Zero Carber-give me your meat!

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Replies

  • cstehansen
    cstehansen Posts: 1,984 Member
    Kirstie155 wrote: »
    Just thinking out loud here, folks.

    Day 19 of strict ZC, feel like I might actually be sick with a cold. I've been fighting it all week and just feeling terrible with a sore throat every morning and just so tired and unmotivated. By the end of the day my mental motivation returns, and last night I vacuumed and put Christmas decorations away, put the living room furniture back to its rightful post Christmas tree spots. Trying to make it to the weekend before I really get sick so I don't have to use any sick leave this early in the year.

    I know you all are going to tell me not to freak out and trust the process, its too early, throw away the scale, ect. but...The scale is going UP and I'm starting to freak a bit about it, and it is looking like for the past 3 weeks I have less than a pound loss total. I started ZC on 1/8/17

    rcg4yeh9f0bc.png

    It's just very frustrating because I haven't strayed from ZC even once, and am doing a weightlifting routine 2x a week. I have easily 50#-70# to lose, so can I just get a few vanity pounds on the scale please? Over the last few days I did eat some prepared liverwurst and cream cheese. Last night I had salmon and shrimp, I have had a cup of coffee with half and half once or twice a week, and I did restart taking prenatal vitamins-organic and all from veggies no artificial ingredients in these vitamins (I will be trying to conceive sometime in the next 6 months.) For those that are interested and think this may be the cause, my TOM ended one week ago.

    Maybe I should just go with chicken thighs and beef for awhile? I'm mixing up my foods because I have a lot of options in my freezer, and one of my goals was to eat all the meat from the freezer. I have ground beef, steaks, porkloins, chicken thighs, a whole duck, shrimp. I have some chicken thighs and sirloins defrosting now, and was going to make The Bears chicken recipe.

    Feeling frustrated and tired :s

    First, under 30 days is not long enough to cause significant stress when you make such a big change.

    I don't know exactly what you are eating, but here are just a few thoughts for you:
    1. If you are looking to lose weight, you do not need to eat any "fat bombs" or hit some mystical fat macro. The fat on your body that you are burning will make up for any shortage there.
    2. One struggle I have is staying away from less satiating ZC foods such as pork rinds and bacon. Both have a lot of calories but don't fill me up at all. I could literally eat 2000 calories of either without blinking. It is not that calories don't matter, they just don't matter the same way. It is possible to gain weight with any WOE if not careful about food choices.
    3. For some, dairy can cause a stall. For others, there are other foods. As for the foods you mentioned that you have in your freezer, I doubt any of those would cause a stall. However, use of an elimination diet might be helpful where you cut something out and see if it has an effect.
    4. Hopefully, you took measurements at the beginning because you may stay even on weight, but have that weight show differently. I went through about a 6-8 week period where my weight did not change, but my body fat percentage dropped by about 5%.

    Hang in there!
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,141 Member
    Great points by @cstehansen
    Also, it's entirely possible to gain weight BUT get smaller. I did it without exercise. Seems even more likely with your routine.
    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10353600/there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-stall#latest
  • Kirstie155
    Kirstie155 Posts: 1,001 Member
    edited January 2017
    Thanks for all the words of encouragement everyone. Today is day 20, and yesterday I just ate and ate and thought for sure the scale was going to go back up. I wanted chocolate. Instead I ate cheeseburgers for breakfast and lunch, and had a steak followed by 2 of the bears chicken thighs-more food than I needed but dang that chicken recipe is great! This morning the scale said 198.6 :p Stupid scale.

    I did not take measurements, but did take progress photos, and am planning on eating mostly beef or lamb. I'm not eating much cheese and really no cream at the moment (I tend to binge drink the cream) less chicken and liverwurst. Beef and water, thats what the experts say, right? I had steak for breakfast, yum!

    Thanks Sunny for the link to your post, I have read it before and it is so helpful. Great reminder.
  • ccrdragon
    ccrdragon Posts: 3,287 Member
    Yeah! Sometimes the scale is our friend and sometimes we hate the thing and want to chuck it out the window...

