Metabolism Reset - Eating at TDEE Support Thread
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Maybe I need a hand calculating my correct TDEE? I am just worried that I may not be doing this right?
Female
CW 192.6
hight 63 inches
age 34
activity I work 40 hours a week, more than half I sit at a desk, I do wonder around on the floor, not at any amount of pace though.
I have two kids at home. ages 5 and 8.
I work out on my elliptical 4 x per week at about 30-40 minutes and I also do some kettle bell exercises at that time as well.
This was created exactly for doing this, getting best estimates of everything and allowing progress tracking, and getting reasonable deficit based on amount to lose and type of workouts.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker
Stay on Simple Setup tab.0 -
I have started my 3rd week of reset on monday and I have already up 6 lbs, can you believe it? The amount of weight i lost in the last whole year,got it back in mere two weeks:sad: I was heartbroken when i saw the scale. Anyways, i wont weigh in till my resets over now.:grumble:
But im really happy eating at my TDEE,
Eating to my full what else would i want. 0 -
I have started my 3rd week of reset on monday and I have already up 6 lbs, can you believe it? The amount of weight i lost in the last whole year,got it back in mere two weeks:sad: I was heartbroken when i saw the scale. Anyways, i wont weigh in till my resets over now.:grumble:
But im really happy eating at my TDEE, Eating to my full what else would i want.
Probably mainly glucose stores with water - that is LBM - that is increased metabolism.
congrats, some repair already.
I'd encourage you to keep weighing, as that is the only way to tell if you got the TDEE correct or not.
Only use valid weigh-in days, morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels not sore from last workout.
Cuts the fluctuations out as best as possible.
But you gotta be able to tell if gain is slow and steady, or big jump as that 6 lbs probably was. And your BMR literally will change through the month, so need a tad longer to tell.0 -
I have started my 3rd week of reset on monday and I have already up 6 lbs, can you believe it? The amount of weight i lost in the last whole year,got it back in mere two weeks:sad: I was heartbroken when i saw the scale. Anyways, i wont weigh in till my resets over now.:grumble:
But im really happy eating at my TDEE, Eating to my full what else would i want.
Probably mainly glucose stores with water - that is LBM - that is increased metabolism.
congrats, some repair already.
I'd encourage you to keep weighing, as that is the only way to tell if you got the TDEE correct or not.
Only use valid weigh-in days, morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels not sore from last workout.
Cuts the fluctuations out as best as possible.
But you gotta be able to tell if gain is slow and steady, or big jump as that 6 lbs probably was. And your BMR literally will change through the month, so need a tad longer to tell.
Oh heybales, what are we gonna do without you? :bigsmile: Thanks for the clarification that actually makes sense,ill be weighing more often 0 -
Okay so now i am in the middle of 4th week into reset. today was my weigh day. And im up 2.2 lbs. Just when i thought i should have stablized
Anyways I have a few questions to ask.
1) What do you guys think of this calculator?
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
I feel comfortable using this since i can give my No. of hours activity detail in it easily.
Right now its 8 hour Sleep and 14 hours of very light activity.
But comparing it to scooby calculator, it always gives 100-200 more TDEE. :huh:
2) I ate lots of pizza and fries over the weekend. Partying and yesterday and today im thirsty like crazy. Its like my tongue has gotten so dry it cant get enough. Is it because of the junk? since its too high in sodium? :noway:
And is that the cause of this weight gain?
3) I fast for 12-15 hours on Thursdays. In those hours i dont eat/drink anything. I have decided that my weigh in day should be Friday therefore. Do you think its okay? Since my body will get a bit less of calories the day before.
Thanks All 0 -
Okay so now i am in the middle of 4th week into reset. today was my weigh day. And im up 2.2 lbs. Just when i thought i should have stablized
Anyways I have a few questions to ask.
1) What do you guys think of this calculator?
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
I feel comfortable using this since i can give my No. of hours activity detail in it easily.
Right now its 8 hour Sleep and 14 hours of very light activity.
But comparing it to scooby calculator, it always gives 100-200 more TDEE. :huh:
2) I ate lots of pizza and fries over the weekend. Partying and yesterday and today im thirsty like crazy. Its like my tongue has gotten so dry it cant get enough. Is it because of the junk? since its too high in sodium? :noway:
And is that the cause of this weight gain?
