Woman Claims to be a 'Former Lesbian'
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It's too bad that you can't see why that would be offensive. While I'll grant you that some people need to "lighten up", I also believe many people need to learn to be considerate and sensitive to others' points of view. If you know that the word "retarded" is offensive to many, why would you keep using it?I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled.
because it a word and can be used in different ways stop being so offended that's so gay!
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It's too bad that you can't see why that would be offensive. While I'll grant you that some people need to "lighten up", I also believe many people need to learn to be considerate and sensitive to others' points of view. If you know that the word "retarded" is offensive to many, why would you keep using it?I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled.
because it a word and can be used in different ways stop being so offended that's so gay!
That doesn't really answer the question; it just states how the word is functioning. Patti asked why someone would use a word when it's known to be offensive to another group. Based on your response, I would guess that your real answer is that you don't care that it's offensive, or you think your use of it is more important.
Could we really argue against that when "that's so gay" is being used as a general pejorative, that the only reason it has any meaning or weight is because it's feeding off of prejudice against homosexuals? I kind of doubt it. If people didn't already have a problem with homosexuality, there would be no reason to use the word "gay" in that context; it would be sort of random and silly. If someone who had no idea what "gay" meant in any context started using it, it would be a matter of ignorance at that point.
Of course if you honestly didn't know that's why the word was being used that way, then I forgive your ignorance 0 -
He just kind of made my point. Gay is also word with several meanings. If you use it to describe someone at all, you are committing an offense against humanity. I'm pretty sure it meant colorful, joyous and happy before it meant homosexual.
It's too bad that you can't see why that would be offensive. While I'll grant you that some people need to "lighten up", I also believe many people need to learn to be considerate and sensitive to others' points of view. If you know that the word "retarded" is offensive to many, why would you keep using it?I'm the person who will call something "retarded" without even thinking about it in reference to a person who is actually mentally disabled.
because it a word and can be used in different ways stop being so offended that's so gay!
If everyone stopped using words that offended someone else, we could probably eliminate the English language. As long as you aren't using a word in a derrogatory sense, why should someone be offended?0 -
If everyone stopped using words that offended someone else, we could probably eliminate the English language. As long as you aren't using a word in a derrogatory sense, why should someone be offended?
I'm open to hearing more of this. If you're referring to something as retarded or gay because you're displeased with it in some sense, how is that not derogatory?
It's kind of like saying "Oh I know I used a word that can apply to you, but I was totally talking about some other thing that I don't like and I used a word that has a negative connotation in my head. But there's no reason you should feel associated with it."
I just don't see how that kind of justification works.0 -
If everyone stopped using words that offended someone else, we could probably eliminate the English language. As long as you aren't using a word in a derrogatory sense, why should someone be offended?
I'm open to hearing more of this. If you're referring to something as retarded or gay because you're displeased with it in some sense, how is that not derogatory?
It's kind of like saying "Oh I know I used a word that can apply to you, but I was totally talking about some other thing that I don't like and I used a word that has a negative connotation in my head. But there's no reason you should feel associated with it."
I just don't see how that kind of justification works.
If I'm using a word such as "gay or retarded" it DOESN'T have a negative connotation in my head. I suppose they just simply have a different menaing to me when I use them in that sense. Even my 47 year old boss will occasionally say, "that's retarded or that's gay" and she has a disabled brother and her best friend is gay. Some people take offense to it and others don't see it that way.
How can a word used as an adjective to describe a situation or scenario be offensive unless you are using it in reference to a person? Once again, should I not use a word that has different meanings because ONE meaning my offend someone?0 -
I just don't see how that kind of justification works.
It doesn't.0 -
If everyone stopped using words that offended someone else, we could probably eliminate the English language. As long as you aren't using a word in a derrogatory sense, why should someone be offended?
I'm open to hearing more of this. If you're referring to something as retarded or gay because you're displeased with it in some sense, how is that not derogatory?
It's kind of like saying "Oh I know I used a word that can apply to you, but I was totally talking about some other thing that I don't like and I used a word that has a negative connotation in my head. But there's no reason you should feel associated with it."
I just don't see how that kind of justification works.
so let me get this "straight" If I say, "Hey that that Guy has amazing style He is so Gay." ( in a positive way) you would be OK with it? And ....wow that speaker in the meeting was retarded I loved the presentation. (meaning that they enjoyed the meeting and its extended length..instead of the adverse of an awesome meeting a LAME meeting, Sorry I hope not to offend any gimpy people reading this)0 -
I really wouldn't use someone else's ignorance as a defense on this one. I don't care if her own children are diagnosed as mentally retarded and she uses the word. You'd think she would "get it".If I'm using a word such as "gay or retarded" it DOESN'T have a negative connotation in my head. I suppose they just simply have a different menaing to me when I use them in that sense. Even my 47 year old boss will occasionally say, "that's retarded or that's gay" and she has a disabled brother and her best friend is gay. Some people take offense to it and others don't see it that way.
