Woman Claims to be a 'Former Lesbian'
UponThisRock
Posts: 4,519 Member
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/06/04/former-lesbian-says-change-possible
There isn't much to this video, basically the woman claims to be a born-again Christian and was "healed" from being a lesbian.
As a heterosexual, I can't "get inside the heads" of homosexuals. 99% of the time, homosexuals will say that they were "born this way," and "can't change." I accept that.
Here's my question: If someone says they have changed, how can I not also accept that? I can't really know how people feel in the hearts either way.
There isn't much to this video, basically the woman claims to be a born-again Christian and was "healed" from being a lesbian.
As a heterosexual, I can't "get inside the heads" of homosexuals. 99% of the time, homosexuals will say that they were "born this way," and "can't change." I accept that.
Here's my question: If someone says they have changed, how can I not also accept that? I can't really know how people feel in the hearts either way.
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the woman claims to be a born-again Christian
That makes me skeptical right off the bat.0 -
the woman claims to be a born-again Christian
That makes me skeptical right off the bat.
^^Agreed0 -
Not sure how making jabs at Christianity will address the issues here, but anyway.....
Looks to me like she was living a homosexual lifestyle and now has chosen not to. Some may argue that she wasn't really a lesbian, but was living the lifestyle. People who are born homosexual cannot "change" that, but they can make choices on what lifestyle to live.
I don't think she's doing the LGBT community any good by saying God helped her change from homosexual to heterosexual, but I'm not sure that's what I heard her saying.0 -
People who are born homosexual cannot "change" that, but they can make choices on what lifestyle to live.
How can you say for sure that she didn't "change?"
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to stir up debate for kicks, I'd really like some perspective on this question.0 -
I don't think people who are born homosexual can just change that, anymore than someone born heterosexual can change that. We can, however, make choices to be in relationships with whoever we want just as we can choose not to be in a relationship. I believe there are homosexuals who are living in a heterosexual relationship because of religious or social stigma issues. That doesn't make them heterosexual, though.How can you say for sure that she didn't "change?"0 -
I don't think people who are born homosexual can just change that, anymore than someone born heterosexual can change that. We can, however, make choices to be in relationships with whoever we want just as we can choose not to be in a relationship. I believe there are homosexuals who are living in a heterosexual relationship because of religious or social stigma issues. That doesn't make them heterosexual, though.How can you say for sure that she didn't "change?"
So it's just based on your personal belief?0 -
Based on what I believe from conversations I've had with my homosexual friends.So it's just based on your personal belief?0 -
I don't think people who are born homosexual can just change that, anymore than someone born heterosexual can change that. We can, however, make choices to be in relationships with whoever we want just as we can choose not to be in a relationship. I believe there are homosexuals who are living in a heterosexual relationship because of religious or social stigma issues. That doesn't make them heterosexual, though.How can you say for sure that she didn't "change?"
I agree with that - I have personally known several homosexuals that are or attempted to live the hetero lifestyle. It works for some, but others can't take the strain of being something you are not. I think if you are born homosexual, that is what you are. There is no "changing". Because of the society we live in many try to change or adapt and it just doesn't work. I have often thought that women could "hide" or disguise their sexuality better than men, but that doesn't mean they are happy.0 -
Based on what I believe from conversations I've had with my homosexual friends.So it's just based on your personal belief?
Outside of the personal connection, why is their word more valid than hers?0 -
I never said their word was more valid than hers. If she thinks she's "changed" from being a lesbian to being a heterosexual because of finding religion, then I'm not going to argue with her.Outside of the personal connection, why is their word more valid than hers?0 -
I don't believe people like hat were ever gay. They might have been bisexual but they weren't completely homosexual. Since Upon will probably ask why I feel that way I'll go ahead and answer with a question. You say you are completely heterosexual. Could you ever imagine yourself becoming homosexual for any reason? I know I can't.0
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I don't believe people like hat were ever gay. They might have been bisexual but they weren't completely homosexual. Since Upon will probably ask why I feel that way I'll go ahead and answer with a question. You say you are completely heterosexual. Could you ever imagine yourself becoming homosexual for any reason? I know I can't.
No, I couldn't.
But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?
And if the only thing we're going on is our personal beliefs, what makes my belief any more valid than the former lesbian's?0 -
Believe her then. The problem with this, though, is she's claiming that others can do the same thing.But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?0 -
Believe her then. The problem with this, though, is she's claiming that others can do the same thing.But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?
Edit: scratch that, I don't want to get off topic here.
Claiming that others can do the same thing is simply the next logical step from what she already believes is true.
What I may or may not personally believe isn't the issue, the question is do I have anything to go on other than my belief.0 -
Here's a lot of research on the subject, Rock:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html
The conclusion - at least the most recent update - seems to be that "There was no way to judge the credibility of subject reports of change in sexual orientation."
