Zero Carber-give me your meat!
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Kirstie155 wrote: »Just thinking out loud here, folks.
Day 19 of strict ZC, feel like I might actually be sick with a cold. I've been fighting it all week and just feeling terrible with a sore throat every morning and just so tired and unmotivated. By the end of the day my mental motivation returns, and last night I vacuumed and put Christmas decorations away, put the living room furniture back to its rightful post Christmas tree spots. Trying to make it to the weekend before I really get sick so I don't have to use any sick leave this early in the year.
I know you all are going to tell me not to freak out and trust the process, its too early, throw away the scale, ect. but...The scale is going UP and I'm starting to freak a bit about it, and it is looking like for the past 3 weeks I have less than a pound loss total. I started ZC on 1/8/17
It's just very frustrating because I haven't strayed from ZC even once, and am doing a weightlifting routine 2x a week. I have easily 50#-70# to lose, so can I just get a few vanity pounds on the scale please? Over the last few days I did eat some prepared liverwurst and cream cheese. Last night I had salmon and shrimp, I have had a cup of coffee with half and half once or twice a week, and I did restart taking prenatal vitamins-organic and all from veggies no artificial ingredients in these vitamins (I will be trying to conceive sometime in the next 6 months.) For those that are interested and think this may be the cause, my TOM ended one week ago.
Maybe I should just go with chicken thighs and beef for awhile? I'm mixing up my foods because I have a lot of options in my freezer, and one of my goals was to eat all the meat from the freezer. I have ground beef, steaks, porkloins, chicken thighs, a whole duck, shrimp. I have some chicken thighs and sirloins defrosting now, and was going to make The Bears chicken recipe.
Feeling frustrated and tired
First, under 30 days is not long enough to cause significant stress when you make such a big change.
I don't know exactly what you are eating, but here are just a few thoughts for you:- If you are looking to lose weight, you do not need to eat any "fat bombs" or hit some mystical fat macro. The fat on your body that you are burning will make up for any shortage there.
- One struggle I have is staying away from less satiating ZC foods such as pork rinds and bacon. Both have a lot of calories but don't fill me up at all. I could literally eat 2000 calories of either without blinking. It is not that calories don't matter, they just don't matter the same way. It is possible to gain weight with any WOE if not careful about food choices.
- For some, dairy can cause a stall. For others, there are other foods. As for the foods you mentioned that you have in your freezer, I doubt any of those would cause a stall. However, use of an elimination diet might be helpful where you cut something out and see if it has an effect.
- Hopefully, you took measurements at the beginning because you may stay even on weight, but have that weight show differently. I went through about a 6-8 week period where my weight did not change, but my body fat percentage dropped by about 5%.
Hang in there!2 -
Great points by @cstehansen
Also, it's entirely possible to gain weight BUT get smaller. I did it without exercise. Seems even more likely with your routine.
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10353600/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-stall#latest2 -
Thanks for all the words of encouragement everyone. Today is day 20, and yesterday I just ate and ate and thought for sure the scale was going to go back up. I wanted chocolate. Instead I ate cheeseburgers for breakfast and lunch, and had a steak followed by 2 of the bears chicken thighs-more food than I needed but dang that chicken recipe is great! This morning the scale said 198.6
Stupid scale.
I did not take measurements, but did take progress photos, and am planning on eating mostly beef or lamb. I'm not eating much cheese and really no cream at the moment (I tend to binge drink the cream) less chicken and liverwurst. Beef and water, thats what the experts say, right? I had steak for breakfast, yum!
Thanks Sunny for the link to your post, I have read it before and it is so helpful. Great reminder.0 -
Yeah! Sometimes the scale is our friend and sometimes we hate the thing and want to chuck it out the window...
My weights this week: Tues - 227, Wed - 222.5, Thur - 225.3, Fri - 223.2 (wth ?!?!)...
Still staying at carnivore levels on carbs (only carbs from dairy for the most part - did have minor carbs from a little bit of spaghetti sauce last night). Only real difference between Thursday and Friday was less cheese Thursday night than Wednesday night. Might have to keep an eye on that and see if I can control my cheese habits...
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Wow, that is a great week! Keep up the great work!
Today I had sirloin for breakfast, skipped lunch. .75# ribeye and one bear chicken thigh for dinner. Stuffed. 0 -
So I've lost 4.2 # since my post on Thursday.
200.8 to 196.6 *shrugs* since then I have eaten minimal cheese and about 80% of my food has been steak the rest has been chicken thighs. Once the batch of chicken is gone I will eat just the beef for awhile. My stomach has still been upset non stop, so I am cutting down on the fat I eat and not adding extra to my food.