3) I fast for 12-15 hours on Thursdays. In those hours i dont eat/drink anything. I have decided that my weigh in day should be Friday therefore. Do you think its okay? Since my body will get a bit less of calories the day before.
Thanks All
1 - Just use an easier version of that calculator in the spreadsheet, Future You tab (which is hidden in recent versions).
Because if you enter all your time there, what day of the week is that for? Are all the days the same? And you literally roll out of bed and sit or stand rest of the day?
My spreadsheet version of that calc lets you lay out the whole weeks worth of expected activity a tad easier I think.
Which BMR did you use, Mifflin based on healthy weight study participants, or Katch based on LBM?
But really, the Simple Setup activity calc does the same thing, except it's weight based, not BMR based as that is. Assumes sedentary work, you build on top of that. But you do no exercise? Or you'll be starting lifting?
I realized after some time of exactly copying their method, if you do a good job maintaining your LBM, then your BMR doesn't lower.
But that calc would keep over-estimating calories burned as you weigh less and burn less moving even though BMR stays the same.
So eventually you'd be eating very little if any deficit.
The study it's based on was for healthy weight people from World Health Organization. And if you have a small BMR but carrying a lot of weight in fat, you actually burn more than that would calculate.
2 - Sodium - easily the cause. It'll drop. I wouldn't even bother weighing after something like that, it's so invalid. Unless curious about how great fluctuations can be, not useful info.
3 - Invalid weigh in day. You'll be carb depleted to some degree, probably varying degrees depending on how active the day was. And since carbs store with water, and will be false loss. And how active that fasted day is would spell out how much you could fluctuate.
Only valid weigh-in day to cut out fluctuations and not drive yourself crazy, is morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels and not sore from last workout.
If you are sure the Thu fasted will always be same level of activity (500 extra burned in carbs is 1 lb of water weight), then you can use it, but great potential for false gains and losses. Which could be very thrilling and then discouraging week after week.0 -
@Heybales :
I was having a look at the spreadsheet you mentioned, and its awesome
I have a couple of questions though.
In the Simple Setup tab, Activity Calulator row.
I am sedentary these days, so i dint put any value in any of the how many minutes/hours questions. I am assuming that sheet is already calculating on the basis of
"Sedentary is base activity that is built on, which already includes weekly - 40 hr work sitting, 56 hr sleeping, 65 hr sitting/standing, 7 hr slow walking"
Am i right?:embarassed:
Also it gave my TDEE to be 2002 :noway: I mean really? I am eating 2300~ calories these days :sad:
Also I wanted to know if I can use the TDEE calculated as is and add any activity that i do on daily basis and eat those cals back since m reseting :huh:
About lifting, m planning on starting this from the 1st.
About exercise, i was pretty active before i started resetting.
I planned on 8 weeks reset. 4 of which i wanted to be super lazy and do nothing. Since my 4th week of reset is about to end. Ill add 1-1.5 hours of exercise in it 5 days a week. 3 Days lifting 2 days Cardio.
.0 -
@Heybales :
I was having a look at the spreadsheet you mentioned, and its awesome
I have a couple of questions though.
In the Simple Setup tab, Activity Calulator row.
I am sedentary these days, so i dint put any value in any of the how many minutes/hours questions. I am assuming that sheet is already calculating on the basis of
"Sedentary is base activity that is built on, which already includes weekly - 40 hr work sitting, 56 hr sleeping, 65 hr sitting/standing, 7 hr slow walking"
Am i right?:embarassed:
Also it gave my TDEE to be 2002 :noway: I mean really? I am eating 2300~ calories these days :sad:
Also I wanted to know if I can use the TDEE calculated as is and add any activity that i do on daily basis and eat those cals back since m reseting :huh:
About lifting, m planning on starting this from the 1st.
About exercise, i was pretty active before i started resetting.
I planned on 8 weeks reset. 4 of which i wanted to be super lazy and do nothing. Since my 4th week of reset is about to end. Ill add 1-1.5 hours of exercise in it 5 days a week. 3 Days lifting 2 days Cardio.
.
You got the sedentary foundation correct. Those hrs in there are actually based on the calculator on the exrx site, except a weeks view averaged back out to daily level.
So only a few of those other TDEE calc's with simple 5 levels even have an option to use Katch BMR, based on bodyfat%.