Which kinda doesn't answer much, but there's a lot of information there.0 -
Believe her then. The problem with this, though, is she's claiming that others can do the same thing.But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?
Why is that a problem?
that idea is likely to cause a lot of grief among those who wish they could change (bc of being made to feel bad/societal pressures), but feel unable to.0 -
Believe her then. The problem with this, though, is she's claiming that others can do the same thing.But my point is, if there were someone that said that they could "change" to being homosexual, how do I know that they're wrong, other than my personal belief?
Why is that a problem?
that idea is likely to cause a lot of grief among those who wish they could change (bc of being made to feel bad/societal pressures), but feel unable to.
you caught me before the edit, lol0 -
Here's a lot of research on the subject, Rock:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_changing.html
The conclusion - at least the most recent update - seems to be that "There was no way to judge the credibility of subject reports of change in sexual orientation."
Which kinda doesn't answer much, but there's a lot of information there.
Pretty much what I suspected.
Although, they should have at least tried playing Madonna records.0 -
the question is do I have anything to go on other than my belief.
nope. neither does she. But she is making claims that run counter to the things we have observed.
Many efforts have been made, mostly under the umbrella of religious thought, to find a way to "cure" someone of homosexuality. These don't usually end well, and are pretty traumatic to the victims.
If she feels happier now, well, good for her, but she doesn't need to spread the idea that other should or could follow in her footsteps.0 -
Exactly. All we need is Christian extrmeists using her as an example as a "cure" for homosexuality!nope. neither does she. But she is making claims that run counter to the things we have observed.
Many efforts have been made, mostly under the umbrella of religious thought, to find a way to "cure" someone of homosexuality. These don't usually end well, and are pretty traumatic to the victims.
If she feels happier now, well, good for her, but she doesn't need to spread the idea that other should or could follow in her footsteps.0 -
????Although, they should have at least tried playing Madonna records.0 -
Many efforts have been made, mostly under the umbrella of religious thought, to find a way to "cure" someone of homosexuality. These don't usually end well, and are pretty traumatic to the victims.
But how can we discredit those who say it has worked for them?If she feels happier now, well, good for her, but she doesn't need to spread the idea that other should or could follow in her footsteps.
If she believes her story to be accurate, she has just as much a right to tell her story and encourage others to follow in her path as someone to believes the opposite.0 -
I don't think anyone is debating with you on whether or not she has a right to tell her story.If she believes her story to be accurate, she has just as much a right to tell her story and encourage others to follow in her path as someone to believes the opposite.0 -
I don't think anyone is debating with you on whether or not she has a right to tell her story.If she feels happier now, well, good for her, but she doesn't need to spread the idea that other should or could follow in her footsteps.
Uhhhh...might be semantics, but...0 -
Sharing her story is one thing. Telling people that it can happen "if you want it bad enough" is very different.Uhhhh...might be semantics, but...0 -
Like I said. Semantics.0
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Oh, and Rock, here's another piece where the head of Exodus Int'l (the gropup with whom Janet is or was affiliated) states pretty explicitly that no one there thinks that they can change sexual orientation:
http://gay.americablog.com/2011/03/head-of-exodus-tells-lisa-ling-you-cant.html
It's just about celibacy.0 -
Many efforts have been made, mostly under the umbrella of religious thought, to find a way to "cure" someone of homosexuality. These don't usually end well, and are pretty traumatic to the victims.
But how can we discredit those who say it has worked for them?If she feels happier now, well, good for her, but she doesn't need to spread the idea that other should or could follow in her footsteps.
If she believes her story to be accurate, she has just as much a right to tell her story and encourage others to follow in her path as someone to believes the opposite.
to me, hearing this is sort of on par with hearing someone tell me they lost 50 lbs by going on the HCG diet. I cringe, and hope they will be the exception. But experience has given me the insight to realize those 50 lbs are likely to reappear.0 -
Bump for later0
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I believe someone's sexual orientation can change. I think sexuality is pretty fluid actually (no pun intended). I think one can be born with tendencies toward being homosexual, but I see no reason for that necessarily to maintain as a constant throughout their lives.
I am, however, more than a little skeptical that someone can make a conscious decision that they want to change and have that be effective. Sexuality and sexual orientation are really complex topics both on a personal level and how we view sexuality as a society. The fact that self-reporting comes into play in a big way can be another complicating factor.
I recall seeing a story in the UK were some stereotypical straight guy had a stroke and woke up gay, and he's quite happy being so. So who knows?
I think the real problem is if someone feels like something in themselves is wrong (or it's otherwise clear that something is wrong0, how do we go about addressing that. If it's that they're alcoholic, that's one thing. But the mistake I think that gets made is making a comparison between homosexuality and various disease that isn't valid.
Lots of people who condemn homosexuality see it just as a behavior and don't understand the degree to which identity is involved.0
This discussion has been closed.