Chick-Fila
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Whoooah! (4 pages later!)
Chick-Fil-A is definitely a franchise - low buy in ($5k) with an apparently enormous percentage of sales and a more modest percentage of net profits going right back to Chick-Fil-A.
The whole point here is that if I'm going to spend my money on something where I can make a choice, I am going to choose not to spend it on a company that takes its profits, puts it toward a charitable arm, and disseminates it to organizations that creep me out or have an agenda against my personal life.
For the person who was saying "pick your battles" - I don't know about anyone else, but I *try* to make educated purchases and if I LEARN about something creepy like this, research it, and find it to be true, then hell yeah I'm going to make sure I don't spend my money there AND spread the information.
I think folks are having a difficult time reconciling "boycotting" with not patronizing an establishment + spreading the word :ohwell:0 -
I love the drama. One man says what he thinks personally and now EVERY christian is a homophobe. Because one view isn't agreed upon, the other side is a bigot. No one is kicking people out of restaurants, or denying them service. I don't see the hate. I don't see anyone trying to force their ideals upon people. The West Boro Baptists, those freaks are bigots. Every organization will have it's "extremists". Here's what I find hypocritical. Some people, who have their view as traditional, are deemed homophopic by association, even after the fact that they have said otherwise. The tradionalists are being being told "don't judge us", but yet are being judged themselves. In the end, who are the stone throwers? If everyone would have ignored that Cathy guy, would this have been really a big deal?
Do you know what places funded by Exodus International (which was funded in whatever fraction by CFA) actually do?
For the record, judge me. I'm a big boy. I can take it. Force gay teenagers into conversion camps that use mind bending guilt and aversion therapy? Nope, that you don't get to do. Judging is fine, but funding political initiatives that want to make me a second class citizen is, in fact, forcing someone else's values on me.
Yeah, I read it. And as someone already said, it was a pin drop compared to what everyone else gave. I give my pin drops when I go to a Six Flags theme park, shop at certain stores, bank at certain institutions, go to Disney (which I'm taking the family the Dec, whoop) to the LGBT community when I go to those places. Me going to those places doesn't mean I am gay or support gays just like eating at a chicken fast food joint doesn't mean that hate gays and so forth. But I wonder where the "forced" part comes in. Are they told to go at gun point? Hold family members ransom? EvanKeel, I'm going to judge you right now. You are an intellegent desk jockey who always enjoys a good debate. I think my bear neighbors would dig you very much. Might make you their chub. If I were a drinker, I would share a pitcher or two with you to discuss other things. :drinker:0 -
Yeah, I read it. And as someone already said, it was a pin drop compared to what everyone else gave. I give my pin drops when I go to a Six Flags theme park, shop at certain stores, bank at certain institutions, go to Disney (which I'm taking the family the Dec, whoop) to the LGBT community when I go to those places. Me going to those places doesn't mean I am gay or support gays just like eating at a chicken fast food joint doesn't mean that hate gays and so forth. But I wonder where the "forced" part comes in. Are they told to go at gun point? Hold family members ransom? EvanKeel, I'm going to judge you right now. You are an intellegent desk jockey who always enjoys a good debate. I think my bear neighbors would dig you very much. Might make you their chub. If I were a drinker, I would share a pitcher or two with you to discuss other things. :drinker:
1) I'm taken. I'm in one of those monogamous bear relationships that seems to be about as rare as unicorns.
2) It's a cub..not chub. I'm not that heavy..am I...crap..I lost 60lbs dmanit!, but I'm flattered you think I qualify as a cub.
3) If you support businesses that financially support certain ideas, then your business with them is in turn supporting those ideas. Your support doesn't have to explicit.
As far as forced goes, they're forced in the same way that any teenager is forced to do anything by their parents. Go to the camp or ultimately possibly become homeless/ward of the state. No gun is required. Adult men who choose to go are one thing. They have my sympathy but it's their life. Minors are a different story.0 -
Going to be all over the place here so please bear with me.
1. (Sit down Patti) Patti is a classy, compassionate lady. She appreciates businesses that uphold her Christian values but she doesn't just walk the walk. She talks the talk. She has stated several times that while she liked CFA for what she thought it stood for now that she knows the truth she is adamantly opposed to it and will no longer patronize them. She is a true Christian in that she is not about the hatefulness and nastiness but the love, compassion, and respect that would make her God proud.
