Maybe We Should Have A Meat-Only May Challenge?
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I don't think we need to worry that much about the cheese thing. Just have a sort of "use your head. Don't go overboard on it, and if you get constipated, back off the cheese."
Personally, I practically live on cheese. It's my go-to snack when I need one, and I put it on just about everything (eggs? Topped with cheese, sometimes have it in it; burgers? Of course. Salad? Must have cheese on it). I think as long as you're usually pairing it with a non-cheese item, and that non-cheese item is at least the same size as the cheese, you should be okay. In my experience, at least, a piece of cheese on its own as a snack doesn't make a difference in the plumbing department, but then, I haven't gone ZC yet, so that may make a difference.
So how about this? "Pair cheese with meat in most cases."
Hehe...instead of "one cannot live on bread alone," it's "one cannot live on cheese alone."
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So it's meat, cheese, eggs, coffee, and cream? I see chocolate in your future.
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I've RSVP'd with a maybe. Often I eat whole days zc but I'm a little scared to jump in mouth first with a total commitment.
Not because I think it's wrong just because of social pressure, 6 family birthdays in May! (2 are my kids) not sure I'll be able to go 100%, but I'm working on my brain and trying to plan it out..0 -
Good luck to you all. Sounds fun but I love my veggies. I'm sticking with low carb (-50 is all I can manage now) but I'll be watching y'all.0
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Siberianmomma wrote: »Good luck to you all. Sounds fun but I love my veggies. I'm sticking with low carb (-50 is all I can manage now) but I'll be watching y'all.
Same here. I have to bow out. I love veggies and have such texture issues with meat, it isnt worth starving myself or throwing up over the texture of meat just to eat meat. I dont agree that if you'll hungry enough you'll eat meat unless you've been without food for a few days or weeks maybe. MEat flavor is ok most of the time, can dress it up a little but I cant use most mixed spices but the texture? ugh. I gag often when I eat it, same with bananas that arent green, cant swallow it. Shrimp? like eating someones finger muscle. Id pick peas over meat any day of the week.
Texture, it is so important. Id seriously be a vegetarian 90% of the time if i didnt have to eat Keto for health reasons.
But I am glad that there is this group and lots of people willing to try new things and think outside the box when it comes to their eating habits and their health. I love to see all the stories and ideas out there, even if i cant follow along as much as I wish I could.0 -
I would be out on this one, but would watch with interest. I did a similar experiment last year while trying to figure out what I thought were digestive issues and was completely miserable and quit a week before I intended. Digestive issue since resolved, so I'll leave this to ya'll!0
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baconslave wrote: »octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
My main concern with cheese would be constipation. That's why I recommend not eating it as the primary component of a meal/snack. It's not the carbs I would worry about with the cheese. Without fiber to help it along, the cheese can slow things down if over-done. Coffee, by the way, can have the opposite effect (if you happen to overdo the cheese, coffee can be a remedy).
The heavy cream, in bowl sized amounts, does have appreciable carbs.
Personally, I don't [often] use coconut oil. That said, I think it's probably the best and most acceptable of the vegetable fats. I do use it for frying things, if I don't want to use up all my bacon grease. I have a fair amount left over from when I was just doing keto and included it in fat bombs, coffee, and other dishes all the time. It is more the liquid oils (canola, corn, soy, etc.) that I would avoid. Olive oil is also probably fine. And, if that would be a breaking point for someone, I am willing to bend on the oils. Sometimes, even I use a little commercial dressing or mayo. I try not to make it a large component of my intake, because I prefer animal sources before those.
How bout a daily cheese limit? No more than 4oz? That's what the old school Atkins induction circa 1972 was about. Meats and animal fats only, olive oil or CO, a little salad dressing and mayo, and no more than 4oz cheese and little bit of other low-carb dairy.
That could work. Sounds a lot like measuring to me, lol. But, it would amount to the same thing.
Well it is a little bit of measuring. But so is making sure you aren't eating a whole bowl of cream, technically. Are we scrambling on a slippery slope now?
