Atheists Go to church for their kids
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If someone I care for invites me to a Christening or a wedding or a funeral and it takes place in a Church, I attend and I keep my opinions to myself.
As any polite person would.0 -
"Church" and "Religion" are big broad terms. Not everybody who goes to church thinks dancing is evil.
The real question is: How do they feel about Kardashians?0 -
And @macpatti I also find it intriguing that you would not support your children's desire to be atheist.
How is this intriguing?
Because "moderates" expect everyone to be ok with whatever choice anyone else makes. Because of tolerance and understanding and yada yada.
It's why I often get along better with Patti than agnostics or people who believe "everyone has their own personal truth and we shouldn't judge." Patti and I have both chosen a side. They may be opposite sides but at least we can relate to one another on that level.
p.s. To any moderates out there.. God is not a moderate. And if he's real he won't be impressed by your little "fingers crossed, hand behind the back" game.
I didn't realize you were on speaking terms.
I find that whenever I pray, I'm talking to myself.
Which sets up an interesting possibility.0 -
The Kardashians are proof that there is a Hell and we're in it.
"Church" and "Religion" are big broad terms. Not everybody who goes to church thinks dancing is evil.
The real question is: How do they feel about Kardashians?0 -
Anyway, I'm still all for education in either sense. And as for the whole "god doesn't believe in moderators" now THAT'S worrisome. Where does this piece of information come from? IF you don't believe in religion, why should you believe ever bit of wording. If God condemns me for being wish washy on religion, but allows a murderer into heaven for believing and confessing his sins. Well, its probably not a place I would want to be anyway.
OH MAN! Do not say that I said "God doesn't believe in moderators"! You trying to get me banned?
I get that information from biblical teaching. Take your choice, Christianity, Judaism or Islam. And most of their little branches.
I agree with you. But we'll both be sharing a bench in hell if we're wrong. If you do not worship whichever God it is I mentioned above, you burn. And that's just the first rule. There are a bunch of others they'd like you to follow as well. From how much of your paycheck you're allowed to keep to what to do with the tip of your son's penis. Follow their rules, commandments, fatwas, etc. or suffer the wrath of God.
Not my rule. And I think the entities credited with them are entirely made up and fictitious. But I don't pretend that God will forgive me just because I'm a nice person. I've read his book, he really doesn't care about that. He wants praise on tap. He'll even take it from a pedophile or a murderer (to use your example).
I don't know the true nature of god or even if such entity exists. However, I am certain that if some some divine incarnation DOES exist, it is nothing like we conceive it to be. When I study religion, to me, it is patently obvious that, throughout history, all religious doctrines have evolved from human perceptions and human guesses about the nature of life and the universe. Some religions say that "god created man is HIS likeness". I say it's just the opposite: Man created god in MAN'S likeness and agreed to forget the joke.
To paraphrase Groucho Marx: I could never follow a god who would want me as a worshipper.0 -
Here is the concept I have difficulty with.
Why would a diety give us the power to think and gain knowledge. Allow it to be combined with a massive planet where your belief structure will be decided on geography as well as racial, ethnic. etc background. Combine THAT with multiple books and scriptures which disagree on many key points. Allow those books to be altered over time by political influence and language barriers/translation interpretation errors....
And then say - but if you dont 'pick' the right path you are out of luck. Burn in hell!
No one said He didn't have a sense of humor.0 -
Buddhism isn't a religion, it's a 'way of being'. I'm interested in it and learned a lot from it, but I am far too selfish to be a buddhist.I can't say for sure what I'd do with my own children, since I don't have any. If I did, I presume I wouldn't take them to church. The few times I've gone, I hated it. It was boring. The people weren't welcoming. I do, however, like to visit Buddhist temples. That's probably due to my personal preference...Buddhism is my favorite "religion." (I still don't understand how it's a religion, since Buddhists are atheist...guess I skipped the explanation of that in Intro. to Religion
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Like many people my age, I dabbled with buddhism and other eastern religions while in college (admit it--how many had a copy of BE HERE NOW--you could only read the damn thing when you were high).
