Metabolism Reset - Eating at TDEE Support Thread
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I have officially set my calories to TDEE....woo-hoo...here we go!
Me too
First day of the reset 0 -
ok day 5 of reset here..I broke my promise and weighed myself today, curiosity was getting the best of me, and I was totally prepared to see a big gain. HAPPY to announce I haven't gained anything since my last gain (3.5 pounds)..so it is good my weight is staying the same right??0
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So, I have a bodybugg, I need to basically eat my TDEE from the previous day maybe? Is that a good idea? It varies from 2000 to 2500. For 8 wks? Some people say they're going for 4 wks or 6. How do u know when it's safe to cut. Hope August 1st gets here quick ! Is it possible to not gain a bunch of weight doing this?
Someone else started out doing that, eating from the previous days burn, but it got too tedious for him to keep changing his total and figuring out what to eat to get to different numbers, so he averaged his burn over 1-2 weeks and was eating that amount consistently. That way, you kind of know what foods will get you to your total and not so much thinking everyday.
But it is a viable option if you want to try it.
I have a bodybugg (just not wearing it right now) and my burns vary from day to day, but whenever I do an average for a week, month or several months, I always come up with the same daily burn pretty much, so I eat that amount every day.
I agree with this. Take an average over a week or so and eat that number every day as your TDEE.0 -
I have been eating at 1700 calories for probably 1.5 weeks now (up from 1500 for 5 weeks) I am going to up to 2000 now and see how it goes. TDEE for me ranges from 2300-3000 depending on if I work (on feet walking for 8+hours) or just do 30 minutes of exercise on my day off, but lounge around most of the day. I have basically been maintaining at 1700 (after initial 5 pound gain), so I am hoping that making the extra jump will still help me maintain before I cut again.
Plan on doing 2000 for 2 weeks or so, then make the final jump to 2400 (good balance, I think) for 4 weeks. In 2 weeks, I leave for the Virgin Islands, so I figure this would be a good week to jump to full TDEE and then continue on for 3 weeks after that!0 -
Day 6 of reset - I smiled at myself in the mirror this morning. It's been a long time since I've felt good enough about my image to smile at it. I still have a long way to go, but I feel really happy right now. I admit that I struggle to get all the way up to 2500 some days. I get in the 2300ish range, but I have had a day where I was over 2500. I'm hoping it all evens out, but I will work on getting all the way to 2500 more consistently. It doesn't do me any good to up my calories by 200 if I'm not actually eating the extra calories!0
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Anybody here consider backing off on their exercise routine?? Last fall I ran my first half-marathon. Up to that point I had been running 3x week, plus doing a bootcamp 2-3x week. After my big race, I took a complete exercise break for two weeks. Quite frankly I was burned out from "having" to work out 5-6 days a week. I actually lost more in those two weeks off than I had at any other time in my weightloss journey. I've read a bit about advantages to diet breaks, and also periodic exercise breaks.
Thoughts?
I am working on cutting back and learning to take full rest days. So far I cut my running down from 6 days a week to 3-4. I stopped doing Jillian Michaels DVDs and now strength train with hand weights 3 days a week and don't run on those days. I do end up going for walks on those days to get out of the house since I work at home and two of my daughters love to talk a walk with me. Its just a light walk.
The problem is I am enjoying eating so much, that right now I don't want to have to lower my goal!:laugh: Plus I know once it starts getting darker and colder I will most likely stop running. My youngest is almost 3 and she insists on coming with so if its dark and cold I wouldn't want to take her.0 -
I have officially set my calories to TDEE....woo-hoo...here we go!
Oh and I got on the scale today - wanted to start this reset with all the correct numbers and I was 2 pounds....and immediately thought oh no I don't want to do a reset.....
Don't worry I feed the litte voice in my head and she's happy now plotting ways to torture the scale.
Has anyone else had problems with the little voice? Or did you physically hide the scale?
I had my husband hide the scale - i am way to obsessed with it0 -
Oh and I will add, that once I see myself stabilized at the 2250 cal mark, I will be bumping up to 2350 cals to try and up my TDEE set point...hah. I am experimenting guys, don't go following me on this one...but hey info is info, so I will be putting it all out there...lol.
