Food...control...the endless loop
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That was more of an abstract/theoretical comment. I've seen a disordered eating counsellor for ??? five years and that has been an experience and taught me things. But she really really really isn't keen on the calorie counting/deficit concept - because - according to her/research - that is exactly the kind of the that triggers a bout of disordered eating (which flavour depends on your history - bulimia, anorexia, binge eating) and will ultimately lead to "failure." At the end of the day she offered assistance and her experience - but none of it helped address the need to lose weight.3
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I’m not sure what “ordered” eating would be? Did the counselor explain the difference and how to get to orderly eating?
Honestly any insight on triggers and solutions would be welcome.1 -
Intuitive eating would be the ultimate goal - I guess that is "orderly" ????
= not obsessing about food - what to eat, what not to eat. I tell her about this group all the time - how hard we are all trying to find that balance. PAV should have a workshop with her - so she can learn about incorporating weight loss into disordered eating treatment.
I haven't seen her in a few months.
We actually have a really decent relationship - and she respected what I was trying to do - and hoped for my success. But she was very cautious - and encouraged me to be cautious. My success in maintaining for over a year was surprising to her. I'm not looking forward to seeing her next - which I guess is why I haven't booked an appointment since January.
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Ah - intuitive eating! I confess I despair ever succeeding at that. I feel like it’s a daily negotiation between me and eating. Mercifully so far this time around I am able to maintain an equilibrium.
I plan out the day however. For a while earlier this year I was doing a lot of grab and go eating and it wasn’t working well. Weight went up a few pounds and I didn’t know what to do about the uncontrollable snacking.
I’m now at my lowest weight in three years. I wish I could tell you what changed but suddenly I was back in control. It’s like someone flipped a switch! If I could bottle that secret ingredient .....2 -
I have control until I don’t!2
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lauriekallis wrote: »That was more of an abstract/theoretical comment. I've seen a disordered eating counsellor for ??? five years and that has been an experience and taught me things. But she really really really isn't keen on the calorie counting/deficit concept - because - according to her/research - that is exactly the kind of the that triggers a bout of disordered eating (which flavour depends on your history - bulimia, anorexia, binge eating) and will ultimately lead to "failure." At the end of the day she offered assistance and her experience - but none of it helped address the need to lose weight.
I both agree and disagree with a lot of the counselors on that. But then again I don't disagree at all--highly depending on the individual.
A LOT of it, in my mind, is related to the HOW, WHY, and with what SUB-TEXT it is applied. Same actions, but different situations!
Furthermore, I am almost 100% convinced (and I've seen it with myself that the SIZE OF DEFICIT MATTERS and this is not a necessarily conscious process, even though you might consciously be able to observe it. Maybe not on day one. But quite probably by day 181. The larger (and longer) the deficits are applied... the more likely for "disordered" stuff to occur. Now if the "disordered" or 'weird" stuff... is obsessing over developing low calorie brownies (not sure why I would pull that out of my past
), well I can live with that. If the disordered stuff is to use the calories information and logging to systematically deny nourishment in an attempt to punish or control to the detriment of health.... different story!
(have to continue later!)3 -
Back to this one.
I saw (zoomed with) the disordered eating counsellor on Friday. And, despite her reluctance to accept calorie deficits etc. I know she was sad to hear of my loss of control and significant weight gain. Because she knew/saw how happy it made me and how overall my eating was quite healthy. I think she like me breaking the rules and being successful.
So - she set me this immediate plan. To keep a food diary.
Basic stuff that we have all done/hear before. What I eat, when, why. Only that for 2 weeks. No trying to manage/control CICO. Day 2 and you know I think this will be effective in bringing about a change. It is just so much freakin' work!2 -
lauriekallis wrote: »It is just so much freakin' work!
heh, heh, I had to chuckle on that... it is like my "lobster defence theory"... they (crab legs too) are just too much work to keep eating them so you eat less of them! (money MAY have something to do with it too! ) One of the first things that MFP did for me was cut-down on harder to log foods and little tastes and bites that started being too much frigging work to log!!!! 2 -
lauriekallis wrote: »So - she set me this immediate plan. To keep a food diary.
