The Obesity Code and Radical Acceptance
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I'm heading out the door now for my first 30 min. session of personal training. I'm hoping I can communicate my goals of just slowly building strength. I must admit, I'm afraid of getting hurt. Wish me luck!6
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Roseygirl1 wrote: »I am discovering just how little food I actually need (compared to how much I was eating before.)
Love it. Great discovery.4 -
(...) However, I found the book mostly unhelpful and incredibly discouraging. If you are discouraged as well, I want to offer my take on a few of his thoughts:
Helpful
-- “However, moderate consumption of red wine does not raise insulin or impair insulin sensitivity, and therefore may be enjoyed. 16 Up to two glasses a day is not associated with major weight gain17 and may improve insulin sensitivity. 18 The alcohol itself, even from beer, seems to have minimal effects on insulin secretion or insulin resistance. It is sometimes said that you get fat from the foods you eat with the alcohol rather than from the alcohol itself. There may be some truth to that, although the evidence is sparse.”
If your main goal is to lose weight, I have bad news for you concerning alcohol. The body perceives ethanol as poison. So while the body is busy metabolizing alcohol intake, it won't burn fat from storage.Unhelpful
-- He mentions that he grew up in the 1970s. I have no idea how he got the idea that snacking began in that decade.
I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s. We did plenty of snacking. My kindergarten served a snack of Oreos and milk every single day.
This is your experience. In my country people weren't snacking much up until the last decade or so. I don't see how this invalidates his book full of references to studies backing up his main point: Insulin is a driver of weight gain.-- He states that, “all foods raise insulin to some degree” and “If all foods raise insulin, then the only way for us to lower it is to completely abstain from food.” (...) but in my mind he has not supported his case. (...)
-- I found his statement regarding plateaus to be incredibly discouraging (...)
All diets plans end and then life begins. If you keep thinking about dieting as just a phase, then you'll keep on getting discouraged and unhappy. This is exactly the gist OP is talking about, IMO: That eating for health and general wellbeing is a much more valuable prize than losing and regaining weight. People IRL keep asking me how I lost the weight and also how I'm maintaining "so easily". I smile and say "it's hard work, but it works for me". If they're really interested to know more, I'll provide more details, but most instantly recognize they probably aren't willing to go there. We each have to find our own way of how to life our lives.
Hi Sunny_Bunny_. I appreciate your comments. Since Dr Fung bases his views of fasting on his belief that all foods raise insulin, I mentioned the books by Eades and Atkins to support another view of whether all foods raise insulin, not to promote their diets or views of fasting. My best to you.Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »All foods do raise insulin, but fat is so insignificant it's not much of a stretch to say it "does nothing" and protein can raise insulin significantly in someone with insulin resistance. His main approach is fasting. So it makes absolute sense that he's considering even the tiny insulin responses from fat and potentially higher response from protein. The other plans @janettles is mentioning aren't fasting plans. The idea in those is only significant carb restriction. Fasting is much more than just carb restriction.
I don't really understand the comparison... this book is just discussing another way. Fasting is known to bring on very dramatic and quick improvement of insulin resistance. I don't believe either of the other books are targeting that exact issue.
It's not Dr. Fung's "belief". It's a metabolic fact that some food types raise insulin more than others. To my knowledge it's referenced in Phinney and Volek's "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living": As we all know processed carbs raise insulin the most, but some proteins can raise insulin up to 58% and fat is 10%. (Whey isolate is one of the worst). For people with metabolic syndrome, the basal insulin level is already constantly high. Any food will add even more insulin on top of that. If someone keeps eating and snacking all the time, there is no time for the insulin to go down. High insulin prevents the body from UNLOCKING fat from adipose tissue (lipolysis). I will say that I don't agree with everything Dr. Fung says. No-one is right all the time
Dr. Jason Fung - 'Therapeutic Fasting - Solving the Two-Compartment Problem'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIuj-oMN-Fk
Please remember that most of Dr. Fung's patients are the already very ill, often morbidly obese people. The people with years of Diabetes Mellitus and many boluses of insulin. The people on kidney dialysis. The desperate. You may not be that desperate. His methods may or may not apply to you.
