Newest Lab Results not quite what I expected
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I don't know how much protein you get daily but bring a woman and 62 makes higher protein very very important.
I don't log my food since most everything is homemade. Simplified menu. 2 eggs, bacon or sausage for breakfast every day, Meat, fish (canned Sockeye or Sardines) or cheese for lunch (4 ounces), meat or fish for dinner, (six ounces). Included daily are fresh veggies, olives, butter, olive oil, coconut oil and nuts.1 -
Get cardiac calcium scan- insurance won't cover- mine cost about $140.00 USA - best test ever paid for-will show calcium deposits in arteries of heart- inflammation causes etc. etc. my cholesterol high( pre lchf) >300 however cardiac ca+ score 0 and non smoker- so no need for statin drug- you likely experienced rabdomylosis- can be s/e r/t use station drug- (your doctor knows this given your symptoms)
I will put this on my to do list. I will also discuss with my doctor if he knows where I can get this done at low cost in the Atlanta area. (as well as the elusive LDL-P test) I want my dear hubby to get this as well.0 -
Here's just 1 article that can be found on the internet if you are an advocate of higher protein for older adults, choose to take the position and search for one in support of.
Many other articles would state otherwise.
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/040715p16.shtml
Because I like to look at the actual research that lead to the opinion article, I looked up a couple of these. One of the parts I found interesting is from the second cited study which said in part:The 13-wk change in appendicular muscle mass, however, was different in the intervention and control groups [+0.4 ± 1.2 kg and -0.5 ± 2.1 kg, respectively; β = 0.95 kg (95% CI: 0.09, 1.81); P = 0.03]. Muscle strength and function improved over time without significant differences between groups.
Basically, there was muscle gain in the group that had 1.11g/kg of body weight in daily protein intake and loss in the group that was at 0.85g/kg.
Although this is advocating more protein, this is not advocating HIGH protein as 1.11g/kg of body weight is not that high. This study was also only looking at obese people (BMI ave 33) and average age of 63.
This study and another also indicated the importance not just of protein but it being combined with other nutrients like vitamin D and calcium.
The type of protein is also important. One of the ones specifically mentioned is leucine because it is necessary for recycling the protein your body naturally breaks down each day. As a point of reference, eggs are a great source of leucine. I believe one egg has between 1/3 and 1/2 of what you need for the day, but I would need to look that up.
Anyway, using the numbers for "enough" protein, from the actual studies a 150 lb person (68 kg) would need about 75 g of protein. I don't think these studies or this article was intended for people on this WOE as much as for the general population who tends to not get enough protein (and especially leucine) because they have been scared off from the good sources because they have the dreaded saturated fat like eggs and beef. All of the studies seem to be comparing their "higher" protein against either 0.8g/kg or 0.85g/kg, which is probably lower than most in this group as that comes out to only 0.36g per lb of body weight.1 -
Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
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Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
Does your doc want you to dump metformin specifically, or do you personally want to take as few meds as possible?
Good luck with the CAC!0 -
cstehansen wrote: »Here's just 1 article that can be found on the internet if you are an advocate of higher protein for older adults, choose to take the position and search for one in support of.
Many other articles would state otherwise.
http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/040715p16.shtml
Because I like to look at the actual research that lead to the opinion article, I looked up a couple of these. One of the parts I found interesting is from the second cited study which said in part:The 13-wk change in appendicular muscle mass, however, was different in the intervention and control groups [+0.4 ± 1.2 kg and -0.5 ± 2.1 kg, respectively; β = 0.95 kg (95% CI: 0.09, 1.81); P = 0.03]. Muscle strength and function improved over time without significant differences between groups.
Basically, there was muscle gain in the group that had 1.11g/kg of body weight in daily protein intake and loss in the group that was at 0.85g/kg.
Although this is advocating more protein, this is not advocating HIGH protein as 1.11g/kg of body weight is not that high. This study was also only looking at obese people (BMI ave 33) and average age of 63.
This study and another also indicated the importance not just of protein but it being combined with other nutrients like vitamin D and calcium.
The type of protein is also important. One of the ones specifically mentioned is leucine because it is necessary for recycling the protein your body naturally breaks down each day. As a point of reference, eggs are a great source of leucine. I believe one egg has between 1/3 and 1/2 of what you need for the day, but I would need to look that up.
Anyway, using the numbers for "enough" protein, from the actual studies a 150 lb person (68 kg) would need about 75 g of protein. I don't think these studies or this article was intended for people on this WOE as much as for the general population who tends to not get enough protein (and especially leucine) because they have been scared off from the good sources because they have the dreaded saturated fat like eggs and beef. All of the studies seem to be comparing their "higher" protein against either 0.8g/kg or 0.85g/kg, which is probably lower than most in this group as that comes out to only 0.36g per lb of body weight.