At that time I had not come to reject religion completely--I still thought it was a matter of just finding the RIGHT one. After awhile it became clear to me that buddhism was a reflection of the geography, lifestyle, culture, etc of the place where it originated. In other words, it was a "man-based" religion just like all the others. Plus, I am not very flexible and could never, EVER, sit in a lotus position.0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun
Nice!
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There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun
Nice!
awww thats the sweetest thing anyones said to me all day....you really need to stop being such a charmer im a married woman:blushing:0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun
Nice!
awww thats the sweetest thing anyones said to me all day....you really need to stop being such a charmer im a married woman:blushing:
uhh, it wasn't actually directed to you in particular, it wouldn't make much sense since you are an atheist, I just thought it was funny.0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun
Nice!
awww thats the sweetest thing anyones said to me all day....you really need to stop being such a charmer im a married woman:blushing:
uhh, it wasn't actually directed to you in particular, it wouldn't make much sense since you are an atheist, I just thought it was funny.
And here I thought jesus loved me despite my ****yness (is that a word) C'est la vie0 -
There is this trend on these debate threads where people are hiding behind the illusion of civility, offending huge groups of people, and then getting angry when they get offended. I was reading a post the other day where a person said that certain groups of people disgusted her. I said her behavior disgusted me. But all of a sudden, I'm the bully. What is the difference. And does anyone here know what the heck a personal attack is?
This hasn't been me saying, I don't like you because you stink, this has been me listening to what a persons belief system is, looking at the words they are saying, and attacking that. The posters are just silly jokes, a little flavor in my stew. So you are offended, who cares, so was I. So when I make fun of goat herder religions, bronze age cults, or the non-existant invisible sky jew that seems to be ok with slavery, genocide, and rape, I know you are going to be offended. Good, because religious and national apologists and cowards are the reason atrocities exist, not to mention why the current Pope is still in power even though it is obvious he protected child molestors because he thinks his church is above the law.
Oh pictures ARE fun
Nice!
awww thats the sweetest thing anyones said to me all day....you really need to stop being such a charmer im a married woman:blushing:
uhh, it wasn't actually directed to you in particular, it wouldn't make much sense since you are an atheist, I just thought it was funny.
And here I thought jesus loved me despite my ****yness (is that a word) C'est la vie
Maybe he does, but how do you feel about this?
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I plead the fifth0
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LOL well this thread's gone to *kitten*.0
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LOL well this thread's gone to *kitten*.
C--t cartoons ALWAYS kill threads. You'd think people would learn.........0 -
LOL well this thread's gone to *kitten*.
Thats even funnier when you take the anal sex picture into account0 -
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I'm a very active member of a church populated predominantly with people who were raised in other faith traditions and left them because they could not believe what their families tried to teach them. Talking snakes? Zombies? Goblins are Fairies are real? We're all going to wake back up some years after our deaths and be judged by an enormous old man with a long white beard? Really??? Here recently we've heard that 9/11 was G-d's punishment, brought on by Liberals & gays - which was nice icing on an already stinking cake.I stand by all this. This was my response as to why SOME atheists take their children to church. You know how I came to this opinion? By conversing with other atheists!!! Before I even typed that, I had conversations with some of my atheist friends about the article. Remember that not all atheists are the same, just as all Christians are not.
Based on this, I could easily write a post,,, heck I could write a book filled with nasty adjectives and horrifying stories about the racism, sexism, homophobia, and just general stultifying idiocy of some people of "Faith". I could tell you about my dear friend N, a lady of 90, who was congratulated by the wife of the pastor at the local church on the death of her son. This woman honestly felt that N must be so relieved that the AIDs had killed Jeremy and he was now burning in hell where he belonged. I could tell you about the priest who denied a young woman communion because she was on the pill (a virgin of 13 with an unpredictable cycle and no boyfriend BTW). I could tell you about how my foster son Ben was beaten unconscious by 5 good christian boys for being gay. Do you have any idea how hard you have to kick someone to break a tibia? The kicker was just doing what his pastor had taught should be done. I can go on for days.
