The friendzone ...
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FWB from a man's viewpoint:
http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2013/04/men-and-friends-with-benefits.html?m=1
I haven't read this but my opinion of most of the stuff that this guy writes is that it's garbage designed to collect money by convincing timid women that all their fears about men are true and as a result you have to really really make the guy prove himself to you.
This whole notion that a guy in a FWB is taking advantage of and using a woman is a bunch of crap. It's a mutually agreed upon voluntary activity. If a woman wants a full blown relationship but settles for sex the guy is not using her. He is not a jerk. It's not his fault he is a better negotiator. If anything, he is being used. She wants a relationship with him and is using sex to get it. That is a manipulative lie. Quite the foundation for a potential serious relationship.
I agree. If someone is delusional and keeps at it thinking that if they just keep the shindig going, he will turn around and see what's been in front of him all along, well it's just insanity on her part and being dishonest with herself. He's thinking he's just getting free poon which is what FWB do. They just use each other for sex, which is fine as long as both truly understand this. I don't think guys are jerks because of it. He assumes he's banging a mature adult who understands the term FWB.
I am not sure, in the case of this thread, that anyone suggests that FWB is manipulative and using of women in the general sense. FWB is mutually agreed upon, etc. Just like you have said.
The point of the thread is that she is hoping he will change and see her more than a FWB and be a boyfriend, but he has matter of factly stated that he isn't interested in a relationship. If she doesn't put her foot down and stand up for herself, and just hope things change she may very well end up feeling manipulated.
Stand up to what? If he doesn't want a relationship but she does, she has two options. Maintain the status quo or end the FWB relationship and move on. It isn't as if he is doing something wrong or mistreating her.
She is hoping he will change... see her differently... I am saying 'stand up for herself' in the sense that she can go to him, tell him she wants a relationship and walk away when (or if) he says no.
Unfortunately from most the opinions of most people in this thread, if she maintains the status quo, and just hopes he changes, she will be sadly disappointed
ETA: no one once said he was doing something wrong or mistreating her. She wants to stick it out and hope he sees her as more, but he has clearly told her he didn't want a relationship. So she can put her foot down on the FWB and say she wants the relationship or stay at the status quo and hope it changes - and probably build resentment.0 -
Gotcha, the way you originally worded it lead me to my previous post.0
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I don't think FWB are to be more than friends, from my experience. My current FWB will never be more than that. I know for sure, what works right now between the two of us wouldn't work in a committed relationship, I just know. He also knows I don't want more and he's ok with that. He is a wonderful man, but not someone I would date.
None of my FWB over the years have become more than that. Most of them are now good friends because we developed a good relationship, but none of them could become boyfriends.
My 0.02 cents :flowerforyou:0 -
This is what my heart wants and I won't be satisfied until I know for sure. Sex is only a new factor in this equation. Like I said, I'm staying realistic. I know there is a chance that I could get hurt. I've actually already resolved that I could be content completely alone. I'm not as young as some of you. I've been married. I've had chaos of all kinds in my life. A lot of it I created for myself. If sex is the most we will ever have between us, that will be a shame, but I've suffered through a lot worse.
I'm willing to take the risk.
i say go get him! All my life i must have come across 1-2 people who were perfect for me in everyway and i have no idea how many decades it will take before the 3rd one come along.He already is attracted to you so you have a MUCH MUCH better chance of getting him than any other girl out there.And it is so worth the heartache.No matter what,atleast in your heart you will know you gave it your best shot.Good luck!
Where I am confused is that she says ' I won't be satisfied until I know forsure' but he said he didn't want a relationship - so there you go! you know forsure!
He didn't say that he didn't want a relationship. He said that he couldn't because of his baggage.0 -
FWB from a man's viewpoint:
http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2013/04/men-and-friends-with-benefits.html?m=1
I haven't read this but my opinion of most of the stuff that this guy writes is that it's garbage designed to collect money by convincing timid women that all their fears about men are true and as a result you have to really really make the guy prove himself to you.
