Obamacare
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LuckyLeprechaun
Posts: 6,296 Member
SCOTUS is supposed to announce their decision on Obamacare tomorrow.
Since this topic is all hot and fresh, let's go over it, shall we?
Thoughts?
My hope is that the individual mandate will be deemed to be unconstitutional, which I believe it is, and the entire law will be gutted.
I dislike the way student loans were ever so quietly taken over with this law and I want to go back to paying my loan back to the bank of my choice, rather than dealing directly with the Federal Government, who has unlimited enforcement powers, including the ability to go into my bank account and take out money.
Since this topic is all hot and fresh, let's go over it, shall we?
Thoughts?
My hope is that the individual mandate will be deemed to be unconstitutional, which I believe it is, and the entire law will be gutted.
I dislike the way student loans were ever so quietly taken over with this law and I want to go back to paying my loan back to the bank of my choice, rather than dealing directly with the Federal Government, who has unlimited enforcement powers, including the ability to go into my bank account and take out money.
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Replies
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I agree with you!0
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I agree with you!
Hey look! I agree with you too
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:drinker:Hey look! I agree with you too0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?0
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Personally, I like the idea of universal health care. I've done a lot of research into other countries that have it, and it's not nearly as bad as Americans seem to think it is. The universal mandate, however, I do not believe is the way to go with it. I think Germany's Shared Responsibility system is.
In their system, you pay 4-6% of your income into a "sickness fund" and that money chills there until you need to use it for health reasons. Also, your employer matches the amount you have saved. If you are unemployed, your health care comes from tax dollars. Along with the sickness fund, citizens have a private insurance plan that they can also get if they choose. This takes down waiting lines and gives patients the choice of hospitals that they want to go to whereas the people who are unemployed don't have that (from what I understand).
Being that we pay so much of our tax dollars for the people who go to the emergency room and can't pay anyway, this seems to be a more responsible option to me.
Really, I don't believe that the individual mandate is unconstitutional in any way. As many times as I have read the Constitution, I didn't see anything in there that it would fit into. It might fit into the "right to privacy" that is implied with the 4th Amendment. But, if you're going to go that rout, then banning gay marriage, drugs, and abortion are unconstitutional. Likewise, the transvaginal ultrasounds are too.
Also, I just have to laugh because the Supreme Court justices and congress people are getting the type of health care that they're saying is "unconstitutional."0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
I wondered this myself. And, if socialized health care is so bad, why is socialized education not? I'm enjoying socialized education pretty well, myself. And I get my health care through the school too. Oh, man, I'm a commie.0 -
Personally, I like the idea of universal health care. I've done a lot of research into other countries that have it, and it's not nearly as bad as Americans seem to think it is.
Really? I have talked with many people who have moved to the US from other countries that have universal health care. Every one of them has stated how much better it is in the US because you can get in with a doctor right away instead of waiting many months for appointments.0 -
Personally, I like the idea of universal health care. I've done a lot of research into other countries that have it, and it's not nearly as bad as Americans seem to think it is.
Really? I have talked with many people who have moved to the US from other countries that have universal health care. Every one of them has stated how much better it is in the US because you can get in with a doctor right away instead of waiting many months for appointments.
That also depends on where they're from. If you notice, I didn't say it was better EVERYWHERE. I said that it was better mainly in Germany, and if I still have the powerpoints from my political science class, I would love to show you graphs of waiting lines in other countries compared with the US.0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
I can choose not to have a car. I can't opt out of my body.
I find nothing in the constitution which allows the government to force Americans to purchase something, and fine them if they choose not to.0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
Auto insurance mandates are not federal. They are handled on the state level. In addition, if you do not have a car you do not have to have auto insurance.
I think everyone should have health insurance. I don't think the federal government should be involved in it.0 -
Here's a link to what I said before:
http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Performance-Snapshots/International-Comparisons/International-Comparison--Access---Timeliness.aspx0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
Auto insurance mandates are not federal. They are handled on the state level. In addition, if you do not have a car you do not have to have auto insurance.
I think everyone should have health insurance. I don't think the federal government should be involved in it.
Who do you think should provide it? I agree that the federal government should not provide it for everybody, but I want to know your opinion on who should.0 -
I'm not opposed to Universal Healthcare, I just don't like the way they're trying to put it into action. Friends of mine and I get into fierce arguments about this very subject, as they are hardcore republicans and I have more of an independent stance.
I like the No pre-existing condition factor -- I have one of those that in the past could have caused me to be denied for Insurance.
