The friendzone ...
Replies
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Not trying to stir the pot here, but I am a little curious about the reasoning behind this. Does his ex think it is okay to have sex with other women, just not date them? I kind of feel like if he really wanted something he would just date you in private and keep it from his ex instead of just calling it a FWB thing. Also the two of you sound like a little more than just friends if you've discussed all of this. Maybe he'll come around but maybe he's just filling a void.Yeah, I do. There is a lot of history behind all this. I've actually posted about him in this group before. There was timing issues and other stuff in the way. Now it's just his own screwed up issues.
Fine, you twisted my arm. He is from a South American culture and raised Catholic and he married an American woman who is crazy and they got divorced (which is against the way he was brought up) and whenever he tries to move on the ex keeps the kids from him.
But I obviously don't know the whole story and it sounds like you've got it figured out for the most part, but I still feel like if he was really into you he would make it work and none of that other stuff would really matter.
I don't really know about his ex's feelings. However, he was in a relationship previously and she pulled some very dirty tricks to try and keep him from his kids. Now that he is single, she is civil to him and shares custody as she should. In a way, I suppose it is more like we are dating secretly than FWB, but he has a lot of reservations. It's connecting emotionally that is the challenge. He's shown me how he feels in a lot of ways over the years, but if I push too hard for an emotional connection, then he shuts down.
And let me just add that he never called it FWB, I did. Because that's what I relate it to. We are friends, we have sex, there are no commitments, but there could be more if he can work out this mental block. We only recently began having sex. There has always been sexual tension and we had a difficult time navigating around that. At one point, we had stopped speaking, or at least I stopped speaking to him, and he looked visibly distraught when we were around each other.
There have been lots of things done and said over the years to lead me to my conclusion about his feelings. I used to be very confused about how he felt, but since we began having sex, things have become a lot more clear. Honestly, my feelings are that I don't really have anything to lose. Being in a relationship is much less a priority for me than it has ever been. If it works out, then great, but if not, I'll get over it.0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.
Since you seem to have forgotten, this is a quote from you.I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB. Is it possible to go from FWB to something more?
It's all well and good to "clarify" now and add qualifiers that seem to change every time you post if that helps you feel better. However, every time we respond the only defense is "You guys just don't understand!".0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.
Since you seem to have forgotten, this is a quote from you.I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB. Is it possible to go from FWB to something more?
It's all well and good to "clarify" now and add qualifiers that seem to change every time you post if that helps you feel better. However, every time we respond the only defense is "You guys just don't understand!".
Well I'm sorry that I mispoke... no need to get all butt-hurt because I don't want to take your advice.0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow 0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow
K. Well thanks.0 -
I would probably say that you are dating, although he may disagree with that. It's probably best not to get strung up on labels in your situation. It is what it is...complicated. Good luck!And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?0 -
I would probably say that you are dating, although he may disagree with that. It's probably best not to get strung up on labels in your situation. It is what it is...complicated. Good luck!And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
Thank you!0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow
K. Well thanks.
Good luck! We all hope it works out for you, but complicated (good word Roadie) rarely does in the end...0 -
All men aren't looking for sex but if he's in a FWB situation, he got there because he was looking for sex.
BINGO!0 -
Dying to know the "extenuating circumstances" Dying
LOL you crack me up! :laugh: I'm nosey too!0 -
No. You cannot move out of the friendzone, especially with close friends.My friend and I aren't really FWB's ... one night happened on the weekend that was not planned ... just happened ... and we are really good friends ... can turn to each other and can talk to each other about anything but are both very attracted to each other. I see his point because it's not that often someone comes along you can confide it and talk to so comfortably. He doesn't want to screw up what we have because neither one of us can be friends with our ex's and we both know that. He is also sort of seeing someone right now. Him and I have always had horrible timing. He was dating someone when I liked him originally and then I met a guy I was with for 8 months ... he ended up single during this time and I wasn't available, and he started seeing someone a couple of weeks before my ex and I broke up this time. The timing has never been there anyway. I respect him way too much to ever let him be my rebound so I don't want a relationship with him right now ... I love our friendship ... he's the best guy! My question was basically for the future ... that if one day the hands did line up and we were both single at the same time ... could I move out of the friendzone? That was the whole point of this thread but I guess it's my fault for not relaying the whole story. Just wanted a general feeling.
If one days your stars line up, then you will realise that actually you enjoyed your friendship more than having a relationship with him and you will start seeing his flaws because you will actually have to deal with them.