2. The only sexual acts I find morally wrong are those that are forced, those with a child, those with an animal, and cheating on your spouse. Of all mutually consentual sexual acts the only ones I find morally wrong are adultry. However, I wouldn't vote to make it illegal. Just because I find something morally wrong that only means that I wouldn't do it not that I would demand that someone else doesn't do it. (disclaimer: there are things I do not find morally "wrong" that I wouldn't do either before you guys start to think I'm some sort of S&M freak :laugh: )
3. No one said "Every Christian is a homophobe." But the people who went out of their way to intentionally support a business that contributes to hate groups? They are. Imagine if it comes out that McDonald's supports the KKK. What would you think of people who said "Well I'm going to make it a point to eat at McDonald's tomorrow because I support their right to believe what they want!"? I'd call them racists and cannot imagine that anyone would disagree.
I'm not sure what you mean by "The tradionalists are being being told "don't judge us", but yet are being judged themselves." It sounds like you are saying that the people who oppose gay marriage don't want to be judged. Newsflash - every time they vote or contribute to a cause or organization that fights gay marriage they are judging. What's that saying about "Judge not..."??? Yea.
As for whether or not it would be a big deal if everyone just ignored Cathy - yes it would. Even if everyone ignores it he's still contributing towards hate groups. If no one knows that McDonald's contributes to te KKK is it still a big deal? Of course!!
(Note: to the best of my knowledge McDonald's does not contribute to the KKK or any group that discriminates against anyone. I just used them for analogy purposes.)0 -
Yeah, I read it. And as someone already said, it was a pin drop compared to what everyone else gave. I give my pin drops when I go to a Six Flags theme park, shop at certain stores, bank at certain institutions, go to Disney (which I'm taking the family the Dec, whoop) to the LGBT community when I go to those places. Me going to those places doesn't mean I am gay or support gays just like eating at a chicken fast food joint doesn't mean that hate gays and so forth. But I wonder where the "forced" part comes in. Are they told to go at gun point? Hold family members ransom? EvanKeel, I'm going to judge you right now. You are an intellegent desk jockey who always enjoys a good debate. I think my bear neighbors would dig you very much. Might make you their chub. If I were a drinker, I would share a pitcher or two with you to discuss other things. :drinker:
1) I'm taken. I'm in one of those monogamous bear relationships that seems to be about as rare as unicorns.
2) It's a cub..not chub. I'm not that heavy..am I...crap..I lost 60lbs dmanit!, but I'm flattered you think I qualify as a cub.
3) If you support businesses that financially support certain ideas, then your business with them is in turn supporting those ideas. Your support doesn't have to explicit.
As far as forced goes, they're forced in the same way that any teenager is forced to do anything by their parents. Go to the camp or ultimately possibly become homeless/ward of the state. No gun is required. Adult men who choose to go are one thing. They have my sympathy but it's their life. Minors are a different story.
So if I purchase goods and services from companies that I know support the gay community and also eat a chicken biscuit from CFA I am a dirty anti gay rights bigot? I think issues are black and white only when someone feels very strongly about them.
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I love the drama. One man says what he thinks personally and now EVERY christian is a homophobe. Because one view isn't agreed upon, the other side is a bigot. No one is kicking people out of restaurants, or denying them service. I don't see the hate. I don't see anyone trying to force their ideals upon people. The West Boro Baptists, those freaks are bigots. Every organization will have it's "extremists". Here's what I find hypocritical. Some people, who have their view as traditional, are deemed homophopic by association, even after the fact that they have said otherwise. The tradionalists are being being told "don't judge us", but yet are being judged themselves. In the end, who are the stone throwers? If everyone would have ignored that Cathy guy, would this have been really a big deal?
There was a time when people thought it was ok to tell blacks not to sit in certain places. Just last year a local bakery refused service to a group of gay people who wanted to place an order for an event. How is that different, denying someone service for their skin color or sexual orientation is a violation of civil rights. You don't see the hate> look at any thread on facebook and see comments from "Christians" saying things like "*kitten* need to be imprisoned, deported to Uganda where they will be killed" and many other horrible things. Apparently you are just turning a blind eye to it. Even LGBT websites are being bombarded by hate groups over their "traditional marriage views".
I've heard the argument "if you are against the Christian beliefs, then you are just as intolerant." That's a bunch of crap. It's about denying a group of innocent people basic human treatment because of their sexual orientation. No one is required to tolerate hate.