This whole notion that a guy in a FWB is taking advantage of and using a woman is a bunch of crap. It's a mutually agreed upon voluntary activity. If a woman wants a full blown relationship but settles for sex the guy is not using her. He is not a jerk. It's not his fault he is a better negotiator. If anything, he is being used. She wants a relationship with him and is using sex to get it. That is a manipulative lie. Quite the foundation for a potential serious relationship.
I agree. If someone is delusional and keeps at it thinking that if they just keep the shindig going, he will turn around and see what's been in front of him all along, well it's just insanity on her part and being dishonest with herself. He's thinking he's just getting free poon which is what FWB do. They just use each other for sex, which is fine as long as both truly understand this. I don't think guys are jerks because of it. He assumes he's banging a mature adult who understands the term FWB.
I am not sure, in the case of this thread, that anyone suggests that FWB is manipulative and using of women in the general sense. FWB is mutually agreed upon, etc. Just like you have said.
The point of the thread is that she is hoping he will change and see her more than a FWB and be a boyfriend, but he has matter of factly stated that he isn't interested in a relationship. If she doesn't put her foot down and stand up for herself, and just hope things change she may very well end up feeling manipulated.
My friend and I aren't really FWB's ... one night happened on the weekend that was not planned ... just happened ... and we are really good friends ... can turn to each other and can talk to each other about anything but are both very attracted to each other. I see his point because it's not that often someone comes along you can confide it and talk to so comfortably. He doesn't want to screw up what we have because neither one of us can be friends with our ex's and we both know that. He is also sort of seeing someone right now. Him and I have always had horrible timing. He was dating someone when I liked him originally and then I met a guy I was with for 8 months ... he ended up single during this time and I wasn't available, and he started seeing someone a couple of weeks before my ex and I broke up this time. The timing has never been there anyway. I respect him way too much to ever let him be my rebound so I don't want a relationship with him right now ... I love our friendship ... he's the best guy! My question was basically for the future ... that if one day the hands did line up and we were both single at the same time ... could I move out of the friendzone? That was the whole point of this thread but I guess it's my fault for not relaying the whole story. Just wanted a general feeling.0 -
FWB from a man's viewpoint:
http://www.therulesrevisited.com/2013/04/men-and-friends-with-benefits.html?m=1
I haven't read this but my opinion of most of the stuff that this guy writes is that it's garbage designed to collect money by convincing timid women that all their fears about men are true and as a result you have to really really make the guy prove himself to you.
This whole notion that a guy in a FWB is taking advantage of and using a woman is a bunch of crap. It's a mutually agreed upon voluntary activity. If a woman wants a full blown relationship but settles for sex the guy is not using her. He is not a jerk. It's not his fault he is a better negotiator. If anything, he is being used. She wants a relationship with him and is using sex to get it. That is a manipulative lie. Quite the foundation for a potential serious relationship.
I agree. If someone is delusional and keeps at it thinking that if they just keep the shindig going, he will turn around and see what's been in front of him all along, well it's just insanity on her part and being dishonest with herself. He's thinking he's just getting free poon which is what FWB do. They just use each other for sex, which is fine as long as both truly understand this. I don't think guys are jerks because of it. He assumes he's banging a mature adult who understands the term FWB.
I am not sure, in the case of this thread, that anyone suggests that FWB is manipulative and using of women in the general sense. FWB is mutually agreed upon, etc. Just like you have said.
The point of the thread is that she is hoping he will change and see her more than a FWB and be a boyfriend, but he has matter of factly stated that he isn't interested in a relationship. If she doesn't put her foot down and stand up for herself, and just hope things change she may very well end up feeling manipulated.
My reply was based on Christine's link to the goofball advice doofus guy and her previous comment:Many time someone will make excuses as to why they can't date you, see you, commit to you. "I work a lot." "I'm so busy." "I don't think I'm ready for a relationship." "I want to be single." But if they meet someone they truly like all those excuses are overcome and they suddenly are able to overcome their "fears."
Tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better about it. But I'll echo what everyone else said...he is just using you to get some. If you want more, you deserve better. Either stand up for yourself or find a new guy who will care about you and love you as a lover, not as a friend you have sex with.0 -
My friend and I aren't really FWB's ... one night happened on the weekend that was not planned ... just happened ... and we are really good friends ... can turn to each other and can talk to each other about anything but are both very attracted to each other. I see his point because it's not that often someone comes along you can confide it and talk to so comfortably. He doesn't want to screw up what we have because neither one of us can be friends with our ex's and we both know that. He is also sort of seeing someone right now. Him and I have always had horrible timing. He was dating someone when I liked him originally and then I met a guy I was with for 8 months ... he ended up single during this time and I wasn't available, and he started seeing someone a couple of weeks before my ex and I broke up this time. The timing has never been there anyway. I respect him way too much to ever let him be my rebound so I don't want a relationship with him right now ... I love our friendship ... he's the best guy! My question was basically for the future ... that if one day the hands did line up and we were both single at the same time ... could I move out of the friendzone? That was the whole point of this thread but I guess it's my fault for not relaying the whole story. Just wanted a general feeling.
I know... people hear "I had sex with my friend" and they automatically impose their own ideas of what that means to the situation. But some of the best relationships start out as friends. As another friend has said to me actions speak louder than words. All of my friends that have heard the full story and all the details of why I believe this man has feelings for me tell me to go for it.
But admittedly, if I was on the other end of this computer and was only receiving bits and pieces of the whole, my advice to someone in this situation might be to get out while you can also.
Raige, because we are friends and others haven't seen our private conversations, I will say this. I think you are right to just stay single for now. Enjoy yourself. Let him figure out what he is doing with that relationship. The future is wide open. But don't turn anyone away waiting for him.0 -
My friend and I aren't really FWB's ... one night happened on the weekend that was not planned ... just happened ... and we are really good friends ... can turn to each other and can talk to each other about anything but are both very attracted to each other. I see his point because it's not that often someone comes along you can confide it and talk to so comfortably. He doesn't want to screw up what we have because neither one of us can be friends with our ex's and we both know that. He is also sort of seeing someone right now. Him and I have always had horrible timing. He was dating someone when I liked him originally and then I met a guy I was with for 8 months ... he ended up single during this time and I wasn't available, and he started seeing someone a couple of weeks before my ex and I broke up this time. The timing has never been there anyway. I respect him way too much to ever let him be my rebound so I don't want a relationship with him right now ... I love our friendship ... he's the best guy! My question was basically for the future ... that if one day the hands did line up and we were both single at the same time ... could I move out of the friendzone? That was the whole point of this thread but I guess it's my fault for not relaying the whole story. Just wanted a general feeling.
I know... people hear "I had sex with my friend" and they automatically impose their own ideas of what that means to the situation. But some of the best relationships start out as friends. As another friend has said to me actions speak louder than words. All of my friends that have heard the full story and all the details of why I believe this man has feelings for me tell me to go for it.
But admittedly, if I was on the other end of this computer and was only receiving bits and pieces of the whole, my advice to someone in this situation might be to get out while you can also.
Raige, because we are friends and others haven't seen our private conversations, I will say this. I think you are right to just stay single for now. Enjoy yourself. Let him figure out what he is doing with that relationship. The future is wide open. But don't turn anyone away waiting for him.
If the right guy came along, I would never turn them away. I'm not waiting for him ... him and I will keep hanging out and what happens happens. He's been a good sounding board because he knows both me and my ex so it's been nice to have someone that knows us both to talk to. This is going to be a summer of adventure for me ... a summer of self discovery. Boys mess that up, lol. I'm still not sure I'll be ready to date again anytime soon ... my ex screwed me up pretty bad.
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Not trying to stir the pot here, but I am a little curious about the reasoning behind this. Does his ex think it is okay to have sex with other women, just not date them? I kind of feel like if he really wanted something he would just date you in private and keep it from his ex instead of just calling it a FWB thing. Also the two of you sound like a little more than just friends if you've discussed all of this. Maybe he'll come around but maybe he's just filling a void.Yeah, I do. There is a lot of history behind all this. I've actually posted about him in this group before. There was timing issues and other stuff in the way. Now it's just his own screwed up issues.
Fine, you twisted my arm. He is from a South American culture and raised Catholic and he married an American woman who is crazy and they got divorced (which is against the way he was brought up) and whenever he tries to move on the ex keeps the kids from him.