In life, you will find out that the stars rarely line up and since neither of you thought it was worth fighting "fate" for each other, then clearly you will find a better match at some point in the future - someone you will want to fight for, not this wishy-washy embryo of a relationship you are presenting as exceptional when it is not.
As an aside, I have been able to talk about "anything" in any of my relationships (even the relationship itself). I wonder how you can create a relationship with "good" and "sustainable" dynamics without this...
These are the facts, this is how life is.
But it is everyone's birth right to make mistakes. So if you guys want to experience your failure first hand, then again, simply set a deadline so that at least you're not dragged on forever in this situation.0 -
wishy-washy embryo of a relationship you are presenting as exceptional when it is not
Unrelated, this term cracked me the f*uck up0 -
Maybe I'm not most guys, and maybe I'm murking up the waters...
But for me, yeah, her classification can always change in any direction. But for most people (male and female) it doesn't seem to work that way. People are closed-minded and set in their ways...0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
I agree. Not much of an upgrade.
"I don't want to date you...but I'll have sex with you."0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
I agree. Not much of an upgrade.
"I don't want to date you...but I'll have sex with you."
It depends on what you want. If you want the other person for sex, yes it's an upgrade. If you just want to be friends or want to be in a relationship, then no it's not.0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.
I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...
I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.
I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...
I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!
Well I think part of the reason things got cold suddenly is because he did feel an emotional connection. He and I have already discussed his issue to some extent. He mentioned then that he might need to get help. I just pointed out that thing standing in our way is his own mentality on the subject.
I have hope but I'm realistic. If we never have sex again, I will still be his friend. I will support any decision he makes for himself.0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.
I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...
I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!
The voice of reason!!!
From what I understand, men do not fall in love with a woman after sex the same way women are more likely to develop emotional feelings towards a man after having sex with him. When women have sex their bodies release a "bonding" hormone called oxytocin. Oxytocin helps assist with contractions during childbirth and it also assists with the production of breast milk. Sometimes when a baby cries a woman inadvertently released breast milk...that is the "bonding" hormone at work.
To my knowledge this occurs in men but in much lesser amounts.
It's biology!0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.
I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...
I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!
The voice of reason!!!
From what I understand, men do not fall in love with a woman after sex the same way women are more likely to develop emotional feelings towards a man after having sex with him. When women have sex their bodies release a "bonding" hormone called oxytocin. Oxytocin helps assist with contractions during childbirth and it also assists with the production of breast milk. Sometimes when a baby cries a woman inadvertently released breast milk...that is the "bonding" hormone at work.
To my knowledge this occurs in men but in much lesser amounts.
It's biology!
Okay... but this guy had feelings for me before we had sex. It was a timing issue because we were with other people. I admitted my feelings to him once. He stated that he "couldn't" love any other woman other than his ex-wife, not even the girl he was with at the time, then he muttered 'I love you' under his breath as I walked away.
There is lots of history... like others have said... I'm not technically in FWB, or at least, he has never referred to it that way. It's a complicated relationship involving some very deep-seded emotions that are being repressed.0 -
I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.
Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"
I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.
(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)
Okay... speaking for myself...
This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.
Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.
Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.
I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...
I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!
The voice of reason!!!
From what I understand, men do not fall in love with a woman after sex the same way women are more likely to develop emotional feelings towards a man after having sex with him. When women have sex their bodies release a "bonding" hormone called oxytocin. Oxytocin helps assist with contractions during childbirth and it also assists with the production of breast milk. Sometimes when a baby cries a woman inadvertently released breast milk...that is the "bonding" hormone at work.
To my knowledge this occurs in men but in much lesser amounts.
It's biology!
Not always true. Back in September I met a guy at a bar that I went home with. We would hang out and sleep together the following six weeks after that before he left (he was only in town for eight weeks for a training course before getting sent to North Dakota for work). He had told me in the beginning that there when he left, I would never hear from him again. It sucked, but I wanted to spend time with him. I fell hard and fast for him and for me, any time with him was better than none. He left mid-October, and by the end of it, he was messaging me twice a week or so. Anytime he would say anything mildly flirty, I wrote it off as nothing more than that and forced myself to believe that he didn't have feelings for me, he was just keeping his options open should he ever end up back in my area. We've kept in touch and talk nearly every day now and he finally admitted to having feelings for me over the weekend.