My question, again: Why would you continue to use a word that you know to be offensive to a group of people? Is your vocabulary such that you cannot find a different adjective?How can a word used as an adjective to describe a situation or scenario be offensive unless you are using it in reference to a person? Once again, should I not use a word that has different meanings because ONE meaning my offend someone?0 -
I can't tell if you're being serious or snarky. Both of your above examples are offensive.so let me get this "straight" If I say, "Hey that that Guy has amazing style He is so Gay." ( in a positive way) you would be OK with it? And ....wow that speaker in the meeting was retarded I loved the presentation. (meaning that they enjoyed the meeting and its extended length..instead of the adverse of an awesome meeting a LAME meeting, Sorry I hope not to offend any gimpy people reading this)0 -
I really wouldn't use someone else's ignorance as a defense on this one. I don't care if her own children are diagnosed as mentally retarded and she uses the word. You'd think she would "get it".If I'm using a word such as "gay or retarded" it DOESN'T have a negative connotation in my head. I suppose they just simply have a different menaing to me when I use them in that sense. Even my 47 year old boss will occasionally say, "that's retarded or that's gay" and she has a disabled brother and her best friend is gay. Some people take offense to it and others don't see it that way.
My question, again: Why would you continue to use a word that you know to be offensive to a group of people? Is your vocabulary such that you cannot find a different adjective?How can a word used as an adjective to describe a situation or scenario be offensive unless you are using it in reference to a person? Once again, should I not use a word that has different meanings because ONE meaning my offend someone?
It's not that she doesn't "get it" she's just not an defensive and easily offended person. There are many people with children with disabilties who are not offended by that term if used in a different way. I would use the word because I am NOT using it in a derrogatory sense.
If you said, " look at how blue the sky is!" and I told you I didn't want to hear the word blue, it makes me feel depressed. Would you stop using the word blue?0 -
It's not about HER. If she knows others find it offensive, why would she continue to use it?It's not that she doesn't "get it" she's just not an defensive and easily offended person. There are many people with children with disabilties who are not offended by that term if used in a different way. I would use the word because I am NOT using it in a derrogatory sense.
If you were my friend and you were serious that the word "blue" depressed you, I would not use it around you. Why would I?If you said, " look at how blue the sky is!" and I told you I didn't want to hear the word blue, it makes me feel depressed. Would you stop using the word blue?0 -
so let me get this "straight" If I say, "Hey that that Guy has amazing style He is so Gay." ( in a positive way) you would be OK with it? And ....wow that speaker in the meeting was retarded I loved the presentation. (meaning that they enjoyed the meeting and its extended length..instead of the adverse of an awesome meeting a LAME meeting, Sorry I hope not to offend any gimpy people reading this)
Both uses of these words are outside their reasonable conventional or colloquial definitions. It's akin to my deciding that the term massivedelta is a synonym for *kitten* and using it in that sense, "Does that guy really not understand how offensive he is or is he just a total massivedelta?"
In this case I have taken a word that has no real connection with the definition I have applied to it and used it for my own means.
As your example did with gay and retarded.0 -
If you said, " look at how blue the sky is!" and I told you I didn't want to hear the word blue, it makes me feel depressed. Would you stop using the word blue?
If you were my friend and you were serious that the word "blue" depressed you, I would not use it around you. Why would I?
To me it's silly for someone to ask you to stop using a word just because they don't like it. They can ignoring it, they can get over it or they can hate me. People are also offended by cursing, but it's done regardless.
No one is right or wrong in their opinion of the word but I don't think anyone should have a place in say what someone should say or shouldn't say.0 -
Also, OMG, Evan's SO gay. In the sense that...y'know, he's actually gay. So there's nothing wrong with saying that here. Because he's gay.
If I read that wrong and you're not gay, Evan, just smile and say you're flattered.0 -
I can't tell if you're being serious or snarky. Both of your above examples are offensive.so let me get this "straight" If I say, "Hey that that Guy has amazing style He is so Gay." ( in a positive way) you would be OK with it? And ....wow that speaker in the meeting was retarded I loved the presentation. (meaning that they enjoyed the meeting and its extended length..instead of the adverse of an awesome meeting a LAME meeting, Sorry I hope not to offend any gimpy people reading this)
Its only offensive to those who find it offensive because they have wound themselves so tight they fail at being normal. Just because I dont espouse to the same beliefs you do doesn't mean the usage of those words are in accurate or wrong. My language is used to convey a point not make sure no one was offended.
for instance...I also have some gay friends but Im not gay. I dont know anything about being gay other than what Im told by my gay friends. Only a few of them actually say "I was born this way" the rest of them say being gay is a choice and anyone who says different is afraid of the public retribution from family and friends. If your born this way no one can hate you for something you cant control. Its a justification to make your choice more acceptable to the non gay community. Im not here to argue this point because No one...Not a single person can prove otherwise ..so its a waste.