I was thinking about this the other day! It sort of makes sense.... if I can jump in after years of yo-yo dieting at my 15% cut and my body treat it as my TDEE, then I upped it to my actual TDEE to do a actual reset and my body is maintaining at that, it made me wonder if it would be possible to bump a tad higher and see if you could make your TDEE be a little higher to some extent.
Very interesting, keep us updated!0 -
Hi guys,
I'm having second thought about eating at TDEE. I'm going back and forth between doing it for just a week, going back to TDEE -15%, or just eating a flat 1750 cals daily. My weight started creeping up at least a week before I started a heavy lifting program (Stronglifts 5x5), and I weighed myself on Tuesday morning because a lot of my small clothes are getting tight (and these were clothes I bought fairly recently). I measure myself once a month, and from April 28th - May 29th I went up 1" in my belly, 2" in my hips, and almost 2" in my breasts.
I weighed again this morning, because I decided to weigh in daily so that I could understand that daily weight fluctuations are normal.
I think I'm too worried that this won't work--which might be ok if I were to maintain--but I'm scared I'll gain a lot and that I won't be able to fit into ANY of my clothes, and of how long it will take me to get that weight back off. Plus I'm just feeling super bloated, stuffed, and uncomfortable. I pre-logged my after-dnner snack, but I don't want to eat it.
I might stick it out for the rest of this week, but right now I'm very nervous and scared. I've often been the odd one out in these situations--i.e., what seems to work for practically everyone else backfires on me.
I totally understand your worries about being that 'odd person' it doesn't work for. My personal history seems to have written the book on "that works for everyone BUT me". However, as I've pondered this group's philosophy and strategies, I've come to understand something....and it's based on something my husband used to say: "Honey, if a bunch of us got stranded on a desert island with no food, you'd be the last one standing....your body just makes the most of every bit of food it gets."
He said that because he watched me exercise for hours a day for years and eat so little (now I know I was netting around 500 cals or less many days) and I still gained weight (or lost nothing). My body had to be so efficient on so little food and I STILL kept going, and going, and going. I should have dropped like a fly. I wound up on medications so I could sleep (strong ones) and medication for depression, and countless other meds and vitamins for energy, fat loss, etc. My Dr. couldn't find anything wrong with me to explain my symptoms and she could not for the life of her figure out why I couldn't lose weight. So she sent me to a nutritionist/personal trainer/life coach. She got stumped too. And now I know why. Because NOBODY ever asked me what my NET calories were in a day!! All of them believed that the low cal, high exercise diet should work. But my body went into survival mode and it was VERY good at survival mode. Other people's bodies just might not be as efficient as yours and mine at survival mode...thus, they find success in things we couldn't after a while even though they were doing similar things.
I'm a survivor...I know that now-I've proven it...but it's time to get off the island. I want my life back, my body wants food and until I feed it, it's going to remain in survival mode and keep rationing/storing every bit of food it gets for where/when it needs it most. Once I feed it, it will know it's 'off the island' and food is abundant and it will stop storing for emergencies. This process will work because it just makes logical sense.
This is me, too! My husband always talks about how dedicated I am
We have been together since we were teenagers so he has seen all my struggles and has seen me never give up, always trying to lose fat. He always tells me how he would have gave up a long time ago. Especially since he has no interest in eating healthy or exercising:laugh:
I do every so often let it creep in that this will be another try at something I put my all into with no desired results....but then I figure so what if it doesn't. I was stuck at this weight eating 1,000 less per day. So even if I do maintain, at least there has been many other positive things going on that were not happening a month ago!0 -
Today is Day 2 for me! I am feeling very optimistic, especially after starting to read NROLFW! That book totally trumps eveything I've always believed about fitness! I wish I would have done this a long time ago and now I realize this is exactly what I needed. I am seriously pumped!0
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So how is everyone doing today?
I have noticed this week (just finished week three and am a couple days into week four), that I am waking up very hungry. Not that I never woke up hungry before, but I haven't woken up hungry since I started my reset because I had been so full all the time. I think the full feeling is finally going away.
Also, I wore my jeans last night and other than being just a tiny snug in the legs, they still fit. If I am going to gain true fat, it would be in my bust/belly/upper hips, so I was happy nothing was hanging over the top Hoping the legs is just water from lifting heavy.
So all is well with me right now.