    My weights this week: Tues - 227, Wed - 222.5, Thur - 225.3, Fri - 223.2 (wth ?!?!)...

    Still staying at carnivore levels on carbs (only carbs from dairy for the most part - did have minor carbs from a little bit of spaghetti sauce last night). Only real difference between Thursday and Friday was less cheese Thursday night than Wednesday night. Might have to keep an eye on that and see if I can control my cheese habits... :smile:

  • Kirstie155
    Kirstie155 Posts: 1,001 Member
    Wow, that is a great week! Keep up the great work!

    Today I had sirloin for breakfast, skipped lunch. .75# ribeye and one bear chicken thigh for dinner. Stuffed. :)
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,020 Member
    Kirstie155 wrote: »
    Just thinking out loud here, folks.

    Day 19 of strict ZC, feel like I might actually be sick with a cold. I've been fighting it all week and just feeling terrible with a sore throat every morning and just so tired and unmotivated. By the end of the day my mental motivation returns, and last night I vacuumed and put Christmas decorations away, put the living room furniture back to its rightful post Christmas tree spots. Trying to make it to the weekend before I really get sick so I don't have to use any sick leave this early in the year.

    I know you all are going to tell me not to freak out and trust the process, its too early, throw away the scale, ect. but...The scale is going UP and I'm starting to freak a bit about it, and it is looking like for the past 3 weeks I have less than a pound loss total. I started ZC on 1/8/17

    rcg4yeh9f0bc.png

    It's just very frustrating because I haven't strayed from ZC even once, and am doing a weightlifting routine 2x a week. I have easily 50#-70# to lose, so can I just get a few vanity pounds on the scale please? Over the last few days I did eat some prepared liverwurst and cream cheese. Last night I had salmon and shrimp, I have had a cup of coffee with half and half once or twice a week, and I did restart taking prenatal vitamins-organic and all from veggies no artificial ingredients in these vitamins (I will be trying to conceive sometime in the next 6 months.) For those that are interested and think this may be the cause, my TOM ended one week ago.

    Maybe I should just go with chicken thighs and beef for awhile? I'm mixing up my foods because I have a lot of options in my freezer, and one of my goals was to eat all the meat from the freezer. I have ground beef, steaks, porkloins, chicken thighs, a whole duck, shrimp. I have some chicken thighs and sirloins defrosting now, and was going to make The Bears chicken recipe.

    Feeling frustrated and tired :s

    It could be exercise too. I was doing a pretty serious weight routine a few years ago. My weight loss had slowed a lot and I was concentrating more on lifting than losing. Then I had a back injury (burst disc and some paralysis) so I need to stop all exercise for a while. I went from working out 60-90 minutes per day to nothing, and I lost close to 10lbs in a couple of weeks. Whoosh. My guess is my muscles finally had a chance to recover and gave up their water weight.
  • fatblatta
    fatblatta Posts: 333 Member
    I tried this. Meat has no fiber. I didn't go to the bathroom very much. Add a bunch of veggies cooked in fat. It really helped me on all fronts. I stay away from starchy veggies. Some folks may be able to do only meat protein, but I can't. Also, the body turns extra protein into glucose which raises your insulin. I was 270 November 28 and I am 235 today. I've been LCHF for a while. For me increasing veggies and reducing meat protein, and abstaining from alcohol, was the key. I hope! Everyone is different. Good Luck on your journey and don't give up!
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,141 Member
    edited January 2017
    fatblatta wrote: »
    I tried this. Meat has no fiber. I didn't go to the bathroom very much. Add a bunch of veggies cooked in fat. It really helped me on all fronts. I stay away from starchy veggies. Some folks may be able to do only meat protein, but I can't. Also, the body turns extra protein into glucose which raises your insulin. I was 270 November 28 and I am 235 today. I've been LCHF for a while. For me increasing veggies and reducing meat protein, and abstaining from alcohol, was the key. I hope! Everyone is different. Good Luck on your journey and don't give up!

