Maybe We Should Have A Meat-Only May Challenge?
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This is very tempting, might give it a try. My birthday and my daughter's birthday are both in May......we could go to a local Mexican place that serves grass fed beef and pastured pork, hit the buffet and just eat the meat... Mother's day brunch is probably doable too......ham and cheese omelette with bacon, smoked salmon, shrimp, mussels, roast beef....but alas, no strawberries dipped in the chocolate fountain...0
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1. Eat only from the animal kingdom. This includes eggs, dairy, etc.
2. Meals should be based around a meat or eggs. Having some cheese on a burger is fine, eating cheese by itself as a snack is not. Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
3. Nothing from the plant kingdom. Spices don't count as they are not food (no spices with sugar, starches, etc. -- check the label, you'll be surprised). Plant oils are not food and should be avoided (although, if a little commercial mayo in egg salad is going to make this doable, then have it).
4. No artificial sweeteners and no "fake foods" (that is, no oopsie-bread or similar abominations).
5. Water, coffee, tea are the beverage options. Seltzer and unsweetened sparkling waters are fine (check... some of the flavored ones have sweetener, others don't).
I realize that all the ingredients in something like oopsie bread (eggs, cream cheese, and salt) are perfectly acceptable when eating like this (the cream cheese for sauces), but these are the sorts of things that push it. Actually, all of the things I mention tend to be the things that keep you from pushing it. Heavy cream, cheese, and such foods have carbs, but not enough to worry about when they're not the main component of the food.
You don't need supplements on this diet, so long as you're not trying to live on only canned meats. If you're eating fresh or frozen meat, you'll be fine. You don't need fiber. You won't get constipated. You might see a temporary slow-down or stop at the start. This is not constipation unless accompanied by discomfort, a feeling like you need to go, and an inability to actually go. Just not pooping for a couple days is not the same as needing to go and being unable. A lot of people freak out about this. You're going to have less total volume (fiber and vegetable add a lot of bulk). It will move on its own as long as you're eating enough fat and drinking enough water.
I would recommend not counting calories, but that's a separate issue. I do encourage people to not force eating when they're not hungry. If you really don't want meat, then don't eat. If you are "hungry" but can't bring yourself to eat meat, you're not really hungry. Don't give up and eat something else. Wait. You'll get hungry enough that meat looks awesome. I would encourage people to eat as much as their body asks for. It is really hard to over-eat consistently with a focus on meat. Don't stress too much about the protein or fat ratios. If you try and limit protein and artificially push up fats (beyond the amount you crave), you're going to have a bad time.
I think that's mostly it. Might add more later. Of course, this is how I would recommend it be done. If we want, we could do it differently for the month. I wouldn't ban eggs or cheese. I also wouldn't disallow processed meats (so long as they are devoid of fillers and sugar, Boars Head meats are mostly safe ones in this respect but a lot are not).
Thank you for all this information!!
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1. Eat only from the animal kingdom. This includes eggs, dairy, etc.
2. Meals should be based around a meat or eggs. Having some cheese on a burger is fine, eating cheese by itself as a snack is not. Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
3. Nothing from the plant kingdom. Spices don't count as they are not food (no spices with sugar, starches, etc. -- check the label, you'll be surprised). Plant oils are not food and should be avoided (although, if a little commercial mayo in egg salad is going to make this doable, then have it).
4. No artificial sweeteners and no "fake foods" (that is, no oopsie-bread or similar abominations).
5. Water, coffee, tea are the beverage options. Seltzer and unsweetened sparkling waters are fine (check... some of the flavored ones have sweetener, others don't).
I realize that all the ingredients in something like oopsie bread (eggs, cream cheese, and salt) are perfectly acceptable when eating like this (the cream cheese for sauces), but these are the sorts of things that push it. Actually, all of the things I mention tend to be the things that keep you from pushing it. Heavy cream, cheese, and such foods have carbs, but not enough to worry about when they're not the main component of the food.
You don't need supplements on this diet, so long as you're not trying to live on only canned meats. If you're eating fresh or frozen meat, you'll be fine. You don't need fiber. You won't get constipated. You might see a temporary slow-down or stop at the start. This is not constipation unless accompanied by discomfort, a feeling like you need to go, and an inability to actually go. Just not pooping for a couple days is not the same as needing to go and being unable. A lot of people freak out about this. You're going to have less total volume (fiber and vegetable add a lot of bulk). It will move on its own as long as you're eating enough fat and drinking enough water.
I would recommend not counting calories, but that's a separate issue. I do encourage people to not force eating when they're not hungry. If you really don't want meat, then don't eat. If you are "hungry" but can't bring yourself to eat meat, you're not really hungry. Don't give up and eat something else. Wait. You'll get hungry enough that meat looks awesome. I would encourage people to eat as much as their body asks for. It is really hard to over-eat consistently with a focus on meat. Don't stress too much about the protein or fat ratios. If you try and limit protein and artificially push up fats (beyond the amount you crave), you're going to have a bad time.