We weren't friends before, so I guess my situation is a little different. The sex was great so we kept going back to each other, but we did make a connection that was deeper than that. There are things that will most likely keep us apart - the fact that his job ships him all over the world for extended periods and he rarely gets to go home, and his home isn't here. Maybe my situation is a rare one, but it's obviously not impossible.0 -
I think it's wrong to say that men dont bond emotionally during sex. In fact, I'd say that if there is going to be any emotional attachment then it's going to happen during/after sex!! Men dont usually fall in love WITHOUT the sex part!
Men aren't machines, yer know! They do have feelings. Perhaps they are just better at separating the physical from emotional?? :huh:
Although, both men AND women can separate the physical from emotional. I've not been in love with every man I've slept with, that is for sure !! :flowerforyou:0 -
I think it's wrong to say that men dont bond emotionally during sex. In fact, I'd say that if there is going to be any emotional attachment then it's going to happen during/after sex!! Men dont usually fall in love WITHOUT the sex part!
I agree it's wrong to say that. But I don't think they fall in love BECAUSE of the sex; I think for men sex "completes the whole package" whereas many women begin to feel especially strong feelings for a guy after they are physical with them (to my knowledge, from observing my friends' relationships). I feel like all my friends have been "so-so" about their relationships but as soon as it gets sexual they are all of a sudden madly in love.Men aren't machines, yer know! They do have feelings. Perhaps they are just better at separating the physical from emotional??
I absolutely agree.Not always true.
You're right. I'm sure it's not 100% true but I think it's pretty damn true for the most part.0 -
What I think at issue here is a pure communication problem.
As the debate here illustrates, people have their own definitions of what should be done and what the end result typically is.
The jargon may change, and frankly I have a huge, huge, HUGE pet peeve that "hook up" or FWB has become a cool hip ironically independent sounding euphemism for dating. I'll table that rant for that later.
FWB, casual relationship, short term relationship, hook up...these all are words used created with a generalized set of rules for each one.
But, the catch, and always what causes 99% of the problem. Every single person has their own Wikipedia definition set to roll out on these generalized terms. And rather than have a deep level conversation with their "friend", "hook up",
Each one just assumes that they are following that "wikipedia" definition. It works for awhile because they have first component of what should be done attached with the given label. Hook up means seeing other people, FWB same, Short term relationship, Casual relationship tend to imply monogamy but ultimately no walking down the aisle or long term cohabitation is seen in the immediate future.
But, it's that second part that's the doozy. It's the missed step.
What the end result typically is.
That's the elephant in the room, that's the unspoken beast that often makes for the "bad hook-ups". To me, successful "hook-ups" or "fwbs" that work is because the people involved pretty much had the exact or similar wiki "set of rules" in their head. They got fortunate that their definitions matched up.
There's the people that are really just hooking up for hooking up, f'ing buddies for f'in buddies.
Then there's the people, those annoyingly want to make my head bang against the brick wall, people that interchange hooking up or fwb with casual dating (which directly implies it may lead to a more serious one later)
Their wiki is set to Hook up leads to serious relationship later.
FWB is a preliminary to LTR.
Except that when they meet a person, they expect that person to have the brand new all counter-intuitive definition in their head..but end up meeting one person that the definitions remain as they always started...and with zero communication involved...
"Bad hook up" indeed.
Here's my deal. With your partner, avoid these general concepts like a plague if you can help it. Sit down, hammer out what should be done (seeing other people? keeping it strictly to sex with no "hanging out" *cough*dating*cough*?) and what the end result typically is (is something more serious going to be an option at a later point?). Ultimately, labels may provide a general framework but they are just that...labels.
If you know that you are a more serious emotional person who has a tendency to get attached, then specifically say something that you wish to keep an option open for this whatever-label-you-use-agreement to become something more serious in the future. If one person does want that serious part at a later part, then a new deep discussion is held about what both parties expect and want at the later point. What typically causes the downfall of bad FWB or hook-up experience is this lack of communicating a desire for either a change to the set rules or even worse a created expectation for seriousness later (because it's hip to call dating Hooking up...R A G E...*ahem*), and the other party is never informed of the partner's definition until it's typically too late.
Right now, you're in the middle of a confusing mix of labels and obviously wanting more, but he's still got whatever issue he has on the table and is concerned that it will effect a more "set" relationship (because there are more stress factors involved with a "set" relationship).
Here's the deal.
Sit down
Have that deep level discussion. Define exactly what you want now, define exactly what you expect later. Labels are out the door in this discussion. Here's my suggestion for some ground-work on that discussion.
