The Carnivore Credo
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Seems the "high fat/low carb dairy" rule is at odds with the "macros are not important" rule?
Maybe. Maybe no. I don't see it that way because the concern isn't about their specific macros. It is the same idea as not strictly eating lean meat. Personally, I should just not eat any dairy. It isn't good for me. I just like it too much.0 -
I've been trying to be carnivore but cooking for my family messed it up a bit. I've recommitted myself to it over the past two weeks, and in February I'm going to experiment with not tracking my food.0
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Seems the "high fat/low carb dairy" rule is at odds with the "macros are not important" rule?
Maybe. Maybe no. I don't see it that way because the concern isn't about their specific macros. It is the same idea as not strictly eating lean meat. Personally, I should just not eat any dairy. It isn't good for me. I just like it too much.
That's how I look at it. Just like how the guideline is to seek out the fattiest meats you can, you want to seek out the fattiest dairy you can when you're getting it.0 -
I am up for meativore May. Speaking of which, time for a burger pattie n thanks to above inspiration, sauted mushrooms with butter0
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I'm beginning to cut down on veggies one meal at a time. Now I only have one serving a day, if that. I need to try to see if I can go full on meatavore for a few days, and see if it will mess with my system. Usually in the winter I tend to cut down on veggies, because very few are in season, and eat meat instead.0
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I think "Meativore May" should definitely be a thing here. Of course, there's nothing from stopping people from having a "F---* Flora February" if they don't want to wait.
* F--- = Forget, of course.0 -
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This is really interesting. I may have to give this a go eventually.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »
Who needs chocolate, when you can have bacon roses?
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Mmm, bacon roses ...
This is very interesting. Thanks for explaining more.
With the Wahls influence (for my MS), I'm still leaning toward adding in more veggies at maintenance but I might try this for a short stint.0 -
I think variety is important, too.1
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I think variety is important, too.
Nobody talks about the importance of variety in the amount of smoke we inhale when someone says they don't smoke cigarettes. Nobody says it's important to have variety in the amount of liquids you drink, so you should include beer and liquor into your diet to make sure you stay balanced and healthy. Nobody cautions an engaged person about the importance of variety in their sexual partners.
The appeal of variety is obvious, but the importance of variety is overrated. Wild animals don't have the luxury of variety. Heck, even domesticated animals don't get variety. How many different foods do you feed your dog or cat each day? Do you worry about the lack of variety in their diets?4 -
I think variety is important, too.
The appeal of variety is obvious, but the importance of variety is overrated. Wild animals don't have the luxury of variety. Heck, even domesticated animals don't get variety. How many different foods do you feed your dog or cat each day? Do you worry about the lack of variety in their diets?
No, and I do feel sorry for them. But variety in their diets gives them horrible gas. Dogs don't care that it's the same old stuff. I can share a video from feeding time
Variety doesn't need to mean sweeping variety. If I was restricted to a "just meat" WOE I would burn out. Occasionally, I desire a different texture, flavor, experience. Do I need it? That's a different story entirely. Do I have the willpower to exist eating the same thing over again without cheating? Um, probably not. There is definitely an importance of having variety for the sake of mental well-being. Maybe not for you, but I'm sure I don't stand alone on this.
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P.S. I'm mostly carnivore at this point. The exception is an occasional green leaf salad or cauliflower. Your post actually makes me feel less guilty about the lack of vegetables on my plate.1
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Variety in my diet gives me horrible gas! Ask my wife. She discourages me from going off my plan even if I am tempted, because she doesn't want to deal with the side effects. After a few weeks, you won't miss variety either. Once you have it fixed in your head that "this is what I have to eat right now" and remove the idea that there is an option of something else, you quickly adapt and find that you desire the food you have available to you.
There is a whole world of animals and meats out there. Textures and flavors are abundant. I can have some nice smooth liver, some crunchy cartilage, or some spongy marrow. I have cheese and cream, although not everyone does, and eggs. Those can add a dozens of different options. There's all sorts of delicious birds, fish, shellfish, and other animals. I happen to like lamb, when I am getting bored with beef. Actually, some ground lamb mixed with ground beef makes an amazing burger.