I'm missing your point. As I think you missed mine.
Carry on. 0 -
@kpk54 - my point was getting enough protein is important and more important as we age, but some tend to overestimate how much that is. For most, going higher than necessary in protein will not have any negative effect, but if therapeutic ketosis is the goal, which I believe is the case for you, too much protein may not be a good idea, therefore, I thought I would put out there what these studies were showing as higher amounts of protein.
I am by no means against high protein, if you are someone whose body deals well with higher amounts. I just think it is important to base personal n=1 experimentation on direct scientific research rather than on opinion pieces which may or may not reference specific research.3 -
Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
Does your doc want you to dump metformin specifically, or do you personally want to take as few meds as possible?
Good luck with the CAC!
He wants me off the metformin gradually, hence the change to regular metformin, changing the dosage as needed by self monitoring my glucose levels. No meds and good health/life is my ultimate goal.
The appointment for CAC is with Emory University later this month. $150 gets you a package that includes CAC, Lipids, BP, Blood Vessel Aging and consultation with a cardiologist. Self paid, as insurance does not cover it. I saw a Groupon for this with another company that was less than $50, but since the interstate burned and fell down, traffic would be a total and complete nightmare. Plus, my family has used Emory before; they are the best in Atlanta.
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Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
Does your doc want you to dump metformin specifically, or do you personally want to take as few meds as possible?
Good luck with the CAC!
He wants me off the metformin gradually, hence the change to regular metformin, changing the dosage as needed by self monitoring my glucose levels. No meds and good health/life is my ultimate goal.
The appointment for CAC is with Emory University later this month. $150 gets you a package that includes CAC, Lipids, BP, Blood Vessel Aging and consultation with a cardiologist. Self paid, as insurance does not cover it. I saw a Groupon for this with another company that was less than $50, but since the interstate burned and fell down, traffic would be a total and complete nightmare. Plus, my family has used Emory before; they are the best in Atlanta.
That's a bargain, especially if the cardiologist is attentive!
Note that there are differing thoughts on how to weight the variables that go into the scoring equation.1 -
Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
Does your doc want you to dump metformin specifically, or do you personally want to take as few meds as possible?
Good luck with the CAC!
He wants me off the metformin gradually, hence the change to regular metformin, changing the dosage as needed by self monitoring my glucose levels. No meds and good health/life is my ultimate goal.
The appointment for CAC is with Emory University later this month. $150 gets you a package that includes CAC, Lipids, BP, Blood Vessel Aging and consultation with a cardiologist. Self paid, as insurance does not cover it. I saw a Groupon for this with another company that was less than $50, but since the interstate burned and fell down, traffic would be a total and complete nightmare. Plus, my family has used Emory before; they are the best in Atlanta.
That's a bargain, especially if the cardiologist is attentive!
Note that there are differing thoughts on how to weight the variables that go into the scoring equation.
Forgot, they also give a Framingham score.1 -
Hi, Just got back from my doctor's. He has switched me to regular dosage of metformin, 2 500s twice a day in order to reduce my dependence on metformin gradually. He does not want to see me for another YEAR!!! Happy Happy, Joy Joy!
As for my lipid profile, he agrees there is no necessity for lowering my LDL with statins at this time, and has ordered a Coronary Calcium Scoring test.
This diet is awesome and so are the people on this forum. Thank you!
Does your doc want you to dump metformin specifically, or do you personally want to take as few meds as possible?
Good luck with the CAC!
He wants me off the metformin gradually, hence the change to regular metformin, changing the dosage as needed by self monitoring my glucose levels. No meds and good health/life is my ultimate goal.
The appointment for CAC is with Emory University later this month. $150 gets you a package that includes CAC, Lipids, BP, Blood Vessel Aging and consultation with a cardiologist. Self paid, as insurance does not cover it. I saw a Groupon for this with another company that was less than $50, but since the interstate burned and fell down, traffic would be a total and complete nightmare. Plus, my family has used Emory before; they are the best in Atlanta.
That's a bargain, especially if the cardiologist is attentive!
Note that there are differing thoughts on how to weight the variables that go into the scoring equation.
Forgot, they also give a Framingham score.
Ah, perhaps to show how poor the correlation is between those Framingham risk factors and the actual state of one's coronary arteries!0 -
I went for my Cardiac Calcium Score this morning. The results were not good, and I am angry, fearful to the point of tears right now. After being on statins since the early 90's, when my Dad had a triple bypass back then, my coronary arteries are now loaded with plaque. So that is about 27 years on statins (with great lab results). I can't remember exactly when I started them, but it was after our insurance company decided that statins were cheaper than coronary bypasses. So much for this miracle drug!
