Food, Exercise, or other Reports
Replies
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Walking I can earn around 300 calories per hour so I try to relate household chores to the amount of movement or levels of exertion. In some cases gardening could be a much bigger calorie burner than walking. In other cases it would be less.
Yeah, I think the heat was throwing me off. I have a hard time perceiving how hard I'm actually working vs how hot I am. I don't deal well with heat! In this case, it would have been a bigger calorie burner than walking, so I'm sure I underestimated my calories. I did eat at maintenance that day (including eating back my exercise calories estimate), so it probably evened out to a normal deficit.
I'm a little paranoid about overestimating my exercise calories. In past weight loss attempts, I've focused more on exercise, and less on calorie intake. I tend to get a "well I'm working out hard, I can eat whatever I want" attitude. I looove food. And I remember the last time where I could eat as much as I wanted, and still lost weight without any thought or effort. I was 16 and on the nordic ski team (think running 5+ miles a day, 100's of yards of plyometrics and bounding...I thought it was going to kill me). Until very recently, I've always defaulted to thinking "If I can only work out that hard again, I won't have to think about weight loss/count calories, it will just happen effortlessly!" Never mind the fact that I was 16, growing, had high a higher base activity level, and was doing substantially harder workouts than I do as an adult. This is a big part of why I focused on diet only for the first 9 months of weight loss.
All that to say that I'm still getting comfortable with exercise calorie estimates, particularly balancing the need for proper fueling with my usual desire to eat more than I need. All part of the learning process, I guess!
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Look guys, logging is logging and does require adjustment based on results over time.
I am not sure whether @NovusDies or others have gone into detail in the group on how you can evaluate how close to reality you're logging/tracking.
My personal opinion (and it's a relatively educated opinion; but not validated by a large sample) is that Fitbit will (on a single walk, especially if heart rate is higher) give more calories than were spent. But it will also give less calories for non walking, being alive, working on a computer, etc.
For most people things tend to come out to a wash while being encouraged to move more, which is good.
At above 15k steps (i.e. exceeding the activity factor in MFP very active) there tend, I think, to exist a bit of an overestimate of calories spent, especially if they're all from a single long bout/walk.
That said, I've averaged more than 18k steps during weight loss and after (starting at less than 3-5k before weight loss) and my highest error (as a % of TDEE over the course of a year) was 4.77% or about 150 Cal. So it is certainly something that is easy to take into account and evaluate.
I view Fitbit as an independent estimator of the calories i spent. One that is less biased by my mood than I would be if I were called upon to estimate my exercise calories.
I let it do its thing, look at my weight trend using trend weight, which I connect with my Fitbit account, and occasionally make sure that I'm still in the ballpark in terms of my logging of calories in versus the Fitbit logging of calories out.
Connecting MFP and Fitbit means that MFP's calories out get adjusted to become equal to Fitbit TDEE **at midnight**
I think you would be surprised if you combine very careful intake logging with a Fitbit as to how close you could come.
in terms of single exercises especially ones that take place for a long duration the biggest issue is that a net vs. gross calories
Mfp gives us all at least 1.25*BMR calories per minute of existence. And this is appropriate because unless we're in a coma (or sleeping) we do spend more than one * BMR calories even when sitting down.
(Remember my discussion above? Fitbit gives 1.0 x BMR calories if it doesn't detect any movement; which is why it underestimates most non-detection)
Anyways the issue then with a single exercise, is that you don't only have to subtract 1.0 * BMR to go from gross calories to net; but you actually have to subtract 1.25 if MFP is sedentary, or 1.4, 1.6 or 1.8 depending on the activity setting.
Which is where the biggest percentage of the adage to only eat half the exercise calories comes from.
This refers to exercise calories logged in mfp using mfp exercises
If you have a tracker that is synchronized the value you get as an adjustment to exercise does not represent the same type of gross exercise value; it is instead the net tdee adjustment I mentioned before.
Anyway. We know that the zero exercise calories is wrong! Losing faster than appropriate is not actually a good long-term play, at least not in my opinion.
Log carefully. Eat a good quantity or most of the adjustment. Evaluate your weight trend over 4-6 weeks to see how closely your logging correlates with the results you're getting.
I had put together a daily tracking sheet for some MFP friends as an outtake of the sheet I used to use.
I now only tend to look at my intake logging on a day to day basis, my Fitbit resting heart rate, and weight trend, which all seem to correlate close enough for my needs.
However, I've also done a weekly sheet for someone in the main forum to validate his logging vs his Garmin.
So I have two different examples available if anyone wants them, though I also believe that Novus has indicated that he can help people figure things out, if I recall correctly.
Sorry if I've rambled. Has been a long day here and I still want to take the dog out!!!!
Oh, yes, www.exrx.net run walk calculator has one of the better research based calculators.
Just remember that loosely 1*MET = 1*BMR, so their gross to net adjustment doesn't take into account that mfp assigns 1.25
But you would be surprised a) how much extra weight makes a difference (it does and formulas that don't take it into account underestimate) and b) how highly active 20k steps is, especially spread throughout the day.
On the downside one of the side effects of weight loss *is* that we become more efficient and thrifty with our NEAT and aerobic activity and our expenditures tend to reduce over time beyond what a change in weight would predict.... on the other hand the activities also tend to become easier for us to do .. plus they feel good once they become embedded in our lives!2 -
Re a comment above: it is definitely a balance.
You don't want to depend on unsustainable activity and exercise levels to fuel out of control eating. You're one inevitable injury, illness, or life issue away from disaster.
But you also definitely want to fuel increased activity, and keep weight loss reasonable, while increasing health because of exercise, assuming you can perform it.
Also a higher baseline of future physical activity seems to be a relatively common theme amongst people who report maintaining a major weight loss (see weight loss registry studies and https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/physical-activity-key-keeping-weight -- I note as an opinion that I believe that extremes result in extremes and a more moderate approach would be more likely to end up at a better place)
That said; getting the food monster under control is primary!1 -
I did order me a new mattress yesterday; I'm hoping that will help with the sleeping issues which in turn will help with the over all feelings of lethargy.
I didn't get a walk in this morning - my fitness tracker needed charged and I didn't realize it until I stepped out the door and it wouldn't start monitoring my activity. So I started my work day early instead and as soon as the tracker is charged, I'll hit the elliptical and make sure to get cardio in this afternoon before I take the cat to the vet. I'll just have to try to get the walk in this evening if it doesn't rain.Re a comment above: it is definitely a balance.
You don't want to depend on unsustainable activity and exercise levels to fuel out of control eating. You're one inevitable injury, illness, or life issue away from disaster.
But you also definitely want to fuel increased activity, and keep weight loss reasonable, while increasing health because of exercise, assuming you can perform it.
Also a higher baseline of future physical activity seems to be a relatively common theme amongst people who report maintaining a major weight loss (see weight loss registry studies and https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/physical-activity-key-keeping-weight -- I note as an opinion that I believe that extremes result in extremes and a more moderate approach would be more likely to end up at a better place)
That said; getting the food monster under control is primary!
@PAV8888
the food monster is definitely the supreme bad guy I have to fight, and like all really good bad guys, he can be defeated but never completely vanquished, lurking somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind, waiting to make a comeback and try once again to take over the world that is me
The topic on activity got me to thinking, though. I feel tired just on a daily basis, but I've felt that way it seems for years; its certainly nothing new to my weight loss i.e. I don't think its coming about as a sign that I'm under-eating for my current activity and body weight. However, as I reflected on it last night, I realized something HAS changed. While my usual default feeling during the day is lethargy, I realize that I AM getting more activity in for the same level of lethargic feeling as I did before. While I did push mow and walk and do yard work and house work and DIY projects before I lost 145 lbs, it wasn't exactly to the same levels I am doing now - and I definitely wasn't walking 5 miles a day or doing cardio at the same time. So at least I'm getting more done even if I feel the same!
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bmeadows380 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »@bmeadows380
How many exercise calories did you give yourself for the 8 mile walk and how many for the yard mowing? The 8 mile walk for me would be no less than 840 calories and the mowing would be at least 1200 and probably over 1500 by the way you describe it.
@NovusDies
I counted 118 minutes of the 8 mile walk which was 679 calories. The first 2 hour pushing mowing session I counted 105 minutes which gave me 1008 calories burned, but I gave up logging after the second push mowing session and the family cookout as I had lost track of time and food intake when I didn't have cell coverage to figure out what mom's meal might have consisted of. If I had been counting, I probably would have counted another 45 minutes at least, which would have put me in the neighborhood of 1500 calories counted for the grass mowing on Saturday. But I probably could have counted more for that grass since it was over knee high grass that really should have been brush hogged (I lifted the mower's front up and made a first pass, then came across it again for the second) which took a lot of power to push through, especially when I hit the softer ground and began fighting the ruts left by dad's tracker. I finally gave up after getting to where the ground was just too soft and too rutted to fight the push mower over - the grass was much wetter there, too, and clogged the mower too badly to continue.