So that is usually one reason you start out lower.
The other thing this calc does if female and using Katch BMR based on LBM, studies have shown women's TDEE is 5-10% lower than a man's with equal LBM, because of the smaller major metabolic burning organs. So that math is done.
So those are 2 reasons why even at sedentary the TDEE estimate is less and more accurate than BMR based on age, weight, height, which the Mifflin BMR while better when overweight, is still based on study participants at health weight and fat to non-fat mass ratio.
And doing MFP style with exercise eat back is valid technique.
But I'd suggest if you have any semi-decent steady routine, use the TDEE deficit method, as you can learn to eat and plan better to hit goals.
The MFP Tweak tab is other method.
Just go there and fill in the Katch BMR shown and BMR multiplier shown, your goals are spelled out to use.
Then at the bottom enter in your calories burned and time of the workout, and column shows what to log and totally eat back.0 -
Thanks Heybales, youre really helpful.I'll bug you again if i got stuck 0
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I am into Week 5 of Reset now, I kinda think im maintaining now. Not sure though.
But eating till my TDEE is still like stuffing myself
Sometimes m more hungry and i eat more than my TDEE.
Also I started NROLFW Stage 1 yesterday. It was tough and i found myself craving for eggs at night o_O
Today m gonna be doing cardio. My plan is to log my exercise and eat back those calories.
Also i'm really trying to limit my sodium till 1500 mg, but i always cross 2000 mark, less than 2500 though.
Also m over 30-40 g in carbs usually, i hit other macros well.
Can not wait to start reset.
Start Weight at reset: 85 Kgs
CW: 88.2 kgs0 -
Hey All,
Ive completed my week 5 now, 5 more weeks to go !!!
I'm 80% sure that I am maintaining now @2239 cals per day.
Still not hitting carbs very well. And since there too many public holidays this week, no gym either.0 -
I am into week 7 of my reset and i have incorporated exercise. 2x cardio and 2x lift
For cardio i had decided to JM 30 Days Shred and for lifting i am doing NROLFW workouts.
Well, I dunno if it was a good decision or not.
I wasnt able to do JM 30 DS on monday but i did brisk walk, cycling etc.
On tuesday i did Workout A of Stage 1 of NROLFW, I was sore but wasnt that much
On wednesday I did JM 30 DS Stage 1, its basically circuit training with cardio, strength and abs.
I was drinking water like i will never have another sip in my life during these two days.
Well m damn sore today, I am having a rest and fast day today, i will do NROLFW workout tomorrow and saturday and sunday will be rest days.
My weigh day was supposed to be today well i weighed in and i was 4 lbs up. So i am thinking of moving my weigh in day to monday so that most fluctuations are ignored.0 -
Good call, you are retaining so bad after a workout.
Mon morning sounds much better if Sun is normal rest day, or at least not intense and you eat after a walk or such. Just gotta watch out for those Sun lunches of high sodium.0 -
Following your progress! Such great info here 0
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So i am in to week 9 of my reset. I started 2x cardio and 2x lifting exercise from week 7. I was maintaining till week 8 at 88 kgs and at the start of week 9 (weigh in day monday) I am up 2 kgs.
Plus im really very thirsty now,i have upped my water intake from 8 cups per day to around 10-12. Similarly, i feel really really hungry on workout days.
My TDEE @ sedentary is around 2200 ish. So on the days of exercise I eat 2200+exercise cals.
But according to heybales sheet, My sedentary TDEE is around 2007. I had been eating around 200 cals more for past 8 weeks. Is that why I have gained weight but i was maintaining previously? or because of the weigh training?
I dont get it...
Please enlighten me.
Thanks0 -
Week 8 88kg, week 9 increased 2kg. 7 days.
Always do the math.
1 kg if fat is 7716 calories.
7716 x 2 kg / 7 days = 2205 avg daily surplus calories.
For 7 days, did you eat 2205 calories OVER your TDEE, real or estimated, each and every day on average?
I think not.
I don't recall if advice given or taken - but that change was based on a valid weigh-in day?
Meaning morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
So couple weeks of lifting your body is trying to make some improvements, and it would like more food to do more, so true on hunger. Wait until you take a cut, it should pass, not for bad reason of screwed up hormones, but for alright reason body is just making do with what it is getting.