Another approach than fasting is to try eat according to Marty Kendall's insulin index:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/the-insulin-index/
In the 2ketodudes's podcast (shoutout to whoever tipped us about that! great podcast!):
Not sure if it was the diabetes or insulin episode, but if I remember correctly a study showed that in a normal metabolism the body reduces insulin 3 hours post-prandial (PP), but it ONLY lowers to basal level after 10 hours!!! By the time people have eaten and absorbed dinner, it's only a couple of hours of prime time fat burning before breakfast. Most people go into ketosis during the late stage of sleep. Could it be this is why most of use actually burn the most from storage fat during sleep ?
Type2Diabetes
http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=8
Insulin
http://2ketodudes.com/show.aspx?episode=3
This is why I consistently talk about "fat loss" rather than "weight loss". Because at the end of the day, you want to lose fat from STORED fat, not just keep burning easy available energy in the bloodstream that happens to be floating around. In other words, if you keep eating very often, the body will choose the easiest option: that is to burn the glucose in blood, mobilize glycogen from liver and muscle AND only after all of this...the body has no other choice but to burn some from your bum. For most members of MFP, this is called "a caloric deficit".
I wish you the best on your journey.
Edit: some minor typos, formatting and words. Not meanings.5 -
I think I might continue to share my experiences and experiments here in this thread, since my metabolic status is the driving force behind those experiments. Hopefully, this will help others in my position.
So here's the quick and dirty on the start point for me: 61 years old, autoimmune disease, thyroid cancer (on levothyroxine hormone replacement), cervical spine fusions from C3 to C7, post-Lyme disease, ongoing significant stressors---aging parents and special needs adult children.
Got a pre-diabetes diagnosis, at 61, at annual physical, not that it should have been a surprise given my big belly. My diet wasn't bad by SAD standards, but bread and potatoes were regular residents of my plate, sugary "comfort" foods too-frequent visitors, and just eating too much and too often contributed to my condition, along with stress.
I read fast. So I've read THE OBESITY CODE, the new Atkins book, THE BIG FAT LIE so far, along with working my way through the links on the launch page here, and others sent to me privately. This information-gathering has led me to make the following changes:
1. I set my carbs to work out to about 20 net carbs----that means the total carb count minus the fiber grams.
2. While I will not go white-knuckle hungry (like I felt in my WW days), I do aim to decrease how often I eat in a day, and how long my overnight fast is. So far, a week in, this is working out well, I do not eat past 7pm, I drink black coffee in the morning, and I let my hunger guide me as to when to break my fast. This usually turns out to be around 11am to 1pm, a 16 to 18 hour overnight fast.
3. I bought a glucose meter, and I am testing my blood sugar (in a random, unsystematic way) to see what's happening there. My fasting blood sugar from the lab was 104 mg%, and at home, this past week, it's been going down every morning. This morning (Day 8 of LCHF) it's 84mg%.
4. I have begun slowly and carefully working on getting stronger with a personal trainer 30 min. twice a week.
5. I added Vit. D, a multivitamin, and magnesium oil (topical) to my daily do. (My vit. d level doc tested was only just at the minimum level above deficient.)
6. I make sure to have homemade bone broth available.
So far, I feel pretty good. I have surges of energy that are really startling, and I've had only a couple of episodes of "hitting the wall" and needing either salty bone broth or food.
The best thing about all this is that I am developing a new confidence in my body. I feel that I am working *with* my body instead of against it. I imagine my stuffed fat cells gracefully feeding me since I've called on them to supply energy and they are now my friends.
So far, so good.
Rosey18 -
Brava!
I'd like a case of your sparkling, refreshing attitude. (Happy to pay full price.)6 -
Good luck, Rosey.0
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Last night, my husband and I had dinner with my parents at their independent living facility. They eat dinner in a very nice dining room. I had a small salad with olive oil and vinegar, 4 oz. of corned beef, and about 2 cups of cooked cabbage. I had planned for a small serving of Fiber One cereal and almond milk (1/2 c. each) at home afterward, all within my carb and calorie budget.
But it turned out to be a very anxiety-provoking evening. After dinner, we needed to talk about my parents' final wishes----they mentioned a while back wanting to change which cemetery to lie in final rest. It's complicated, involving potentially moving the remains of my sister from a cemetery in NJ to the one near where we all live now in NYS. Then my parents asked me all kinds of questions about how children are doing, with the implication that there is more I can or should be doing for them. (There isn't.)