I don't even understand the Christian argument. If you say "I'm against gay marriage because the bible says it's wrong", then you argument is invalid. The bible says a hell of a lot of other things that I guarantee Christians don't follow.
The bible is not a bag of trail mix, you can't just pick and choose what you want and leave the rest.
I didn't mention religon and I don't know why it's even mentioned. There's plenty of athiest homophobes out there. What do you say to them? As for racism, you're right. And people used the bible to even promote slavery. Hell, even the crusades were used to "promote" Jesus just like Mohammad did when he started Islam. I'll go further, even the bible was telling the Jews to go out and eliminate every person, man, woman, child and even animals, from the Promised Land. That's genocide. Racism exist. It stinks. But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation. Right or wrong? Now as the OP mentioned, there is a plain as day racist running a restaurant company (which I have never heard of), but that's OK it seems that he denies service based on those things mentioned above, and no one is saying anything. Just to throw something into the flame, remember when The Romans where hunting and killing christians for sport and entertainment and it was cheered upon? I definately don't see anyone being forced into that in todays culture. Though I know many wish it.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage? And then what about those of us that really only go because we like their product, not their social stances? If McDonald's contributed to the KKK, I guess I would be thinking the same way... especially if I shopped at Kohl's and they support the NAACP (just to add on the analogy) or LULA or something similar.... for me it's less about the social stance and more about the product and service.
But then again, I personally (which I realize not everyone is this way), am not easily swayed by propoganda of any type... I vote based on my conscience and based on what will give the most people freedom and liberty, regardless of whether I agree or disagree about something. And also, while I do plan on continuing to eat at Chik-fil-a... I didn't go yesterday because I am not into what I consider fad protesting... and I consider yesterday fad or fashionable protesting... the kind of protesting one does just to shove it in anothers face.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage?
It's indirect - a little bit of your money* spent at Chick-Fil-A makes it way to the charity and is given to organizations that actively hate on marriage equality. I don't know if JC Penney gives $$ to pro-equality organizations through a charitable means, but if they did, then yes, indirectly.
*It's something like 50% of sales and 15% of net profits that franchisees pay to Chick-Fil-A, then whatever percentage of that goes toward their charitable entity..0 -
Yeah, I read it. And as someone already said, it was a pin drop compared to what everyone else gave. I give my pin drops when I go to a Six Flags theme park, shop at certain stores, bank at certain institutions, go to Disney (which I'm taking the family the Dec, whoop) to the LGBT community when I go to those places. Me going to those places doesn't mean I am gay or support gays just like eating at a chicken fast food joint doesn't mean that hate gays and so forth. But I wonder where the "forced" part comes in. Are they told to go at gun point? Hold family members ransom? EvanKeel, I'm going to judge you right now. You are an intellegent desk jockey who always enjoys a good debate. I think my bear neighbors would dig you very much. Might make you their chub. If I were a drinker, I would share a pitcher or two with you to discuss other things. :drinker:
1) I'm taken. I'm in one of those monogamous bear relationships that seems to be about as rare as unicorns.
2) It's a cub..not chub. I'm not that heavy..am I...crap..I lost 60lbs dmanit!, but I'm flattered you think I qualify as a cub.
3) If you support businesses that financially support certain ideas, then your business with them is in turn supporting those ideas. Your support doesn't have to explicit.
As far as forced goes, they're forced in the same way that any teenager is forced to do anything by their parents. Go to the camp or ultimately possibly become homeless/ward of the state. No gun is required. Adult men who choose to go are one thing. They have my sympathy but it's their life. Minors are a different story.
So if I purchase goods and services from companies that I know support the gay community and also eat a chicken biscuit from CFA I am a dirty anti gay rights bigot? I think issues are black and white only when someone feels very strongly about them.
If you knowingly support initiatives on both sides, I think the most generous description I can give you is an apathetic supporter of anti-gay rights. I totally believe that people eat there, knowing what they're supporting and just doesn't care. They're still supporting bigotry. If there's a grain of truth to any of the memes going around, it's entirely likely that any of taunting jack *kitten* who posted their bags of fast food probably supported companies who do support lgbt rights. It's not like you take a picture with your phone, and post it to the internet without supporting some company that supports gay rights.
I just don't happen to believe that anyone went to that restaurant yesterday to support the first amendment, regardless of what anyone wants to say about it.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage?