The results:
Female
62 years
B/P 118/79
Pulse 93
Non smoker
Total Calcium Score: 1286 Extensive Plaque Burden
Left Main Artery: 0
Left Anterior Descending Aorta: 420 Extensive Plaque Burden
Circumflex Artery: 6
Right Coronary Artery: 860 Extensive Plaque Burden
I need to make an appointment with my PCP and get a referral to a cardiologist and an angiogram. As far as diet goes, the low carb diet has been a success, loosing 34 pounds in 10 months, with a weigh in today of 146. My plaque load did not build up to this in the 10 months, I have been on this diet. It took years.
What do I do now? My brain can't think right now.
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I went for my Cardiac Calcium Score this morning. The results were not good, and I am angry, fearful to the point of tears right now. After being on statins since the early 90's, when my Dad had a triple bypass back then, my coronary arteries are now loaded with plaque. So that is about 27 years on statins (with great lab results). I can't remember exactly when I started them, but it was after our insurance company decided that statins were cheaper than coronary bypasses. So much for this miracle drug!
The results:
Female
62 years
B/P 118/79
Pulse 93
Non smoker
Total Calcium Score: 1286 Extensive Plaque Burden
Left Main Artery: 0
Left Anterior Descending Aorta: 420 Extensive Plaque Burden
Circumflex Artery: 6
Right Coronary Artery: 860 Extensive Plaque Burden
I need to make an appointment with my PCP and get a referral to a cardiologist and an angiogram. As far as diet goes, the low carb diet has been a success, loosing 34 pounds in 10 months, with a weigh in today of 146. My plaque load did not build up to this in the 10 months, I have been on this diet. It took years.
What do I do now? My brain can't think right now.
@Aquawave
Dr. Berg has some good videos on how to reduce the build-up using high dose D3/K2 stuff in the AM, balanced with A and ... something else in the PM. I hope that might help you find something. (has something to do with the D3/K2 combo acting like a vacuum cleaner going around and sucking up excess calcium... I don't remember the exact mechanism...but he was saying he'd had patients even use it to remove bone spurs...)
But I totally get the fear. This is one of mine, too. In fact, when I can afford a similar screening this year, I'm doing it. (HUGS)
@RalfLott has been studying this lately, too. Any suggestions?3 -
I totally understand the "Gotcha" feeling. Statins and other miracle meds, LFHC guidelines..... false friends for millions of us.
There are different ways of scoring these tests (weighing volume & density), and there are reports of angiograms showing significantly less narrowing than the CAC standing alone might suggest.
Generally, the scores are generated by machines, and a good cardiologist will have a different take.
Also, plaque is a repair mechanism. The potential mobility of the plaque is of greatest concern.
Still, hard as it may be to digest, you have done yourself a huge favor jumping on this now.
Best wishes & keep us posted!2 -
My husband has used C and Lysine to bring down his blood pressure (from 160+/130+ down to 130ish/80ish) - I'm including the link with the information that led him to start the regimen he's on because if I remember right it also addressed the calcium plaque issue.
healthy-again.net/manuals.htm
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From what I gather on the internet, The Mediterranean Diet, exercise, and unfortunately, statins can reduce the plaque. I hate the thought of statins, but, I have to get a grip that I have atherosclerosis. Perhaps there is one that will not cause me joint pain. Goodbye butter, bacon, sausage, homemade Cheese sauce, and other foods I have enjoyed since June. I have had fried eggs in olive oil, they are not bad.
In my opinion, this Coronary Calcium Score should be part of the Wellness Visit. It is cheaper than some of the blood tests they do and absolute in its prediction of vascular events. My statin-lipid profiles for years were perfect, and unknown to me the damage was being done. (I just can't get over the false promises of the pharmaceutical companies)
I talked to my best friend for 3 hours this afternoon, I am afraid I upset her, but she got my mind off this thing for a little while. I have known her since I was 16, her kids and mine practically grew up together. Now I am waiting for my husband to come home. I really dread telling him.3 -
Eggs & olive oil... the enemy?!?0
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From what I gather on the internet, The Mediterranean Diet, exercise, and unfortunately, statins can reduce the plaque. I hate the thought of statins, but, I have to get a grip that I have atherosclerosis. Perhaps there is one that will not cause me joint pain. Goodbye butter, bacon, sausage, homemade Cheese sauce, and other foods I have enjoyed since June. I have had fried eggs in olive oil, they are not bad.
In my opinion, this Coronary Calcium Score should be part of the Wellness Visit. It is cheaper than some of the blood tests they do and absolute in its prediction of vascular events. My statin-lipid profiles for years were perfect, and unknown to me the damage was being done. (I just can't get over the false promises of the pharmaceutical companies)
I talked to my best friend for 3 hours this afternoon, I am afraid I upset her, but she got my mind off this thing for a little while. I have known her since I was 16, her kids and mine practically grew up together. Now I am waiting for my husband to come home. I really dread telling him.