Being retarded is a medical term meaning: (Less advanced, esp. mentally, than is usual for one's age.)...It certainly is not the retarded persons fault and If I refer to something that has taken place as retarded. Then it is not up to par. Im not saying this to offend a retarded person Im describing whatever took place.
In the instance of the word gay as a descriptor you have a more valid point. However; Gay as slang is often used as a negative connotation because being gay has a negative connotation. It may not be the happiest thing in the world but it is what it is. Its not accepted socially despite the gay community trying as it might to make Gay more mainstream. Gay is: in an evolutionary sense a negative trait. In Darwin's theory evolutionary genetic traits that are advantageous to a species pass on and continue to be propagated. While negative traits...Traits that create a disadvantage or are less than desirable cause the carriers to die out. It may not be your fault but science is what science is.
If its not a choice than you are nothing more that a less desirable genetic trait that is doomed to pass and not be carried on...That in itself is not a good thing. It is natural selection. A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
So when someone says that is gay...It is ultimately not something that is desirable0 -
So when someone says that is gay...It is ultimately not something that is desirable
So you admit that you're associating gay to something negative, not just by the quoted remark but by the rest of your statements. You can't then say that when you use it as a means of describing something else as negative that it isn't derogatory. Thus it's offensive to the group who're using as part of your expression who doesn't see anything objectionable about themselves.0 -
I really wouldn't use someone else's ignorance as a defense on this one. I don't care if her own children are diagnosed as mentally retarded and she uses the word. You'd think she would "get it".If I'm using a word such as "gay or retarded" it DOESN'T have a negative connotation in my head. I suppose they just simply have a different menaing to me when I use them in that sense. Even my 47 year old boss will occasionally say, "that's retarded or that's gay" and she has a disabled brother and her best friend is gay. Some people take offense to it and others don't see it that way.
My question, again: Why would you continue to use a word that you know to be offensive to a group of people? Is your vocabulary such that you cannot find a different adjective?How can a word used as an adjective to describe a situation or scenario be offensive unless you are using it in reference to a person? Once again, should I not use a word that has different meanings because ONE meaning my offend someone?
It's not that she doesn't "get it" she's just not an defensive and easily offended person. There are many people with children with disabilties who are not offended by that term if used in a different way. I would use the word because I am NOT using it in a derrogatory sense.
If you said, " look at how blue the sky is!" and I told you I didn't want to hear the word blue, it makes me feel depressed. Would you stop using the word blue?
Mandy, why do people say something is "that's retarded" or "that's gay" ? Let's assume we're not referencing something or someone who really is retarded or gay. Is there some other reason than it's because that something or someone is annoying or some other random negative quality? I think we can agree, for your part of this discussion, that we're talking about times when things have gone down in a way that ticks us off, or we think they're stupid, etc.
You're commenting on something that bothers you in some way. If you're suggesting that you're using either the word "gay" or "retarded" for some other reason apart from the fact that it may also have a negative connotation (even if you don't have a negative connotation, soomeone else might, or popular society might), then I kind of don't believe you.
The best you can get away with is that you don't know why you're saying what you're saying. And that's not great either.
Your association of the negative occurance, by using gay or retarded as descriptor, says a lot about what you think of people who are gay or retarded even if that isn't your intent.
Ultimately it comes down to this:
It defeats the entire purpose of respect to put our own interpretations of arguably offensive material ahead of someone else's without some pretty good reasons for it..other than we want to.
Why bother being respectful at all, or telling kids to not say anything if they have nothing nice to say if we don't really care if other person finds what we say offensive.
What you're really saying here is that it doesn't matter what the other person thinks because you're embracing your individual right to say what you like. And you do have that right. Other people would also be expressing their rights by calling you out for it.0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.0 -
Also, OMG, Evan's SO gay. In the sense that...y'know, he's actually gay. So there's nothing wrong with saying that here. Because he's gay.
If I read that wrong and you're not gay, Evan, just smile and say you're flattered.
Oh I'm gay. I'm not sure I'm SO gay.
I can't be that gay. I haven't gotten my copy of this years agenda yet. And I totally ordered the kitchenaid mixer as the free gift *shakes fist angrily*
/sarcasm 0 -
To me it's silly for someone to ask you to stop using a word just because they don't like it. They can ignoring it, they can get over it or they can hate me. People are also offended by cursing, but it's done regardless.