Germany's idea sounds relatively good, almost like a HSA?0 -
I don't know the details of "Obamacare" but all I can say is I live in the UK and the NHS is the best damn thing about this country. No it's not perfect (though I would like to add that even though we have universal health care here, you can still get private health care too).
Nothing anyone can say to me will ever convince me that private healthcare is better, because even if your service is faster, there is still the huge problem that you literally let people die because they can't afford healthcare.
It is seriously barbaric that people can't get treated for cancer and **** because they can't afford treatment.
And yeah, sometimes people here can't get treatment because the council doesn't have enough money, but I still think it's better that people MIGHT miss out, rather than a whole chunk of the population DEFINITELY misses out. And remember, you can still choose private health care on top of the NHS, if you think the system is too slow or they deny you treatment (though this rarely happens, often they will send you to other parts of the country to get treatment if it's not available in your area)
Basically, our system works, the NHS is fantastic, it has it flaws - but so does a system where if you can't afford health, you don't get it.
And from a selfish perspective, if you really don't care about the greater good and welfare of other people, I don't get how you feel comfortable putting your HEALTH in the hands of companies out to make PROFIT.
Of course they're gonna screw you over if they have the chance, they just want your money! Insurance companies don't care about giving you the best service, they just want to give you enough that you'll keep paying them.0 -
I agree with sexforjaffacakes. I mean, what exactly does the insurance company do? You pay for treatment, go to the hospital/doctor and get treatment, and yet they still make out like bandits. They do no good for anybody. Which is what Germany's system eliminates. You use your own money (provided you have a job) to pay for what you need.0
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If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
I wondered this myself. And, if socialized health care is so bad, why is socialized education not? I'm enjoying socialized education pretty well, myself. And I get my health care through the school too. Oh, man, I'm a commie.
Socialized education and forced car insurance IS bad.....just its been in place so long ppl dont know any diff. The best healthcare in the world is in the US....if we truly wanted to get it cheaper we would enact Tort Rrform0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
I wondered this myself. And, if socialized health care is so bad, why is socialized education not? I'm enjoying socialized education pretty well, myself. And I get my health care through the school too. Oh, man, I'm a commie.
Socialized education and forced car insurance IS bad.....just its been in place so long ppl dont know any diff. The best healthcare in the world is in the US....if we truly wanted to get it cheaper we would enact Tort Rrform
Actually, if you look at the link I provided, it has statistics that show that America does not, indeed have the best health care in the world.0 -
I think germany's system sounds fine.
To me, a perfect system would be...
You had a specific NHS tax - half of what it used to be, because...
You put money into a special account, for your own healthcare...
your work pays money into your healthcare (and all companies have to do this, again remembering tax is reflective of this)
the tax is till there, to support you if your healthcare account doesn't have enough money, and to fully pay for people that can't afford healthcare.
If people can't afford healthcare, the state should supply it. End of.0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
Auto insurance mandates are not federal. They are handled on the state level. In addition, if you do not have a car you do not have to have auto insurance.
I think everyone should have health insurance. I don't think the federal government should be involved in it.
Who do you think should provide it? I agree that the federal government should not provide it for everybody, but I want to know your opinion on who should.
Who do you think should provide something that you want?
Having any type of insurance is not a right. If you are an adult then YOU should provide YOUR insurance if you want it. If you have children then YOU should provide their insurance if you want it. If the citizens of a state vote to implement a health care law then so be it. I don't think anyone should be involved in my choice to have health insurance but if it happens it should be handled on a state level so I can chose to move. 0 -
If the mandate is deemed unconstitutional, doesn't that set the precedent that auto insurance mandates are unconstitutional as well?
Auto insurance mandates are not federal. They are handled on the state level. In addition, if you do not have a car you do not have to have auto insurance.
I think everyone should have health insurance. I don't think the federal government should be involved in it.
Who do you think should provide it? I agree that the federal government should not provide it for everybody, but I want to know your opinion on who should.
Who do you think should provide something that you want?
Having any type of insurance is not a right. If you are an adult then YOU should provide YOUR insurance if you want it. If you have children then YOU should provide their insurance if you want it. If the citizens of a state vote to implement a health care law then so be it. I don't think anyone should be involved in my choice to have health insurance but if it happens it should be handled on a state level so I can chose to move.
It's not just something that people WANT it's something that they NEED. There is a difference. And, what about the people who have children but can't afford health care for them? Their children should just get sick and die? That's cool, too, I guess.0