I have gone over my TDEE by about 300-400 the last two days due to extra celebrations I didn't plan well for, but I am not sweating it. Just seeing it as extra fuel to build some muscles. Plus, I have been doing a lot of extra yard work that I don't usually do, so there has to be a little extra burn there.
I should be wearing my bodybugg, but I just hate, hate, hate wearing it in the warm weather, not only does it show with short sleeves, but who wants a tan line on their arm??? I wish they would come up with one that was a little more discreet.
So what about everyone else, how's it going?
I just had the same experience. Ate my TDEE yesterday, and still felt a tiny bit hungry at bedtime, but just went to bed. Well, this morning my stomach was totally growling! I did have a good lift day on Wed., and I remember someone else saying they are always more hungry the day after lifting, so I'm guessing that's what it was for me. Also, I'm pleasantly surprised that upping 300 calories/day for the last week has not made me any more bloated, compared to when I first jumped up in calories. It's been a week eating at TDEE for me. I might weigh myself tomorrow, or I might just wait another week... I don't want any surprises before I run a 10k race tomorrow. No need to mess with my head before that!0 -
Day 6 of reset - I smiled at myself in the mirror this morning. It's been a long time since I've felt good enough about my image to smile at it. I still have a long way to go, but I feel really happy right now. I admit that I struggle to get all the way up to 2500 some days. I get in the 2300ish range, but I have had a day where I was over 2500. I'm hoping it all evens out, but I will work on getting all the way to 2500 more consistently. It doesn't do me any good to up my calories by 200 if I'm not actually eating the extra calories!
GOOD FOR YOU! What a great observation! Thanks for the positive vibes this morning. Yes, it's a daily struggle, isn't it? I'm also happy that this experiment hasn't left me icky-bloated like when I first upped calories. Clothes are still fitting good.0 -
Since I've done metabolism reset past 4 weeks without realizing it (my calories didn't say it on my diary due to the fact I didn't weigh everything. and when I did they were more than measuring cups..)
ANYUWAY!!! Yes I gained 8-9 lbs!! It makes me SO MAD MAD MAD MAD MAD! I was 330 lbs, and was 152. now I'm 160.8.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANGRY!
But but but I'm feeling good.. I just really need to keep going.. 4 more weeks. UGH.. please tell me I wno't gain other 8 lbs.. will I? SincE I'll be eating at TDEE..
Sigh... </VENT>0 -
Since I've done metabolism reset past 4 weeks without realizing it (my calories didn't say it on my diary due to the fact I didn't weigh everything. and when I did they were more than measuring cups..)
ANYUWAY!!! Yes I gained 8-9 lbs!! It makes me SO MAD MAD MAD MAD MAD! I was 330 lbs, and was 152. now I'm 160.8.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ANGRY!
But but but I'm feeling good.. I just really need to keep going.. 4 more weeks. UGH.. please tell me I wno't gain other 8 lbs.. will I? SincE I'll be eating at TDEE..
Sigh... </VENT>
Wow - you've come a long way since starting your journey. This will be a slight bump for you. Yes, you might put on a few more pounds in the next four weeks. But then the weight will move when you go to your cut. Trust the process. It will be worth it to get to a maintenance level that you can live with once you've reached your goal. Hang in there!0 -
Day 5 of my TDEE metabolism reset. Weight seems fairly stable at 157, despite going over in sodium (again!) yesterday. I definitely love feeling full and energetic after breakfast.
Does anyone out there know how consistent is consistent when doing a reset? I know consistency is key - no doubt about that. But if I'm within 100 calories of my TDEE up or down each day, is that okay? And every now and again (yesterday for example) I'm 300 over. Am I killing my reset if I fluctuate that much?
Hope you guys are doing great! I can't believe how big this thread and the EM2LW group has grown. Way to go, eating more to loose weight!0 -
Day 5 of my TDEE metabolism reset. Weight seems fairly stable at 157, despite going over in sodium (again!) yesterday. I definitely love feeling full and energetic after breakfast.
Does anyone out there know how consistent is consistent when doing a reset? I know consistency is key - no doubt about that. But if I'm within 100 calories of my TDEE up or down each day, is that okay? And every now and again (yesterday for example) I'm 300 over. Am I killing my reset if I fluctuate that much?
Hope you guys are doing great! I can't believe how big this thread and the EM2LW group has grown. Way to go, eating more to loose weight!