If you all are allowing animal products like dairy, then they'll have to be some limitation of some variety. Because they do have carbs.
If people learn to eyeball it first (I've gotten really good at eyeballing about an oz.), and try not to eat it more than 3 times a day, I figure that should suffice. Or even just making sure to remember that cheese isn't the main course, but a garnish or a small snack. I don't eat cheese with meat on it. I eat meat with cheese on it. That's how I'm treating it. I don't really measure farther than that. 3 thin, yet sturdy, slices off the block is about an ounce. I don't eat more than that in a sitting. I eat 3 meals a day most of the time. Occasionally on hungrier days I'll have 3 slices as a snack. Some days I have cheese at every meal, some days I don't.
I don't really have to measure the HWC or sour cream. I know how much a serving looks like. And the same principle applies. I have coffee with HWC, not HWC with a splash of coffee. Pulled apart roast with a dollop of sour cream, not a pile of sour cream with a forkful of roast.
Just thoughts to add to the discussion.
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Cheese is really an individual thing. I figure pairing it as an enhancement to food tends to keep it to amounts most can easily handle. If you can eat more without problems, that's not really something that would disqualify someone. I also tend to overdo it with cheese. So, I rarely eat it at all. Cheese is one of the first things I would recommend people reducing or cutting if they have problems with just meat. We don't really need to limit it. Just a little "use common sense and don't think an 8 oz block of cheese as a snack is a good idea."
Alliwan, I'll quote from Stefansson [talking of men adapting to an all-meat diet on long-duration polar expeditions]:Suddenly, then, we are on nothing but seal; for while our food at sea does average ten per cent polar bear, there may be months in which we do not see a bear. The men go at the seal loyally; they are volunteers and, whatever the suffering, they have bargained for it and intend to grin and bear it. For a day or two they eat square meals. Then the appetite begins to flag and they discover, as they had more than half expected, that for them personally it is going to be a hard pull or a failure. Some own up that they can't eat, while others pretend to have good appetites, enlisting the surreptitious help of a dog to dispose of their share. In extreme cases, which are usually those of the middle-aged and conservative, they go two or three days practically or entirely without eating. We had no weighing apparatus; but I take it that some have lost anything from ten to twenty pounds, what with the hard work on empty stomachs. They become gloomy and grouchy and, as I once wrote, "They begin to say to each other, and sometimes to me, things about their judgment in joining a polar expedition that I cannot print."
But after a few days even the conservatives begin to nibble at the seal meat; after a few more they are eating a good deal of it, rather under protest; at the end of three or four weeks they are eating square meals, though still talking about their willingness to give a soul or a right arm for this or that. Amusingly, and perhaps instructively, they often long for ham and eggs or corned beef when, according to theory, they ought to be longing for vegetables and fruits. Some of them have mentioned hankering for things like sauerkraut or orange juice; but more usually it is hot cakes and syrup or bread and butter.
[. . . skipping forward to where he talks about them getting back to regular food . . .]
in nine cases out of ten of those who have been on meat six months or over, they are willing to go back to meat again. If a man does not want to take part in a second sledge journey it is usually for a reason other than dislike of exclusive meat.
Still, as just implied, the verdict depends on how long one has been on the diet. If at the end of the first five or ten days our men could have been miraculously rescued from the exclusive seal and brought back to their varied foods, most of them would have sworn forever after that they were about to die when rescued, and they would have vowed never to taste seal again—vows which would have been easy to keep, for no doubt in such cases the thought of seal, even years later, would have been accompanied by a feeling of revulsion. If a man has been on meat exclusively for only two or three months he may or may not be reluctant to go back to it again. But when the period has been six months or over, I remember no one who was unwilling to go back to meat. Moreover, those who have done without vegetables for an aggregate of several years usually thereafter eat a larger percentage of meat than the average citizen
The truth is that for many, they do find meat to become completely unappealing at first. They often find themselves unable to eat. Maybe it's texture. Maybe it's boredom. But, survival trumps all things. After they overcome the revulsion, they become quite content with it. If they've done it long enough, they are even willing to go right back to it when given the chance.
