Racial Pride as it pertains to Caucasian People?
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Ok. I fully expect I'll get ripped apart for this. But I'm going to say it anyway.
I see a lot of arguing in this thread about ethnicity vs. skin color vs. culture vs. race, vs. whatever makes a person look the way they do.
Here's the thing: People are people no matter what their appearance. There are people in ever group that love everyone. There are people in every group that hate anyone that doesn't look like them. There are people in every group that only hate a certain set of people because of the amount of melanin in their skin. There are people who hate anyone who looks like they do, and prefers to only see people that look a certain way that they could never achieve.
HOWEVER, all that being said, being proud of a skin color is a little offensive and wrong for EVERYONE, no matter what that skin color is. Saying "I'm proud to be black" is just as offensive as saying "I'm proud to be white." And here is why: Skin color has nothing to do with true heritage and culture. In Africa there are many different countries with difference groups of people and tribes that have different cultures and belief systems. In predominately white Europe, again, there are many different groups of people and tribes that have different cultures and belief systems. In Middle and South America it is the same thing. Different countries with different groups and tribes and different belief systems, cultures and ways of life.
I worked with many Hispanic Americans. The ones with ties to one Hispanic county would get ticked off as heck if they were accused of being from a different Hispanic country. There would be fights break out over that stuff. And then I had a few that would tell me: "I'm from America!"
I am proud to be a mixed up Heinz 57 United States mutt. I'm proud of my German heritage. My grandmother was 100% Belgian. I'm proud of that blood line. I'm proud of my Cherokee, Choctaw, and Black Foot Native American heritages. I'm proud of my British, Irish (brought over as indentured servants), Scottish, Spanish, Mexican, African(three different countries there, can't remember at the moment which ones), Roman, Greek, Dutch, and "Black Dutch" heritages, and many more. Am I proud of EVERYTHING that each of those groups of people have done? No. Certainly not.
But I am proud that I have each of group of people in my ancestry. They have allowed me to have: Very curly, frizzy, hard to manage, very dark brown hair, dark brown eyes, and skin that when I avoid the sun turns as pale as can be and when I spend to much time in the sun gets quite dark. They made me look how I look.
However, it is up to ME to be WHO I want to be and what I want to take pride in.
To the person who started this thread: Kudos to you and your son for tracing his heritage all the way back to North Hampshire, England. He should be proud of both of his lineages. Everyone should be able to be proud and show pride in which ever heritage their ancestors were a part of.0 -
Ok. I fully expect I'll get ripped apart for this. But I'm going to say it anyway.
I see a lot of arguing in this thread about ethnicity vs. skin color vs. culture vs. race, vs. whatever makes a person look the way they do.
Here's the thing: People are people no matter what their appearance. There are people in ever group that love everyone. There are people in every group that hate anyone that doesn't look like them. There are people in every group that only hate a certain set of people because of the amount of melanin in their skin. There are people who hate anyone who looks like they do, and prefers to only see people that look a certain way that they could never achieve.
HOWEVER, all that being said, being proud of a skin color is a little offensive and wrong for EVERYONE, no matter what that skin color is. Saying "I'm proud to be black" is just as offensive as saying "I'm proud to be white." And here is why: Skin color has nothing to do with true heritage and culture. In Africa there are many different countries with difference groups of people and tribes that have different cultures and belief systems. In predominately white Europe, again, there are many different groups of people and tribes that have different cultures and belief systems. In Middle and South America it is the same thing. Different countries with different groups and tribes and different belief systems, cultures and ways of life.
I worked with many Hispanic Americans. The ones with ties to one Hispanic county would get ticked off as heck if they were accused of being from a different Hispanic country. There would be fights break out over that stuff. And then I had a few that would tell me: "I'm from America!"
I am proud to be a mixed up Heinz 57 United States mutt. I'm proud of my German heritage. My grandmother was 100% Belgian. I'm proud of that blood line. I'm proud of my Cherokee, Choctaw, and Black Foot Native American heritages. I'm proud of my British, Irish (brought over as indentured servants), Scottish, Spanish, Mexican, African(three different countries there, can't remember at the moment which ones), Roman, Greek, Dutch, and "Black Dutch" heritages, and many more. Am I proud of EVERYTHING that each of those groups of people have done? No. Certainly not.