I made my best pan fried steak today! I like a nice sear on the steak, and have been failing at getting the crust without overcooking the steak. Today I used a steak iron that I forgot I had, and that made all the difference at getting the maximum steak surface contact. Yum!!!5 -
Kirstie155 wrote: »Just thinking out loud here, folks.
Day 19 of strict ZC, feel like I might actually be sick with a cold. I've been fighting it all week and just feeling terrible with a sore throat every morning and just so tired and unmotivated. By the end of the day my mental motivation returns, and last night I vacuumed and put Christmas decorations away, put the living room furniture back to its rightful post Christmas tree spots. Trying to make it to the weekend before I really get sick so I don't have to use any sick leave this early in the year.
I know you all are going to tell me not to freak out and trust the process, its too early, throw away the scale, ect. but...The scale is going UP and I'm starting to freak a bit about it, and it is looking like for the past 3 weeks I have less than a pound loss total. I started ZC on 1/8/17
It's just very frustrating because I haven't strayed from ZC even once, and am doing a weightlifting routine 2x a week. I have easily 50#-70# to lose, so can I just get a few vanity pounds on the scale please? Over the last few days I did eat some prepared liverwurst and cream cheese. Last night I had salmon and shrimp, I have had a cup of coffee with half and half once or twice a week, and I did restart taking prenatal vitamins-organic and all from veggies no artificial ingredients in these vitamins (I will be trying to conceive sometime in the next 6 months.) For those that are interested and think this may be the cause, my TOM ended one week ago.
Maybe I should just go with chicken thighs and beef for awhile? I'm mixing up my foods because I have a lot of options in my freezer, and one of my goals was to eat all the meat from the freezer. I have ground beef, steaks, porkloins, chicken thighs, a whole duck, shrimp. I have some chicken thighs and sirloins defrosting now, and was going to make The Bears chicken recipe.
Feeling frustrated and tired
It could be exercise too. I was doing a pretty serious weight routine a few years ago. My weight loss had slowed a lot and I was concentrating more on lifting than losing. Then I had a back injury (burst disc and some paralysis) so I need to stop all exercise for a while. I went from working out 60-90 minutes per day to nothing, and I lost close to 10lbs in a couple of weeks. Whoosh. My guess is my muscles finally had a chance to recover and gave up their water weight.0 -
I tried this. Meat has no fiber. I didn't go to the bathroom very much. Add a bunch of veggies cooked in fat. It really helped me on all fronts. I stay away from starchy veggies. Some folks may be able to do only meat protein, but I can't. Also, the body turns extra protein into glucose which raises your insulin. I was 270 November 28 and I am 235 today. I've been LCHF for a while. For me increasing veggies and reducing meat protein, and abstaining from alcohol, was the key. I hope! Everyone is different. Good Luck on your journey and don't give up!2
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I tried this. Meat has no fiber. I didn't go to the bathroom very much. Add a bunch of veggies cooked in fat. It really helped me on all fronts. I stay away from starchy veggies. Some folks may be able to do only meat protein, but I can't. Also, the body turns extra protein into glucose which raises your insulin. I was 270 November 28 and I am 235 today. I've been LCHF for a while. For me increasing veggies and reducing meat protein, and abstaining from alcohol, was the key. I hope! Everyone is different. Good Luck on your journey and don't give up!
It's really not as simple as that. It's repeated all over the internet as being exactly as you stated but it's just not that simple. You're also overlooking that eating all animal based diet doesn't mean you're actually eating more protein. I average about 75-90, which is the same as when I ate veggies. Eliminating 20g carbs in the form of vegetables is 80 calories... it's not something I need to make up somewhere else. I don't eat extra meat to make up for a measly 80 calories of veggies. There's no need. I just don't eat the veggies and continue to eat exactly the same otherwise. It's really only a change in that I don't have an upset stomach anymore.
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Also, it should be stated that "I didn't go to the bathroom very much" is not the same thing as being constipated. Meat is highly digestible and the amount of waste does go down. Reduced volume and frequency isn't the same thing as being constipated.
Somewhere, I think in the "Carnivore Credo" thread, I address the extra protein argument. In many cases, swapping out your vegetable calories for something like 2-3 eggs won't up your protein significantly. It might even reduce it and increase your fat percentage. That doesn't even begin to address the "turns to glucose" argument, which isn't usually accurate.
Protein, on its own, raises insulin. That's not a bad thing. Insulin is critical for moving amino acids into lean tissue and maintaining/building muscle. It's not just for making you fat. You shouldn't worry too much about this, in the absence of high carbs. Extra protein isn't always turned into glucose in the same way that extra lumber isn't automatically turned into houses. Protein is turned into glucose when the demand for glucose is high, lumber is turned into houses when the demand for houses is high. It doesn't just happen because there is extra supply sitting around.5 -
I'm late to the party! I apologize for not chiming in here before now!