Could everyone be happy with such restricted options? Probably not. The Bear was of the opinion that practically no one could do it. He claimed that almost all would fail because of acculturation and social pressures. Stefansson was more optimistic. He claimed that anyone who could last 6 full months, without cheats, could do it indefinitely. In fact, once they had done it for 6 months, they would almost always be willing/able to go back to it after going off of it. Those that he took on long expeditions, longer than 6 months, always swore they wanted more variety. But, when they got back to the ships and the mixed diet, most found themselves quickly willing to head back out on another expedition where they would be back to a meat-only diet. They also ate a much meat heavier diet for the rest of their days, some abstaining from all foods but meat.
I lean more towards Stefansson, because he had much more experience with people doing the diet for various amounts of time without any cheats (no option to cheat on the expeditions). So, he has a better idea of what time period produced the greatest chance of mental changeover. On top of that, most modern carnivores report a similar experience. The first month is hardest. The next 5 months are difficult. But, somewhere around the sixth month, the desire to go back vanishes. Some try going back (as I have), and find that it offers no real appeal. It's an illusion. Much like I "feel like" I want to smoke cigarettes sometimes. If I actually go and smoke one, it is never as pleasant as I thought. It just makes me feel sick and miserable.
In the end, this way might not be for you. That's why I don't promote it for everyone. You might not need to go this far.0 -
I think variety is important, too.
The appeal of variety is obvious, but the importance of variety is overrated. Wild animals don't have the luxury of variety. Heck, even domesticated animals don't get variety. How many different foods do you feed your dog or cat each day? Do you worry about the lack of variety in their diets?
No, and I do feel sorry for them. But variety in their diets gives them horrible gas. Dogs don't care that it's the same old stuff. I can share a video from feeding time
Variety doesn't need to mean sweeping variety. If I was restricted to a "just meat" WOE I would burn out. Occasionally, I desire a different texture, flavor, experience. Do I need it? That's a different story entirely. Do I have the willpower to exist eating the same thing over again without cheating? Um, probably not. There is definitely an importance of having variety for the sake of mental well-being. Maybe not for you, but I'm sure I don't stand alone on this.
You assume a carnivorous diet is a monotonous diet. I have tons of variety in mine.
I had omelets a few days a couple of weeks ago, with cheese and bacon. Today, I had tuna and left over "drunken apple" pork chop (chops fried in sauteed apples, onions, and hard apple cider for flavor). One day last week, I had ground bison. Another day, I had bacon apple smothered pork chops (bacon roux, sauteed apples, onions, and garlic for flavoring). I've got bison steaks and cod fillets in the freezer, should I choose to partake in them (I'm not a fish fan, so probably not the cod, but it's there if I want it). I also have bratwurst and breakfast sausage in there. A couple of days ago, I had cream cheese sausage dip. I had chevre for a snack a couple of weeks ago, too.
If I go out, I often get things like lamb burgers, omelets I don't normally get, steaks I don't normally have, etc.
How's that for variety?0 -
P.S. I'm mostly carnivore at this point. The exception is an occasional green leaf salad or cauliflower. Your post actually makes me feel less guilty about the lack of vegetables on my plate.
If I cheat, it is almost always starts with a salad. Why? Because we're usually eating out and I hate the fact that I am paying for a side that I won't eat. So, I use the salad as a blue-cheese-dressing and cheese delivery system. I don't do it a lot, because it gives me horrible gas. And, then it leads to me craving other things. And, I am already cramping and feeling bad... so why not eat some of those other things? LOL It's a slippery slope for me.
I have never been a moderation person. When I smoked, it was either nothing or over a pack a day (almost 2 most days). When I drink, it typically falls under the government's description of binge drinking. I don't see the point in having 1 drink! Heck, when I was told I could only have 2 cups (6 oz) of coffee a day, I gave up coffee because 2 cups of coffee is me getting warmed up to start drinking my coffee!
I did end up going back to drinking my "normal" amount of coffee over the years after that (normal = 12-20 cups a day). I learned to avoid 30+ cups of black coffee on an empty stomach. My college diet was frequently little more than bourbon (500-750ml) and 30 cups of coffee. No wonder I had stomach issues. LOL1 -
@Dragonwolf As an aside... go look in the other group (the admin one). There's big news from my personal life that just happened today. I can't post it here, at least not in the current form. But, I am so excited that I need to share it with some people.