But I am proud that I have each of group of people in my ancestry. They have allowed me to have: Very curly, frizzy, hard to manage, very dark brown hair, dark brown eyes, and skin that when I avoid the sun turns as pale as can be and when I spend to much time in the sun gets quite dark. They made me look how I look.
However, it is up to ME to be WHO I want to be and what I want to take pride in.
To the person who started this thread: Kudos to you and your son for tracing his heritage all the way back to North Hampshire, England. He should be proud of both of his lineages. Everyone should be able to be proud and show pride in which ever heritage their ancestors were a part of.
Very well said. :flowerforyou:0 -
Sorry, I'm not going to let you off the hook just yet. While I always appreciate a good back-pedal, I'm still wondering about the term "ethnic looking people". Who are "ethnic looking peopel" to you?Opps. Maybe that was one of those things that sounded good but didn't come out right.
What I mean is some people refer to characterics of their nationatilies in their appearance with pride: curves in latin-american women, tall-beautiful amazon women, dark and handsome Italian men, blue eyed-blone swiss women, african american women with a nice booty.
As I stated: Latino women with dark, eyes, dark hair, tan skin. Asian people have a pretty specific skin tone as well. Italian men tend to be more stocky and dark complected. There's nothing wrong with the term "ethnic looking". It's not a racial slur.
Having spent two weeks in Italy this summer, I can tell you that your description of Italian men is nonsensical --as is the case with most stereotypes.0 -
I'm not saying you're racist. My point of contention is using the term, "ethnic looking people" to refer to anyone not caucasian. Caucasians have ethnicity, too.And your point? I was just showing that the definition of ethnic can include racial characteristics. Those racial characteristics can be praised, desired, whatever unless you are caucasian. Then you become racist.
It's one thing to say, "I love that my skin is pale". It's another to say, "I'm proud that I'm white".One can say "I have beautiful Spanish olive skin" and it's ok. If a caucasian person were to say "I have beautiful American white skin", they would be ripped apart.
And that is exactly what I mean, why can't white people say they are proud to be white???
It's not the "I'm proud to be white" part that's a problem. It's what almost always comes afterwards.0 -
My two oldest are half caucasian/half Hispanic. I've always told them they should learn about their heritage on both sides of the family. On "heritage days" at school, they would write about or dress like their Scottish, Irish, or Mexican heritage. I want them to be proud of their heritage. I just wouldn't condone them saying they're proud to be white or proud to be brown. They should proud to be Scottish, Irish, and Mexican. That was my only point of contention in this thread. Sorry for the derail when I focused on someone else's reply.I know this may open up a can of worms but I am genuinely curious as to how Whites may feel about it not being "accepted" so to speak to be proud to be White.
Before anyone tries to crucify (lol) me, let me say my son is half White. I am Mexican, like born in Mexico and all that.
When my son was in the 1st grade there was some sort of assignment in regards to heritage, and most of the children turned in collages with Hispanic topics. We live in a primarily Hispanic/Latino whatever the politically correct term is blah blah community. He turned in a collage with images of England, Oklahoma (his paternal grandfather is from Oklahoma) and images of White people.
Needless to say we got weird looks. I was pissed. I mean...cmon...we know he's half Mexican, so what's wrong with him expressing his pride in his other half???
What do you all think?
We're never going to stop racism until we stop pointing each other's differences.
You don't have "differences" to point out because you're white and not "other" - or, "ethnic looking," as someone else so kindly stated. White people generally do not think of their race when describing themselves, because they're white, which means that they are in a position of power in society, which means that their existence isn't defined by their race. Being white means that you're not experiencing racism, because it simply doesn't exist for you. Can minorities be bigots toward people who are white? of course, but racist? no.
I have nothing to be "proud" about because I'm white. I can be proud that I'm a Canadian, or Irish, Welsh, or whatever my background may be, but white is not something I pride myself on - and not something I feel shameful of, either, but I'm certainly, not for a second, going to deny my white privilege. This is one subject in which I 100% agree with MacPatti.0 -
My two oldest are half caucasian/half Hispanic. I've always told them they should learn about their heritage on both sides of the family. On "heritage days" at school, they would write about or dress like their Scottish, Irish, or Mexican heritage. I want them to be proud of their heritage. I just wouldn't condone them saying they're proud to be white or proud to be brown. They should proud to be Scottish, Irish, and Mexican. That was my only point of contention in this thread. Sorry for the derail when I focused on someone else's reply.I know this may open up a can of worms but I am genuinely curious as to how Whites may feel about it not being "accepted" so to speak to be proud to be White.