I've also been ZC since the Meativore May challenge in 2015. I do have cheese, and HWC daily, and I will have mayo, mustard, or ketchup. I use the regular types, when I do, because I hate sugar free stuff (artificial sweetners seem to be worse for me than sugar!)! The health benefits (almost zero fibromyalgia pain, decreased migraines, cervical dystonia nearly resolved, chronic allergies disappeared....) are the reason I will continue ZC!
I've had some health challenges since September (ulcer in my small intestine that had eroded into a birth defect in my large intestine!) that had me on liquid and soft foods (not conducive to ZC). The pain has returned with a vengeance, but I haven't gained any weight (don't understand this but am thankful!). I've been at maintenance since last summer,so weight loss hasn't been a goal since then. Somehow the carbs haven't done anything more to me than the pain, and terrible (OMG!! TERRIBLE BAD!!!) gas! I'm 3 days away from being able toresume ZC, and I'm so ready!
Anyone interested in what ZC can do for them should try it. No, its not for everyone. Nothing works for all! You may be surprised by what you see!3 -
There is so much misinformation on the Internet it's bizarre. If you want to only eat meat and cheese fine. Knock yourself out. I'd like it, but get sick and sick of it after a while. For me personally, too much of these and probably anything is inflammatory. To the point that both times that I ate mostly meat I became severely constipated. Not just going less for sure. And I ended up with diverticulitis. I'm all about LCHF and shared what I did to improve it for me. If you are eating only meat and have digestive issues maybe it's what you're eating.
If you want to look at the information I use, check out the diet doctor.com and read the Obesity Code. These guys surely do intend a diet heavy in certain vegetables and all the meat and fat you want until your full.
Highest weight = 277
Lowest weight = 170 (hit this 4 times in 30 years)
Current weight = 2350 -
There is so much misinformation on the Internet it's bizarre.
I think we both would agree with this statement, although I suspect we'll strongly disagree as to what is misinformation and what isn't.
To each their own. If you don't want to eat a plant-free diet, then don't. We'll respect your diet choices, and hopefully you'll respect ours.3 -
I do. Knock yourself out. Advice is not gospel here either way. Just be careful what your read on the Internet. It might make people sick!0
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@Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.
@Karlottap: did you see any change in your cervical dystonia when you had to begin eating soft foods to include carbs?0 -
@Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.
@Karlottap: did you see any change in your cervical dystonia when you had to begin eating soft foods to include carbs?
My understanding as to why protein in a medically therapeutic ketogenic diet is to allow a larger portion of the diet to be comprised of fat for the purpose of higher ketone production since it's the concentration of blood ketones that makes the diet therapeutic in those cases.
I think people would simply get full too fast and it would limit the amount of fat they could eat and lower blood ketones in the process.
GNG happens all the time if you're not eating carbs. It has to. The fat adapted brain still needs its 40-60g glucose a day so GNG is going to happen no matter what. At some point really high protein intake may make more glucose but once the body's glucose needs are met, why would it bother? It's not as efficient if I understand correctly. The only exception is where hyperinsulinemia exists. Then GNG is feeding the excess insulin.1 -
I do. Knock yourself out. Advice is not gospel here either way. Just be careful what your read on the Internet. It might make people sick!
Your tone suggests that you believe the information here is misinformation and that they're getting their information from the internet. We link to internet sources, because the print ones are next to impossible to find (out of print, haven't been digitized), but the data goes back over a century. Dr. Salisbury treated a number of health issues with a meat-only diet, back in the 1800s.
Technically speaking, any way of eating "might make people sick." That's why most of us are here, and why most of us who follow ZC do so. To imply that "might make someone sick" is unique to this way of eating is disingenuous.
It's worth noting/remembering that ZC isn't a way that we generally actively encourage or proselytize, nor do we claim that it's the way to go for everyone (or even most people). The unfortunate part of humanity being omnivorous is that what works phenomenally well for one person may fail spectacularly for another (even when followed correctly), so there is no one-size-fits all approach. It has grown in popularity organically. The people who have tried it have done so of their own volition after hearing about others who have found success with it.@Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.
It depends on the reason for the therapy. In the case of the old epilepsy therapy, it's largely due to old data. The original trials were done by restricting not just protein, but water and calories, as well. This makes the old research a bit sketchy, especially when it comes to the side effects, as most more modern trials use modified Atkins, or at least don't restrict calories and fluids (especially in children).