Anyone can learn to like anything. Food preferences are acquired and malleable. They're not innate and immutable.
But, if you don't want to. If it's not in your desires to try and change this. If you are happy with how you currently eat. Then, there is no reason to force a change.0 -
Hi! I've been a lurker so far, but am really intrigued by the idea of a zero carb month. Have just been reading a lot of Bear's old posts, "Adventures in Diet" by Stefansson, and "How to Stay Alive in the Woods" by Bradford Angier. Feel better and better the less veggies I eat: so I'm up for it!!0
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The truth is that for many, they do find meat to become completely unappealing at first. They often find themselves unable to eat. Maybe it's texture. Maybe it's boredom. But, survival trumps all things. After they overcome the revulsion, they become quite content with it. If they've done it long enough, they are even willing to go right back to it when given the chance.
Anyone can learn to like anything. Food preferences are acquired and malleable. They're not innate and immutable.
But, if you don't want to. If it's not in your desires to try and change this. If you are happy with how you currently eat. Then, there is no reason to force a change.
Hear, hear!
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The truth is that for many, they do find meat to become completely unappealing at first. They often find themselves unable to eat. Maybe it's texture. Maybe it's boredom. But, survival trumps all things. After they overcome the revulsion, they become quite content with it. If they've done it long enough, they are even willing to go right back to it when given the chance.
Anyone can learn to like anything. Food preferences are acquired and malleable. They're not innate and immutable.
But, if you don't want to. If it's not in your desires to try and change this. If you are happy with how you currently eat. Then, there is no reason to force a change.
I agree, anyone can eat anything given the right incentive, which is what I said earlier about having to starve a few days to get to the point of wanting or trying to eat all meat all the time. I am sure you'd find peas eatable after a few days of hunger.
I am ok with what I eat, i LOVE veggies and it makes my meat tolerable when I can pair the two together. But I love that others love meat enough to eat it all the time and I am excited to see the results.0 -
Texture, it is so important. Id seriously be a vegetarian 90% of the time if i didnt have to eat Keto for health reasons.
http://www.healthfulpursuit.com/2015/04/video-low-carb-vegan-keto-plant-based/ - How to be a plant-based ketoer.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »octobubbles wrote: »Having some heavy cream in coffee or in a sauce, is fine. Whipping it up (even with no sweeteners) and eating it by the bowl is not.
I didn't want a bowl of just whipped cream until I read this.
I'm definitely going to try this! I asked my husband last night (after he declined making asparagus with our salmon hollandaise) if he wanted to start cutting out veggies and he said yes. Not sure how he'd feel about this, though, he does tend to snack on cheese. Though if I can get him to pair it with a meat it's Goat-approved, right? Sometimes he has chicken sandwiched between cheese slices after his workouts.
No coconut oil, huh? So I should use butter/lard/ghee/bacon grease for cooking, only?
Lol, that's how I am with this whole topic. I normally don't really have much interest in eating vegetables and won't go out of my way to get them (though I often get a salad when eating out), but as soon as I start looking at/talking about the "zero carb" thing, I immediately start craving a giant salad. I'm just like "WTF?"
The funny part is, I'm like 80-90% of the way there, already, on my normal days. I tend to snack on cheese, too, and giving up my mayo will be a bit difficult, but maybe I'll get off my butt and render the pork fat I have in my freezer and try a batch with lard, or maybe try butter. Hrm... (Hubby's been experimenting with a charcoal grill, and it sometimes makes the food kind of dry, I need something to not feel like I'm eating shoe leather!)
That was me today. I have been doing zero carb for two days just to get the hang of it b4 committing to d may challenge. I was making some low carb veg for hubby's dinner and i found myself craving so badly for some. Fair to say i had 5 green beans.0 -
We should definitely note that while supplements are not necessary, they are in no way against the rules. You don't need a multivitamin while eating like this, I promise. But, I know that some people might feel a bit "safer" taking one, just in case. I would strongly discourage any fiber supplementation, as one of the benefits here is the no fiber (believe it or not, it helps a lot of people when they have no fiber). But, a multivitamin or other vitamin isn't going to hurt.