I think that's mostly it. Might add more later. Of course, this is how I would recommend it be done. If we want, we could do it differently for the month. I wouldn't ban eggs or cheese. I also wouldn't disallow processed meats (so long as they are devoid of fillers and sugar, Boars Head meats are mostly safe ones in this respect but a lot are not).
And this is why I asked Goat for his input.
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Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?0 -
octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
Lol, that's how I am with this whole topic. I normally don't really have much interest in eating vegetables and won't go out of my way to get them (though I often get a salad when eating out), but as soon as I start looking at/talking about the "zero carb" thing, I immediately start craving a giant salad. I'm just like "WTF?"
The funny part is, I'm like 80-90% of the way there, already, on my normal days. I tend to snack on cheese, too, and giving up my mayo will be a bit difficult, but maybe I'll get off my butt and render the pork fat I have in my freezer and try a batch with lard, or maybe try butter. Hrm... (Hubby's been experimenting with a charcoal grill, and it sometimes makes the food kind of dry, I need something to not feel like I'm eating shoe leather!)0 -
I decided to start using the event feature and added an event to the calendar for it. If we change/update the rules/goals/guidelines, I'll update it accordingly. Feel free to RSVP if you want.0
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octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.0 -
octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
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Ah, yes, we care about that reaction to the cheese. And we like coffee enough, so that sounds like the perfect remedy just in case!0
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baconslave wrote: »octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
That could work. Sounds a lot like measuring to me, lol. But, it would amount to the same thing.0 -
I don't think we need to worry that much about the cheese thing. Just have a sort of "use your head. Don't go overboard on it, and if you get constipated, back off the cheese."
Personally, I practically live on cheese. It's my go-to snack when I need one, and I put it on just about everything (eggs? Topped with cheese, sometimes have it in it; burgers? Of course. Salad? Must have cheese on it). I think as long as you're usually pairing it with a non-cheese item, and that non-cheese item is at least the same size as the cheese, you should be okay. In my experience, at least, a piece of cheese on its own as a snack doesn't make a difference in the plumbing department, but then, I haven't gone ZC yet, so that may make a difference.
So how about this? "Pair cheese with meat in most cases."
Hehe...instead of "one cannot live on bread alone," it's "one cannot live on cheese alone." 0 -
So it's meat, cheese, eggs, coffee, and cream? I see chocolate in your future. 0
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I've RSVP'd with a maybe. Often I eat whole days zc but I'm a little scared to jump in mouth first with a total commitment.
Not because I think it's wrong just because of social pressure, 6 family birthdays in May! (2 are my kids) not sure I'll be able to go 100%, but I'm working on my brain and trying to plan it out..0 -
Good luck to you all. Sounds fun but I love my veggies. I'm sticking with low carb (-50 is all I can manage now) but I'll be watching y'all.0
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Siberianmomma wrote: »Good luck to you all. Sounds fun but I love my veggies. I'm sticking with low carb (-50 is all I can manage now) but I'll be watching y'all.
Same here. I have to bow out. I love veggies and have such texture issues with meat, it isnt worth starving myself or throwing up over the texture of meat just to eat meat. I dont agree that if you'll hungry enough you'll eat meat unless you've been without food for a few days or weeks maybe. MEat flavor is ok most of the time, can dress it up a little but I cant use most mixed spices but the texture? ugh. I gag often when I eat it, same with bananas that arent green, cant swallow it. Shrimp? like eating someones finger muscle. Id pick peas over meat any day of the week.
Texture, it is so important. Id seriously be a vegetarian 90% of the time if i didnt have to eat Keto for health reasons.
But I am glad that there is this group and lots of people willing to try new things and think outside the box when it comes to their eating habits and their health. I love to see all the stories and ideas out there, even if i cant follow along as much as I wish I could.0 -
I would be out on this one, but would watch with interest. I did a similar experiment last year while trying to figure out what I thought were digestive issues and was completely miserable and quit a week before I intended. Digestive issue since resolved, so I'll leave this to ya'll!0
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baconslave wrote: »octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
That could work. Sounds a lot like measuring to me, lol. But, it would amount to the same thing.
Well it is a little bit of measuring. But so is making sure you aren't eating a whole bowl of cream, technically. Are we scrambling on a slippery slope now?
If you all are allowing animal products like dairy, then they'll have to be some limitation of some variety. Because they do have carbs.