And it's storing more glucose for the effort (though that is tad much for that), and retaining water for good repair. So despite weight increase, you actually may see inches drop, if you happened to measure where they dropped.
So suggestion to make spreadsheet most accurate for you, especially going forward with new exercise being done now.
So in newest spreadsheet (dated 10/30/13), in the Progress tab, pick the 4 weeks just prior to starting to workout where weight stayed the same, and log your daily eating level on far right. Need accurate, so hopefully you had no skipped days or meals. If 1 days was missed, throw in rough estimate based on other days, if 1 or 2 meals was missed, not bad, but add in rough estimate. 0 is totally invalid data and will throw off averages badly.
Chart right below that needs your loss in lbs over that time period (0), and leave the 4 weeks, and what your avg eating daily was from above.
There is then shown what you should change in the Activity Calc to take in to account better TDEE estimate. As weight drops that will likely still apply, but can be adjusted constantly.
That will make the TDEE figure match what you have found in real life.
Now, one caveat to this, as you may have discovered and most have during their plateaus.
You think it was sedentary TDEE you were eating at because you neither gained nor lost weight, right.
But perhaps you used to eat much lower than currently, and for a good long time period also neither gained nor lost - but was that your potential TDEE at lower eating level?
Is this therefore your real potential TDEE at this higher eating level, how do you know?
The spreadsheet and other TDEE tables are estimates (I think spreadsheet much better potential for accuracy) to at least get you close to real potential. But still estimates.
Did you ever do a test of eating 250 more daily for 2 weeks? Which if really at TDEE prior to the 250 more, would merely add 1 lb over those 2 weeks.
Never fear, after current workouts are going for several weeks you can do same test right before taking a deficit.0 -
Week 8 88kg, week 9 increased 2kg. 7 days.
Always do the math.
1 kg if fat is 7716 calories.
7716 x 2 kg / 7 days = 2205 avg daily surplus calories.
For 7 days, did you eat 2205 calories OVER your TDEE, real or estimated, each and every day on average?
I think not.
Yep you're right thats what I dint do :SI don't recall if advice given or taken - but that change was based on a valid weigh-in day?
Meaning morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
Yep, it was on monday, i had saturday and sunday as rest days and since I was at home on weekend, so cooked for myself and ate healthy.So couple weeks of lifting your body is trying to make some improvements, and it would like more food to do more, so true on hunger. Wait until you take a cut, it should pass, not for bad reason of screwed up hormones, but for alright reason body is just making do with what it is getting.
And it's storing more glucose for the effort (though that is tad much for that), and retaining water for good repair. So despite weight increase, you actually may see inches drop, if you happened to measure where they dropped.
Nope,not lost anything.. inches are the same and gained weight.So suggestion to make spreadsheet most accurate for you, especially going forward with new exercise being done now.
So in newest spreadsheet (dated 10/30/13), in the Progress tab, pick the 4 weeks just prior to starting to workout where weight stayed the same, and log your daily eating level on far right. Need accurate, so hopefully you had no skipped days or meals. If 1 days was missed, throw in rough estimate based on other days, if 1 or 2 meals was missed, not bad, but add in rough estimate. 0 is totally invalid data and will throw off averages badly.
Chart right below that needs your loss in lbs over that time period (0), and leave the 4 weeks, and what your avg eating daily was from above.
There is then shown what you should change in the Activity Calc to take in to account better TDEE estimate. As weight drops that will likely still apply, but can be adjusted constantly.
That will make the TDEE figure match what you have found in real life.
I am unable to find the latest sheet, can you please point me to link?Now, one caveat to this, as you may have discovered and most have during their plateaus.
You think it was sedentary TDEE you were eating at because you neither gained nor lost weight, right.
But perhaps you used to eat much lower than currently, and for a good long time period also neither gained nor lost - but was that your potential TDEE at lower eating level?
Is this therefore your real potential TDEE at this higher eating level, how do you know?
The spreadsheet and other TDEE tables are estimates (I think spreadsheet much better potential for accuracy) to at least get you close to real potential. But still estimates.