Yeah, I was probably under-counting my calories burnt, which is why I wasn't too too concerned about going over on my eating either day. Especially with as hot as it was on Saturday. I didn't get dehydrated, though - I made sure to keep drinks and sunscreen and I sweated like crazy but never showed the signs of being dehyrated - had plenty of potty breaks during that day!
@bmeadows380
Yeah the mowing was probably ~2000 and you are only giving yourself 85 calories per mile. That is definitely too low. I am between 105-110 per mile and you should be slightly higher than me not lower.
@NovusDies
I think its the mental game - my mind wants to balk at seeing 1,000+ calorie burns
It doesn't help that I'm constantly see warnings in other threads about not burning as many calories as people think they do. I'm still having a hard time considering myself an active person lol (yes, I know - we've been rounds on that one before 
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I'm hoping to get some more mowing in today if the weather holds. I'm using MFP's database entry and 75%, but I'll monitor my effort and if its takes more than I think it is going to take (I'm working on my grandfather's property next door that has only been mowed once, but the section I'm mowing today he did get mowed that once so it's not as high as the other was). It'll be fun trying to figure out the hedge trimming entry, though.
I've already gotten over 14,000 steps in today thanks to the walk this morning, vacuuming and steam mopping the house, then doing 25 minutes cardio.
*laughs* looking at all that plus what I intend to do this evening, I'll admit that I probably count as very active today at least, or very, very active!
Do you think you are winning the mental game with your spells of less food control? Seems to me you are not. I would strongly suggest eating 100 percent of your calories on your crazy active days and if you know a day like that is coming eat 100 percent the day before too. The ability to bank and average a deficit over several days is lessened at higher activity levels. There was a time it wouldn't matter if at 800 calories one day and caught it back up over the next 2. Now, because I am so active and I am depleting my glycogen just about everyday I can't handle anything more than an additional 250 calorie deficit. If I push that over a few days I will end up sick again.
It took me some time to cross the threshold of erring on the side of slightly more fuel than I need than less but I know that is correct if I want to be this active and maintain a sensible and sustainable approach. That stretch of time I went through a couple of months ago was quite miserable. After 10 days of a break where I ate at a surplus and had an extremely large overfeed day I was still not consistently feeling better so I had another large overfeed day. I crossed back over to normal just before my 2 week break ended. It is hard to tell right now with the scale results influenced by the heat but my best guess is that I regained 3 pounds.
I would doubt you are in danger of going through that amount of sickness yet but I do not know for sure. My tolerance for one-off large deficit days has declined with my weight. I will say that all of this started with less food control back in December. After that I had a few single day episodes of fatigue, headache, and feeling terrible which taught me to eat more. It was the mistake in thinking my watch could keep up with my week of landscaping that made me get sick and stay that way.
Winning the mental game I'm not, I know, but the battle with head hunger is just life. It gets worse this time of year, or after I've been trying to lose weight for an extended period of time. I've been battling it really ever since I took my diet break in June. But I don't know if its an issue of under eating my activity level or not because the scale has been very slow since then as well. I was supposed to be on track to clear 1.5 - 1.75 lbs a week on average since then, but right now I'm barely seeing 0.75 to 1 lbs/week average. At the same time, water weight has been a big problem since dog days set in, so who knows what the actual loss is. I admit I lost track of the spreadsheet; much of my activity this summer has been impossible for me to figure out how to track since my fitness tracker isn't capturing it. So with as sluggish as the scale has been in the last 7 weeks, I'm leery of actually recording 100% calories that MFP says I should have burned for fear of it stopping completely. Its been taking a lot of mental fortitude just to stick to the plan of staying with 75% instead of dropping down even more.
I do feel tired a lot, but that's been life for the last several years at least; fatigue is nothing new for me, so I can't say its a sign that I'm under eating for my activity levels. Everyone tells me when they see my weight loss that "oh, you must feel so much better now and have loads more energy!" but the truth is, no, I don't. I don't feel any different than I did before and much of what I get done is because I have to get it done. I have increased my walking of course, so my activity has increased so maybe that is wiping out whatever energy gains I might have gotten. But it don't matter whether I'm in steep deficit or eating maintenance, my energy levels don't really boost.
I know I have a whole lot less reserves than I did before, so over doing it or too little eating can have a much bigger effect sooner than it did before, which is why after diet break, I really tried to slow down the loss rate since I was 3 lbs/wk before the break (I just wasn't trying to slow it down to what I'm at now!) My sleeping patterns right now I think are more of a contributor to flagging energy, and I'm come to the conclusion that I'm going to have to break down and buy a new mattress; the one I have is 5 years old, and it was a cheaper model offline so that's the max of its lifespan. Its rather frustrating to be dragging all day long, finally get to bedtime only to find myself wide awake or unable to stay asleep for long periods. I really, really wish I could just start my workday around 10 AM or so....
I want to get to 220 lbs by October 1st if I can. I'm working now to get my brain onboard with the idea of taking an extended diet break from October through the holidays, or for 3 months, first, because its the holidays and there's always food involved, and second, because I've been in deficit mode since January of this year and with being 60 lbs or less away from goal, I know I need to take more breaks and I figure a 3 month period after 9 months of deficit could be good for me in ways beyond just practicing maintenance eating.
There is so much going on there.
The people that are claiming too much exercise calories generally fall into 3 groups:
1) They use a heart rate monitor but their recovery time is really slow.
2) They use gym machine estimates
3) They use wishful thinking (theirs or the entries of others)
You can rely on steps for calories most of the time to at least capture that much of your activity. It would not get it all, as I have learned the hard way, but it should get you closer than your across the board 75 percent system. If you want to do 75 percent of your other exercise do that but give yourself full credit for steps.
The only good rationale for knowingly under-reporting your exercise calories is that you typically eat quite a bit more food calories than you report and it is an offset.
My concern in reading your posts is the physical stress you are under at the moment. Between the heat, lack of quality sleep, potentially not fueling your activity properly, and your internal turmoils about plateauing you may be helping to create the very problem that you fear. I am really glad you have a vacation coming up.
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There is so much going on there.
The people that are claiming too much exercise calories generally fall into 3 groups:
1) They use a heart rate monitor but their recovery time is really slow.
2) They use gym machine estimates
3) They use wishful thinking (theirs or the entries of others)
You can rely on steps for calories most of the time to at least capture that much of your activity. It would not get it all, as I have learned the hard way, but it should get you closer than your across the board 75 percent system. If you want to do 75 percent of your other exercise do that but give yourself full credit for steps.
The only good rationale for knowingly under-reporting your exercise calories is that you typically eat quite a bit more food calories than you report and it is an offset.
My concern in reading your posts is the physical stress you are under at the moment. Between the heat, lack of quality sleep, potentially not fueling your activity properly, and your internal turmoils about plateauing you may be helping to create the very problem that you fear. I am really glad you have a vacation coming up.
I can say that on most days lately, I've been going over, but usually no more than 200 calories. It seems that if I go over even by one calories, my brain says "oh well, going over a little more isn't going to hurt!" only the little more that the brain wants ends up being a lot more! Its funny the way we can recognize the pitfalls in the road in front of us, but seem to fall into them anyway. There's many things in my life that the cautious, prudent, sensible and realistic side of myself screams itself hoarse at me over but I can't seem to put its advice into practice.....
It is hard, though, to actually count 500-600 steps for 1 1/2 hour 5 mile walk when you see so many others telling people that claim that many that they are claiming too many calories. I realize those folks who only get 300 or so calories for the same speed and time frame are substantially smaller than I am, but its still hard to grasp that a 50-75 lb difference in body weight can really mean that many more calories burned.
I also realize that I can't be 100% dead on accurate with my logging, either. I weigh as much as I can, but there are some things that I just by the package - frozen vegetable mixes, for instance, I'll just claim whatever the serving size says it is, or a packaged meal, or such. So I had always considered using only 75% of my activity calories as making up for the inaccuracies in logging.
Life for me is stress - I've been searching for years for a way to alleviate the main culprit behind my stress but have yet to figure out just what kind of job I would actually be suited for, so until I ever figure out what it is I want to be when I grow up (since the one, hidden thing that I wanted most of all isn't available to me), I'm stuck, though at least it does pay the bills. I hope the vacation helps, though I wish it was a solid week just me, myself, and I - my dad and sister are stressers themselves.
I did buy a new mattress yesterday, which should be here next week. Now I just have to figure out how to get rid of the old one......