If people learn to eyeball it first (I've gotten really good at eyeballing about an oz.), and try not to eat it more than 3 times a day, I figure that should suffice. Or even just making sure to remember that cheese isn't the main course, but a garnish or a small snack. I don't eat cheese with meat on it. I eat meat with cheese on it. That's how I'm treating it. I don't really measure farther than that. 3 thin, yet sturdy, slices off the block is about an ounce. I don't eat more than that in a sitting. I eat 3 meals a day most of the time. Occasionally on hungrier days I'll have 3 slices as a snack. Some days I have cheese at every meal, some days I don't.
I don't really have to measure the HWC or sour cream. I know how much a serving looks like. And the same principle applies. I have coffee with HWC, not HWC with a splash of coffee. Pulled apart roast with a dollop of sour cream, not a pile of sour cream with a forkful of roast.
Just thoughts to add to the discussion.
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Cheese is really an individual thing. I figure pairing it as an enhancement to food tends to keep it to amounts most can easily handle. If you can eat more without problems, that's not really something that would disqualify someone. I also tend to overdo it with cheese. So, I rarely eat it at all. Cheese is one of the first things I would recommend people reducing or cutting if they have problems with just meat. We don't really need to limit it. Just a little "use common sense and don't think an 8 oz block of cheese as a snack is a good idea."
Alliwan, I'll quote from Stefansson [talking of men adapting to an all-meat diet on long-duration polar expeditions]:Suddenly, then, we are on nothing but seal; for while our food at sea does average ten per cent polar bear, there may be months in which we do not see a bear. The men go at the seal loyally; they are volunteers and, whatever the suffering, they have bargained for it and intend to grin and bear it. For a day or two they eat square meals. Then the appetite begins to flag and they discover, as they had more than half expected, that for them personally it is going to be a hard pull or a failure. Some own up that they can't eat, while others pretend to have good appetites, enlisting the surreptitious help of a dog to dispose of their share. In extreme cases, which are usually those of the middle-aged and conservative, they go two or three days practically or entirely without eating. We had no weighing apparatus; but I take it that some have lost anything from ten to twenty pounds, what with the hard work on empty stomachs. They become gloomy and grouchy and, as I once wrote, "They begin to say to each other, and sometimes to me, things about their judgment in joining a polar expedition that I cannot print."
But after a few days even the conservatives begin to nibble at the seal meat; after a few more they are eating a good deal of it, rather under protest; at the end of three or four weeks they are eating square meals, though still talking about their willingness to give a soul or a right arm for this or that. Amusingly, and perhaps instructively, they often long for ham and eggs or corned beef when, according to theory, they ought to be longing for vegetables and fruits. Some of them have mentioned hankering for things like sauerkraut or orange juice; but more usually it is hot cakes and syrup or bread and butter.
[. . . skipping forward to where he talks about them getting back to regular food . . .]
in nine cases out of ten of those who have been on meat six months or over, they are willing to go back to meat again. If a man does not want to take part in a second sledge journey it is usually for a reason other than dislike of exclusive meat.
Still, as just implied, the verdict depends on how long one has been on the diet. If at the end of the first five or ten days our men could have been miraculously rescued from the exclusive seal and brought back to their varied foods, most of them would have sworn forever after that they were about to die when rescued, and they would have vowed never to taste seal again—vows which would have been easy to keep, for no doubt in such cases the thought of seal, even years later, would have been accompanied by a feeling of revulsion. If a man has been on meat exclusively for only two or three months he may or may not be reluctant to go back to it again. But when the period has been six months or over, I remember no one who was unwilling to go back to meat. Moreover, those who have done without vegetables for an aggregate of several years usually thereafter eat a larger percentage of meat than the average citizen
The truth is that for many, they do find meat to become completely unappealing at first. They often find themselves unable to eat. Maybe it's texture. Maybe it's boredom. But, survival trumps all things. After they overcome the revulsion, they become quite content with it. If they've done it long enough, they are even willing to go right back to it when given the chance.
Anyone can learn to like anything. Food preferences are acquired and malleable. They're not innate and immutable.
But, if you don't want to. If it's not in your desires to try and change this. If you are happy with how you currently eat. Then, there is no reason to force a change.0 -
Hi! I've been a lurker so far, but am really intrigued by the idea of a zero carb month. Have just been reading a lot of Bear's old posts, "Adventures in Diet" by Stefansson, and "How to Stay Alive in the Woods" by Bradford Angier. Feel better and better the less veggies I eat: so I'm up for it!!0
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The truth is that for many, they do find meat to become completely unappealing at first. They often find themselves unable to eat. Maybe it's texture. Maybe it's boredom. But, survival trumps all things. After they overcome the revulsion, they become quite content with it. If they've done it long enough, they are even willing to go right back to it when given the chance.
Anyone can learn to like anything. Food preferences are acquired and malleable. They're not innate and immutable.
But, if you don't want to. If it's not in your desires to try and change this. If you are happy with how you currently eat. Then, there is no reason to force a change.
Hear, hear!
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