It's indirect - a little bit of your money* spent at Chick-Fil-A makes it way to the charity and is given to organizations that actively hate on marriage equality. I don't know if JC Penney gives $$ to pro-equality organizations through a charitable means, but if they did, then yes, indirectly.
*It's something like 50% of sales and 15% of net profits that franchisees pay to Chick-Fil-A, then whatever percentage of that goes toward their charitable entity..
This. And If I learned that a certain place was sending money to a hateful cause, I would stop patronizing them as well.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage? And then what about those of us that really only go because we like their product, not their social stances? If McDonald's contributed to the KKK, I guess I would be thinking the same way... especially if I shopped at Kohl's and they support the NAACP (just to add on the analogy) or LULA or something similar.... for me it's less about the social stance and more about the product and service.
But then again, I personally (which I realize not everyone is this way), am not easily swayed by propoganda of any type... I vote based on my conscience and based on what will give the most people freedom and liberty, regardless of whether I agree or disagree about something. And also, while I do plan on continuing to eat at Chik-fil-a... I didn't go yesterday because I am not into what I consider fad protesting... and I consider yesterday fad or fashionable protesting... the kind of protesting one does just to shove it in anothers face.
Your money is your voice. Really, legally that's accurate. If you give your money to businesses, they can then use your voice however they want. Your only choice in the matter is how you wish to spend your voice, as it were. If you don't care how they spend your money once you give to them, then you don't care. You can't say that you're not supporting (note I said support, not approve) what they do with the money you gave them, though.0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage?
It's indirect - a little bit of your money* spent at Chick-Fil-A makes it way to the charity and is given to organizations that actively hate on marriage equality. I don't know if JC Penney gives $$ to pro-equality organizations through a charitable means, but if they did, then yes, indirectly.
*It's something like 50% of sales and 15% of net profits that franchisees pay to Chick-Fil-A, then whatever percentage of that goes toward their charitable entity..
I can't seem to find anything concrete on JC Penney as far as donations are concerned... I know they take applications for donations though... and I know though that for Mother's and Father's day, they created a series of commercials featuring two moms and two dads...
And while yes, my money may be my voice... which voice is louder? The one that shops at places like JC Penney (where I can drop over $100 at a time there? Or the one that eats at Chik-fil-a (where I spend maybe $15)? or even better the one that votes? Like I said, regardless of where I shop... or don't... what's going to really matter is how I vote... and I will always vote for liberty and freedom regardless of how one chooses to live your life.... if you want to be a pot smoker, you should be able to... If you want to marry 15 people at the same time.... go for it.... Regardless of what I believe...
So when it comes down to it... I just want the chicken.... :sad:0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
I suspect that if and when being gay is scientifically proven beyond any doubt to be of genetic origin, we will see "gay" added to the list of protected classes. While we still have a segment of the population that believe's it's a choice, I doubt there will be that protection. Stupid.0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
Then I guess I am swimming on both sides as my voice (dollar wise) is supporting both groups. Can I be called neutral then?0 -
Thanks, Bahet!1. (Sit down Patti) Patti is a classy, compassionate lady. She appreciates businesses that uphold her Christian values but she doesn't just walk the walk. She talks the talk. She has stated several times that while she liked CFA for what she thought it stood for now that she knows the truth she is adamantly opposed to it and will no longer patronize them. She is a true Christian in that she is not about the hatefulness and nastiness but the love, compassion, and respect that would make her God proud.0 -
I can't seem to find anything concrete on JC Penney as far as donations are concerned... I know they take applications for donations though... and I know though that for Mother's and Father's day, they created a series of commercials featuring two moms and two dads...
And while yes, my money may be my voice... which voice is louder? The one that shops at places like JC Penney (where I can drop over $100 at a time there? Or the one that eats at Chik-fil-a (where I spend maybe $15)? or even better the one that votes? Like I said, regardless of where I shop... or don't... what's going to really matter is how I vote... and I will always vote for liberty and freedom regardless of how one chooses to live your life.... if you want to be a pot smoker, you should be able to... If you want to marry 15 people at the same time.... go for it.... Regardless of what I believe...
So when it comes down to it... I just want the chicken.... :sad:
I hear ya. I know for me, since I can only speak for myself, it is offensive. It's personal. I know it's not for a lot of people.
