Chick-Fila
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I find it ironic all of this publicity has increased Chick-Fila's sales allowing them to send even more money to anti-gay charities if they chose.0
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I find it ironic all of this publicity has increased Chick-Fila's sales allowing them to send even more money to anti-gay charities if they chose.
For one day....but we'll see if ticking of the other side of the topic is a long term loss.0 -
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Guys, every location is a franchise. The owner is a douche but the franchise owners didn't do anything wrong.
The owner should have known his comments would be polarizing, and would be likely to hurt the economic prospects of his franchisees. For that, and for his bigotry, I think he's a ****. He hurt the business of a whole lot of franchise owners with his unnecessary commentary.
I have never eaten at a Chick Fil-a, just because they aren't that common in my area. During the weekend, my sister wanted to go, so I went. I had a mediocre chicken sandwich, just what I expected from a fast food joint. The fries were nice. I guess.
I won't go out of my way to find a Chick Fil-a again, but it has nothing to do with anyone's politics.
Each "franchise owner" strongly would disagree with you. They are "privately owned," and Chick-Fil-A is not a "franchise." They may walk, talk, and smell like a franchise, but don't you dare say the word "franchise" when you describe Chick-Fil-A to a "private owner." :laugh: That was drilled into me on my first day, and was even mentioned in the interview--WE ARE NOT A FRANCHISE. EACH LOCATION IS PRIVATELY OWNED. Rinse, repeat. I'm not business-term savvy, so if there really is a difference in the case of Chick-Fil-A being franchised vs. privately owned, I have no idea. I honestly don't see the difference between them and a franchise, and never did. Supposedly the difference is there, though.
Anyway, the "private owner" I worked for once mentioned what you have to do to become a "private owner" of a Chick-Fil-A, as did a few others who were considering opening up their own in due time. Sure, you gotta have a large chunk of cash to start it off with, but you also have to subscribe to the "core beliefs" of Chick-Fil-A, and prove that you're an active member of a church they support, as well as proving that you are living the way they believe. So basically, you have to subscribe to everything the Cathy family subscribes to. Those "private owners" know exactly what kind of business they're running.0 -
But what is wrong with some Christians holding that as their ideal, as long as they're not bashing, hating, or discriminating against others who feel differently? Keep in mind, this also includes heterosexual couples divorcing, numerous remarriages, single moms raising children without a father to help, husbands having multiple wives, etc. This is not just about homosexual marriage. All this really means is that some people would love to see a mother and father raising their children in a happy, loving home because they feel that is what is best for children, all things considered equal. They can hold that as their ideal, whether or not it exists anymore. I respect people who will stand on their convictions, as long as they're not provoking hatred.'Traditional marriage' is at most 100 years old as we understand it. Traditional marriage as decried by Christians doesn't exist.
My problem is assuming that those who hold traditional family values as their ideal all hate or fear gay people. That's nonsense. Many of these same Christians have gay children whom they love unconditionally.
There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, moral values, ethical standards, etc.
I am all for a traditional family but I never express this to anyone else. I practice this in my household and if the neighbor is gay and in a partnership with another man, good for him. I am not going to judge them or go over with signs!
I am sick and tired of people shoving their ideals and what they think is correct down other people's throats.0 -
But what is wrong with some Christians holding that as their ideal, as long as they're not bashing, hating, or discriminating against others who feel differently? Keep in mind, this also includes heterosexual couples divorcing, numerous remarriages, single moms raising children without a father to help, husbands having multiple wives, etc. This is not just about homosexual marriage. All this really means is that some people would love to see a mother and father raising their children in a happy, loving home because they feel that is what is best for children, all things considered equal. They can hold that as their ideal, whether or not it exists anymore. I respect people who will stand on their convictions, as long as they're not provoking hatred.'Traditional marriage' is at most 100 years old as we understand it. Traditional marriage as decried by Christians doesn't exist.
My problem is assuming that those who hold traditional family values as their ideal all hate or fear gay people. That's nonsense. Many of these same Christians have gay children whom they love unconditionally.
Sadly, there seems to be little outrage from those people when it's a divorce, polygamy, remarriages or pre-marital sex. Though all sin is equal, apparently gay sin is worse.0 -
But what is wrong with some Christians holding that as their ideal, as long as they're not bashing, hating, or discriminating against others who feel differently? Keep in mind, this also includes heterosexual couples divorcing, numerous remarriages, single moms raising children without a father to help, husbands having multiple wives, etc. This is not just about homosexual marriage. All this really means is that some people would love to see a mother and father raising their children in a happy, loving home because they feel that is what is best for children, all things considered equal. They can hold that as their ideal, whether or not it exists anymore. I respect people who will stand on their convictions, as long as they're not provoking hatred.'Traditional marriage' is at most 100 years old as we understand it. Traditional marriage as decried by Christians doesn't exist.