    It's really not as simple as that. It's repeated all over the internet as being exactly as you stated but it's just not that simple. You're also overlooking that eating all animal based diet doesn't mean you're actually eating more protein. I average about 75-90, which is the same as when I ate veggies. Eliminating 20g carbs in the form of vegetables is 80 calories... it's not something I need to make up somewhere else. I don't eat extra meat to make up for a measly 80 calories of veggies. There's no need. I just don't eat the veggies and continue to eat exactly the same otherwise. It's really only a change in that I don't have an upset stomach anymore.
  • KarlaYP
    KarlaYP Posts: 4,439 Member
    I'm late to the party! I apologize for not chiming in here before now!

    I've also been ZC since the Meativore May challenge in 2015. I do have cheese, and HWC daily, and I will have mayo, mustard, or ketchup. I use the regular types, when I do, because I hate sugar free stuff (artificial sweetners seem to be worse for me than sugar!)! The health benefits (almost zero fibromyalgia pain, decreased migraines, cervical dystonia nearly resolved, chronic allergies disappeared....) are the reason I will continue ZC!

    I've had some health challenges since September (ulcer in my small intestine that had eroded into a birth defect in my large intestine!) that had me on liquid and soft foods (not conducive to ZC). The pain has returned with a vengeance, but I haven't gained any weight (don't understand this but am thankful!). I've been at maintenance since last summer,so weight loss hasn't been a goal since then. Somehow the carbs haven't done anything more to me than the pain, and terrible (OMG!! TERRIBLE BAD!!!) gas! I'm 3 days away from being able toresume ZC, and I'm so ready!

    Anyone interested in what ZC can do for them should try it. No, its not for everyone. Nothing works for all! You may be surprised by what you see!
  • fatblatta
    fatblatta Posts: 333 Member
    There is so much misinformation on the Internet it's bizarre. If you want to only eat meat and cheese fine. Knock yourself out. I'd like it, but get sick and sick of it after a while. For me personally, too much of these and probably anything is inflammatory. To the point that both times that I ate mostly meat I became severely constipated. Not just going less for sure. And I ended up with diverticulitis. I'm all about LCHF and shared what I did to improve it for me. If you are eating only meat and have digestive issues maybe it's what you're eating.

    If you want to look at the information I use, check out the diet doctor.com and read the Obesity Code. These guys surely do intend a diet heavy in certain vegetables and all the meat and fat you want until your full.

    Highest weight = 277
    Lowest weight = 170 (hit this 4 times in 30 years)
    Current weight = 235
  • FIT_Goat
    FIT_Goat Posts: 4,224 Member
    There is so much misinformation on the Internet it's bizarre.

    I think we both would agree with this statement, although I suspect we'll strongly disagree as to what is misinformation and what isn't.

    To each their own. If you don't want to eat a plant-free diet, then don't. We'll respect your diet choices, and hopefully you'll respect ours.
  • fatblatta
    fatblatta Posts: 333 Member
    I do. Knock yourself out. Advice is not gospel here either way. Just be careful what your read on the Internet. It might make people sick!
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    @Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.

    @Karlottap: did you see any change in your cervical dystonia when you had to begin eating soft foods to include carbs?
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,141 Member
    kpk54 wrote: »
    @Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.

    @Karlottap: did you see any change in your cervical dystonia when you had to begin eating soft foods to include carbs?

    My understanding as to why protein in a medically therapeutic ketogenic diet is to allow a larger portion of the diet to be comprised of fat for the purpose of higher ketone production since it's the concentration of blood ketones that makes the diet therapeutic in those cases.
    I think people would simply get full too fast and it would limit the amount of fat they could eat and lower blood ketones in the process.
    GNG happens all the time if you're not eating carbs. It has to. The fat adapted brain still needs its 40-60g glucose a day so GNG is going to happen no matter what. At some point really high protein intake may make more glucose but once the body's glucose needs are met, why would it bother? It's not as efficient if I understand correctly. The only exception is where hyperinsulinemia exists. Then GNG is feeding the excess insulin.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,614 Member
    fatblatta wrote: »
    I do. Knock yourself out. Advice is not gospel here either way. Just be careful what your read on the Internet. It might make people sick!