No one is right or wrong in their opinion of the word but I don't think anyone should have a place in say what someone should say or shouldn't say.
So, you'd rather someone "hate you" or "get over it" when you're using words that you know are offensive, than you just refrain from using them? I just don't get that type of mentality. Why would I cuss around people I know are offended by cussing? Why would I choose to use words that I know to be offensive to certain groups of people? Wouldn't it be kinder to just stop using those words than to tell others to "get over it" or "hate me if you want"?0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.
Its common for those negative genetic traits to continue to pop up as they remain as genetic mutations in the line. The other possibility is...they aren't genetic at all, they are choices.0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.
Its common for those negative genetic traits to continue to pop up as they remain as genetic mutations in the line. The other possibility is...they aren't genetic at all, they are choices.
It's factually inaccurate to think that something must either be generic or a choice.0 -
If its not a choice than you are nothing more that a less desirable genetic trait that is doomed to pass and not be carried on.Its common for those negative genetic traits to continue to pop up as they remain as genetic mutations in the line.
Doomed to pass and not be carried on, yet they'll continue to pop up? Which is it?0 -
Are you for real? So, because I have an autistic child and find the word "retarded" offensive, it's because I've failed at being normal? Or because I have an immediate family member who is homosexual and I find the word "gay" offensive it's because I've "wound myself up so tight"? Do you also use racial slurs? I mean, the "n" word is only offensive to those who fail at being normal according to you, right?Its only offensive to those who find it offensive because they have wound themselves so tight they fail at being normal.0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.
Desirable to the eyes does not mean desirable in the evolutionary sense. As a gay man is not a willing baby maker; therefore he cant impregnate a female of the species. When all she desires is to procreate she would not choose a gay man as that will not allow her to become pregnant, hence not desirable.0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.
Desirable to the eyes does not mean desirable in the evolutionary sense. As a gay man is not a willing baby maker; therefore he cant impregnate a female of the species. When all she desires is to procreate she would not choose a gay man as that will not allow her to become pregnant, hence not desirable.
Wearing glasses isn't terribly desirable by that standard either there, sport. And yet I wouldn't call you four eyes (in part because I also wear glasses). More importantly, if you found it offensive, I would ask someone to stop using the term because it's disrespectful.0 -
Are you for real? So, because I have an autistic child and find the word "retarded" offensive, it's because I've failed at being normal? Or because I have an immediate family member who is homosexual and I find the word "gay" offensive it's because I've "wound myself up so tight"? Do you also use racial slurs? I mean, the "n" word is only offensive to those who fail at being normal according to you, right?Its only offensive to those who find it offensive because they have wound themselves so tight they fail at being normal.
As much as I don't see eye to eye with you patti, I believe it's just a trolling attempt 0 -
Are you for real? So, because I have an autistic child and find the word "retarded" offensive, it's because I've failed at being normal? Or because I have an immediate family member who is homosexual and I find the word "gay" offensive it's because I've "wound myself up so tight"? Do you also use racial slurs? I mean, the "n" word is only offensive to those who fail at being normal according to you, right?Its only offensive to those who find it offensive because they have wound themselves so tight they fail at being normal.
No!
An autistic child is not retarded. No the word retarded is a real word used to describe all kinds of things not just mentally retarded adults and children...Stop being so overly sensitive that you require every one around you to cater to your vocabulary requirements. I've explained it if you dont understand go back and read it. There is not other usage for the racial slur you describe. So that makes no sense. It is funny how people tend to automatically try to make someone a racist if they dont subscribe to their same beliefs. No one brought race into this.0 -
If its not a choice than you are nothing more that a less desirable genetic trait that is doomed to pass and not be carried on.Its common for those negative genetic traits to continue to pop up as they remain as genetic mutations in the line.
Doomed to pass and not be carried on, yet they'll continue to pop up? Which is it?
It wont ever become a primary trait of the species one that gets passed because its advantageous0 -
Curiously them doggone gays have been with us for pretty much the entire recorded history of humanity. That's one tough gene.A member of species that can not reproduce is not able to contribute to the gene pool.
I think that when looked at in that sense that it's kinda saying that the gays are about the toughest among us, isn't it? And who doesn't want to be tough?
As far as desireable, how many Hollywood stars have been held up as male icons throughout the years and who've turned out to be gay? Go as far back as Johnny Weismueller or as recently as Vin Diesel and I think that both men and women have always found many gay men quite desireable.
Its common for those negative genetic traits to continue to pop up as they remain as genetic mutations in the line. The other possibility is...they aren't genetic at all, they are choices.
It's factually inaccurate to think that something must either be generic or a choice.
If you have another way to explain it please do so. From the mouths of every person in this thread. Gays are born that way. (genetic) the alternative is?0
This discussion has been closed.