Meanwhile, the last several days of activity coupled with TOM in 48 hours and the bad sleep and the stupid early get up times I've been trying to get (I really, really wish there was a better way of getting more daylight time in than getting up at stinkin' 5:30 AM to try to get a walk in), I'm really struggling today to stay alert. I've got a half day scheduled today because I have to take one of my cats to the vet at 2 pm. I think instead of cardio, I'm going to try to squeeze a nap in this afternoon first. If its not raining when I get back, I'll go on a walk that I didn't get this morning since I forgot to charge my fitness tracker and it was too weak for me to use it. If its raining, there's always the elliptical. I use the preset settings on it which is typically up to a resistance of 8 or 10 and go a minimum of 30 minutes and try for an hour if I'm missing my walk. I've been using 75% of the 3 mph walk for that session because the elliptical entry seems really high to me based on my efforts - an hour's use of the elliptical usually barely gets my heart rate past 100 and results in about 5,000 steps.2 -
Ouch, @bmeadows380 I didn't realize you were struggling.
First of all, you're at about month 8 since January of re tackling your deficit, correct?
Plateau like results at about six months of deficit is extremely common.
I echo Novus's caution about not ignoring the larger deficits created by activity. And will confirm that with less energy reserves it becomes more important to fuel the activity
In fact I will now offen eat something energy dense on my way out to a long dog walk, and I've multiple times cut short a walk at an hour (instead of going on to two) because I am dragging due to under fuelling even though I may actually feel full because of a previous high volume low cal meal.
You also did lose fairly fast as I recall. What has been your average deficit % the past few months?/4-6 weeks?0 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »
There is so much going on there.
The people that are claiming too much exercise calories generally fall into 3 groups:
1) They use a heart rate monitor but their recovery time is really slow.
2) They use gym machine estimates
3) They use wishful thinking (theirs or the entries of others)
You can rely on steps for calories most of the time to at least capture that much of your activity. It would not get it all, as I have learned the hard way, but it should get you closer than your across the board 75 percent system. If you want to do 75 percent of your other exercise do that but give yourself full credit for steps.
The only good rationale for knowingly under-reporting your exercise calories is that you typically eat quite a bit more food calories than you report and it is an offset.
My concern in reading your posts is the physical stress you are under at the moment. Between the heat, lack of quality sleep, potentially not fueling your activity properly, and your internal turmoils about plateauing you may be helping to create the very problem that you fear. I am really glad you have a vacation coming up.
I can say that on most days lately, I've been going over, but usually no more than 200 calories. It seems that if I go over even by one calories, my brain says "oh well, going over a little more isn't going to hurt!" only the little more that the brain wants ends up being a lot more! Its funny the way we can recognize the pitfalls in the road in front of us, but seem to fall into them anyway. There's many things in my life that the cautious, prudent, sensible and realistic side of myself screams itself hoarse at me over but I can't seem to put its advice into practice.....
It is hard, though, to actually count 500-600 steps for 1 1/2 hour 5 mile walk when you see so many others telling people that claim that many that they are claiming too many calories. I realize those folks who only get 300 or so calories for the same speed and time frame are substantially smaller than I am, but its still hard to grasp that a 50-75 lb difference in body weight can really mean that many more calories burned.
I also realize that I can't be 100% dead on accurate with my logging, either. I weigh as much as I can, but there are some things that I just by the package - frozen vegetable mixes, for instance, I'll just claim whatever the serving size says it is, or a packaged meal, or such. So I had always considered using only 75% of my activity calories as making up for the inaccuracies in logging.
Life for me is stress - I've been searching for years for a way to alleviate the main culprit behind my stress but have yet to figure out just what kind of job I would actually be suited for, so until I ever figure out what it is I want to be when I grow up (since the one, hidden thing that I wanted most of all isn't available to me), I'm stuck, though at least it does pay the bills. I hope the vacation helps, though I wish it was a solid week just me, myself, and I - my dad and sister are stressers themselves.
I did buy a new mattress yesterday, which should be here next week. Now I just have to figure out how to get rid of the old one......
Meanwhile, the last several days of activity coupled with TOM in 48 hours and the bad sleep and the stupid early get up times I've been trying to get (I really, really wish there was a better way of getting more daylight time in than getting up at stinkin' 5:30 AM to try to get a walk in), I'm really struggling today to stay alert. I've got a half day scheduled today because I have to take one of my cats to the vet at 2 pm. I think instead of cardio, I'm going to try to squeeze a nap in this afternoon first. If its not raining when I get back, I'll go on a walk that I didn't get this morning since I forgot to charge my fitness tracker and it was too weak for me to use it. If its raining, there's always the elliptical. I use the preset settings on it which is typically up to a resistance of 8 or 10 and go a minimum of 30 minutes and try for an hour if I'm missing my walk. I've been using 75% of the 3 mph walk for that session because the elliptical entry seems really high to me based on my efforts - an hour's use of the elliptical usually barely gets my heart rate past 100 and results in about 5,000 steps.
Stress is cumulative. If you can't do anything about the bigger culprits knock out the smaller ones. Go for easy wins.
I see no reason why you should be continually worried about plateauing and regaining a chunk of weight. Despite the fact you had a couple of regressions it is not a recipe you must follow. That is your imagination and it is a lie. Imagine better. Imagine yourself strong and competent. That is not a lie. You have day after day of deficit to prove you are fully capable of losing most if not all the weight you want to lose. You also give good advice to others.
I have mentioned that my identity shift is primarily 'Relentless'. What you might not know is that he is the 'super' version of me. He is strong and capable of amazing things. When I slip into my phone booth and put on my relentless suit I can walk further and faster. I can bounce back from any adversity and continue to progress towards wherever this leads. There is a super version of you too.
Your heart rate does not dictate calories burned. Nor does sweat or how tired you might feel. If you move your arms and legs for a full hour it is going to burn a lot of calories. How many is it giving you?
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MFP thinks I burned over 1000 calories in the pool for 95 minutes....me thinks I did not but I burned a lot and I noticed I am getting biceps muscles!...back of my arms are a sight but those muscles are looking good!...
Stress can do wicked things to us mentally and physically....my poor husband got injections in his spine two weeks ago for pain from stenosis and it did not help at all....in mid August he is going to have 5 needles put directly into his spinal column and will have to be asleep for the procedure....his RA is progressing at an alarming rate and his RA doctor doesn’t know how much longer he will be mobile if he doesn’t get it into remission....if these injections don’t work, he is going to have biological meds infused directly into his muscles Intravenously to avoid the meds from attacking his pancreas....three different drugs have caused him to develop pancreatitis....needless to say, I am very concerned with his health and not sleeping very good most nights....at this time he can not get his shoes and socks on by himself which is a minor thing but he hates asking for help!....hopefully these doctors will get him some relief soon....meanwhile I am taking on more and more of the usual household chores and errands...our kids help but they really do not understand how difficult it is to start losing your independence....
Enough whining....others have it much worse....some days are just more stressful than others....4 -
Ouch, @bmeadows380 I didn't realize you were struggling.
First of all, you're at about month 8 since January of re tackling your deficit, correct?
Plateau like results at about six months of deficit is extremely common.
I echo Novus's caution about not ignoring the larger deficits created by activity. And will confirm that with less energy reserves it becomes more important to fuel the activity
In fact I will now offen eat something energy dense on my way out to a long dog walk, and I've multiple times cut short a walk at an hour (instead of going on to two) because I am dragging due to under fuelling even though I may actually feel full because of a previous high volume low cal meal.
You also did lose fairly fast as I recall. What has been your average deficit % the past few months?/4-6 weeks?
@PAV8888
I don't know if its just the summer heat or what, but I haven't been able to regain the momentum I had going back in the spring before the diet break - or at least, that's the way it feels to me. And I know from my own personal experience in the last 2 times I lost a lot of weight that this is definitely the time frame - 6 to 7 months in - where I slow down to a plateau; its what happened before.
It could be that I'm just not used to being this lightweight so my body doesn't have the energy reserves I'm used to it having before? The heat and humidity definitely aren't helping, either. Water weight has been a real bear the last several weeks too and makes it hard to figure out for sure what my loss rate has been. My happyscale trend weight has finally gotten down to 229 lbs. But I'm still seeing more recordings in the 230-231 lb range than not. There was one day last week where I registered 227.2 lbs, but that was one day and all the rest around it were 230-232 lbs, so I don't know if I should consider it as a true weight or not. On 6/11 when I came off my diet break, I was 237.5 lbs.
If I go by the HappyScale trend weight, that puts me at about 1.1 lb/wk loss rate on average over the last 7 weeks. If we go by that lowest recorded weight of 227.2 lbs, that bumps the rate to 1.47 lbs/wk, which is actually right on track since I was shooting for 1.5 lbs/wk. And that's with eating back 75% of exercise calories. I just keep getting distracted by the water weight noise I guess, coupled with a low mood for the last couple of weeks - the paths my thought life has been drifting down has been a struggle, I admit - I need better distractions and that vacation. too bad I can't afford a month vacation - some long term time away from my job would be a very big blessing in the stress area, but I don't have the vacation time or ability to take that sort of break.