My problem is assuming that those who hold traditional family values as their ideal all hate or fear gay people. That's nonsense. Many of these same Christians have gay children whom they love unconditionally.
Sadly, there seems to be little outrage from those people when it's a divorce, polygamy, remarriages or pre-marital sex. Though all sin is equal, apparently gay sin is worse.
That is so stupid. Christians rallying against gays! I am so sick of it. I am Catholic and I have absolutely nothing against gays. People just need to calm the *kitten* down with all this "gay" hating crap.0 -
Really? Maybe because all that gets mentioned when Christians say "Traditional Family Values" is that they're attacking homosexuals. Traditional Family Values encompasses all of the above.Sadly, there seems to be little outrage from those people when it's a divorce, polygamy, remarriages or pre-marital sex. Though all sin is equal, apparently gay sin is worse.0 -
Another reason we're friends!I am Catholic and I have absolutely nothing against gays.0 -
I keep trying to explain to my "pro traditional marriage" friends that this has nothing to do with freedom of speech or this president of chick filet's religous views. It has everything to do with him taking those views, just one of many christian views on the topic, backed my money, and using religious organizations to trample homosexual rights. Religious freedom does not mean you get to take freedom from others.0
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Patti, Turtle, anyone who cares to respond, I was talking to someone on FB last night, a family friend, who is a Christian. They were trumpeting loudly about having Chick Fil-a for dinner, so proud of themselves. I asked them why the sin of being gay was any different than any other sins, and I asked them if being gay is such a problem, why they don't hold to the other Levitican laws found in the exact same place in the Bible (none of the following are allowed: pork/shellfish/clothing of mixed materials/sowing fields with 2 kinds of seed/rounded haircuts or beards/tattoos/homosexuality)? I also asked him why, if homosexuality was such an abhorrent thing, why isn't it forbidden in the 10 Commandments, or ever mentioned by Jesus?
They took 3 hours to reply. They shrugged off my question about Levitican Law with a joke about bacon (her-de-har, nobody takes that seriously anymore, those laws were made up for the time period and culture they existed in), and they pointed to Sodom and Gomorrah. I didn't tell them that Jewish people and Muslim people still take the pork/shellfish thing very seriously.
I started doing a bit of googling, and among most archaeologists, the general belief seems to be Sodom and Gomorrah never actually existed outside of Biblical lore. They find no evidence of its existence, no remnants of it at all in the area described.
I told this to my friends. Their response was, of course there's no evidence, God wiped it off the Earth. The evidence is that it's not there. :huh:
Thoughts? I always viewed the Sodom and Gomorrah story as a cautionary tale, a parable, but not an actual occurrence. Like Jonah riding around in a creature's stomach for days, it illustrates a point but isn't a factual/historical account.0 -
Sadly, there seems to be little outrage from those people when it's a divorce, polygamy, remarriages or pre-marital sex. Though all sin is equal, apparently gay sin is worse.
Those things have had their day in outrage... or at least in some form, but as they have become more common place it's more on a covert level (I know the family on Sister Wives gets hate mail all the time... and I know people that have been ostracized for being divorced or "worse" remarried)... But this is why even though I may not agree with the lifestyle (any of these lifestyles... not picking on one particular one here) or life choices... I am not going to sit here condemning someone I don't agree with to hell... It's not my place for one... and while I may express my disagreement, I really don't have much room to talk... as one of the seven deadly sins is Gluttony... and it's obvious I have partook (is that a word? It doesn't look right.) in that sin quite a bit... otherwise I wouldn't be here.... I firmly believe in the passage of "don't go point out the speck in another's eye, when you have a plank in yours" (ok that's a bit paraphrased, but I think we all know which verse I'm talking about here)... Besides, there is no way to love your neighbor when you are too busy judging and condemning them...
With that said... will I stop going to Chik-fil-a... probably not (I don't eat there very often anyway)... I don't judge my morals based on where I eat or shop or whatever... if that were the case then I would be shopping for food at farmers markets instead of Target or I would be checking any and all clothing lables to make sure they weren't made in Hondurus... However, as a Christian, I will be praying for the groups and people that feel it necessary to hate their neighbors.... to me that is the antithesis of being a Christian.0 -
Patti, Turtle, anyone who cares to respond, I was talking to someone on FB last night, a family friend, who is a Christian. They were trumpeting loudly about having Chick Fil-a for dinner, so proud of themselves. I asked them why the sin of being gay was any different than any other sins, and I asked them if being gay is such a problem, why they don't hold to the other Levitican laws found in the exact same place in the Bible (none of the following are allowed: pork/shellfish/clothing of mixed materials/sowing fields with 2 kinds of seed/rounded haircuts or beards/tattoos/homosexuality)? I also asked him why, if homosexuality was such an abhorrent thing, why isn't it forbidden in the 10 Commandments, or ever mentioned by Jesus?
