Chick-Fila
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. Also good to know.False, yet again. You're trying to get me into a heated debate that paints me out to be a homophobe, which is crazy.Oh you're doing fine without my help.I am? Maybe I'm missing said heated debate.
I meant the homophobe part.0 -
How have you drawn this conclusion, may I ask? A homophobe is someone who hates and fears homosexuals, no? Not sure how in the world you got that impression of my.I meant the homophobe part.0 -
So you just compared homosexuality with zoophilia. Ok, good to know where you stand on this issue.NO, I didn't!!! I was giving you other examples of things that would be considered intristically morally evil. And, what I gave you was the definition, not any of my personal feelings. Nice try, though.Uh huh
And you cannot deny that the use of that example was intentionally infammatory and hearkens to the "slippery slope" argument against allowing gay marriage. It also makes a moral equivalency between a man f*cking a man and a man f*cking a sheep. I'm shocked you didn't include pedophilia in your parade of cliches.You really can't go back and read my explanation without seeing that I was giving other examples? And how do you know anything about my personal feelings?0 -
I meant the homophobe part.How have you drawn this conclusion, may I ask?
See the above answer. Your own words.0 -
I meant the homophobe part.How have you drawn this conclusion, may I ask?See the above answer. Your own words.
You mean the answer I gave which was a definition of a phrase you asked about? Haven't I already stated that this is the technical definition of it?0 -
I meant the homophobe part.How have you drawn this conclusion, may I ask?See the above answer. Your own words.
The examples that you used were your choice and reveal your nature whether you realize it or not.You mean the answer I gave which was a definition of a phrase you asked about? Haven't I already stated that this is the technical definition of it?0 -
Now if we compare this to chains of Wendy's restaurants in NC that put up signs saying "we stand with Chick-fil-a", it's slightly different.
For starters, at that point it really just a free speech issue. To the best of my knowledge, Wendy's doesn't donate corporate funds to anti-gay organizations. Second, Wendy's corporate was less than pleased at the action and told the owner to remove the signs from his various locations. For that reason, I suppose one could boycott or protest certain locations, but couldn't really hold the entire chain accountable.
As to other related issues, I'm flatly against civic institutions, who have no power of discretion, telling CFA that they won't be able to come to their city/state/wherever (the ACLU came to CFA's defense on this, btw). That *is* a violation of the first amendment.
Now, universities are a different story. They uphold their set of values even if they are publicly funded and they have the power to contract with whomever they like for services for whatever reason the feel suites the mission of the university best. By contrast, a city isn't contracting for any sort of services if someone wants to put a CFA on a street corner. If I don't like the government extending its power to prevent a porn shop from moving into a strip mall, than I can't very well approve it doing the same for a CFA.0 -
The examples that you used were your choice and reveal your nature whether you realize it or not.
I wasn’t intending to compare anything in my last remarks. I was only responding to the question of what does the phrase, “intrinsic moral evil” mean. I was trying to use obvious examples that we wouldn’t disagree about in order to illustrate intrinsic disorder. I presume that you would say that “zoophilia” is morally disordered because of its distance from the “natural” or biological purpose of human sexuality (at least I hope you would agree with that). If you say that the biology or natural meaning of human sexual acts is unimportant in the moral evaluation of such acts, I’m not sure what barrier you will be able to place between people committing other, more distant, acts. I guess my point is: What is it that makes a sexual act “immoral”? If you say that all that matters is the “feelings” or desires of the person, I’m not sure how you can avoid all kinds of other possibilities (zoophilia, polygamy, etc.).0 -
The examples that you used were your choice and reveal your nature whether you realize it or not.
I have explained my intended meaning. I assume your sincerity and honesty in your communication with me so I would ask that you give me the same courtesy.0 -
The examples that you used were your choice and reveal your nature whether you realize it or not.
So your defense is that you are ingorant and obvious as opposed to hateful?I have explained my intended meaning. I assume your sincerity and honesty in your communication with me so I would ask that you give me the same courtesy.0 -
The examples that you used were your choice and reveal your nature whether you realize it or not.
Here, have a shovel. It'll be easier.I wasn’t intending to compare anything in my last remarks. I was only responding to the question of what does the phrase, “intrinsic moral evil” mean. I was trying to use obvious examples that we wouldn’t disagree about in order to illustrate intrinsic disorder. I presume that you would say that “zoophilia” is morally disordered because of its distance from the “natural” or biological purpose of human sexuality (at least I hope you would agree with that). If you say that the biology or natural meaning of human sexual acts is unimportant in the moral evaluation of such acts, I’m not sure what barrier you will be able to place between people committing other, more distant, acts. I guess my point is: What is it that makes a sexual act “immoral”? If you say that all that matters is the “feelings” or desires of the person, I’m not sure how you can avoid all kinds of other possibilities (zoophilia, polygamy, etc.).0 -
I don't even understand the point you're trying to make. I don't hate anyone. I actually hate the actions of people who promote hatred, and that is why I've said I have an issue with Chic Fil A and Westboro Baptist Church.So your defense is that you are ingorant and obvious as opposed to hateful?0 -
Here, have a shovel. It'll be easier.