I am dragging today for sure but I shouldn't be surprised, I suppose - along with poor sleep, its been hot, and after walking and jiu-jitsu on Friday, I pushed mowed the equivalent of 4 hours in the heat on Saturday, walked 8 miles on Sunday, and after walking nearly 6 miles and cardio yesterday, I then push mowed another 30 minutes and did an hour of heavy duty trimming around the yard. Yesterday alone had 20,000 steps. Allergies could also be part of my problem, too, especially with me being around all that cut vegetation. I truly am surprised that I only had 1 small patch of poison ivy!Stress is cumulative. If you can't do anything about the bigger culprits knock out the smaller ones. Go for easy wins.
I see no reason why you should be continually worried about plateauing and regaining a chunk of weight. Despite the fact you had a couple of regressions it is not a recipe you must follow. That is your imagination and it is a lie. Imagine better. Imagine yourself strong and competent. That is not a lie. You have day after day of deficit to prove you are fully capable of losing most if not all the weight you want to lose. You also give good advice to others.
I have mentioned that my identity shift is primarily 'Relentless'. What you might not know is that he is the 'super' version of me. He is strong and capable of amazing things. When I slip into my phone booth and put on my relentless suit I can walk further and faster. I can bounce back from any adversity and continue to progress towards wherever this leads. There is a super version of you too.
Your heart rate does not dictate calories burned. Nor does sweat or how tired you might feel. If you move your arms and legs for a full hour it is going to burn a lot of calories. How many is it giving you?
@NovusDies
If only I could follow my own advice sometimes lol The idea of imagining myself as strong and competent is anathema to me, honestly. Certainly not in the list of words that the "other" part of myself brings to mind. And while I can recognize that part of myself is super-critical, demanding, and unrealistic in its expectations, recognizing that and learning how to shut it down or at least silence it? That's one I haven't figured out. I can try telling myself all sorts of things, but underneath, the belief just isn't there, and telling myself over and over doesn't seed that sort of belief, either. The deep-seated critical evaluations are rooted extremely deep and I haven't found a way to get that root dug out yet. And the trend of my thoughts lately aren't exactly all sun and roses; I think I've had a little too much solitude lately......
As for calorie counts, even though today was a flagging energy day for me and I ended up taking an afternoon nap, I couldn't stand ending the day with 3,000 steps, so I went for a 5 3/4 mile walk today. I did it in 1 hour 44 minutes, with my normal gait of 3.3 mph. To get a value from MFP's numbers, I enter my time in the 3 mph entry and the 3.5 mph entry, subtract the two values, divide that by 5 then multiply by 3 to get a value for 3.3 mph.
Doing all that, if I count the full 1 hour 44 minutes, MFP says I earned 651 calories back. My fitness tracker says I earned 806 calories. Supposedly, my average heart rate was 99 bpm, and I walked around 10,000 steps (It doesn't give me the steps for the activity itself and says my total steps for today is 13,000).
651 calories for 1 hour 44 minutes seems steep to me, let alone the 806 the fitness tracker claims. That was why I was cutting it back to 75% of that. I suppose I could try counting 100% of the walk calories since that is a steady pace, and keep to 75% of the other activity calories since those things aren't usually steady like the walking.
Then again, if I go with the 227.2 lbs ultimate low I recorded, then I am on the 1.5 lb/wk track I wanted to be, so perhaps I shouldn't mess with anything and keep using the 75% across the board? But I am feeling fatigued and don't know if its because of lack of sleep coupled with the heat and humidity coupled with a ton of activity, poor thought life lately, and stress (and this week TOM being 48 hours away), or is it a warning that I'm under fueling activity? If I'm losing at the 1.5 lbs/wk I wanted should I change up or keep going as I am?
I can say that I'm not dehydrated. I work hard to keep enough fluids in especially when i'm working like I did this weekend, and I didn't experience any of the warning signs of dehydration, so I don't think that is a factor in any of this.3 -
@conniewilkins56 - I'm so sorry your husband is struggling with his health. That sounds stressful and exhausting for both of you (emotionally and physically). Kudos for continuing to take care of yourself during all of this. Hoping the injections will give him some relief and remission.
@bmeadows380 - Sleep is the single most important thing I do to manage stress (and anxiety). Long term job stress and unhappiness is no fun and really wears on you too. Hopefully the new mattress will help some, and give you more energy to deal with the things you can't change as easily!0 -
Bmeadows...hugs....is there any way you could take a ME day?....you know, maybe go and get your hair trimmed or a pedicure or just take a day to pamper yourself....maybe drive to a larger town, have a nice lunch or personal shop for new make up or something girly?....go to a museum or art exhibit that is open....when I have a really bad week or I feel down, my husband always tells me to just take a drive and go shopping for a while...spending money makes me feel good!...even if it’s only $20 dollars!....I hope you feel more energetic and relaxed soon...you are so much more than you give yourself credit for....I hope you know there are real people here who care about you!...2
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conniewilkins56 wrote: »Bmeadows...hugs....is there any way you could take a ME day?....you know, maybe go and get your hair trimmed or a pedicure or just take a day to pamper yourself....maybe drive to a larger town, have a nice lunch or personal shop for new make up or something girly?....go to a museum or art exhibit that is open....when I have a really bad week or I feel down, my husband always tells me to just take a drive and go shopping for a while...spending money makes me feel good!...even if it’s only $20 dollars!....I hope you feel more energetic and relaxed soon...you are so much more than you give yourself credit for....I hope you know there are real people here who care about you!...
thanks, Connie!
spending money, unfortunately, is part of the stress - I've spent too much in the last few weeks. I am taking tomorrow off, though - I was supposed to go help the best friend move this weekend, but she called today and asked to push it to next weekend. I work a 9-80 schedule so I was supposed to have my 9-80 day this week but was saving it to Thursday so I could have an extra day to help her move. Since I don't need it for Thursday after all, and since I must take it this week as it is in this pay period, and since the company won't let me use Friday, I decided to take it tomorrow instead. I plan to have biscuits and gravy for breakfast (though I've figured out how to keep that under 400 calories lol) so that's something of a treat
Meanwhile, I'm going to try sleeping in my guest room bed tonight and see if I sleep any better until my new mattress comes in. while the mattress is older there, its a memory foam one and hasn't seen as much use (I rarely have guests to use it) and is on a platform bed. Of course since it won't be my bed or my room, that may not help, but I figure it can't hurt to give it a try! At least I can sleep in past 5 am in the morning since its my day off!1 -
@bmeadows380 I will ask you a different question.
You have so many reasons for water weight fluctuations listed in your post it's not even funny.
-stress, sleep, exercise, TOM, ALLERGIES. Other than sodium and air travel and food in gut are you missing any?
Please ignore how fast or slow or exactly on target you are.
You know that success means that you're in this for the long haul, right?
You're here next year. You're here in five years, though, hopefully, at maintenance.
The numbers you threw a minute ago tell me you're losing at 1+ lbs a week. Is it more and closer to 1.5? Probably. But it is not slower than 1lb. And it also doesn't *sound* as if it is faster than 1.5lbs at this stage
So.... let's think this through.
If you're losing at 1lb, and thinking about how you feel and how you're eating right now, would / could you long term sustainably eat less to lose faster?
I don't hear anything you're saying is sounding as if eating less would be a sustainably good idea.
So I don't think eating less is an option.
Now, if you were confirmed losing at 1.5, would you move towards eating more to lose slower?
If so, by how much?
+0 to continue losing at 1.5?
+125 to lose at 1.25?
+250 to lose at 1lb?.
What would you pick in terms of a smaller deficit?
Remember the discussion about this being long term and you trying to figure out long term solutions?
Regardless of your current rate, increasing by any of the above amounts would not stop weight loss.
But your gut reaction to the question tells us where you may want to be looking at in terms of a sustainable caloric intake.
Sustainably moving in the right direction beats near term speed.
If you said that you would increase intake to slow things, then do so anyway.
If you said that you wouldn't, then continue as is (75% and all)
---Connie best wishes to you and husband: what a stressor this must be
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Thank you PAV8888.... husband is only 66 but worked many hours a week in our family business for many years....hopefully the doctors will find him some relief soon....I always worked in our business but I didn’t worry about the book work,taxes,money, etc...being more responsible for things is not my cup of tea...
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conniewilkins56 wrote: »MFP thinks I burned over 1000 calories in the pool for 95 minutes....me thinks I did not but I burned a lot and I noticed I am getting biceps muscles!...back of my arms are a sight but those muscles are looking good!...