Well, when I upped my calorie intake, i weighed 85 kgs. So in the first 2 weeks gained till i was 89 kgs and the next week I dropped a kg and was 88 kgs. Since then I was maintaining. And at the start of this week it shot to 90 kgs.Did you ever do a test of eating 250 more daily for 2 weeks? Which if really at TDEE prior to the 250 more, would merely add 1 lb over those 2 weeks.
Never fear, after current workouts are going for several weeks you can do same test right before taking a deficit.
Im sorry, but I dont understand
Are you saying that I should up my intake more to my current TDEE(i think) + 250 cals?
Well, I am here for long, healthy, slow weight loss. So I am in. I can up my calories to 250 from now.0 -
I think I could probably use a reset. My weight goes up and down, up and down all the time. I was doing TDEE -15% for a while, and then started eating when I felt like it and gained weight to where my ticker started over completely
(plus 1 lb -_-) Only good thing I see in all my stats beside that is that my LBM has increased from 110 lbs to 119 lbs from nearly a year ago.
I pre-logged a bit today and I think I got in the bad habit of not eating again (I even ditched breakfast for a while).. so much for thinking I had finally got the hang of things. I also don't drink nearly enough water.. maybe a liter at best.
Anyway I am getting 2,054 calories for TDEE on the google doc spreadsheet, 1905 with the calculator linked in the EM2WL e-book and 1940 with MFP.. so I'm going for an average between them all at 1966 (seems safe?).
I just want to be sure I'm doing this correctly because it sounds like a lot (and I've been watching myself gain weight which has me RUNNING FROM food again).. I'm trying to stick to the e-book guidelines, so I'll be doing this for at least 8 weeks...
I also intend to throw in some weight work after I get some health issue looked at (I've got a weird bad pain in my abdomen when I bend forward), but for now I thought I could at least work on the reset.
Any advice, tips etc is greatly appreciated!0 -
I think I could probably use a reset. My weight goes up and down, up and down all the time. I was doing TDEE -15% for a while, and then started eating when I felt like it and gained weight to where my ticker started over completely (plus 1 lb -_-) Only good thing I see in all my stats beside that is that my LBM has increased from 110 lbs to 119 lbs from nearly a year ago.
I pre-logged a bit today and I think I got in the bad habit of not eating again (I even ditched breakfast for a while).. so much for thinking I had finally got the hang of things. I also don't drink nearly enough water.. maybe a liter at best.
Anyway I am getting 2,054 calories for TDEE on the google doc spreadsheet, 1905 with the calculator linked in the EM2WL e-book and 1940 with MFP.. so I'm going for an average between them all at 1966 (seems safe?).
I just want to be sure I'm doing this correctly because it sounds like a lot (and I've been watching myself gain weight which has me RUNNING FROM food again).. I'm trying to stick to the e-book guidelines, so I'll be doing this for at least 8 weeks...
I also intend to throw in some weight work after I get some health issue looked at (I've got a weird bad pain in my abdomen when I bend forward), but for now I thought I could at least work on the reset.
Any advice, tips etc is greatly appreciated!
Now it is interesting that a TDEE from 2 sources that includes exercise would be so close to MFP maintenance which does not include exercise.
Unless you selected Sedentary in the TDEE table and little exercise included in the spreadsheet, or a big difference between Mifflin BMR MFP uses and Katch the spreadsheet uses with BF%.
The up and down nature would tend to suggest you were eating either near TDEE. The question of course is suppressed or potential TDEE.
Whatever value you stick with, the Progress tab of the spreadsheet has a section on the far right for taking a months worth of accurate eating level logging, that included no big change of exercise that could mess with water retention, and figuring out a more accurate TDEE from it.
But it really only works if losing slightly, gaining slightly, and for sure coming in from the high side.0 -
I chose sedentary on everything and told MFP I was doing no exercise. My activity level has also really recently dropped (especially with the pain), so that might also explain things? I can link my sheet and you can tell me if you see anything off maybe?
The day I weighed myself to get back to MFP and re-figure TDEE was a day I ate breakfast first (usually I weigh myself first thing in the morning). I remembered to weigh myself this morning before eating and the difference is -2.2lbs (still don't think my breakfast would account for that much difference though).
So I'm going to plug in the new weight etc from the scale and see what numbers it gives.
For body fat and muscle % I am using my body fat scale.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjnPyE0dem06dHFqNHJyLWJ1eVlhbzFQUGx1TVpRRXc&usp=sharing0