I was going to edit the event to add that (the fact that "not necessary" isn't the same as forbidden), but I can't edit it. In any case, if that's the only reason someone decides not to join, I would feel bad. The first few times I tried it, I started taking a vitamin for mental peace of mind myself. It was only after extensive research and a decision to really jump off the edge completely with no chute for a minimum of 30 days, that I was able to let them go. So, I get it. And, I wouldn't hold it against anyone. If they decide this way is something they like, they can experiment with dropping the vitamins another time.
Edit: Random meat and melted butter picture
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We should definitely note that while supplements are not necessary, they are in no way against the rules. You don't need a multivitamin while eating like this, I promise. But, I know that some people might feel a bit "safer" taking one, just in case. I would strongly discourage any fiber supplementation, as one of the benefits here is the no fiber (believe it or not, it helps a lot of people when they have no fiber). But, a multivitamin or other vitamin isn't going to hurt.
I was going to edit the event to add that (the fact that "not necessary" isn't the same as forbidden), but I can't edit it. In any case, if that's the only reason someone decides not to join, I would feel bad. The first few times I tried it, I started taking a vitamin for mental peace of mind myself. It was only after extensive research and a decision to really jump off the edge completely with no chute for a minimum of 30 days, that I was able to let them go. So, I get it. And, I wouldn't hold it against anyone. If they decide this way is something they like, they can experiment with dropping the vitamins another time.
Edit: Random meat and melted butter picture
Edited it to mention that, with the caveat that fiber supplements are disallowed (since they would defeat half the purpose of the challenge).
And is that your dinner? Looks tasty.0 -
Yep, that's my dinner. To be fair, I couldn't finish more than half of that meat. And the butter was just for dipping, so most of that is left too. I like to prepare enough that I almost always have extra, it means I can eat until I am really full and don't end up stopping just because I ran out of meat.0
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Sorry this double posts: computer acting squirrelly.
I have a silly question, and my husband has already told me I am overthinking things, but that's what I do, so here goes. If we are not keeping track of calories, how do we know we are getting enough fat and not too much protein for "good" macros, percentage wise? Or do we not care about that either? I read somewhere that if you eat 70% of your calories from protein, it is toxic. I assume this is the dreaded "rabbit starvation" I have heard about. I am trying to stop restricting, and do zero carb, but it's hard to get the fat in, and I get over 40% from protein quite easily. Quite a few days, over 100 g of protein, alot of days, 80 to 90. help and guidance much appreciated. 0 -
Sorry this double posts: computer acting squirrelly.
I have a silly question, and my husband has already told me I am overthinking things, but that's what I do, so here goes. If we are not keeping track of calories, how do we know we are getting enough fat and not too much protein for "good" macros, percentage wise? Or do we not care about that either? I read somewhere that if you eat 70% of your calories from protein, it is toxic. I assume this is the dreaded "rabbit starvation" I have heard about. I am trying to stop restricting, and do zero carb, but it's hard to get the fat in, and I get over 40% from protein quite easily. Quite a few days, over 100 g of protein, alot of days, 80 to 90. help and guidance much appreciated.
It'd be easier to see what you can change if we could see your diary, but generally -- eat fatty meats and eat any actual pieces of fat first. Eat whole eggs and cook them in a fat. Eat 75/25 hamburger if you can get it.
Protein toxicity (aka rabbit starvation) takes a few days to set in, and you have to actually try to get those levels of protein on this kind of diet. In the early stages, it starts with diarrhea, and insatiable cravings for fat and/or carbs set in. These happen long before any real damage starts, so you're not likely to have an issue as long as you heed your cravings in that sense. In modern society, it only becomes an issue in situations where people still fear fat, but are also trying to be low carb -- they end up living on protein and try to fight through the cravings on "willpower."