So I came home and had twice as much cereal and almond milk as I intended, plus a hunk of cheddar cheese. It was, in emotional tone, a binge. I was very anxious and angry at having been made anxious. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to sleep. So I turned on the TV (watched Major Crimes, not exactly soothing) and ate. I was in the binge (small as it was) before I had a chance to consider other actions.
At age 61, I would like to dance with this old, old behavior in such a way as to evolve. It's a spiritual issue for me. Framing it so, I can invite myself to notice when I am triggered and to find other, kinder means of responding. A cup of hot tea, a magnesium bath, meditation, journal writing----a timeout to be with myself and be kind. It's been a long time since I had a binge, and I was unprepared for it. The stresses are only going to continue as my parents age, and one of them is left behind and my children's needs are ongoing. So the only thing I *can* control is how I respond to these stresses.
Tonight is my first low carb dinner party, two other couples will be joining my husband and me. I'm planning a cheese board, raw veggies, almonds and olives for appetizers; marinated grilled sliced pork; grilled mushrooms, and sauteed spinach with pine nuts. Someone is bringing a cake---it's an anniversary celebration for a friend---and I will take a piece and poke at it with my fork to avoid any questions and not call attention to myself at a celebratory moment.
Oh, and I choose to partake of one glass of red wine, understanding this is not a low carb choice. I'm doing the diet in order to live, and once in a while, a glass of red wine makes a life worth living!
Rosey
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Binges happen. As binges go, it didn't sound too bad. I'm sure it helped writing about it this morning. You have been making some wonderful changes in your life. I love how you have decided to be gentle with yourself. Keep on with your plan and don't be too hard on yourself about the binge.
Because you mentioned it earlier, I have been reading The Obesity Code and have found it to be very interesting.
Good luck with your cake poking!!!
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Been there Miss Rosie. The aging parents. The difficult subjects and decisions. The assisted living environment with two parents who made the choice to be there when they were both diagnosed with terminal cancer the same freaking week in April of 2006. The decision maker. The POA. The Executrix. Even the bit about the deceased sister and cemetery plot arrangements. 9 years later, your post has me in tears. Oh, the sadness. Forgive your binge. Stay mindful. Be kind to yourself. You are carrying a huge load. 6 -
Been there Miss Rosie. The aging parents. The difficult subjects and decisions. The assisted living environment with two parents who made the choice to be there when they were both diagnosed with terminal cancer the same freaking week in April of 2006. The decision maker. The POA. The Executrix. Even the bit about the deceased sister and cemetery plot arrangements. 9 years later, your post has me in tears. Oh, the sadness. Forgive your binge. Stay mindful. Be kind to yourself. You are carrying a huge load.
Thank you for this. I'm sorry you had that path to walk, but know that your compassion comforted another soul today.
Rosey2 -
Great dinner party! The cake-poking really worked. I snuck back over to the cheese plate appetizer and snagged another mouthful of triple-creme cheese. It was really melty after being at room temp for 3 hours and was
DE-licious! Who needs cake? Easiest time of my life passing up cake----maybe even a first! "My health comes first." On *my* birthday, it will be ok to eat cake, not everybody else's.7 -
I just finished reading The Obesity Code and it resonated very deeply with me based on my own journey with weight gain and loss and Type 2 Diabetes. It also pained me because I spent many years being verbally abused by doctors and given insulin and sulfonylurea drugs, told to eat a low-fat, high-carb diet, consistently gaining weight, and told I was not following their protocol. That ended in 2009 when I just by chance started doing the Atkins Diet to avoid gastric bypass surgery and lost almost 100 lbs and stopped all medication but Metformin within weeks. I stopped Metformin a few months later. I maintained the weight loss for just over a year and then noticed that I would periodically begin to retain water, so I began to water fast for a few days at a time after each incident until I no longer felt swollen.
Like the OP, I am here to heal. I am a metabolic mess and I do not know the answers. I just know that I feel best when I eat fat, meat, water, and salt and when I take a break from eating.
I was curious in the book in the Solutions chapter in Step 3 : Moderate Your Protein Consumption (p. 230) as to why he is advocating limiting protein to 20-30% of total calories citing, "Excessively high-protein diets are not advisable and are quite difficult to follow, since protein is rarely eaten in isolation...thus...are usually quite unpalatable" as his reason along with them being difficult to comply with. I do not see any research supporting this.