Before anyone tries to crucify (lol) me, let me say my son is half White. I am Mexican, like born in Mexico and all that.
When my son was in the 1st grade there was some sort of assignment in regards to heritage, and most of the children turned in collages with Hispanic topics. We live in a primarily Hispanic/Latino whatever the politically correct term is blah blah community. He turned in a collage with images of England, Oklahoma (his paternal grandfather is from Oklahoma) and images of White people.
Needless to say we got weird looks. I was pissed. I mean...cmon...we know he's half Mexican, so what's wrong with him expressing his pride in his other half???
What do you all think?
We're never going to stop racism until we stop pointing each other's differences.
You don't have "differences" to point out because you're white and not "other" - or, "ethnic looking," as someone else so kindly stated. White people generally do not think of their race when describing themselves, because they're white, which means that they are in a position of power in society, which means that their existence isn't defined by their race. Being white means that you're not experiencing racism, because it simply doesn't exist for you. Can minorities be bigots toward people who are white? of course, but racist? no.
I have nothing to be "proud" about because I'm white. I can be proud that I'm a Canadian, or Irish, Welsh, or whatever my background may be, but white is not something I pride myself on - and not something I feel shameful of, either, but I'm certainly, not for a second, going to deny my white privilege. This is one subject in which I 100% agree with MacPatti.
I think the poster who stated that: "We're never going to stop racism until we stop pointing each other's differences" simply meant that until people need to stop pointing out peoples differences from one another, including the Caucasian skin color. Stop saying: "Oh that one's white and that one's black. That one over there is brown." Simply see all of them as simply people. "Children of the World," as someone once stated.
However, I am going to disagree with you about Caucasian's not being able to experience Racism.
I'm probably going to get blasted for this and told I'm wrong, but:
Actually Caucasians can experience racism. I lived in a very small town, where Caucasians have become the minority. There is a large Hispanic population. When I worked in a processing plant,(worked there 8 years while I built up money to go to college), the Caucasians were the group that was passed over for promotions and treated like we were worthless. I was called a "Fat F
g White B----h" (in Spanish) on several occasions, and told to deal with it. When the women would get sexually harassed, if it was a Caucasian doing the harassment, instant termination. If it was a Hispanic doing the harassment, they got a slap on the wrist because "That's just the way their culture is."
The signs that started going up were only in Spanish. I was lucky enough to have learned a little bit of Spanish and could read them, or I wouldn't have had a clue, like some other workers there.
We had one inspector who was not only racist against Caucasian's but sexist as well. If you were a Hispanic Male, you were pretty much ok. If you were a Caucasian Female, you better be ready to get your stuff busted for even the smallest little thing he could find. Slowly but surely our Caucasians workers started leaving or getting fired. It was accepted by this point that that would happen.
I discussed this in a discussion group at college. I was asked about my experiences in a community where the population was mainly "non-white." You know what many of my classmates told me? "Good! They deserve it! Let the whites see how it feels for a change." In COLLEGE this was said. I just stared at them, shocked. No one deserves racism, discrimination, or prejudice. NO ONE.
Just because Caucasian's have "white privilege" in society at large, does not mean that they cannot experience racism, and discrimination because of their skin color.0 -
White, black, mexican, american, irish, italian, and everyother pride is a bunch of crap. If you want to be proud of something, be proud of your own character and accomplishments. Racial/ethnic pride is only applicable if you are bragging about being the fastest sperm out of your dad's testes. Other than that, what exactly did you have to do with you with it. I've noticed that the more people cling to these notions of pride, usually the less they have gotten done for themselves.0
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has anyone pointed out that the term "caucasian" refers to people from the Southern Caucasus. I mean, unless you're from Eastern Europe / Southwest Asia you're not *really* caucasian. This has always annoyed me.
Being "white" in America has nothing to do with "heritage." Norther European immigrants were very racist against Irish and all Southern European immigrants for almost 100 years in America. Greeks and Italians weren't even considered "white" really.