That said, in the cases where protein does demonstrably need to be restricted, it's not so much due to the glucose, but rather its action on insulin. The ketones, themselves, have many therapeutic effects, but their production is modulated by insulin. Higher protein intake means more insulin floating around means fewer ketones produced means less therapeutic benefit. Additionally, it seems some cancers use amino acids to grow, requiring protein to be restricted....because it's protein.
If you're interested in the therapeutic effects of keto, I highly recommend checking out Andrew Scarborough's blog. He's a brain cancer survivor who uses keto as part of a nutrient therapy program to heal his brain cancer and manage the epilepsy he deals with as a result of the cancer. He's been working closely with medical researchers in order to further study in this area.3 -
What exactly are you talking about? I am ketosis eating healthy vegetables with my meats. I have a meter and keto strips. Is this group zero carb? I support Low Carb Healthy Fat (LCHF). My personal experience a zero carb will make you terribly ill. I didn't go read to figure that out. I tried it and found out. You can do what you want. If you're advocating that people eat only meat that is horrible misinformation and you will make people sick. I ate only meat thinking if under 50 carbs a day works the zero must be great. It wasn't for me. I love meat, long live meat! But saute some veggies or have a nice salad with extra blue cheese dressing with it! And long live you! Ha Ha0
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Thank you for your perspectives/insights @Sunny_Bunnie @ @Dragonwolf. Appreciate you both.3
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What exactly are you talking about? I am ketosis eating healthy vegetables with my meats. I have a meter and keto strips. Is this group zero carb? I support Low Carb Healthy Fat (LCHF). My personal experience a zero carb will make you terribly ill. I didn't go read to figure that out. I tried it and found out. You can do what you want. If you're advocating that people eat only meat that is horrible misinformation and you will make people sick. I ate only meat thinking if under 50 carbs a day works the zero must be great. It wasn't for me. I love meat, long live meat! But saute some veggies or have a nice salad with extra blue cheese dressing with it! And long live you! Ha Ha
You might want to re-read what I wrote, because I said exactly the opposite of most of your conclusions.2 -
What exactly are you talking about? I am ketosis eating healthy vegetables with my meats. I have a meter and keto strips. Is this group zero carb? I support Low Carb Healthy Fat (LCHF). My personal experience a zero carb will make you terribly ill. I didn't go read to figure that out. I tried it and found out. You can do what you want. If you're advocating that people eat only meat that is horrible misinformation and you will make people sick. I ate only meat thinking if under 50 carbs a day works the zero must be great. It wasn't for me. I love meat, long live meat! But saute some veggies or have a nice salad with extra blue cheese dressing with it! And long live you! Ha Ha
This group is anyone zero carb all the way up to 150g carbs a day. All levels of low carb people get support here.
I'm gonna say that again.
All levels of low carb people get support here.
There has been ZERO advocating for eating zero carb. You are in a thread that is mostly consisting of some of the zero carb members of our group that eat this way specifically because vegetables make them sick AND YOU ARE TELLING THEM TO EAT VEGETABLES.
Why would you do that?
Again, no one here, besides you, are telling anyone else what they should eat.
This group consists of people that eat at varying levels of low carb. This thread, within the group, is specifically discussing zero carb. There are few zero carb eaters here. Some just trying it out to see what they think. The group is not zero carb. This thread is... and you came into it TELLING people not to do it.
How about we have a do over now that we are all understanding what's going on.
If you are not zero carb and have strong opinions about it, you may want to avoid the threads that specifically discuss it.
Pretty much 99% of all the other threads on here don't so you should be more comfortable in those.8 -
People only read what they write. And think too highly of their own comments. Good luck on your path.0
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My experience with eating more carbs while having to eat a soft diet (to allow my body to heal after having a portion of my small, and large, intestine removed, as well as the bypassed portion of my stomach because of an ulcer that was diagnosed before I ever started LCHF) has been a return of the pain due to muscle spasm in my neck that had improved drastically while eating LCHF (which stands for LOW CARB HIGH FAT)! I'm also experiencing fibromyalgia pain that I had forgotten about!
I've been part of this group for two years and I have never seen anyone insist that a certain carb level is best for everyone. This group is all about finding the level that works for YOU. Then supporting each other through the process! I trust the anecdotal (personal experiences) information here more than what I see through Google...2 -
My experience with eating more carbs while having to eat a soft diet (to allow my body to heal after having a portion of my small, and large, intestine removed, as well as the bypassed portion of my stomach because of an ulcer that was diagnosed before I ever started LCHF) has been a return of the pain due to muscle spasm in my neck that had improved drastically while eating LCHF (which stands for LOW CARB HIGH FAT)! I'm also experiencing fibromyalgia pain that I had forgotten about!