Just curious about others opinions. Some days my diet is mostly protein, others mostly fat. I do eat carbohydrates occasionally but that is willful.
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You are doing wonderfully. Nice job. 1
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you should eat a high fiber diet with carbs that are high in fiber and high protein high fat while doing a low carb ketogenic diet and intermediate fasting0
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thats what I started doing0
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@Roseygirl1 it would appear that you are on the right track here. One of the take home ideas from a LCHF convention I just attended was that small changes gradually applied can be helpful. After all, we didn't get to where we are now suddenly but gradually, over a long period of time. I find that I can incorporate many helpful ideas if I allow myself time to incorporate them into my practice. Thanks for the great insight shown in this thread.1
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GregStone2 wrote: »you should eat a high fiber diet with carbs that are high in fiber and high protein high fat while doing a low carb ketogenic diet and intermediate fasting
Many people are doing LCHF in different ways. I am glad that a high fiber diet, high fat and high protein is working for you. For some it doesn't. I have been told to reduce protein a little because I was excreting it. I don't have a source but I think excessively high protein can be hard on the kidneys. And for those that are diabetic, excessive protein can be metabolized to raise your blood sugar. Maybe others, @Sunny_Bunny_ ? more knowledgeable can weigh in here.
@roseygirl1 the binge is understandable. I too have managed aging parents and difficult conversations. And although I wish they were still with me, I am not sure that I would wish to repeat those difficult times. What struck me about your post was the self awareness. Good for you. I think next time, and you are right, there will a next time of stress, you will make different choices to be kind to yourself. Your dinner party sounds fantastic! And cake poking sounds like a great strategy too! I would count the binge, the dinner party and the cake poking as a win.2 -
GregStone2 wrote: »thats what I started doingGregStone2 wrote: »you should eat a high fiber diet with carbs that are high in fiber and high protein high fat [/b]while doing a low carb ketogenic diet and intermediate fasting
I don't know how high fiber, high protein, high fat ketogenic would work. Typically when you say you eat a high (whatever) diet, you eat more of a certain macro than all others, thereby only one of them is high while the others are low or moderate. This is a very confusing statement.
And fiber can do a lot of harm to the system. It's another one of those things we have always been told we "need" so much of that upon going without we can realize how much better off we typically are...
I was always told to eat high fiber since I had no gall bladder and IBS. Back then, I actually felt like it helped. But going keto was like a light came on and I realized I felt better with little of it and then going carnivore really made a difference finally getting rid of the last symptoms of digestive issues while getting only traces of fiber on occasion.2 -
@Roseygirl1 it would appear that you are on the right track here. One of the take home ideas from a LCHF convention I just attended was that small changes gradually applied can be helpful. After all, we didn't get to where we are now suddenly but gradually, over a long period of time. I find that I can incorporate many helpful ideas if I allow myself time to incorporate them into my practice. Thanks for the great insight shown in this thread.
This is a very helpful attitude, thank you for sharing that insight. It helps with all or nothing thinking, which can derail good efforts for lack of being perfect. One thing I know from dealing with stress is that excessive pushing can backfire. It's a delicate dance between dedication and obsession, with mindfulness and awareness being the best mediator between the two.
Today I spend most of the day with my son with autism, making up his meds, taking him to his therapist, and also checking on my bipolar son. I usually take my son to an Indian buffet for lunch, his favorite. So my plan is to have some raw salad veggies and tandoori chicken, making up the fat at home with some decaf coffee with coconut oil and ghee.
Cheeseburgers and leftover sauteed spinach (from party) for dinner!
Here's to poking-a-cake:
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My home page tells me that I have logged in for 14 days in a row.
I've lost about 5 pounds on the scale since doing so. I weigh myself every morning and try not to get too attached to the number it shows, I am doing this for the same reason I am logging my foods, counting my carbs, testing my blood sugar, and watching my waist measurement: as objective markers of the effects of my interventions on health.
But there are other things I notice as well: raging hunger is tamed. I don't crave sweets, can easily let them (and bread and pasta) go by without blinking. The past two nights I have slept better, in spite of increased stress with my kids and parents. And I clearly, clearly, clearly am watching my belly go down.