It's all so very stupid and completely irrational. White pride to me is a negative thing, like being proud of the fact that you LACK qualities that would be ridiculed by others. It seems to me like you can't really have "white" pride without associating it with the socio-economic-racial elite. It seems like an assertion of superiority.
Being proud of heritage is important, but everyone's heritage is unique. I think it's great to teach your children about their roots, where they come from etc, and allow them to find common ground with similar people. I just don't think it's even possible to associate being "white" with heritage at all.
The OP's child seems completely balanced, normal, and adorable. I think you (OP) are doing just fine. Some of the things I'm reading in this thread though? Not so much...0 -
White, black, mexican, american, irish, italian, and everyother pride is a bunch of crap. If you want to be proud of something, be proud of your own character and accomplishments. Racial/ethnic pride is only applicable if you are bragging about being the fastest sperm out of your dad's testes. Other than that, what exactly did you have to do with you with it. I've noticed that the more people cling to these notions of pride, usually the less they have gotten done for themselves.
I love the Italian Americans who are so keen on "reppin" their italian heritage, but cannot SPELL "paesano" and have never been to Italy.0 -
"Ethnic looking" people????I guess I don't understand how it's somewhat acceptable for "ethinc looking" people to show their pride in their appearance, where as that would be unacceptable for a white person.
That would be like me saying "I'm brown and proud". I'm not brown, I'm a sickly pale shade of tan lol.
I curse the person who started the whole "brown and pride" bull****. I hate that people call themselves brown. Why not say you are either Mexican, Argentinian, Salvadoreña, Honduran, etc. Why not say "I'm Mexican and proud" Calling oneself "brown" seems so uncouth.0 -
Should I be proud of my heritage? Or should I be ashamed?
I am White British and in our time we seem to have managed to invade, take over, colonise, discriminate, enslave, rob and generally persecute every race, creed, colour, and gender in our time. Including our own Irish and Scottish cousins.
Answer Yes.
Because we now we have a (reasonably) tolerant and multicultured society.
Why? Because we are all human and as such we all have the capacity to learn from the past and move on to a better future for everyone.
One thing bugs the hell out of me though, we still ask for ethnicity on all kinds of official forms if it won't affect the outcome why the hell ask the question.0 -
One thing bugs the hell out of me though, we still ask for ethnicity on all kinds of official forms if it won't affect the outcome why the hell ask the question.
I hate this too. I think the only place that should apply is with the police. If one gets arrested, I understand wanting an accurate description of the person for future reference. But on an employment application, credit card application , etc... It should be illegal to ask.0 -
I hate this too. I think the only place that should apply is with the police. If one gets arrested, I understand wanting an accurate description of the person for future reference. But on an employment application, credit card application , etc... It should be illegal to ask.
I always decline to identify. It is the law on official forms (employment, census, etc) that you have that option.0 -
One thing bugs the hell out of me though, we still ask for ethnicity on all kinds of official forms if it won't affect the outcome why the hell ask the question.
I hate this too. I think the only place that should apply is with the police. If one gets arrested, I understand wanting an accurate description of the person for future reference. But on an employment application, credit card application , etc... It should be illegal to ask.
On most forms, it is an option--they are using the info to track statistics. It is usually never mandatory that you complete those items.0 -
has anyone pointed out that the term "caucasian" refers to people from the Southern Caucasus. I mean, unless you're from Eastern Europe / Southwest Asia you're not *really* caucasian. This has always annoyed me.
Being "white" in America has nothing to do with "heritage." Norther European immigrants were very racist against Irish and all Southern European immigrants for almost 100 years in America. Greeks and Italians weren't even considered "white" really.
It's all so very stupid and completely irrational. White pride to me is a negative thing, like being proud of the fact that you LACK qualities that would be ridiculed by others. It seems to me like you can't really have "white" pride without associating it with the socio-economic-racial elite. It seems like an assertion of superiority.
Being proud of heritage is important, but everyone's heritage is unique. I think it's great to teach your children about their roots, where they come from etc, and allow them to find common ground with similar people. I just don't think it's even possible to associate being "white" with heritage at all.
The OP's child seems completely balanced, normal, and adorable. I think you (OP) are doing just fine. Some of the things I'm reading in this thread though? Not so much...
Thank you! :flowerforyou:0 -
How can anybody be proud of something that they had no absolutely no influence or control over?0