Stress can do wicked things to us mentally and physically....my poor husband got injections in his spine two weeks ago for pain from stenosis and it did not help at all....in mid August he is going to have 5 needles put directly into his spinal column and will have to be asleep for the procedure....his RA is progressing at an alarming rate and his RA doctor doesn’t know how much longer he will be mobile if he doesn’t get it into remission....if these injections don’t work, he is going to have biological meds infused directly into his muscles Intravenously to avoid the meds from attacking his pancreas....three different drugs have caused him to develop pancreatitis....needless to say, I am very concerned with his health and not sleeping very good most nights....at this time he can not get his shoes and socks on by himself which is a minor thing but he hates asking for help!....hopefully these doctors will get him some relief soon....meanwhile I am taking on more and more of the usual household chores and errands...our kids help but they really do not understand how difficult it is to start losing your independence....
Enough whining....others have it much worse....some days are just more stressful than others....
I would never say the bolded to you. You are going through a tough period. Your husband is going through a tough period. Your entire family is going through a rough period. Nothing anyone else is going through alleviates it. A man that loses a foot may not be as bad off as a man that loses two legs but that will not regrow the foot.3 -
@PAV8888
Air travel is about the only thing I don't have an issue with on that list, and that's because I haven't flown anywhere since 2007 lol
I already know better than to try to slash my deficit again right now - right now I have it set at 1500, which is closer to lightly active than sedentary according to MFP's guided setup, plus exercise calories, and if I'm struggling to stay within that, I know there is no way I'd be able to stick to anything lower.
This morning, after getting 8 hours (more or less, since there was 1 or 2 wakeups in that), I weighed in at 227.6 lbs, so it seems that is indeed a true weight reading (too bad it probably won't show up tomorrow when i actually record my weight!), which would be the 1.5 lbs/wk rate I was shooting for, which means things are as bleak as my brain wants to make it out to be because of water weight issues. So I stick the course, including the 75% exercise calorie thing, though I might still go with increasing the walking calories to 100%.
A steady weight loss that I can see is what I need - it doesn't have to be a huge amount, but I need to be able to see that what I'm doing is working, so long term water weight issues masking results leads me to thinking I'm doing something wrong. Which I know is a thinking pattern that needs changed, since the lighter I get, the more water weight is going to mess with results.
Perhaps a big part of it is that I have not been this light in over 25 years; I can't remember what it was like or what to expect! I didn't realize how light I'd gotten until I compared a picture of where I am now to what I was in high school and realize that yes, I am way lighter than I was at my high school graduation; the last time I weighed in at 227 lbs I had to have been something around 13, 14 years old? that was a LONG time ago! lol
I'd like to keep the 1.5 lbs/wk rate for a while. If you go by BMI charts, the maximum I should weigh is 164 lbs, meaning I still have 63 lbs to go, so 1.5 lbs/wk should be a good, sustainable and healthy rate for me to use. Any slower than that, and I know water weight is going to be an even bigger issue.
I'm not actually shooting for the 164 lbs, anyway - I know I don't have the fortitude to be so precise as to get to that weight; when I get to the point where I need to drop to 0.5 lb/wk deficit and be tight and absolutely accurate with my logging, then I know I'll have to stop because I don't have it to be that controlled. But I'd like to get to somewhere between 170-180; and stay within that range, so I need to lose another 50 lbs or so. I'd like to be in that range because its solidly below 200 lbs and has me solidly in the overweight range, not the obesity range. Of course, if I can get the scale to 175 lbs, reality might actually be close to the 164 lbs just because of the amount of flabby, empty skin I have hanging on me......
Wow - I had forgotten that when I started losing weight in 2017, I started at a BMI of 57. My BMI is currently 34.6 - that's 22.4 points lower!
My big goal right now 220 lbs - that was the number I set back in 2017 when I started losing weight, and that's been a number in my head for a long time to shoot for as it was something that I thought I might perhaps be able to hit. After that, it look like 197 lbs will be my next goal as that is the maximum end of the overweight range for me, and would also have me back under 200 lbs for the first time in probably 30 years of my life.
So while apathy, mental fatigue, and over all down feelings are a fight right now for me, I haven't totally given up on goals!
Trying to pace myself is a bit of a problem. I'm finding that lately part of my brain wants to do way more than what my body is able to keep up with. Yesterday, for example. I was dragging all day, just not wanting to move at all, and even took an hour's nap and had trouble getting up from that. Part of me just wanted to veg out in front of the computer or even just go back to bed; but another part detested seeing only 2000 steps on my fitness tracker. So I gave in and went for a walk.
The sensible part of me, knowing hte fatigue I was feeling, wanted to opt for only a 4 mile walk as that would get my steps up to around the 10,000 mark and satisfy my goal for the day, but another part of me kept wanting to push it to the extreme and keep going. I managed to work out a compromise and went 5 3/4 miles, reminding the pushing part of my brain that wanted to keep going beyond the halfway point that I set that just because I still felt okay at the halfway point doesn't mean I should push it further than that because I still need energy enough to make it back home! The pushy part pouted, but the sensible part won out.
But I'm fighting that battle a lot, it seems, lately. One part seems to think I have the energy of an active 20 something year old, but another part firmly remembers that I'm an obese 40 year old and don't have those kind of energy stores!1 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Ouch, @bmeadows380 I didn't realize you were struggling.
First of all, you're at about month 8 since January of re tackling your deficit, correct?
Plateau like results at about six months of deficit is extremely common.
I echo Novus's caution about not ignoring the larger deficits created by activity. And will confirm that with less energy reserves it becomes more important to fuel the activity
In fact I will now offen eat something energy dense on my way out to a long dog walk, and I've multiple times cut short a walk at an hour (instead of going on to two) because I am dragging due to under fuelling even though I may actually feel full because of a previous high volume low cal meal.
You also did lose fairly fast as I recall. What has been your average deficit % the past few months?/4-6 weeks?
@PAV8888
I don't know if its just the summer heat or what, but I haven't been able to regain the momentum I had going back in the spring before the diet break - or at least, that's the way it feels to me. And I know from my own personal experience in the last 2 times I lost a lot of weight that this is definitely the time frame - 6 to 7 months in - where I slow down to a plateau; its what happened before.
It could be that I'm just not used to being this lightweight so my body doesn't have the energy reserves I'm used to it having before? The heat and humidity definitely aren't helping, either. Water weight has been a real bear the last several weeks too and makes it hard to figure out for sure what my loss rate has been. My happyscale trend weight has finally gotten down to 229 lbs. But I'm still seeing more recordings in the 230-231 lb range than not. There was one day last week where I registered 227.2 lbs, but that was one day and all the rest around it were 230-232 lbs, so I don't know if I should consider it as a true weight or not. On 6/11 when I came off my diet break, I was 237.5 lbs.
If I go by the HappyScale trend weight, that puts me at about 1.1 lb/wk loss rate on average over the last 7 weeks. If we go by that lowest recorded weight of 227.2 lbs, that bumps the rate to 1.47 lbs/wk, which is actually right on track since I was shooting for 1.5 lbs/wk. And that's with eating back 75% of exercise calories. I just keep getting distracted by the water weight noise I guess, coupled with a low mood for the last couple of weeks - the paths my thought life has been drifting down has been a struggle, I admit - I need better distractions and that vacation. too bad I can't afford a month vacation - some long term time away from my job would be a very big blessing in the stress area, but I don't have the vacation time or ability to take that sort of break.
I am dragging today for sure but I shouldn't be surprised, I suppose - along with poor sleep, its been hot, and after walking and jiu-jitsu on Friday, I pushed mowed the equivalent of 4 hours in the heat on Saturday, walked 8 miles on Sunday, and after walking nearly 6 miles and cardio yesterday, I then push mowed another 30 minutes and did an hour of heavy duty trimming around the yard. Yesterday alone had 20,000 steps. Allergies could also be part of my problem, too, especially with me being around all that cut vegetation. I truly am surprised that I only had 1 small patch of poison ivy!Stress is cumulative. If you can't do anything about the bigger culprits knock out the smaller ones. Go for easy wins.
I see no reason why you should be continually worried about plateauing and regaining a chunk of weight. Despite the fact you had a couple of regressions it is not a recipe you must follow. That is your imagination and it is a lie. Imagine better. Imagine yourself strong and competent. That is not a lie. You have day after day of deficit to prove you are fully capable of losing most if not all the weight you want to lose. You also give good advice to others.
I have mentioned that my identity shift is primarily 'Relentless'. What you might not know is that he is the 'super' version of me. He is strong and capable of amazing things. When I slip into my phone booth and put on my relentless suit I can walk further and faster. I can bounce back from any adversity and continue to progress towards wherever this leads. There is a super version of you too.
Your heart rate does not dictate calories burned. Nor does sweat or how tired you might feel. If you move your arms and legs for a full hour it is going to burn a lot of calories. How many is it giving you?