Eat fat when you crave it, add some protein, and you should be fine.0 -
I'm kind of proud of myself. I ordered my meal at Bob Evans and specifically requested the veggies be taken out of my omelet, and got bacon on the side instead of my usual salad.
In the past couple of weeks, this talk of zero carb/plants has made the rebellious part of me go "want salad NOW!" And I know it's because of kicking around the idea of not having it, and it's like that whole "I could never give up my carbs" type of reaction. So, to prove to myself I could do it, I specifically made my dinner zero carb.
Well, I ordered it that way. It wasn't quite perfect -- they left the peppers in from the way it comes by default, but there aren't that many in it, and by the time I found it, it was way too late to fix it (I had taken the meal to go and it was like an hour an a half later).
Now that I'm out of ham from Easter, I can get meats that don't have sugar added to them. It was good in my eggs, but by itself, it actually tasted too sweet.0 -
For the meat-only challenge, you are welcome to track. But, you would be very hard-pressed to get 70% calories from protein. Honestly, when I have a super-super-lean day (where I just eat lean meat all day with no added fats), I might hit 40%. A typical day without added fats of any sort (just burgers and steak) typically lands me around 22-27% protein. If you find yourself thinking of butter or eying the fatty strip on the edge of your steak, follow that urge. Don't avoid fat, but you don't usually need to seek it out. You would need to try and live on canned tuna, chicken breasts, and egg whites to really push the protein to dangerous levels. You'll lose all desire for lean meat long before that, and you'll crave fats. You'll know without tracking.
But, you can track if you want.0 -
Thanks for the feedback. I made my diary public, but I think I see what the issue is myself, just reviewing it. First of all I am probably not tracking all the fat I get in butter, grease, etc., so I'm undercounting it, and also I have probably still not made the transition to meat with enough fat. I was used to eating a variety of meats, and too many of those are lean. I am going to change the type of meat, and see if that helps. Thanks again! 0
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I am the same @LaurenLK I am finding my habits of leaner meats interfering with my fat totals too. This is a whole new way of thinking and takes a bit to retrain my brain! Not sure if I'm completely up to the challenge, but still have a few days to decide!
If that's the point you're at, then I'd suggest sitting this particular challenge out and instead work on getting your fat intake up through fatty meats (unless you're the type that responds well to jumping to an extreme, even temporarily).0 -
Start with the cheaper-priced meats in your butcher's department. The more white fat, the better.
If you can't resist a trimmed filet, make sure you cook it up with some bacon!
Bacon is basically my number one dietary supplement, now.0 -
Thanks Dragonwolf! I still have half of the month to decide. Will be working on fatty meats. I did by regular ground beef yesterday, so I am changing!0
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I was thinking about joining but since my body doesn't agree with dairy, there's absolutely no way I could do this without plant oils. I'll keep doing my own thing.0
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Very intriguing. But I wonder why @FIT_Goat you say that a multivitamin is not necessary. How are we getting all of our necessary nutrients?
Also, I assume "meat" is all animal protein, poultry, beef, pork, etc.?
This may be a good option for my husband who will be starting low carb (again) next week. He does not particularly like vegetables.
Thank you!0 -
I'm watching and lurking. I'm still on the fence with all the work that went into planting our garden...lol. Shoulda grown pigs and a cows instead. 0
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Very intriguing. But I wonder why @FIT_Goat you say that a multivitamin is not necessary. How are we getting all of our necessary nutrients?
Also, I assume "meat" is all animal protein, poultry, beef, pork, etc.?
This may be a good option for my husband who will be starting low carb (again) next week. He does not particularly like vegetables.
Thank you!
Animal sources provide all the necessary nutrients for humans.AnarchoGen wrote: »I was thinking about joining but since my body doesn't agree with dairy, there's absolutely no way I could do this without plant oils. I'll keep doing my own thing.
Lard, tallow, and duck fat are not dairy.0
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