Waiting to here the answer on that. When I'm eating my Cut I don't worry as much about fluctuating, but since I'm doing this reset thing I'm also curious. I don't want to screw up the reset and have to do it again. :grumble: Anyone have the answer?0 -
Anyone else having trouble looking at other's peoples diaries now? I try not hard to judge what other people are eating/doing, but when I see my non EM2LW friends netting 800 calories or even less I want to say something. It's not in my nature to lecture people, we all have the power of free choice. I'm just enjoying the EM2LW lifestyle so much I want to share! LOL0
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Just checking in. I will have to come back later to read everything! But ... I went to a new doctor yesterday. The first thing they wanted was for me to step on a scale. It was late in the afternoon, so the only food left was my dinner. Everything else was in my belly. I was able to take my shoes off, but that was it. When I started EMTWL, I was 213 pounds. When I stepped on the scale yesterday at the doctor's office ... it said 233 ... I almost cried AND laughed right there. My pants are a teeny bit tighter, but not 20 pounds tighter! I don't understand, but I'm accepting that this process is going to work. I have never seen anyone say they've "gained 20 pounds" from this ... so I am hoping everything is working the way it should. God help me, haha, I swore to myself I'd never get above 215 when I *finally* fell to 213! Ugh.0
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Day 5 of my TDEE metabolism reset. Weight seems fairly stable at 157, despite going over in sodium (again!) yesterday. I definitely love feeling full and energetic after breakfast.
Does anyone out there know how consistent is consistent when doing a reset? I know consistency is key - no doubt about that. But if I'm within 100 calories of my TDEE up or down each day, is that okay? And every now and again (yesterday for example) I'm 300 over. Am I killing my reset if I fluctuate that much?
Hope you guys are doing great! I can't believe how big this thread and the EM2LW group has grown. Way to go, eating more to loose weight!
Waiting to here the answer on that. When I'm eating my Cut I don't worry as much about fluctuating, but since I'm doing this reset thing I'm also curious. I don't want to screw up the reset and have to do it again. :grumble: Anyone have the answer?
Consistency is key. However, from what I've been able to ascertain from things Kiki has said, she would eat at OR above her TDEE amount while resetting. Eating 100 cals too low once in a while is not going to destroy all your hard work, but if you do it too often or too low regularly, it may take your body a little longer to fully reset at the right number. The biggest thing with a reset is getting your metabolism line RAISED...that's why going over (although you may gain a few more pounds that way) isn't as bad as being under.0 -
Just checking in. I will have to come back later to read everything! But ... I went to a new doctor yesterday. The first thing they wanted was for me to step on a scale. It was late in the afternoon, so the only food left was my dinner. Everything else was in my belly. I was able to take my shoes off, but that was it. When I started EMTWL, I was 213 pounds. When I stepped on the scale yesterday at the doctor's office ... it said 233 ... I almost cried AND laughed right there. My pants are a teeny bit tighter, but not 20 pounds tighter! I don't understand, but I'm accepting that this process is going to work. I have never seen anyone say they've "gained 20 pounds" from this ... so I am hoping everything is working the way it should. God help me, haha, I swore to myself I'd never get above 215 when I *finally* fell to 213! Ugh.
Actually, there was a post a little while ago about a woman who had gained 25 lbs before starting to lose again. (and she lost regularly after that) And it sounds like you although you've gained, your inches aren't keeping up at the same ratio, so things are probably shifting around inside that body of yours. Did you take any before photos that you can compare to now? Often that will show those awesome changes more than a tape measure or scale ever will. 0 -
Anyone else having trouble looking at other's peoples diaries now? I try not hard to judge what other people are eating/doing, but when I see my non EM2LW friends netting 800 calories or even less I want to say something. It's not in my nature to lecture people, we all have the power of free choice. I'm just enjoying the EM2LW lifestyle so much I want to share! LOL
Haha, I was having this issue yesterday, I looked at some diaries and noticed the numbers were all over the place, too low, too high etc and wanted to say something but I didn't. My husband convinced me I should keep my mouth shut lol.0 -
Anyone else having trouble looking at other's peoples diaries now? I try not hard to judge what other people are eating/doing, but when I see my non EM2LW friends netting 800 calories or even less I want to say something. It's not in my nature to lecture people, we all have the power of free choice. I'm just enjoying the EM2LW lifestyle so much I want to share! LOL
Funny you should say that! I just went through and deleted a bunch of friends who eat too few calories because it started annoying me.0 -
Just checking in. I will have to come back later to read everything! But ... I went to a new doctor yesterday. The first thing they wanted was for me to step on a scale. It was late in the afternoon, so the only food left was my dinner. Everything else was in my belly. I was able to take my shoes off, but that was it. When I started EMTWL, I was 213 pounds. When I stepped on the scale yesterday at the doctor's office ... it said 233 ... I almost cried AND laughed right there. My pants are a teeny bit tighter, but not 20 pounds tighter! I don't understand, but I'm accepting that this process is going to work. I have never seen anyone say they've "gained 20 pounds" from this ... so I am hoping everything is working the way it should. God help me, haha, I swore to myself I'd never get above 215 when I *finally* fell to 213! Ugh.