@NovusDies
If only I could follow my own advice sometimes lol The idea of imagining myself as strong and competent is anathema to me, honestly. Certainly not in the list of words that the "other" part of myself brings to mind. And while I can recognize that part of myself is super-critical, demanding, and unrealistic in its expectations, recognizing that and learning how to shut it down or at least silence it? That's one I haven't figured out. I can try telling myself all sorts of things, but underneath, the belief just isn't there, and telling myself over and over doesn't seed that sort of belief, either. The deep-seated critical evaluations are rooted extremely deep and I haven't found a way to get that root dug out yet. And the trend of my thoughts lately aren't exactly all sun and roses; I think I've had a little too much solitude lately......
As for calorie counts, even though today was a flagging energy day for me and I ended up taking an afternoon nap, I couldn't stand ending the day with 3,000 steps, so I went for a 5 3/4 mile walk today. I did it in 1 hour 44 minutes, with my normal gait of 3.3 mph. To get a value from MFP's numbers, I enter my time in the 3 mph entry and the 3.5 mph entry, subtract the two values, divide that by 5 then multiply by 3 to get a value for 3.3 mph.
Doing all that, if I count the full 1 hour 44 minutes, MFP says I earned 651 calories back. My fitness tracker says I earned 806 calories. Supposedly, my average heart rate was 99 bpm, and I walked around 10,000 steps (It doesn't give me the steps for the activity itself and says my total steps for today is 13,000).
651 calories for 1 hour 44 minutes seems steep to me, let alone the 806 the fitness tracker claims. That was why I was cutting it back to 75% of that. I suppose I could try counting 100% of the walk calories since that is a steady pace, and keep to 75% of the other activity calories since those things aren't usually steady like the walking.
Then again, if I go with the 227.2 lbs ultimate low I recorded, then I am on the 1.5 lb/wk track I wanted to be, so perhaps I shouldn't mess with anything and keep using the 75% across the board? But I am feeling fatigued and don't know if its because of lack of sleep coupled with the heat and humidity coupled with a ton of activity, poor thought life lately, and stress (and this week TOM being 48 hours away), or is it a warning that I'm under fueling activity? If I'm losing at the 1.5 lbs/wk I wanted should I change up or keep going as I am?
I can say that I'm not dehydrated. I work hard to keep enough fluids in especially when i'm working like I did this weekend, and I didn't experience any of the warning signs of dehydration, so I don't think that is a factor in any of this.
What you believe is a lie. Your self-criticisms are unfair and unbalanced. You have accepted this as part of your identity which may even make you protect it because even though it is dark and negative it is "what you know".
What you believe can change. It is very likely that you learned something new even in the last month or so that unseated something else you thought was true.
The part of you that shows up when it is time to give advice and help others is just that, a part of you. It requires confidence and even a touch of arrogance to suggest you might have an answer to someone's question. Especially when dealing with weight loss which I have found some people stick to their myths with a religious fervor.
The same darkness you face is the same that everyone faces. Everyone has those thoughts. The book I am going through at the moment is largely about professional athletes who have had to come up with coping mechanisms to overcome their brand of darkness that holds them back in critical moments on the field.
My mind is a bus terminal. Thoughts coming in and going out constantly. Many of them are utter nonsense and that is how I label those buses. Some of them are alarming initially and they catch me off guard but I remember it is a bus terminal and send them on their way. Some of the time when my awareness is high I can be quite condescending to my thoughts. I will be sardonic and say something like "cute" or "nice try" or "thanks for visiting, buh bye now." But that is my coping mechanism. Thoughts are helpful or hurtful. They do not define me as a person. I am not weak for having unruly thoughts.
Chances are you have a coping mechanism now for thoughts that you more readily accept as wrong. You go to church but I bet from time to time you have thoughts that are contrary to your faith or system of beliefs. I would hate to think you mentally flog yourself each time your mind wanders off exploring the notion of whether or not God exists.
If your terminal has buses that refuse to be dismissed you may need help clearing the jam and that is when therapy might be of assistance.
On to calories. If I walk 5 3/4 miles I will earn a little over 600 calories. You should earn a little more. You are making the mistake of waiting for scale confirmation to determine your rate of loss. There will be times when you just have to take a leap of faith in the process and know that your losses are going to show up later.
But more to the point...
If you are fatigued then it is worth an experiment to see if more calories will help even if it is just a little help. If that means your rate of loss drops to 1 pound per week that is what it means. Fatigue is miserable and constant misery is a weight loss killer. It is what drives us to think that eating whatever we want whenever we want is more appealing. That is a lie but it is an easy one to believe when feeling bad all day is the alternative.
If you are not eating enough and that is at least part of the reason you are fatigued from my experience it gets worse... much worse. Remember that it took me 2 weeks to recover last time I screwed up. In every instance before then it was a single day of feeling poorly. If I recall correctly it took Annpt more than a month to recover when she finally realized she was not eating enough.
Your protection against large energy drains is diminishing. I was unprepared for this new reality. I was accustomed to the fat stores and they meant that I could bank large amounts, even 50 percent, of my calories in a single day if I wasn't feeling hungry. I managed myself by a 7 day calorie average which sometimes dipped to ~300 below calorie goal but when it did I just added another high calorie treat meal to bring it back up.
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@conniewilkins56 Connie: Hang in there...looking back at my own experience as a caretaker for my late wife, I often neglected my own health and wellbeing....but the effort you're putting into your own health is going to pay dividends in the future, as you continue to care for your husband. You are an inspiration to me!2
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I did sleep better last night - but it was probably more of being able to sleep 2 more hours into the morning. I would have liked 1 more hour, but a certain cat of mine was "starving" and wanted me up........
I then proceeded to get a personal best in for a walk - 8.39 miles. I went the opposite direction this time, that I had never walked before. I drank almost a whole bottle of water on the way, then stopped at the gas station and bought a second (a conveniently placed gas station as I needed a potty break lol). I also picked up lunch at the attached Taco Bell and splurged on a half cut tea and a Little Debbie fudge round, but considering the heat and the distance, I think they did the trick in refueling me for the second half of the walk home. Now I want to go work on trimming more of the weed growing on the bank, then I need to figure out what I'm going to have for dinner. And even after drinking a protein shake when I got home, I still need 83g of protein in - and I still haven't counted whatever activity time I get in this afternoon! *shakes head*
Hmmm. Deviled eggs may just be on the menu tonight......
I did count the entire 2 hours and 28 minutes for that 8.39 miles, which actually I walked a little faster than normal - 3.4 mph instead of my normal 3.3 mph. I wonder if the refueling part way had anythign to do with it. Just to experience, I think I'll pick up a box of granola bars or Little Debbie cakes and start taking one with me on my walks and eat halfway there. I know I don't feel nearly as tired as I thought I would and I'm not sleepy-headed this afternoon, at least!1 -
@bmeadows380 having read the advice you give to others all I can say is that you should listen to your own advice!!!
Don't give me the I *have* to have scale confirmation and I cannot cope with water weight routine!
At the best at maintenance the scale will give you a general direction. If it is giving you more than that, you're overcorrecting...
I don't like this feeling of fatigue you're talking about. Especially for the first couple of years (or even more) you should be feeling like superwoman and floating on air!
For months now I see posts from you agonizing whether you are indeed losing as fast as your deficit predicts that you would, and time and time again you discover that you're (within reasonable margins) losing at the rate you suspected and expected.
There is no minimum speed that is appropriate.
Moving in the right direction is the only thing that is important.
And ensuring you can continue to move forward for as long as you need and want to.
Getting motivated *primarily* by the scale is long-term unsustainable unless you are willing to accept ranges of results with equanimity
Being motivated and happy that you hit your targets for weekly food intake, for daily/weekly activity, for exercise because you've hit all these within a reasonable margin (bracket) and then occasionally reviewing that the targets are set correctly based on your review of weight trend feedback is a much more sustainable path.
If you are **thinking** that you should be eating slightly more calories because you're pushing yourself too hard, that increase (and resultant consequent slow down) is already overdue.
When you're done losing, you're looking at several years to stabilize at your new weight and your new eating and moving patterns. There is no shortcut to that if you want to maintain. Neither you (nor I) get to avoid having to deal with ongoing weight management for the foreseeable future--not if we want to escape regain.
So you have to get into a zone where things are simple enough to keep going.
In other words sustainability.
And depending on scale feedback for that sustainability is very hard if you're at a headspace where you're not willing to accept ranges of results and general directions as being good enough!!!
I don't care that (technically/mathematically) eating 100% of walk calories is the wrong calculation (I have already explained to you why that is)
If the result is that you will eat a little bit more and lose a little bit more slowly... then it is the correct result based on the general discussion
(From where I'm sitting your inputs and expectations seem to be matching. In other words when you expect to lose 1.5 pounds you're pretty much doing it. So I would be tempted to not mess with my percentages but to instead change my loss rate target. But that's me. And let's face it mental gymnastics are a big / the biggest part of handling all this!!!!)
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Btw, little Debbie, try... California medjool dates!!!! (though they also add up if you're not careful!) 😹2
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It is no wonder I have a man crush on @PAV8888.