Oh, and yeah, the MSG. Headache city!0 -
I agree with this and I've said as much directly to my friends went.I just don't happen to believe that anyone went to that restaurant yesterday to support the first amendment, regardless of what anyone wants to say about it.0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
Then I guess I am swimming on both sides as my voice (dollar wise) is supporting both groups. Can I be called neutral then?
It reminds me of DnD thing. A friend would always call druids, fence sitters. Druids were required to have a neutral alignment...it makes more sense if you've played.
I think it depends. If you spend your money at a place because of their product or service and don't care about what causes they use corporate funds to support, then there we have it. You do care about what you're purchasing/contracting for, and you don't care--or you care to a significantly less extent--about what they do with their money once you give it to them. There are words for people who don't care. In a previous response to someone else, I referred to that kind of supporter as an apathetic support of bigotry. People can talk about the degrees, and how much, etc, but it comes off sounding like rationalization to me.
I think true neutrality is a little different and probably hard to come by.0 -
I can't seem to find anything concrete on JC Penney as far as donations are concerned... I know they take applications for donations though... and I know though that for Mother's and Father's day, they created a series of commercials featuring two moms and two dads...
And while yes, my money may be my voice... which voice is louder? The one that shops at places like JC Penney (where I can drop over $100 at a time there? Or the one that eats at Chik-fil-a (where I spend maybe $15)? or even better the one that votes? Like I said, regardless of where I shop... or don't... what's going to really matter is how I vote... and I will always vote for liberty and freedom regardless of how one chooses to live your life.... if you want to be a pot smoker, you should be able to... If you want to marry 15 people at the same time.... go for it.... Regardless of what I believe...
So when it comes down to it... I just want the chicken.... :sad:
I hear ya. I know for me, since I can only speak for myself, it is offensive. It's personal. I know it's not for a lot of people.
Oh, and yeah, the MSG. Headache city!
And I can appreciate and understand that... I don't begrudge people for feeling the way they do about it all. Because everyone has their reasons and like you said, it's personal.0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
Then I guess I am swimming on both sides as my voice (dollar wise) is supporting both groups. Can I be called neutral then?
It reminds me of DnD thing. A friend would always call druids, fence sitters. Druids were required to have a neutral alignment...it makes more sense if you've played.
I think it depends. If you spend your money at a place because of their product or service and don't care about what causes they use corporate funds to support, then there we have it. You do care about what you're purchasing/contracting for, and you don't care--or you care to a significantly less extent--about what they do with their money once you give it to them. There are words for people who don't care. In a previous response to someone else, I referred to that kind of supporter as an apathetic support of bigotry. People can talk about the degrees, and how much, etc, but it comes off sounding like rationalization to me.
I think true neutrality is a little different and probably hard to come by.
Ok, so you are actually pretty cool. I mean anyone who brings up DnD and admits to playing it, is awesome, haha.0 -
But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
Then I guess I am swimming on both sides as my voice (dollar wise) is supporting both groups. Can I be called neutral then?
It reminds me of DnD thing. A friend would always call druids, fence sitters. Druids were required to have a neutral alignment...it makes more sense if you've played.
I think it depends. If you spend your money at a place because of their product or service and don't care about what causes they use corporate funds to support, then there we have it. You do care about what you're purchasing/contracting for, and you don't care--or you care to a significantly less extent--about what they do with their money once you give it to them. There are words for people who don't care. In a previous response to someone else, I referred to that kind of supporter as an apathetic support of bigotry. People can talk about the degrees, and how much, etc, but it comes off sounding like rationalization to me.
I think true neutrality is a little different and probably hard to come by.
Chaotic Neutral is so much more fun. I always hated druids.0 -
I really don't understand the rational that eating at chik-fil-a is automatically supporting anti-gay marriage or whatnot... So would saying that shopping at JC Penney is supporting pro-gay marriage?
It's indirect - a little bit of your money* spent at Chick-Fil-A makes it way to the charity and is given to organizations that actively hate on marriage equality. I don't know if JC Penney gives $$ to pro-equality organizations through a charitable means, but if they did, then yes, indirectly.
*It's something like 50% of sales and 15% of net profits that franchisees pay to Chick-Fil-A, then whatever percentage of that goes toward their charitable entity..
I can't seem to find anything concrete on JC Penney as far as donations are concerned... I know they take applications for donations though... and I know though that for Mother's and Father's day, they created a series of commercials featuring two moms and two dads...