I've been part of this group for two years and I have never seen anyone insist that a certain carb level is best for everyone. This group is all about finding the level that works for YOU. Then supporting each other through the process! I trust the anecdotal (personal experiences) information here more than what I see through Google...
I'm so sorry you've been having such a hard time with these old health issues. I hope you get all healed up and it's all in the past now. Thinking positive thoughts for you.
I see a lot of defensive talk out in other groups I participate in. Actually, I barely participate because almost every single post ends up having something tense going on in the comments eventually. Usually total misunderstandings honestly... which I also believe is the culprit here.
This group has always been unique in that way. I think it's specifically because of the wide range of low carbers participating in it. We have diversity but also acceptance and understanding even to those choosing methods that don't personally work for ourselves. What failed for me, will be perfect for another. But what failed for me will also fail for someone else, so my non judgemental input may still have value and that's why I feel like I can comment freely, but respectfully here, even if my view is different.
Our differences are valuable. They shouldn't be used as measure of right or wrong. Vegetables make me feel bad but I believe that if another person can eat them, then they should. I would never jump to the conclusion that because it is bad for ME that is applies to everyone.7 -
@Karlottap Thank you for chiming in with your experience. Im so sorry to hear about your surgery and that your pain has returned. What kind of soft foods do you have to eat? Meat can be made into a paste!
@Sunny_Bunny_ Your words always ring so true!
Today is day 23 of eating carnivore.
Observations: the craving I have is for chocolatey desserts. I had made a chocolate whipped cream during my first week of zc and discovered that I drank the entire little carton and still wanted more, so I haven't bought anymore since. I feel like I would binge on the hwc.
I have just about cut out all coffee, although if I really want one I will just have one. I have reduced the cheese I have been eating, and am eating about 80% beef, 20% chicken thighs last week.
Over the weekend I ate a ribeye for dinner Friday, breakfast and dinner Saturday and breakfast Sunday. I found a great sale at a local store and bought quite a few. I was feeling quite sick with no energy Friday, and got better quickly with hours on the couch and netflix...and ribeyes? Who knows for sure. It did seem like a speedy recovery though.
Feeling pretty good and my pants are feeling looser, but my sleep has gone back to normal, which is to say difficulty getting up in the morning but trouble falling asleep. Hoping that deep zc sleep finds me again soon.1 -
... has been a return of the pain due to muscle spasm in my neck that had improved drastically while eating LCHF...
Thanks for responding @karlotta. I'm sorry to hear the spasming has returned but in that peculiar sort of way, it gives additional hope that I am on the right path. YOU (and your mention of your Dystonia improving) were the catalyst for me starting Keto. In the beginning, I had a bit of difficulty with carb bingeing and every. single. time the neck spasms associated with my Cervical Dystonia returned with vigor and I was once again "locked right". I recall we're both "right turners". This crap is miserable and embarrassing but at least we seem to have a solution. I KNOW you'll be glad to get back to carnivore. Right now I'm 70-80% fat overall (117 grams minimum) of which 42grams are MCT. Frankly, I'm attempting to keep vegetables in my diet but, hey, I'll give them up (reluctantly) to not be a "bobblehead".
Appreciate your input.
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I LOVE Braunschweiger! Was eating that last week with cream cheese...mmmm.0
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Day 21 for me doing ZC. Weight has not changed a lot - only down 1/2 a lb since Friday (I know, there are peeps on here that would kill for that drop in 3 days ), but I know that inches are going down significantly. I am currently wearing a pair of jeans that only 2 weeks ago I could wear w/o a belt and this morning I had grab the belt again to keep them from sliding off my hips! Sleep is still going quite well - only sleep an average of 6 hours a night, but I feel more rested from that amount of sleep than I ever did before trying ZC (no afternoon sleep needs, more energy during the day, etc.). My workouts have not suffered any during this time either - I am not doing any more reps than I used to, but I am doing much more weight than before (which could also contribute to the lower than desired weight loss). I am also going to cut back on the amount of cheese that I have been eating and see if that helps push me in the right direction.
All-in-all, I feel this is a positive move for me and I will continue to be a carnivore!
eta - because spelling...2 -
Kirstie155 wrote: »
I made my best pan fried steak today! I like a nice sear on the steak, and have been failing at getting the crust without overcooking the steak. Today I used a steak iron that I forgot I had, and that made all the difference at getting the maximum steak surface contact. Yum!!!
Don't know what kind of oven you have, but I have found that cooking steaks in the broiler is second best to actually being able to grill them!0
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