Basic stuff that we have all done/hear before. What I eat, when, why. Only that for 2 weeks. No trying to manage/control CICO. Day 2 and you know I think this will be effective in bringing about a change. It is just so much freakin' work!
I am actually thinking of doing this for a few weeks before trying to log on here again. Since logging calories HAS lead to disordered eating for me. Usually I swing to the overly restricting route because I try to keep my calories lower then my goal... and then lower... and then lower. Then I get sick and go off plan, leading to anxiety and depression. Not a good cycle!
But a basic log of what, when, and why may be a good start for me. I have to do something. I can't keep living like I am. This is not the life I want for myself.2 -
Let's do it, Athijade. I get caught in the same cycle myself. Don't want to anymore. I know what I should do - but can't seem to get there.
Another day of questionable eating. But maybe developing a bit more understanding? Being on a mission to understand - not control - is a strange. Normally I am so busy feeling bad/guilty/ashamed of eating too much/binging that it is hard to get a handle on the why. Other than the obvious. I'm not sure I have any answer yet - but there are some niggly, suprising ideas.2 -
lauriekallis wrote: »It is just so much freakin' work!
heh, heh, I had to chuckle on that... it is like my "lobster defence theory"... they (crab legs too) are just too much work to keep eating them so you eat less of them! (money MAY have something to do with it too! ) One of the first things that MFP did for me was cut-down on harder to log foods and little tastes and bites that started being too much frigging work to log!!!!
I get that. But what I was referring to was the work of understanding the reasons for binging. It is a lot of work to figure out what is going on inside my brain/guts! But, maybe if I do, all the wonderful things I've learned here (much from you, PAV ) will have a chance to have a positive effect on my journey to a healthy weight.
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lauriekallis wrote: »Let's do it, Athijade. I get caught in the same cycle myself. Don't want to anymore. I know what I should do - but can't seem to get there.
I started the document today! Logging what I eat, what time I eat, and any notes about how I feel or why I picked what I picked. For example, I am sipping on a Sprite this morning because I am very nauseated due to illness. Sprite helps settle my stomach.
But I am not logging calories or amounts of food. One step at a time.2 -
I'm not quite there yet. Working on understanding "why" - but not writing anything down yet. That is kind of tough to face at the moment.3
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I'm impressed to hear of your efforts you two! And your insights will be welcomed!1
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trying
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lauriekallis wrote: »I'm not quite there yet. Working on understanding "why" - but not writing anything down yet. That is kind of tough to face at the moment.
The why is hard for sure. Like last night I wanted ice cream. Not a problem, I believe in all things in moderation. But I had a HUGE bowl of ice cream. Why did I have so much? No idea. I wasn't hungry. I know now I would have been fine with a single scoop. But I still served myself like 3+ scoops. Is it because I DIDN'T think about what I was doing and just went through the motions? Maybe. That is kinda what I am leaning towards.
So I need to be more mindful of what I do. Lesson 1. Now to actually do it.3 -
My usual excuse is that it "tastes good". And "I'm not too full".
But my "I'm too full" to continue eating what "tastes good" is well above the line of where it should be...
Plus it will "perk me up", or "soothe me" or, most often "warm me up"... Of course all repeat dosing does in the end is end up increasing my weight!!!🤷🏻♂️3 -
I think I will try this, too…kind of lol1
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Perk me up/energize me is a common one for me - and soothe me. I've been surprised to discover "numb me/disable me" when I've hit overwhelm and can't allow myself to shut down.2
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Empty - when I feel empty like bored, lonely, anxious.... it’s as if there’s a void that I’m trying to fill up.1
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Empty - when I feel empty like bored, lonely, anxious.... it’s as if there’s a void that I’m trying to fill up.lauriekallis wrote: »when I've hit overwhelm and can't allow myself to shut down.