I have had many nurses from different offices say how the scales at doctor offices are never calibrated and they don't really give much thought with weight since it fluctuates so much. So depending on the scale it can be way off.
Yes, every time I go to the doctor its always with a full belly! :flowerforyou:0 -
I'm on the 2nd week of trying to eat close to TDEE.... i have been eating 2500-2700...( I have done everything from 1200-2000 in the past... most of the time, around 1600-1700...which apparantly, is below my BMR... :noway: ) .it seems like an insane amount and i'm NOT liking it
...... I have cut back on my cardio the past few weeks...and this is the most frustrating thing I've ever done... I feel like a useless lump. :sick: :huh: :ohwell: I would rather work myself silly, do intermittent fasting etc, but alas... none of that worked......so after forever of trying to figure this out, I think my metabolism is the rotten culprit. :explode:
When someone still have a LOT to lose...as in...70-90 more ( never been a normal weight, so I need to see where I really should be... likely closer to the 90...) is it REALLY necesarry to eat THAT high? According to my bodybugg...on a sedentary day....( home sick, or weekend spent indoors..) I burn about 2350 cals... on an intense exercise day with a full day of my desk job, I can burn up to 3750 ( 800 cals Zumba, 300 cals Kettlebell, 100 cals or so Weighted Hula Hoop) .... my Bodybugg stats on average over a week state between 2750 and 2950 over the course of the week. ..... some of the days, this means eating the TDEE is actually eating MORE then I burn on a given day?!
The first few days I did not see any gain, was just steady, but now, unless it's from eating too much salty foods/not enough water ( I suppose it could be???) I have seen a few pounds on the scale gained. TRULLY hoping it is water, because I have fought tooth and nail to get rid of every stinkin' pound ...:(.... I'm not even quite to my supposed TDEE...but am terrified of even THIS level...if I have to do another few weeks of this... the concept of more pounds on the scale is making me insane!!!!
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Just checking in. I will have to come back later to read everything! But ... I went to a new doctor yesterday. The first thing they wanted was for me to step on a scale. It was late in the afternoon, so the only food left was my dinner. Everything else was in my belly. I was able to take my shoes off, but that was it. When I started EMTWL, I was 213 pounds. When I stepped on the scale yesterday at the doctor's office ... it said 233 ... I almost cried AND laughed right there. My pants are a teeny bit tighter, but not 20 pounds tighter! I don't understand, but I'm accepting that this process is going to work. I have never seen anyone say they've "gained 20 pounds" from this ... so I am hoping everything is working the way it should. God help me, haha, I swore to myself I'd never get above 215 when I *finally* fell to 213! Ugh.
I have had many nurses from different offices say how the scales at doctor offices are never calibrated and they don't really give much thought with weight since it fluctuates so much. So depending on the scale it can be way off.