You want something more serious, say so. Tell him you understand his dilemma on getting help, but at the same time you can't honestly ignore your own growing feelings. You can be there to help support him and make sure he has support, but again can't ignore your own growing feelings. Ultimately, you don't want to cause even more stress on top of the plate he all has. Going back and forth with all these unknowns, stress seems all ready there and eventually may direct that stress in a bad way that you want to avoid.
At least, that's my suggestion for a template sit down deep discussion. Anyways, I'm done with my bit.
Good luck!
Sort it out now. Don't wait.0 -
I agree with everything you've said.azhcanedition's pamphlet
That's also why I don't believe in love at first sight and all the Disney crap.
Welcome to the 21st century people, where you have to clarify your expectations, interrupt the "flow" of the relationship to talk seriously, have non-romantic difficult conversations from time to time - otherwise you might well be the only one thinking you're in love (and worse).
That's the price to pay to stop living in a world of lies.0 -
Oopsy (double post).0
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What I think at issue here is a pure communication problem.
As the debate here illustrates, people have their own definitions of what should be done and what the end result typically is.
The jargon may change, and frankly I have a huge, huge, HUGE pet peeve that "hook up" or FWB has become a cool hip ironically independent sounding euphemism for dating. I'll table that rant for that later.
FWB, casual relationship, short term relationship, hook up...these all are words used created with a generalized set of rules for each one.
But, the catch, and always what causes 99% of the problem. Every single person has their own Wikipedia definition set to roll out on these generalized terms. And rather than have a deep level conversation with their "friend", "hook up",
Each one just assumes that they are following that "wikipedia" definition. It works for awhile because they have first component of what should be done attached with the given label. Hook up means seeing other people, FWB same, Short term relationship, Casual relationship tend to imply monogamy but ultimately no walking down the aisle or long term cohabitation is seen in the immediate future.
But, it's that second part that's the doozy. It's the missed step.
What the end result typically is.
That's the elephant in the room, that's the unspoken beast that often makes for the "bad hook-ups". To me, successful "hook-ups" or "fwbs" that work is because the people involved pretty much had the exact or similar wiki "set of rules" in their head. They got fortunate that their definitions matched up.
There's the people that are really just hooking up for hooking up, f'ing buddies for f'in buddies.
Then there's the people, those annoyingly want to make my head bang against the brick wall, people that interchange hooking up or fwb with casual dating (which directly implies it may lead to a more serious one later)
Their wiki is set to Hook up leads to serious relationship later.
FWB is a preliminary to LTR.
Except that when they meet a person, they expect that person to have the brand new all counter-intuitive definition in their head..but end up meeting one person that the definitions remain as they always started...and with zero communication involved...
"Bad hook up" indeed.
Here's my deal. With your partner, avoid these general concepts like a plague if you can help it. Sit down, hammer out what should be done (seeing other people? keeping it strictly to sex with no "hanging out" *cough*dating*cough*?) and what the end result typically is (is something more serious going to be an option at a later point?). Ultimately, labels may provide a general framework but they are just that...labels.
If you know that you are a more serious emotional person who has a tendency to get attached, then specifically say something that you wish to keep an option open for this whatever-label-you-use-agreement to become something more serious in the future. If one person does want that serious part at a later part, then a new deep discussion is held about what both parties expect and want at the later point. What typically causes the downfall of bad FWB or hook-up experience is this lack of communicating a desire for either a change to the set rules or even worse a created expectation for seriousness later (because it's hip to call dating Hooking up...R A G E...*ahem*), and the other party is never informed of the partner's definition until it's typically too late.
Right now, you're in the middle of a confusing mix of labels and obviously wanting more, but he's still got whatever issue he has on the table and is concerned that it will effect a more "set" relationship (because there are more stress factors involved with a "set" relationship).
Here's the deal.
Sit down
Have that deep level discussion. Define exactly what you want now, define exactly what you expect later. Labels are out the door in this discussion. Here's my suggestion for some ground-work on that discussion.
You want something more serious, say so. Tell him you understand his dilemma on getting help, but at the same time you can't honestly ignore your own growing feelings. You can be there to help support him and make sure he has support, but again can't ignore your own growing feelings. Ultimately, you don't want to cause even more stress on top of the plate he all has. Going back and forth with all these unknowns, stress seems all ready there and eventually may direct that stress in a bad way that you want to avoid.
At least, that's my suggestion for a template sit down deep discussion. Anyways, I'm done with my bit.
Good luck!
Sort it out now. Don't wait.
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