That's a good combo. I'm now trying to process this!
Figuring out if it can relate to late night "inertial" eating that could probably be easily remedied by going to sleep... but, like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum, eating copious quantities of calories instead of going to sleep....1 -
PAV - the late night eating is one I experience too - sometimes needing the sugar/carbs to keep the brain going (which I think is a legitimate method - unfortunately it results in weight gain so more realistic expections would be a better solution.
The one I've encountered lately is more of a middle of the afternoon thing - full out bingeing which kind of leaves me comatose so there is nothing I can do but flip the computer to youtube and nod (and turn the phone off of course because there are those people on that end waiting on me).
Next level of the "why" - why do I so badly want to do that? It is one a step beyond why am I eating this now - and one step beyond "soothing oneself" ... this is murky nasty tear inducing water to poke around in. Makes me want to eat something 1 -
Why did I open a box of gift giving cookies?! hmm...2
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Good question.
Do you buy into the idea of sugar addiction? I do...but I also think it is part of the equation. I'm not going to do it before Christmas - but shortly after doing a detox.
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So made the decision to wait until after the first of the year to start logging food as discussed above. Why? Because I am still fighting this illness and so my eating is all over the place based off of my energy and what I have in the house.
Plus I decided I want to record it in a notebook or something instead of on a Google Doc. That way I don't have to have access to a computer or phone to do it.3 -
Not much control for a while! Because.......
Mercifully there are no New Years celebrations in my future. We have a two-day out of town vacation next week and dealing with restaurants. But I can start better choices on Monday because there won’t be those overly calorie laden “traditions” to deal with.2 -
Thank goodness 2023 is just a hop skip and jump away!
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Okay. Today I tracked for the first time in ????
My mucked up knee is a serious reminder of how much of an issue it is to be carrying around extra weight.
Looking for your brilliant input here
I'm not sure how much weight I have gained....not it all back, but I'm guessing about half. I haven't weight myself in a bit.
Part of me just wants to track at a modest deficit for this month...to try and avoid going to extremes...and wait until the end of the month before I weight myself. To avoid that emotional shock until I have some successful weeks under my waistband (no belt necessary).
Any thoughts? Do you think it better to bite the bullet right away? Or does waiting make sense????4 -
I think Laurie it’s an individual decision. I’m a bite the bullet person. When I’m ready - I’m ready. I go full force. I gave up smoking overnight years ago after 15 years of heavy use. I was just DONE.
Of course, getting to that turning point is often a long unpredictable wait for me. I can procrastinate and delay and make excuses for a long time. Then one day something clicks mentally and I go for it. But it’s all about my mindset.
So how someone approaches weight loss depends on what works for that individual. Some need to ease into it. Others like me just tend to be more impatient - or pig headed?
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I tend to be your way to, Yooly. But I'm trying to do things differently this time.
Patience + Moderation = Long term success????
From from early 2020 until I joined this group in October of that year I lost just about 110 pounds. That was no problem. The following year I ended up maintaining while attempting to lose another 20. But then, when I tried to switch to maintenance in preparation for and post surgery - everything just went mad. I still don't fully understand how I let that happen.
A big part of me wants to go back to 1000-1200 calories a day and just get this over with. Again. But why would that work any better than it did last time? Long term I mean
Part of me wonders if I should just avoid weighing myself completely. lol. And just focus on tracking my calories in. For the moment I have set my weight at 170 pounds (where I was when I lost control of it all), my activity level at sedentary (which for the moment is close enough to the truth), and my goal at "maintenance." If I eat at the level I imagine I will lose weight - and theoretically end up weighing 170 pounds? There will be no "shift to maintenance" as I will already be eating at "maintenance."
Writing this has brought me some clarity. I think. Weighing in daily helped me stick to my strict deficit because I got such a charge of dopamine whenever I weighed myself. But that ended and will end again. I need to find something more sustainable.4