They took 3 hours to reply. They shrugged off my question about Levitican Law with a joke about bacon (her-de-har, nobody takes that seriously anymore, those laws were made up for the time period and culture they existed in), and they pointed to Sodom and Gomorrah. I didn't tell them that Jewish people and Muslim people still take the pork/shellfish thing very seriously.
I started doing a bit of googling, and among most archaeologists, the general belief seems to be Sodom and Gomorrah never actually existed outside of Biblical lore. They find no evidence of its existence, no remnants of it at all in the area described.
I told this to my friends. Their response was, of course there's no evidence, God wiped it off the Earth. The evidence is that it's not there. :huh:
Thoughts? I always viewed the Sodom and Gomorrah story as a cautionary tale, a parable, but not an actual occurrence. Like Jonah riding around in a creature's stomach for days, it illustrates a point but isn't a factual/historical account.
I think "Christians" keep forgetting one of the more important laws of religion; Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself!
Ultimately ""Why the hell does a fast food restaurant have a stance on same sex marriage?"
Someone explain this to me?0 -
Patti, Turtle, anyone who cares to respond, I was talking to someone on FB last night, a family friend, who is a Christian. They were trumpeting loudly about having Chick Fil-a for dinner, so proud of themselves. I asked them why the sin of being gay was any different than any other sins, and I asked them if being gay is such a problem, why they don't hold to the other Levitican laws found in the exact same place in the Bible (none of the following are allowed: pork/shellfish/clothing of mixed materials/sowing fields with 2 kinds of seed/rounded haircuts or beards/tattoos/homosexuality)? I also asked him why, if homosexuality was such an abhorrent thing, why isn't it forbidden in the 10 Commandments, or ever mentioned by Jesus?
They took 3 hours to reply. They shrugged off my question about Levitican Law with a joke about bacon (her-de-har, nobody takes that seriously anymore, those laws were made up for the time period and culture they existed in), and they pointed to Sodom and Gomorrah. I didn't tell them that Jewish people and Muslim people still take the pork/shellfish thing very seriously.
I started doing a bit of googling, and among most archaeologists, the general belief seems to be Sodom and Gomorrah never actually existed outside of Biblical lore. They find no evidence of its existence, no remnants of it at all in the area described.
I told this to my friends. Their response was, of course there's no evidence, God wiped it off the Earth. The evidence is that it's not there. :huh:
Thoughts? I always viewed the Sodom and Gomorrah story as a cautionary tale, a parable, but not an actual occurrence. Like Jonah riding around in a creature's stomach for days, it illustrates a point but isn't a factual/historical account.
I think "Christians" keep forgetting one of the more important laws of religion; Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself!
Ultimately ""Why the hell does a fast food restaurant have a stance on same sex marriage?"
Someone explain this to me?
I don't understand why any place of business has a stance on it... Whether it's JC Penney or Chik-Fil-A.0 -
I can't remember the names and don't have the time right now to look it up, but archeologists have linked the ruins of a couple cities who are canidates to be Sodom and Gomorrah.0
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Patti, Turtle, anyone who cares to respond, I was talking to someone on FB last night, a family friend, who is a Christian. They were trumpeting loudly about having Chick Fil-a for dinner, so proud of themselves. I asked them why the sin of being gay was any different than any other sins, and I asked them if being gay is such a problem, why they don't hold to the other Levitican laws found in the exact same place in the Bible (none of the following are allowed: pork/shellfish/clothing of mixed materials/sowing fields with 2 kinds of seed/rounded haircuts or beards/tattoos/homosexuality)? I also asked him why, if homosexuality was such an abhorrent thing, why isn't it forbidden in the 10 Commandments, or ever mentioned by Jesus?
They took 3 hours to reply. They shrugged off my question about Levitican Law with a joke about bacon (her-de-har, nobody takes that seriously anymore, those laws were made up for the time period and culture they existed in), and they pointed to Sodom and Gomorrah. I didn't tell them that Jewish people and Muslim people still take the pork/shellfish thing very seriously.
I started doing a bit of googling, and among most archaeologists, the general belief seems to be Sodom and Gomorrah never actually existed outside of Biblical lore. They find no evidence of its existence, no remnants of it at all in the area described.