Okay, so you tell me. What sexual acts do you find morally wrong and why? Let's go there.0 -
And, again, you're confusing the views of the Church as Patti's personal views. It would be great if you'd not do that, as I've already stated I don't share all the same views. You wan't to debate with the Pope, go ahead.Here, have a shovel. It'll be easier.0 -
Here, have a shovel. It'll be easier.
It's not about me, babe. You're the one calling gays cat f*ckers. I'm just saying quit pretending that you're any different than the purveyors of hatred that run your religion.Okay, so you tell me. What sexual acts do you find morally wrong and why? Let's go there.0 -
It's not about me, babe. You're the one calling gays cat f*ckers. I'm just saying quit pretending that you're any different than the purveyors of hatred that run your religion.
I never said that, and I think you know that. You don't know anything about my personal life, and your comments only prove that. But, I like how you avoided my question. Your language exudes class, which does say a lot about you, by the way.0 -
I think some people need to keep in mind that just because someone is Catholic, does not mean they agree 100% with all of the Church's teachings. I know tons of Catholics who have had pre-marital sex, are on birth control, don't go to church every Sunday, etc. Does that make us "bad" Catholics? No. That makes us humans. Be careful of thinking that all Catholics preach what comes out of the Pope's mouth.
And, when I'm asked for a definition or an explanation of something in the bible or that is taught by the Church, I'm giving the Church's position on it. NOT Patti's personal view.
Which begs my question, what's the point of being Catholic versus other some other form of Christianity if one disagrees with the Vatican on a certain % of issues. At point do you look at that percentage and say, "Ya know, those Lutherans do some funky things with their chapels, and we seem to agree on a lot stuff..."
Maybe I can answer as I was raise as a Lutheran, attended Lutheran school and church for nearly 12 years of my life. I think with the different denominations, though all having the same general beliefs, they greatly differ on how they interpret scripture. Even with Lutherans, there are different 'synods' with different beliefs. We took first communion in 8th grade, my cousin's Lutheran church does it in 3rd grade... Some churches are open and tolerant to divorce, gays and some will excommunicate you if you divorce, even in the case of abuse or infidelity.
With any denomination of Christianity, It really just come down to the particular church and congregation as to what is preached.0 -
With any denomination of Christianity, It really just come down to the particular church and congregation as to what is preached.
True. I have 3 sisters and we were all raised Catholic. Two of us are still Catholic, but one is Methodist and the other Lutheran. I think it's where you feel comfortable.0 -
It's not about me, babe. You're the one calling gays cat f*ckers. I'm just saying quit pretending that you're any different than the purveyors of hatred that run your religion.
I made my point. It's not about me because I'm not the one with the hatred issues and the sexual hang-ups. Also, I happen to f*cking love the sound of the word *kitten*. i say it a lot. f*ckity, *kitten*, *kitten*. I type it so I can hear it in my head. Your reaction to it says more about you than my use of it does me. I know enough about you by the choice of examples you used.I never said that, and I think you know that. You don't know anything about my personal life, and your comments only prove that. But, I like how you avoided my question. Your language exudes class, which does say a lot about you, by the way.0 -
I made my point. It's not about me because I'm not the one with the hatred issues and the sexual hang-ups. Also, I happen to f*cking love the sound of the word *kitten*. i say it a lot. f*ckity, *kitten*, *kitten*. I type it so I can hear it in my head. Your reaction to it says more about you than my use of it does me. I know enough about you by the choice of examples you used.
Who is the one with hatred issues and sexual hang-ups? You just can't address the question I posed to you, huh? You're not willing to state what sexual acts you find morally wrong and why. Why not?
And here is my comment again for your re-reading pleasure:
"An “intrinsic moral evil” is an act that is morally flawed by its very nature. In other word, it is an action that cannot conceivably be “right” in any context. For instance, it is wrong to blaspheme God. It is inherently “disordered” or morally evil to curse God. It is intrinsically wrong to “marry” a dog or a cat. That phrase certainly does not mean that human nature is evil as such but that certain actions, that humans can commit, are inherently disordered or “distorted” and therefore cannot be approved as morally acceptable. This does not mean that people who have sinned like this shouldn't receive absolution, love, and to be treated with human dignity".
If you can tell me where I called homosexuals cat fuc$ers, I'd appreciate it. I never even used the example of sex. I said one cannot marry a dog or a cat. So, it appears you have more sexual hang ups than I do. And again, I used that example because it is something I thought you'd agree on. Perhaps you're all for marrying your dog and that's what's got you so upset.0