I could easily, EASILY do as some have done and conclude that the lifestyle "of faith" (and it IS a lifestyle), is miserable, deplorable. A fountain of hatred and meanness and judgment and stupidity. A wierd little cult where power hungry money hungry hypocrites steal the pennies off of dead ladies' eyes and teach their 'flock' that anybody who doesn't believe exactly as they do is evil and rotten and hellbound and just no damn good. And that's just Pat Robertson. I could draw this conclusion easily based on a lifetime of knowledge and 20 years of membership in a church family where the church service was at noon on sunday and the klan meeting was at 8pm Tuesday and everybody knew it and everybody thought that was just spiffy. I could draw this conclusion based on hard evidence and I could write a post just as nasty as yours - but I can name names.
BUT - I also know many many people of faith who are kind, loving, decent wonderful people. I suspect that you Patti are actually one of these. So, I give the benefit of the doubt. I try to believe that the people who find organized religion to be a pox on humanity - and the ones who prove that it can be - are the minority. I actively try to avoid insulting people for their beliefs. Jesus said "Love your neighbor",,, and "Judge not". Some of us listened.
BTW - many many of the Atheists taking their kids to church are taking them to Unitarian Universalist churches (google it) and I'll bet that's a big part of what that article is talking about. UU'ism is growing. Most followers of traditional theistic religions wouldn't even consider it a church, and I know my aunt Emily would run out screaming. I'd say 3/4 of my church are Atheist or Agnostic. A's taking their kids to UU churches are also often going themselves, and it is a very warm, fulfilling thing to be a part of. We learn values and ethics from all the major faiths, but we do not embrace any of them. We learn lots'a stuff, like "Don't insult the crap out of people who disagree with you". But we do not teach any creed or dogma, we do not preach hellfire. Don't assume that just because there's a steeple on the building we're in there teaching the Nicene Creed.0 -
double0
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BTW - many many of the Atheists taking their kids to church are taking them to Unitarian Universalist churches (google it) and I'll bet that's a big part of what that article is talking about. UU'ism is growing. Most followers of traditional theistic religions wouldn't even consider it a church, and I know my aunt Emily would run out screaming. I'd say 3/4 of my church are Atheist or Agnostic. A's taking their kids to UU churches are also often going themselves, and it is a very warm, fulfilling thing to be a part of. We learn values and ethics from all the major faiths, but we do not embrace any of them. We learn lots'a stuff, like "Don't insult the crap out of people who disagree with you". But we do not teach any creed or dogma, we do not preach hellfire. Don't assume that just because there's a steeple on the building we're in there teaching the Nicene Creed.
We have a few students at our school who attend a big UU church here in Houston. The families I know who attend UU churches claim to be monotheistic, but say many of the members are atheist or agnostic.0 -
Atheists (Which, BTW, should be capitalized the same way Muslim, Christian, etc are)
This is a false statement. The only time atheist needs to be capitalized is when it begins a sentence. Don't want to take a Christian's statement on this? Feel free to refer to any writing by an atheist. Here's a quote from one:
"All proper nouns (names) such as Isam, Mike, Emma and even Jesús are capitalised in the English language. Nouns and adjectives derived from proper nouns are also capitalized, such as “Christian” (derived from “Christ”) and “English” (from “England”). As we have earlier seen, the word “atheist” is not a proper noun nor is derived from one and therefore is not capitalized"~ Atheism.com0 -
My bad. I thought it should be and have often seen it that way (except when written by Christians.)Atheists (Which, BTW, should be capitalized the same way Muslim, Christian, etc are)
This is a false statement. The only time atheist needs to be capitalized is when it begins a sentence. Don't want to take a Christian's statement on this? Feel free to refer to any writing by an atheist. Here's a quote from one:
"All proper nouns (names) such as Isam, Mike, Emma and even Jesús are capitalised in the English language. Nouns and adjectives derived from proper nouns are also capitalized, such as “Christian” (derived from “Christ”) and “English” (from “England”). As we have earlier seen, the word “atheist” is not a proper noun nor is derived from one and therefore is not capitalized"~ Atheism.com0 -
Yes, I said "3/4", most folks would qualify that as "many". Point?BTW - many many of the Atheists taking their kids to church are taking them to Unitarian Universalist churches (google it) and I'll bet that's a big part of what that article is talking about. UU'ism is growing. Most followers of traditional theistic religions wouldn't even consider it a church, and I know my aunt Emily would run out screaming. I'd say 3/4 of my church are Atheist or Agnostic. A's taking their kids to UU churches are also often going themselves, and it is a very warm, fulfilling thing to be a part of. We learn values and ethics from all the major faiths, but we do not embrace any of them. We learn lots'a stuff, like "Don't insult the crap out of people who disagree with you". But we do not teach any creed or dogma, we do not preach hellfire. Don't assume that just because there's a steeple on the building we're in there teaching the Nicene Creed.
