Seltzer and unsweetened sparkling waters are fine (check... some of the flavored ones have sweetener, others don't).
I realize that all the ingredients in something like oopsie bread (eggs, cream cheese, and salt) are perfectly acceptable when eating like this (the cream cheese for sauces), but these are the sorts of things that push it. Actually, all of the things I mention tend to be the things that keep you from pushing it. Heavy cream, cheese, and such foods have carbs, but not enough to worry about when they're not the main component of the food.
You don't need supplements on this diet, so long as you're not trying to live on only canned meats. If you're eating fresh or frozen meat, you'll be fine. You don't need fiber. You won't get constipated. You might see a temporary slow-down or stop at the start. This is not constipation unless accompanied by discomfort, a feeling like you need to go, and an inability to actually go. Just not pooping for a couple days is not the same as needing to go and being unable. A lot of people freak out about this. You're going to have less total volume (fiber and vegetable add a lot of bulk). It will move on its own as long as you're eating enough fat and drinking enough water.
I would recommend not counting calories, but that's a separate issue. I do encourage people to not force eating when they're not hungry. If you really don't want meat, then don't eat. If you are "hungry" but can't bring yourself to eat meat, you're not really hungry. Don't give up and eat something else. Wait. You'll get hungry enough that meat looks awesome. I would encourage people to eat as much as their body asks for. It is really hard to over-eat consistently with a focus on meat. Don't stress too much about the protein or fat ratios. If you try and limit protein and artificially push up fats (beyond the amount you crave), you're going to have a bad time.
I think that's mostly it. Might add more later. Of course, this is how I would recommend it be done. If we want, we could do it differently for the month. I wouldn't ban eggs or cheese. I also wouldn't disallow processed meats (so long as they are devoid of fillers and sugar, Boars Head meats are mostly safe ones in this respect but a lot are not).
Thank you for all this information!!
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1. Eat only from the animal kingdom. This includes eggs, dairy, etc.
2. Meals should be based around a meat or eggs. Having some cheese on a burger is fine, eating cheese by itself as a snack is not. Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
3. Nothing from the plant kingdom. Spices don't count as they are not food (no spices with sugar, starches, etc. -- check the label, you'll be surprised). Plant oils are not food and should be avoided (although, if a little commercial mayo in egg salad is going to make this doable, then have it).
4. No artificial sweeteners and no "fake foods" (that is, no oopsie-bread or similar abominations).
5. Water, coffee, tea are the beverage options. Seltzer and unsweetened sparkling waters are fine (check... some of the flavored ones have sweetener, others don't).
I realize that all the ingredients in something like oopsie bread (eggs, cream cheese, and salt) are perfectly acceptable when eating like this (the cream cheese for sauces), but these are the sorts of things that push it. Actually, all of the things I mention tend to be the things that keep you from pushing it. Heavy cream, cheese, and such foods have carbs, but not enough to worry about when they're not the main component of the food.
You don't need supplements on this diet, so long as you're not trying to live on only canned meats. If you're eating fresh or frozen meat, you'll be fine. You don't need fiber. You won't get constipated. You might see a temporary slow-down or stop at the start. This is not constipation unless accompanied by discomfort, a feeling like you need to go, and an inability to actually go. Just not pooping for a couple days is not the same as needing to go and being unable. A lot of people freak out about this. You're going to have less total volume (fiber and vegetable add a lot of bulk). It will move on its own as long as you're eating enough fat and drinking enough water.
I would recommend not counting calories, but that's a separate issue. I do encourage people to not force eating when they're not hungry. If you really don't want meat, then don't eat. If you are "hungry" but can't bring yourself to eat meat, you're not really hungry. Don't give up and eat something else. Wait. You'll get hungry enough that meat looks awesome. I would encourage people to eat as much as their body asks for. It is really hard to over-eat consistently with a focus on meat. Don't stress too much about the protein or fat ratios. If you try and limit protein and artificially push up fats (beyond the amount you crave), you're going to have a bad time.
I think that's mostly it. Might add more later. Of course, this is how I would recommend it be done. If we want, we could do it differently for the month. I wouldn't ban eggs or cheese. I also wouldn't disallow processed meats (so long as they are devoid of fillers and sugar, Boars Head meats are mostly safe ones in this respect but a lot are not).
And this is why I asked Goat for his input. 0 -
Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?0 -
octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
Lol, that's how I am with this whole topic. I normally don't really have much interest in eating vegetables and won't go out of my way to get them (though I often get a salad when eating out), but as soon as I start looking at/talking about the "zero carb" thing, I immediately start craving a giant salad. I'm just like "WTF?"
The funny part is, I'm like 80-90% of the way there, already, on my normal days. I tend to snack on cheese, too, and giving up my mayo will be a bit difficult, but maybe I'll get off my butt and render the pork fat I have in my freezer and try a batch with lard, or maybe try butter. Hrm... (Hubby's been experimenting with a charcoal grill, and it sometimes makes the food kind of dry, I need something to not feel like I'm eating shoe leather!)0 -
I decided to start using the event feature and added an event to the calendar for it. If we change/update the rules/goals/guidelines, I'll update it accordingly. Feel free to RSVP if you want.0
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octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.0 -
octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
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Ah, yes, we care about that reaction to the cheese. And we like coffee enough, so that sounds like the perfect remedy just in case!0
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baconslave wrote: »octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
That could work. Sounds a lot like measuring to me, lol. But, it would amount to the same thing.0
This discussion has been closed.