Edit: Everyone else, I swear this isn't important and will eventually end up posted somewhere on here. Right now it is news that reveals a whole lot of personal information and details about me that I prefer not be public. I haven't appropriately removed identifying information (not even sure how to do that without it being pointless, yet). If you're curious, the title of the thread is "I have homework" lol... so it's not about anyone here.0 -
I think variety is important, too.
The appeal of variety is obvious, but the importance of variety is overrated. Wild animals don't have the luxury of variety. Heck, even domesticated animals don't get variety. How many different foods do you feed your dog or cat each day? Do you worry about the lack of variety in their diets?
No, and I do feel sorry for them. But variety in their diets gives them horrible gas. Dogs don't care that it's the same old stuff. I can share a video from feeding time
Variety doesn't need to mean sweeping variety. If I was restricted to a "just meat" WOE I would burn out. Occasionally, I desire a different texture, flavor, experience. Do I need it? That's a different story entirely. Do I have the willpower to exist eating the same thing over again without cheating? Um, probably not. There is definitely an importance of having variety for the sake of mental well-being. Maybe not for you, but I'm sure I don't stand alone on this.
@CMYKRGB Your variety junkie parntner in crime here. Love variety in my job, my interests and foods. Having said that, surprisingly less on the food front as the deafault habits are easiest n fastest to fit into life. Right now I am enjoying learning low carb recipes and sauces to add interest to chicken, prawns, tuna, n steak.
@FIT_Goat how does the apple sugar and carb count stack up on that recipe, sounds lovely.1 -
Fit-goat, I have nothing against the carnivore lifestyle...somedays I am 100% carnivore. Out of curiosity, how do you deal with the overall lack of food volume? This issue is what seems most problematic with the carnivore lifestyle as far as satisfaction & overall cost...& lack of bulking agent (stools, although like you said fats can resolve this issue like EVOO & coconut oil/pulp).0
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SamandaIndia wrote: »I think variety is important, too.
The appeal of variety is obvious, but the importance of variety is overrated. Wild animals don't have the luxury of variety. Heck, even domesticated animals don't get variety. How many different foods do you feed your dog or cat each day? Do you worry about the lack of variety in their diets?
No, and I do feel sorry for them. But variety in their diets gives them horrible gas. Dogs don't care that it's the same old stuff. I can share a video from feeding time
Variety doesn't need to mean sweeping variety. If I was restricted to a "just meat" WOE I would burn out. Occasionally, I desire a different texture, flavor, experience. Do I need it? That's a different story entirely. Do I have the willpower to exist eating the same thing over again without cheating? Um, probably not. There is definitely an importance of having variety for the sake of mental well-being. Maybe not for you, but I'm sure I don't stand alone on this.
@CMYKRGB Your variety junkie parntner in crime here. Love variety in my job, my interests and foods. Having said that, surprisingly less on the food front as the deafault habits are easiest n fastest to fit into life. Right now I am enjoying learning low carb recipes and sauces to add interest to chicken, prawns, tuna, n steak.
@FIT_Goat how does the apple sugar and carb count stack up on that recipe, sounds lovely.
If think you mean me with reference to the apples.
I don't actually know. I don't eat the apples, and the alcohol cooks off of the hard cider. I suspect a few grams make their way into the meat, but it's not enough that I particularly care about it, and it'd be really, really hard to determine without getting it analyzed in a lab or something. The roux is arguably the worst in the bacon apple smothered chops, because it has arrowroot powder in it, which is a starch, and because it's made from bacon grease, it's absolutely divine and is part of the "garnish" that I'd actually eat. You're still only talking a couple of tablespoons, though, out of a cup and a half of roux (with about a tablespoon of arrowroot powder), so it still only breaks down to a couple grams. Basically, not enough to matter to me, since my other sources of carbs are the incidental ones in animal sources (namely, the sugars in dairy).Fit-goat, I have nothing against the carnivore lifestyle...somedays I am 100% carnivore. Out of curiosity, how do you deal with the overall lack of food volume? This issue is what seems most problematic with the carnivore lifestyle as far as satisfaction & overall cost...& lack of bulking agent (stools, although like you said fats can resolve this issue like EVOO & coconut oil/pulp).