But I obviously don't know the whole story and it sounds like you've got it figured out for the most part, but I still feel like if he was really into you he would make it work and none of that other stuff would really matter.0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
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Not trying to stir the pot here, but I am a little curious about the reasoning behind this. Does his ex think it is okay to have sex with other women, just not date them? I kind of feel like if he really wanted something he would just date you in private and keep it from his ex instead of just calling it a FWB thing. Also the two of you sound like a little more than just friends if you've discussed all of this. Maybe he'll come around but maybe he's just filling a void.Yeah, I do. There is a lot of history behind all this. I've actually posted about him in this group before. There was timing issues and other stuff in the way. Now it's just his own screwed up issues.
Fine, you twisted my arm. He is from a South American culture and raised Catholic and he married an American woman who is crazy and they got divorced (which is against the way he was brought up) and whenever he tries to move on the ex keeps the kids from him.
But I obviously don't know the whole story and it sounds like you've got it figured out for the most part, but I still feel like if he was really into you he would make it work and none of that other stuff would really matter.
I don't really know about his ex's feelings. However, he was in a relationship previously and she pulled some very dirty tricks to try and keep him from his kids. Now that he is single, she is civil to him and shares custody as she should. In a way, I suppose it is more like we are dating secretly than FWB, but he has a lot of reservations. It's connecting emotionally that is the challenge. He's shown me how he feels in a lot of ways over the years, but if I push too hard for an emotional connection, then he shuts down.
And let me just add that he never called it FWB, I did. Because that's what I relate it to. We are friends, we have sex, there are no commitments, but there could be more if he can work out this mental block. We only recently began having sex. There has always been sexual tension and we had a difficult time navigating around that. At one point, we had stopped speaking, or at least I stopped speaking to him, and he looked visibly distraught when we were around each other.
There have been lots of things done and said over the years to lead me to my conclusion about his feelings. I used to be very confused about how he felt, but since we began having sex, things have become a lot more clear. Honestly, my feelings are that I don't really have anything to lose. Being in a relationship is much less a priority for me than it has ever been. If it works out, then great, but if not, I'll get over it.0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.
Since you seem to have forgotten, this is a quote from you.I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB. Is it possible to go from FWB to something more?
It's all well and good to "clarify" now and add qualifiers that seem to change every time you post if that helps you feel better. However, every time we respond the only defense is "You guys just don't understand!".0 -
Just as a general rule, it's best to not ask for peoples opinions then get p*ssy when they don't validate your own preconceived notions.
You've clearly made up your mind and are convinced that you are the super special one in a million exception. Good luck, and I'm out.
Not sure who this was directed at, but I'm not the one that asked for opinions. And I really don't see where the OP or I got pissy.
But again, thanks for your input.
Since you seem to have forgotten, this is a quote from you.I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB. Is it possible to go from FWB to something more?
It's all well and good to "clarify" now and add qualifiers that seem to change every time you post if that helps you feel better. However, every time we respond the only defense is "You guys just don't understand!".
Well I'm sorry that I mispoke... no need to get all butt-hurt because I don't want to take your advice.0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow 0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow
K. Well thanks.0 -
I would probably say that you are dating, although he may disagree with that. It's probably best not to get strung up on labels in your situation. It is what it is...complicated. Good luck!And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?0 -
I would probably say that you are dating, although he may disagree with that. It's probably best not to get strung up on labels in your situation. It is what it is...complicated. Good luck!And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
Thank you!0 -
And you know what... How exactly would you describe it if not friends with benefits? Friend with possibilities?
I haven't ever really had a sexual relationship that didn't involve feelings other than a few one night stands in my early 20's so if I described the situation incorrectly then I will take the blame for it, but Kitsune, your hostility and vehemence seems really misdirected.
I assume Kits is simply frustrated since you seem to believe that there are always extenuating circumstances in your situation... Trust me, I get that it's a hard lesson to learn, but the whole "He's Just Not That Into You" theory seems to apply here. Time to be realistic, and not blame semantics or random people online because they don't get your "one in a million" situation, when the problem from our group perspective is that you do not understand it.
Something that might help:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWX95Pmipow
K. Well thanks.
Good luck! We all hope it works out for you, but complicated (good word Roadie) rarely does in the end...0