The other thing to guard against is that I believe all of us that have been in long term deficits are on the spectrum that further along is disordered thinking. I have recognized some unhealthy thinking and habits in myself but because I recognize them and do not let them take hold I feel confident I am still on the mostly healthy side.
Waiting for scale confirmation is a possible loophole. I kinda sorta knew back in December and January that I might not be eating enough but I used the TDEE system and I based my eating on my previous numbers adjusted up for more activity. I figured I was fine because I just came out of a lengthy maintenance period for recovery and I could afford to be a little wrong until the scale gave me new information. Luckily the first set of scale results came in pretty quick and I made my first upward adjustment. I should have erred on the side of eating more than I needed and adjusted down instead of playing the *wink* game with myself and eating less and allowing extra loss.
I am definitely not willing to go down that path anymore. I would so much rather lose a little slower than feel bad which didn't happen in January but did happen in the Spring (that time an honest mistake). Just last Saturday I felt the surge of energy from eating maintenance on Friday to prepare for the charity event. It is remarkable. I know I don't get to live there quite yet but man I do not want to be too far away from it either.2 -
@Pav8888 I know, I know - physician heal thyself lol
I have never felt like super woman ever. In fact, I'm noticing lately a decrease in strength or at least what feels like it. I know I need a strength training regimen but its not something I want to start into without guidance out of fear of using incorrect forms and hurting myself, and I can't afford a personal trainer right now nor do I see where I'm supposed to fit that into my daily life schedule as it is. Other than a couple of days back in the spring where I felt a little ansty to be moving, whether I weighed 375 or 227, I just always feel "tired". But truthfully, I don't think the fatigue is so much physical fatigue but more a physical response to mental fatigue. How to fix that? Got a cool $150,000 loose somewhere so I can quit my job and spend a year getting to know myself? lol
I honestly didn't plan on changing anything - I swear! I just wasn't see where I was being as active as before summer got here. In the spring, I was walking 4-5 miles a day, 30-45 minutes elliptical sessions, and 24-30 minute cardio sessions. Then summer hit, and its down to trying to walk 5-6 miles a day, and cardio maybe twice a week, and I might use the elliptical once a week. Of course I added in a day a week or so of yard work, but it seemed like my activity had fallen and yet brain hunger was pushing me over my daily calorie limit a lot.
Truthfully, it all really comes back to being in a not so good head space right now. I am trying to be patient but it can be a battle when unreasonable self gets into one of its toddler hissy fits. It took a long time to get myself to accept going to a 1.5 lb/wk loss from the 2 lb/wk loss, because even when I knew I needed to slow down and took the steps to do so, there is still a part of me that considers that "failure". I know, I know - that is unreasonable and a lie and stupid and ridiculous, but its there, and the best I've been able to do is shove it to the side and try to tune it out because I haven't figured out how to shut it up. But we're back to the not so great mental space right now......
mental gymnastics are the pits - if I could solve the mental part, the rest would be a breeze! And just think of the money I could make if I could solve that part in an easy 3 step program - sell it as a new diet plan book, make millions, and get to quit my job and go on a self discovery trip!
I am trying to ride it out; reasonable part of me is trying to calm the other part down and not let the scale get to me and/or accept that slower is still forward and it doesn't matter how long it takes. its not like I have any pressing reason to need to get the weight off fast - I'm not having a pending surgery, I'm not wanting to try to get pregnant and am up against that biological clock (I am up against that clock, but have been working on accepting that children apparently aren't in my future), I'm not trying to get into a tiny wedding dress. I don't have any really pressing reason to need to lose it fast other than my ridiculous unreasonable expectations for myself, and that's the mental game.
I'll ride this out; the mental part comes and goes and likely will start to lighten up next week once TOM gets here and when I go to the friends to help her move. In the meantime, thanks for the tough love pep talk - sometimes we all need one of those! lol
Oh, and I love dates but can't keep them in my house - that's one of those foods that if I have them, I can't stay out of them at all I wish I could find them pre-packaged into individual portions......
@NovusDies
that's the quandry I'm in - I don't want to be under-fueling myself for sure, but I don't want to increase my calories to the point of slowing down to a crawl, either. So I am hesitant to add back 100% of calorie intake. I did do it today and will probably still be over by 100 calories, but I got in over 22,000 steps today, walking 8.4 miles, and then spent 1 1/2 hours trimming thick bamboo like knotweed on the banks around my house, which mean climbing and steadying myself on a steep slope while manhandling a battery powered hedgetrimmer, then spending 30 minutes raking the stuff across the yard to a pile in the corner. In 80 temperature heat. So I figured extra calories today to cover all that is probably needed!
It's a fenceline walking game with me with high stakes - the mental knots in my head are not easy to unravel, and its tricky trying to figure out which pieces are making up the fatigue knot and what string to pull to get it loose - pull the wrong one, and I just tighten up a bunch of others and make an even bigger mess!1 -
Bmeadows I do not really like any kind of eggs but since you mentioned having deviled eggs, they are all I can think about!...definitely on my menu tomorrow!...tyvm0
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bmeadows380 wrote: »It's a fenceline walking game with me with high stakes - the mental knots in my head are not easy to unravel, and its tricky trying to figure out which pieces are making up the fatigue knot and what string to pull to get it loose - pull the wrong one, and I just tighten up a bunch of others and make an even bigger mess!
I love your description of "the fatigue knot and what string to pull...". You have a nice way with words.
I recently went from a 2 lb./week loss rate to 1.5 lb./week. I know I still weigh enough that 2 lb./week is okay but I just felt like my daily calorie allowance wasn't enough. It was also hard for me to make that change. It felt like I was slacking or something. I had to talk myself into accepting that a 750 calorie/day deficit that's sustainable was better than a 1000 calorie/day deficit that felt hard to achieve. I'm still working on accepting that!
I don't have any definite reason I need to lose the weight by a certain date either. I ask myself what will be different in my life when I reach my (yet to be determined) goal weight and the answer is really not much. I plan to keep logging my food. I guess I'll get a few more calories/day but probably not so many at that point that it will make much difference. I don't plan to change what I'm eating. The only other thing is that eventually I hope to have a stable wardrobe. I'm not a fan of shopping and I haven't enjoyed the need to buy smaller clothes. But really, my life won't be that different than it is now so what's the rush? For some reason, I can't stop thinking that I just want to be at goal. I keep needing to remind myself that life really won't be much different when I reach that magical goal weight.
From reading all your posts, I know you got this @bmeadows380 !2 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »@Pav8888 I know, I know - physician heal thyself lol
I have never felt like super woman ever. In fact, I'm noticing lately a decrease in strength or at least what feels like it. I know I need a strength training regimen but its not something I want to start into without guidance out of fear of using incorrect forms and hurting myself, and I can't afford a personal trainer right now nor do I see where I'm supposed to fit that into my daily life schedule as it is. Other than a couple of days back in the spring where I felt a little ansty to be moving, whether I weighed 375 or 227, I just always feel "tired". But truthfully, I don't think the fatigue is so much physical fatigue but more a physical response to mental fatigue. How to fix that? Got a cool $150,000 loose somewhere so I can quit my job and spend a year getting to know myself? lol
I honestly didn't plan on changing anything - I swear! I just wasn't see where I was being as active as before summer got here. In the spring, I was walking 4-5 miles a day, 30-45 minutes elliptical sessions, and 24-30 minute cardio sessions. Then summer hit, and its down to trying to walk 5-6 miles a day, and cardio maybe twice a week, and I might use the elliptical once a week. Of course I added in a day a week or so of yard work, but it seemed like my activity had fallen and yet brain hunger was pushing me over my daily calorie limit a lot.
Truthfully, it all really comes back to being in a not so good head space right now. I am trying to be patient but it can be a battle when unreasonable self gets into one of its toddler hissy fits. It took a long time to get myself to accept going to a 1.5 lb/wk loss from the 2 lb/wk loss, because even when I knew I needed to slow down and took the steps to do so, there is still a part of me that considers that "failure". I know, I know - that is unreasonable and a lie and stupid and ridiculous, but its there, and the best I've been able to do is shove it to the side and try to tune it out because I haven't figured out how to shut it up. But we're back to the not so great mental space right now......
mental gymnastics are the pits - if I could solve the mental part, the rest would be a breeze! And just think of the money I could make if I could solve that part in an easy 3 step program - sell it as a new diet plan book, make millions, and get to quit my job and go on a self discovery trip!
I am trying to ride it out; reasonable part of me is trying to calm the other part down and not let the scale get to me and/or accept that slower is still forward and it doesn't matter how long it takes. its not like I have any pressing reason to need to get the weight off fast - I'm not having a pending surgery, I'm not wanting to try to get pregnant and am up against that biological clock (I am up against that clock, but have been working on accepting that children apparently aren't in my future), I'm not trying to get into a tiny wedding dress. I don't have any really pressing reason to need to lose it fast other than my ridiculous unreasonable expectations for myself, and that's the mental game.