It's largely a non-issue, really, at least that I've experienced. Bowel movements do happen less frequently, but not in a dysfunctional sort of way. Things are just fine, they just happen less frequently, because there's less waste overall. If you've ever spent a week or more with an exclusively breastfed infant, you'll find it's actually a natural effect of consuming highly-absorbed food.
The hunger/full feelings change. You get full of steak and it's more along the lines of losing the desire to eat, as opposed to feeling the stomach stretching. I personally find that it's easier on the stomach and digestion that way. Just like with standard LCHF, there's appetite modulation in play as long as you listen to your hunger cues. I even have a day where my Fitbit logged that I burned about twice as many calories as I do when sedentary (we're talking like 4000+ burn total for the day), and I disregarded calories until the end of the day and just ate to satisfaction. When I logged it in the evening, it turned out that I could have eaten another 500-1000 calories if I wanted to. On more normal days, I don't tend to eat until close to noon, and if I eat a big lunch, I only even have a desire for a small dinner.0 -
Fit-goat, I have nothing against the carnivore lifestyle...somedays I am 100% carnivore. Out of curiosity, how do you deal with the overall lack of food volume? This issue is what seems most problematic with the carnivore lifestyle as far as satisfaction & overall cost...& lack of bulking agent (stools, although like you said fats can resolve this issue like EVOO & coconut oil/pulp).
It has already been said, but there are two ways to deal with lack of volume. If you absolutely enjoy eating until you are "stuffed" then you might end up eating only once or twice a day. Not because that is how you control the amount of calories (remember that we don't count those), but because you really load up at that meal (or two) and you just aren't hungry and won't think about eating that often. I find it very eating to slip into two or even one meal a day. If anything, the problem for me becomes the fact that there's not enough space in my stomach for the amount of calories that I need to, for it to get all in during one meal. It is very hard to eat 2500+ calories of meat in a single sitting.
The other way, which is natural, is that you grow accustomed to eating less volume. You fill up a lot faster. There were times, in my veggie eating days, when I could handle a 24 oz steak with a salad and another side. As a strict carnivore, it is rare that I manage even just 24 oz alone. I have gone out and ordered a 16 oz steak, thinking I would devour the whole thing, and left with a doggie bag.
As for volume on the other end. It's dramatically reduced. There's just not a huge amount of waste being produced. The food you eat tends to be nearly fully absorbed. I don't go as much, but I go often enough and have no problems going. Sometimes, it's not very much, but it's never uncomfortable or painful. If anything, I have fewer issues on that end than before.0 -
Added a bit about alcohol and sweeteners. I think this is almost done. I can't think of much else to add.0
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I could do this .... as long as I was still allowed coffee :-D0
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I am so glad I have read this post - I have found I am more satisfied when I have carnivorous days and was always worried I wasn't getting the right nutrients and that I was missing out if I didn't have vege's - have never been much of a veggie lover anyway but fatty meats I have always adored - I am going to stop worrying about trying to eat a more varied diet and get back to eating the stuff I love to eat without stressing I am missing nutrients4
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Love this thread. One of my things to overcome has been "no sides". I make a normal meal here at the ranch and I just don't eat the pasta, potato, rice, bread side dishes. I often make salad and I really like salad but I find I make it more now because I feel weird eating 4 ounces of meat with tons of butter and nothing else. Last night I made chicken and dumplings in a cream and flour base for Rowdy and I ate left over beef stir fry. I ate the meat out and left the veggies for the pups and pig. So I guess I'm getting better at that!2
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bump for later
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I have seen benefit in this woe for myself, though I only lasted about 5 days. I lost a noticeable amount of weight /inches, but had 0 stomach pain. That is huge for me! I am fodmap sensitive and think that probably contributes to issues eating veggies. And I agree with Goat. I absolutely cannot do moderation. Though, with meat it was easy. I simply lost the desire to eat. Which was almost sad.... that being said I am trying to gather the testicular fortitude to start it again, because I cannot argue with the results2