You said yourself that this did not build up in 10 months, and if I'm understanding you correctly, you've been on statins for 27 years, apparently to no avail.
It's entirely your choice and your life (literally), but I encourage you to at least take a look at the research regarding LCHF and atherosclerosis before jumping ship in fear. There's a fair bit of evidence that LCHF does not cause and can in fact reverse atherosclerosis.
Here are some things to get you started.
Studies/case studies:
https://docmuscles.com/2016/05/28/vascular-plaque-reduction-with-ketogenic-diet-a-case-study/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19892353 (caveat on this one -- it's on guinea pigs, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but still of interest)
http://annals.org/aim/article/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
Other resources:
https://www.quora.com/In-a-high-fat-and-low-carb-diet-how-does-one-avoid-the-effects-of-too-much-saturated-fat-and-thus-artery-clogging (bunches of links regarding the diet-heart hypothesis)
https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-how-to-prevent-and-reverse-heart-disease-naturally/ (information on specific nutrients for it)
I know, it's easy to say "hold up a second" when you're not the one staring down the barrel of a heart attack. However, you've said in the same post as "MD, exercise, and statins can reduce the plaque" that the pharmaceutical companies made false promises. Since you probably have some time between doctor appointments, it might be worth doing some more in-depth research.7 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »From what I gather on the internet, The Mediterranean Diet, exercise, and unfortunately, statins can reduce the plaque. I hate the thought of statins, but, I have to get a grip that I have atherosclerosis. Perhaps there is one that will not cause me joint pain. Goodbye butter, bacon, sausage, homemade Cheese sauce, and other foods I have enjoyed since June. I have had fried eggs in olive oil, they are not bad.
In my opinion, this Coronary Calcium Score should be part of the Wellness Visit. It is cheaper than some of the blood tests they do and absolute in its prediction of vascular events. My statin-lipid profiles for years were perfect, and unknown to me the damage was being done. (I just can't get over the false promises of the pharmaceutical companies)
I talked to my best friend for 3 hours this afternoon, I am afraid I upset her, but she got my mind off this thing for a little while. I have known her since I was 16, her kids and mine practically grew up together. Now I am waiting for my husband to come home. I really dread telling him.
You said yourself that this did not build up in 10 months, and if I'm understanding you correctly, you've been on statins for 27 years, apparently to no avail.
It's entirely your choice and your life (literally), but I encourage you to at least take a look at the research regarding LCHF and atherosclerosis before jumping ship in fear. There's a fair bit of evidence that LCHF does not cause and can in fact reverse atherosclerosis.
Here are some things to get you started.
Studies/case studies:
https://docmuscles.com/2016/05/28/vascular-plaque-reduction-with-ketogenic-diet-a-case-study/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19892353 (caveat on this one -- it's on guinea pigs, so I'd take it with a grain of salt, but still of interest)
http://annals.org/aim/article/1900694/effects-low-carbohydrate-low-fat-diets-randomized-trial
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract
Other resources:
https://www.quora.com/In-a-high-fat-and-low-carb-diet-how-does-one-avoid-the-effects-of-too-much-saturated-fat-and-thus-artery-clogging (bunches of links regarding the diet-heart hypothesis)
https://chriskresser.com/the-diet-heart-myth-how-to-prevent-and-reverse-heart-disease-naturally/ (information on specific nutrients for it)
I know, it's easy to say "hold up a second" when you're not the one staring down the barrel of a heart attack. However, you've said in the same post as "MD, exercise, and statins can reduce the plaque" that the pharmaceutical companies made false promises. Since you probably have some time between doctor appointments, it might be worth doing some more in-depth research.
I am not going off low carb, it is controlling my diabetes, plus I have lost the weight. I am going off saturated fats and looking into the Mediterranean Diet. Not sure what else I can do. I now have an appointment with my PCP and looking for a referral to an angiogram. Thanks for the links. Yes, 27 years, religiously, on statins, to no avail. Gave up statins last June to see if that would help with my joint/hip pain (which it did). Same time as I started on LCHF to control my diabetes (which it did). Don't blame the recent diet, the plaque built up for years in my heart from the MAD diet. Runs in my family. Perhaps if I discovered LCHF decades ago.....4 -
jeffreydachmd.com/how-to-reverse-heart-disease-with-the-coronary-calcium-score/
I read this after Butter Bob got a score of 17 and was upset. I have not had the test run but per their website one group with offices in the Nashville TN area promote the Calcium Scoring test for $50. I think Butter Bob paid $99 at UT medical center in Knoxville TN.
@Aquawave knowing to have surgery before having the heart attack is a plus and now you know how to eat to prevent the new arteries from getting clogged by doing keto. Best of success in working for a fast solution. Thanks for posting and causing some to get the testing.6