    Your tone suggests that you believe the information here is misinformation and that they're getting their information from the internet. We link to internet sources, because the print ones are next to impossible to find (out of print, haven't been digitized), but the data goes back over a century. Dr. Salisbury treated a number of health issues with a meat-only diet, back in the 1800s.

    Technically speaking, any way of eating "might make people sick." That's why most of us are here, and why most of us who follow ZC do so. To imply that "might make someone sick" is unique to this way of eating is disingenuous.

    It's worth noting/remembering that ZC isn't a way that we generally actively encourage or proselytize, nor do we claim that it's the way to go for everyone (or even most people). The unfortunate part of humanity being omnivorous is that what works phenomenally well for one person may fail spectacularly for another (even when followed correctly), so there is no one-size-fits all approach. It has grown in popularity organically. The people who have tried it have done so of their own volition after hearing about others who have found success with it.
    kpk54 wrote: »
    @Sunny_Bunnie and @FIT_Goat (or others) do you have any insight as to why protein is kept to a minimum on Medically Therapeutic Ketogenic Diets if there is no "issue" with proteins turning to glucose? They're often set to the minimum needed to protect growth in children and (I suppose) LBM in adults. Carbs are also kept to a minimum.

    It depends on the reason for the therapy. In the case of the old epilepsy therapy, it's largely due to old data. The original trials were done by restricting not just protein, but water and calories, as well. This makes the old research a bit sketchy, especially when it comes to the side effects, as most more modern trials use modified Atkins, or at least don't restrict calories and fluids (especially in children).

    That said, in the cases where protein does demonstrably need to be restricted, it's not so much due to the glucose, but rather its action on insulin. The ketones, themselves, have many therapeutic effects, but their production is modulated by insulin. Higher protein intake means more insulin floating around means fewer ketones produced means less therapeutic benefit. Additionally, it seems some cancers use amino acids to grow, requiring protein to be restricted....because it's protein.

    If you're interested in the therapeutic effects of keto, I highly recommend checking out Andrew Scarborough's blog. He's a brain cancer survivor who uses keto as part of a nutrient therapy program to heal his brain cancer and manage the epilepsy he deals with as a result of the cancer. He's been working closely with medical researchers in order to further study in this area.
  • fatblatta
    fatblatta Posts: 333 Member
    What exactly are you talking about? I am ketosis eating healthy vegetables with my meats. I have a meter and keto strips. Is this group zero carb? I support Low Carb Healthy Fat (LCHF). My personal experience a zero carb will make you terribly ill. I didn't go read to figure that out. I tried it and found out. You can do what you want. If you're advocating that people eat only meat that is horrible misinformation and you will make people sick. I ate only meat thinking if under 50 carbs a day works the zero must be great. It wasn't for me. I love meat, long live meat! But saute some veggies or have a nice salad with extra blue cheese dressing with it! And long live you! Ha Ha
  • kpk54
    kpk54 Posts: 4,474 Member
    Thank you for your perspectives/insights @Sunny_Bunnie @ @Dragonwolf. Appreciate you both.
  • Dragonwolf
    Dragonwolf Posts: 5,614 Member
    fatblatta wrote: »
    What exactly are you talking about? I am ketosis eating healthy vegetables with my meats. I have a meter and keto strips. Is this group zero carb? I support Low Carb Healthy Fat (LCHF). My personal experience a zero carb will make you terribly ill. I didn't go read to figure that out. I tried it and found out. You can do what you want. If you're advocating that people eat only meat that is horrible misinformation and you will make people sick. I ate only meat thinking if under 50 carbs a day works the zero must be great. It wasn't for me. I love meat, long live meat! But saute some veggies or have a nice salad with extra blue cheese dressing with it! And long live you! Ha Ha

    You might want to re-read what I wrote, because I said exactly the opposite of most of your conclusions.