I'll ride this out; the mental part comes and goes and likely will start to lighten up next week once TOM gets here and when I go to the friends to help her move. In the meantime, thanks for the tough love pep talk - sometimes we all need one of those! lol
Oh, and I love dates but can't keep them in my house - that's one of those foods that if I have them, I can't stay out of them at all I wish I could find them pre-packaged into individual portions......
@NovusDies
that's the quandry I'm in - I don't want to be under-fueling myself for sure, but I don't want to increase my calories to the point of slowing down to a crawl, either. So I am hesitant to add back 100% of calorie intake. I did do it today and will probably still be over by 100 calories, but I got in over 22,000 steps today, walking 8.4 miles, and then spent 1 1/2 hours trimming thick bamboo like knotweed on the banks around my house, which mean climbing and steadying myself on a steep slope while manhandling a battery powered hedgetrimmer, then spending 30 minutes raking the stuff across the yard to a pile in the corner. In 80 temperature heat. So I figured extra calories today to cover all that is probably needed!
It's a fenceline walking game with me with high stakes - the mental knots in my head are not easy to unravel, and its tricky trying to figure out which pieces are making up the fatigue knot and what string to pull to get it loose - pull the wrong one, and I just tighten up a bunch of others and make an even bigger mess!
Sounds to me like even with being 100 calories over you are probably still in more of a deficit today than you realize.
The waters are muddy for you and me right now. It is apparent that without more experience CO will be harder to judge in the summer months. The week I screwed up I should have been eating at a higher activity level within MFP in addition to all my exercise calories. That is a crazy notion but the outcome was pretty clear. I thought I was in an average of 411 calorie per day deficit after eating my goal plus an average of 1400 calories per day from my watch but it was obviously at least 500 more in deficit. If I had eaten what I thought was my maintenance calories I would have probably been fine and still lost a pound that week. In other words I was likely burning somewhere around 1900 calories a day in movement. That is insane. Of course I was exercising each morning before doing hard physical labor for several hours. It shocks me what I am capable of now.
So I have embraced the reality that at the end of the summer I might have a decreased rate of loss because the smart choice is to aim high. If it happens it won't be a failure because I prioritize learning how to manage myself above the rest. The numbers going down will end. Management is forever. I need to know how all of this works so I do not end up sick.
3 -
@bmeadows380 please listen to yourself describe your day... and compare to I sat in front of the computer all day except for coffee and washroom breaks and maybe a phone call pacing in the yard and then went for a two hour and a tinge walk with the dog.
Guess what. With an I "sat in front of the computer and went on a two hour walk with the dog" without counting the walk separately, and with the "slight cheat" of the walk being "off road" as opposed to on pavement (and with me continuing to walk ahead even when the dog sniffs around) I can get to MFP very active calories! And that's at about 16K steps.
You are so focused on ramping up, you're not realizing how much forward you've already come.
The issue is not about being good or bad. The issue is that you're letting your old "I'm good/I'm bad" motivations and inner dialogue potentially put you in danger of self sabotage.
Because by clamping down and doubling down to push forward faster you're setting yourself up for an increased delayed reaction when you eventually come out of deficit instead of trying to avoid and mitigate any such future reactions.
Your progress over the years says PROTECT THE LOSS FIRST;
push for even better results SECOND.
BUT, you are ACTING:
.... FULL STEAM AHEAD AND DAMN THE TORPEDOES, I WANT MORE LOSS NOW.
But the torpedoes are still out there.
Write out the data you have based on your results over the past 8 months / year since you started making a push.
Then send them to @NovusDies and have him return them to you so as to have a look at the progress results of Sky Rover--a LL participant @NovusDies recently recruited!!!
Then tell us what you would advise Sky Rover to do based on her results and how she's been feeling!
Flexibility and adaptability are your friends
1 -
I ended up more like 200 over today, but like you said, with what I was doing, I was probably in more of a deficit than I could figure - the only entry in MFP that I could find to use was gardening, general, and really, what does that actually mean? I doubt it means quite the physical labor in the heat I was doing for an hour and a half! And I ended up with the extra 100 over because I picked up some more prunes this evening, and those are another food I have difficulty keeping to a single serving. I wouldn't keep them in the house except prunes are excellent for "plumbing" health and this time of year especially, I need all the help I can get! And I'd rather have the actual prune with its fiber content than switch to prune juice; also, a serving of the juice has more calories than a serving of the dried. Though I wish the darn things weren't so expensive......
Tomorrow morning, I hope to get a walk in, and plan to eat a little more before and take one of my fudge rounds with me to eat about halfway through and see if that supports my theory about fueling more for the walk resulting in a faster pace. I had been having 1 slice of toast with 1/4 serving of peanut butter on it before I went on my morning walks and saving breakfast until 9 am or later to keep from snacking too much in the AM; so I'm going to try upping that pre-breakfast food for the walk and just knocking down the amount I'm eating at the 9 AM breakfast - not a big deal as I'm planning on oats and that just means leaving out the butter, which doesn't bother me.
On the energy front, I thought of something this evening while talking to my mother: I don't feel any more energetic than I did before (my brother, lucky rascal, is one of those types where weight loss gives him triple the energy he had before), however, I am doing a LOT more than before, so if I look at it that way, then I'm getting a lot more done for the same level of fatigue that I was feeling before, so really, I do have more energy than i did, I'm just not noticing it!
I'm working on unreasonable self now in planning the next diet break. I'll be due in October anyway for one, and my reasonable self is planning to extend it all the way into January 2021. Unreasonable self is kicking, but let it kick - a 3 month maintenance break can be good for me for a lot of reasons as well as help with the holidays. The tricky part is going to be the downturn in activity levels since I walk outdoors and where I live, winter weather isn't all that conducive for that. The good news is that the company has now extended our return to work date to January 11th, meaning that even with the time change and the shorter days, I'll be home when work ends and will still have some time in the evenings to walk; when I go into the office in the winter months, I'm usually coming home close to dark and leave to go to work in the dark, so I'd never have time to walk then.
Winter gets here and I'll see cardio sessions go back up and that elliptical is going to get a lot of use, too!2 -
@bmeadows380 please listen to yourself describe your day... and compare to I sat in front of the computer all day except for coffee and washroom breaks and maybe a phone call pacing in the yard and then went for a two hour and a tinge walk with the dog.
Guess what. With an I "sat in front of the computer and went on a two hour walk with the dog" without counting the walk separately, and with the "slight cheat" of the walk being "off road" as opposed to on pavement (and with me continuing to walk ahead even when the dog sniffs around) I can get to MFP very active calories! And that's at about 16K steps.
You are so focused on ramping up, you're not realizing how much forward you've already come.
The issue is not about being good or bad. The issue is that you're letting your old "I'm good/I'm bad" motivations and inner dialogue potentially putting you in danger of self sabotage.
Because by clamping down and doubling down to push forward faster you're setting yourself up for an increased delayed reaction when you eventually come out of deficit instead of trying to avoid and mitigate any such future reactions.
Your progress over the years says PROTECT THE LOSS FIRST;
push for even better results SECOND.
BUT, you are ACTING:
.... FULL STEAM AHEAD AND DAMN THE TORPEDOES, I WANT MORE LOSS NOW.
But the torpedoes are still out there.
Write out the data you have based on your results over the past 8 months / year since you started making a push.
Then send them to @NovusDies and have him return them to you so as to have a look at the progress results of Sky Rover--a LL participant @NovusDies recently recruited!!!
Then tell us what you would advise Sky Rover to do based on her results and how she's been feeling!
Flexibility and adaptability are your friends
@PAV8888
I know - I'm looking at the trees and missing the forest I promise, I'm not changing anything other than maybe adding a few more exercise calories back in certain situations or at least as long as I'm working in this summer heat. And I am firmly committing myself to taking an extended diet break this fall, which will be some practice in maintenance eating as well and learning to keep the trend around the same even if the daily scale goes up and down.
I'm also prepping myself now because that scale is going to be up tomorrow morning from the 227.6 lbs this morning, I know. Besides that I got well over 22,000 steps in today, TOM is due in less than 48 hours which means water retention. Which means my weekly weight record weight will be up, but oh well - it'll average back out over the next few weeks.
The fact that I can't see how far I've come is driving my best friend crazy, too. I honestly cannot see the difference in myself in the mirror, other than my jaw line is more defined and I don't have the back rolls I did before. Otherwise, the "muffin top" and the "apron" and the fatty, jiggly arms I see when I look down and to the side seem to register to my brain that its no different than before. I KNOW its different - I'm down 6 dress sizes, for pity's sake - I just can't really see it until I do a side by side with a picture of what I look like now with what I looked like then.
Obviously, in addition to my physical eyes now needing glasses to see clearly, my inner mental eyes apparently need glasses as well lol1