I told this to my friends. Their response was, of course there's no evidence, God wiped it off the Earth. The evidence is that it's not there. :huh:
Thoughts? I always viewed the Sodom and Gomorrah story as a cautionary tale, a parable, but not an actual occurrence. Like Jonah riding around in a creature's stomach for days, it illustrates a point but isn't a factual/historical account.
1. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was being inhospitable to guests.
2. http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/leviticus-homosexuality
The second was interesting read to me. It does not address any NT passages regarding homosexuality. Of course using the word, "homosexuality" is a little disingenuous because the term wasn't invented until relatively recently and encompasses a cultural context that didn't exist thousands of years ago, but we use the words we have.0 -
I can't remember the names and don't have the time right now to look it up, but archeologists have linked the ruins of a couple cities who are canidates to be Sodom and Gomorrah.
I vaguely remember this in the news... I'm just too lazy to look it up.0 -
I think "Christians" keep forgetting one of the more important laws of religion; Thou Shalt Love Thy Neighbor as Thyself!
Ultimately ""Why the hell does a fast food restaurant have a stance on same sex marriage?"
Someone explain this to me?
Oh I'm with you! And, let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
I think that the owner is a douche, not only because he gives money to hate-promoting organizations, but because he should have realized how polarizing his commentary would be, and how likely it was to create a kerfuffle. I think it was fiscally irresponsible to his franchise owners to open his trap.0 -
1. The sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was being inhospitable to guests.
I'm totally ignorant about this, can you tell me more?
The person I spoke to last night claimed, as I was taught in Christian private school, that we get the word sodomy from Sodom, and that it was their unrepentant sexual deviancy that led to God's wrath. Even as a child, I doubted that story was "real" and thought of it more as a parable.0 -
Patti, Turtle, anyone who cares to respond
Concerning your first question, Old Testament laws fall in several categories. There are “moral” laws that define proper relationships between persons. There are “ceremonial and sacrificial” laws that describe the religious ceremonies and forms of worship that the ancient Jews were to follow. There are “civil” laws that prescribe how people were to relate to one another in a community/city situation. From a Christian standpoint (and even Jewish), some of these laws are simply not applicable today. For instance, Christians don’t sacrifice animals because we believe they had a temporary purpose and pointed to the supreme sacrifice of Jesus (abolishing the need for any further sacrifice). The “civil” laws pertained primarily to primitive agrarian-based economies and may or may not apply to contemporary settings (there are certainly principles that can be gleaned from them). The “moral” laws are the ones that are summarized in the 10 commandments and, most Christians believe, these laws are meaningful and applicable in every time and place. That assumes, of course, that we properly understand these laws in their original context in order to properly apply them. The instructions regarding homosexual activity would fall under the commands specifying proper sexual activity and these should be taken as applicable to all historical periods.
Why didn’t Jesus mention homosexuality if it is wrong? Well, first this is an argument from silence. Reading the Gospels, Jesus simply was not in the habit of listing things that are wrong. By the same token, Jesus did not deny the validity of the Old Testament teaching on homosexual acts (and therefore the argument from silence cuts both ways, if you choose to use it). Furthermore, the argument from silence “proves” too much. If Jesus didn’t mention pedophilia or rape, for instance, it would be wrong to infer that he didn’t think such things were bad. But, Jesus did speak negatively of “unchastity and adultery” (Mark 7:21-23). “Unchastity” is a broad word for sexual sins and most certainly would have included, for those listening to Jesus, homosexual acts.
Concerning the 10 Commandments, “adultery” is included which is a broad category prescribing faithfulness to the marriage bond and, implicitly, the rejection of sexual acts outside of that bond. This would include homosexual acts (since, of course, the Bible everywhere assumes marriage requires a man and woman). The 10 Commandments are not designed to specify every way that one can do something that is wrong. It is a list of general categories of human experience and the proper orientation one should have to living out those various aspects of our experience.
Based on the description of the location of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Bible, the cities would have been at the southern end of the Dead Sea. There have be claims by archaeologists of discovering evidence of these cities but I know there is no consensus. Some think the cities were beneath the current levels of the sea and that the changes over four thousand years (not uncommon in that region) have made the evidence unavailable. In any case, one should not make a decision about the historicity of an event based solely on archaeology since only a fraction of the past has left any physical remains.
Concerning Jonah, that may well be a “parable.” There are reasons to support that interpretation within the text of Jonah’s book. The problem with Sodom and Gomorrah is that the literary genre of Genesis 12-50 appears to be historical narrative and therefore the author intended the story to be an account of real events and not merely a story to teach a lesson.0