Yes, every time I go to the doctor its always with a full belly! :flowerforyou:
I know this has got to be true. Which sucks because shouldn't the doctor's office be more accurate, not less? I hate the scale at the Dr. office because even when I was at my ideal weight, they would always show anywhere from 5 to 10 more!0 -
I'm on the 2nd week of trying to eat close to TDEE.... i have been eating 2500-2700....it seems like an insane amount and i'm NOT liking it...... I have cut back on my cardio the past few weeks...and this is the most frustrating thing I've ever done... I feel like a useless lump. :sick: :huh: :ohwell: I would rather work myself silly, do intermittent fasting etc, but alas... none of that worked......so after forever of trying to figure this out, I think my metabolism is the rotten culprit. :explode:
When someone still have a LOT to lose...as in...70-90 more ( never been a normal weight, so I need to see where I really should be... likely closer to the 90...) is it REALLY necesarry to eat THAT high? According to my bodybugg...on a sedentary day....( home sick, or weekend spent indoors..) I burn about 2350 cals... on an intense exercise day with a full day of my desk job, I can burn up to 3750 ( 800 cals Zumba, 300 cals Kettlebell, 100 cals or so Weighted Hula Hoop) .... my Bodybugg stats on average over a week state between 2750 and 2950 over the course of the week. ..... some of the days, this means eating the TDEE is actually eating MORE then I burn on a given day?!
The first few days I did not see any gain, was just steady, but now, unless it's from eating too much salty foods/not enough water ( I suppose it could be???) I have seen a few pounds on the scale gained. TRULLY hoping it is water, because I have fought tooth and nail to get rid of every stinkin' pound ...:(.... I'm not even quite to my supposed TDEE...but am terrified of even THIS level...if I have to do another few weeks of this... the concept of more pounds on the scale is making me insane!!!!
Fear, frustration and tears are quite normal in this group. I know that I have found Eating More much harder emotionally, physically and mentally than I found eating very little and exercising like a crazy fool. It's a mind game and you have to be strong and determined in your mind if you want to be able to see this through. You have to focus on the end goal...what type of life do you want when this is all said and done and you are at the weight you want to be? do you want to be able to sustain that weight? Live a full life? be able to still eat and not gain it all back? Those are end goals of this process...well worth the crappy journey to get there!
I highly recommend you read through this sticky post http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/521728-upping-cals-what-to-expect-why-you-need-patience so that you will know what to expect the first little while.
Also, its totally normal to eat above and below your burn amount when you are eating at tdee and that is because the tdee is averaged for the WEEK. not a daily number. So its ok to go above and below throughout the week. that's a good sign your numbers are right. :happy:0 -
I have officially set my calories to TDEE....woo-hoo...here we go!
Oh and I got on the scale today - wanted to start this reset with all the correct numbers and I was 2 pounds....and immediately thought oh no I don't want to do a reset.....
Don't worry I feed the litte voice in my head and she's happy now plotting ways to torture the scale.
Has anyone else had problems with the little voice? Or did you physically hide the scale?
I had my husband hide the scale - i am way to obsessed with it
Maybe this will be my method for the month of June :bigsmile: break the addiction....0 -
Wow, this thread moves fast at times!
To everyone concerned about weight gain, this is what I try to keep in mind:
You are resetting to repair the damage done while starving yourself and working out way too much if that was the case. The damage was not just to your metabolism, there was some physical damage. Some of the weight gain during a reset is evidence that your body is repairing that damage whether that be replacing fluids, rebuilding muscle, increasing bone density, etc. Sure, a little bit might be fat that will have to be taken back off sensibly during a cut, but most of it is necessary gain. I consider that what comes back was not worthy weight loss anyways, it was unhealthy weight loss from parts of my body I shouldn't have been losing weight i.e muscles, bones, supportive tissues, fluids.
I hope that makes sense so some of you and helps a little when you step on the dreaded scale!
Now, please remind me of this on my next weigh in day too!:laugh:0 -
Today is day two. I got on the scale for the last time this morning and will check in again in four weeks. I worked out this morning for the first time since Saturday and I have the goal to eat just my BMR today. If that isn't correct, please let me know.
I made a shopping list yesterday of stuff to pick up at the store tonight. I think I am going to add some protein powder to my diet since I was looking at other people's diaries yesterday and I think that is an easy way to increase my calories. Thoughts?0 -
Today is day two. I got on the scale for the last time this morning and will check in again in four weeks. I worked out this morning for the first time since Saturday and I have the goal to eat just my BMR today. If that isn't correct, please let me know.
I made a shopping list yesterday of stuff to pick up at the store tonight. I think I am going to add some protein powder to my diet since I was looking at other people's diaries yesterday and I think that is an easy way to increase my calories. Thoughts?
Protein powder is a great way to increase cals and get the protein you need at the same time...I have 2 drinks/day (one in the morning and one at night) and it has helped a lot.0
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