So I am changing the way I think of my efforts. It used to be all about losing weight. Now, I am seeing fat loss as a side effect, not a goal in itself. I tell myself that I am repairing a damaged metabolism, and that a healthier metabolism will right the wrongs. I find myself patting my belly with affection, cheering on my fat cells as they provide energy for me in response to my low carb, gently calorie restricted, hunger responsive meals.
Wishing everybody a good day!
Rosey7 -
It used to be all about losing weight. Now, I am seeing fat loss as a side effect, not a goal in itself. I tell myself that I am repairing a damaged metabolism, and that a healthier metabolism will right the wrongs.
This!! And I am learning so much about my body and what it needs for health. Thank you all for being engaged in this mutual struggle in a positive manner!2 -
@Roseygirl1 you are such an inspiringly positive person.1
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@Roseygirl1:I, too, as a senior (older than you, I might add) have struggled in the past with the "parents" issue. While I struggled with it at times I was always glad that they lived long and productive lives and that many are not as fortunate as I was to have those family issues. You seem to have the right approach to your life, as it is at the moment, and taking it slowly but ever forward, is a good approach. Cheers!0
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So today I had my second personal training session. It was scheduled for 8:30am and I did it without eating breakfast, as I wasn't hungry when I woke up. I walked briskly for 30 minutes and then we did the strength training for another 30 minutes. It was just the right amount of challenging: I enjoyed it, I worked really hard, but I didn't get hurt and my muscles feel pleasantly sore. Which is exactly right for where I am right now.
I'm HUNGRY today! I suppose I asked my body to do more than it is used to, and in a fasted state. I will go over my set calories today because I refuse to white-knuckle true hunger. (It's all about disciplined kindness.) Being careful with carbs today in the face of the HUNGRIES!
Rosey2 -
OMG, I am SO not hungry!
I walked for 30 minutes today. I ate a lot of fat for lunch: sour cream with almonds, nothing else! I'm making dinner but just barely hungry, won't eat a lot. This is AMAZEBALLS!
Woo hoo! So *this* is what they are talking about!
Rosey8 -
RE the 70s and snacking, I grew up in the 60s and my family as well as all my friends families at 3 meals a day. There were no snacks except possibly Saturday night. Usually this was a cereal bowl of popcorn and perhaps a shared bottle (16 oz back then) of regular soda. So about 4 oz of soda. If you complained of feeling hungry before supper, it was "you'll spoil your appetite". This was just normal eating. Dishes were done and no one ate again until the next meal.
At school, there were no snacks except kindergarteners who got milk and a graham cracker for a snack midmorning before their nap. Kindergarten was a half day. No one starved. Poor grades weren't blamed on lack of food at home. Funny how test scores continue to drop and yet we are providing more and more food to kids at school (breakfast, lunches and now, in our area, we are providing afterschool snacks and even box lunches for kids to take home and eat. Ok, off my soapbox.4 -
RE the 70s and snacking, I grew up in the 60s and my family as well as all my friends families at 3 meals a day. There were no snacks except possibly Saturday night. Usually this was a cereal bowl of popcorn and perhaps a shared bottle (16 oz back then) of regular soda. So about 4 oz of soda. If you complained of feeling hungry before supper, it was "you'll spoil your appetite". This was just normal eating. Dishes were done and no one ate again until the next meal.
At school, there were no snacks except kindergarteners who got milk and a graham cracker for a snack midmorning before their nap. Kindergarten was a half day. No one starved. Poor grades weren't blamed on lack of food at home. Funny how test scores continue to drop and yet we are providing more and more food to kids at school (breakfast, lunches and now, in our area, we are providing afterschool snacks and even box lunches for kids to take home and eat. Ok, off my soapbox.
While, my kids have long grown up, (in their 30's) I now and then read our local paper and see what kids have for breakfast and lunch. It is all cheap carb laden food.1 -
There's a very good set of visuals about children's lunches around the world. Here it is:
huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/25/school-lunches-around-the-world_n_6746164.html1 -
OMG, I am at a loss for words, very unsettling.0
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You still see that "food pyramid", "healthy plate" influence on all of them but at least the other countries have actual food and not food products...2
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