We have a few students at our school who attend a big UU church here in Houston. The families I know who attend UU churches claim to be monotheistic, but say many of the members are atheist or agnostic.0 -
We have a few students at our school who attend a big UU church here in Houston. The families I know who attend UU churches claim to be monotheistic, but say many of the members are atheist or agnostic.Yes, I said "3/4", most folks would qualify that as "many". Point?
I was agreeing with you and sharing with you that that's the same thing some of our students say. I wasn't trying to make any point.0 -
Bypassing all the other posts and pics, I'd have to say that I don't really "get" the concept of atheists bringing their kids to church. Why? I get that they want their kids to learn about the world, etc., but what's the point? I'm an atheist because I flat-out think religion is a waste of time and people would be better off without one.
I don't ever plan on having kids, but in the highly unlikely event that I did, I'd support them if they chose to join some sort of religion. I mean, I'd think it was kind of dumb and I wouldn't participate in it with them, but I'd still support them and love them all the same. But I don't think it would be my place to bring them into a house of worship when I'm pretty morally against houses of worship and everything they stand for. It's not like Christian or Jewish or Muslim or all the other religions' parents bring their kids to each religious place so they can "decide for themselves", it's just one of those things where if it happens, it happens. I wouldn't actively prevent my hypothetical children from becoming involved in a religion, but I sure wouldn't be encouraging it.0 -
Bypassing all the other posts and pics, I'd have to say that I don't really "get" the concept of atheists bringing their kids to church. Why? I get that they want their kids to learn about the world, etc., but what's the point? I'm an atheist because I flat-out think religion is a waste of time and people would be better off without one.
I don't ever plan on having kids, but in the highly unlikely event that I did, I'd support them if they chose to join some sort of religion. I mean, I'd think it was kind of dumb and I wouldn't participate in it with them, but I'd still support them and love them all the same. But I don't think it would be my place to bring them into a house of worship when I'm pretty morally against houses of worship and everything they stand for. It's not like Christian or Jewish or Muslim or all the other religions' parents bring their kids to each religious place so they can "decide for themselves", it's just one of those things where if it happens, it happens. I wouldn't actively prevent my hypothetical children from becoming involved in a religion, but I sure wouldn't be encouraging it.
This post = great summary for exactly how I feel, as well! :flowerforyou:0 -
Well that's good. Do they help your folks learn ""Don't insult the crap out of people who disagree with you"?We have a few students at our school who attend a big UU church here in Houston. The families I know who attend UU churches claim to be monotheistic, but say many of the members are atheist or agnostic.
I was agreeing with you and sharing with you that that's the same thing some of our students say. I wasn't trying to make any point.Yes, I said "3/4", most folks would qualify that as "many". Point?0 -
I was agreeing with you and sharing with you that that's the same thing some of our students say. I wasn't trying to make any pointWell that's good. Do they help your folks learn ""Don't insult the crap out of people who disagree with you"?
I'm not sure I understand your question. We never teach our students to insult others for their beliefs that differ from ours.0
This discussion has been closed.