And while yes, my money may be my voice... which voice is louder? The one that shops at places like JC Penney (where I can drop over $100 at a time there? Or the one that eats at Chik-fil-a (where I spend maybe $15)? or even better the one that votes? Like I said, regardless of where I shop... or don't... what's going to really matter is how I vote... and I will always vote for liberty and freedom regardless of how one chooses to live your life.... if you want to be a pot smoker, you should be able to... If you want to marry 15 people at the same time.... go for it.... Regardless of what I believe...
So when it comes down to it... I just want the chicken.... :sad:
The chicken can't be THAT good......
Now, if it was falafel, that would be a different story. It's really hard to find good falafel where I live.0 -
Ultimately, I think there's a combination of factors that causes this to bother me in a very personal way, and I don't think I've ever even seen a chik-fil-a.
*puts personal response hat on*--this is your cue not to be overly harsh. I thought a warning would be fair.
The original post gave a comparison between a racist restaurant owner and asked why this is such a big deal, presumably because racism is generally considered so much more abhorrent than being against civil rights for lgbts. Looking at the comparison, though, what if he was a racist? What if he made these statements about african americans and gave money to the clan?
I don't think anyone could possibly offer me any rationale or other evidence that would convince me that the same, record shattering number of people would line up to give him their money. I don't think it would be close. I don't think politicians would even suggest it.
This tells me that my previous statement about not buying it when people say they were there to support his first amendment right, is leaning very close to being likely accurate. Instead they were there because they falsely feel like the definition of marriage is somehow being taken from them and they wanted the world to know that they just don't like seeing two people of the same gender together. They have the right to feel that way, state as such, etc, but they don't have a right to pass based on that...that's a different discussion though.
Moving on to the part that I find upsetting for me, and my own reaction surprised me a little if I'm being honest, were the numbers. I remember full well what it was like growing up as a young gay man in the wake of AIDS hysteria and Mathew Shepherd. In a way, the manner in which AIDS was addressed, or not addressed, is something that I wonder if a lot of people can relate to; the message was clear, and it was that mainstream society was content to see people like me wiped out by what they wrongly considered to be a righteous plague.
That was my first introduction to the hate of bigotry, though I don't suppose I fully felt the weight of the impact at the time, but I feel it now. And I feel it when I see images of people standing in line to buy chicken, as silly as it sounds. There were smaller instances on a day-to-day basis. Name calling,etc. When I was younger it didn't happen to me, mind you, but I was exposed to it. And later there were definitely other demonstrations that did involve me. I've been bashed, had rocks thrown at me, clashed with counter protests at parades. It's fairly standard for any gay person, I assume. You learn to deal with it.
Now in terms of just dollar numbers, yesterday wasn't a huge deal. If they wanted, the Koch brothers could bat an eyelash and fund organizations that hate me in ways that I can't imagine. Maybe they do that already. I think more than anything else it was seeing the people lined up that bothered me most. Correction: those weren't people. That was a mandate. That was a mandate for Cathy to continue to do what he got flak for, if not more of it. And you would think that after years of looking at poll numbers showing how millions of people think I should be a second class citizen, seeing one fast food place line people up saying as much, that I shouldn't be bothered. It shouldn't be a surprise.
For whatever reason, images of yesterday struck me in a way that being bashed, being threatened to be curb stomped, etc just can't compete with. I can deal with someone, even a few someone's getting in my face, and I can deal with seeing stats, but actually seeing the tide people take time out of their day to do this...is a thing.
I sincerely don't know if I should break down or use it as righteous motivation of my own. It will probably be one followed by the other.
And for all this talk of biblical definition of marriage, I'd like to see one quote from this jack *kitten* asking that people line up to volunteer at food shelters instead.
*takes hat off*
I think I need a drink just now.0 -
Ultimately, I think there's a combination of factors that causes this to bother me in a very personal way, and I don't think I've ever even seen a chik-fil-a.
*puts personal response hat on*--this is your cue not to be overly harsh. I thought a warning would be fair.
The original post gave a comparison between a racist restaurant owner and asked why this is such a big deal, presumably because racism is generally considered so much more abhorrent than being against civil rights for lgbts. Looking at the comparison, though, what if he was a racist? What if he made these statements about african americans and gave money to the clan?
I don't think anyone could possibly offer me any rationale or other evidence that would convince me that the same, record shattering number of people would line up to give him their money. I don't think it would be close. I don't think politicians would even suggest it.
This tells me that my previous statement about not buying it when people say they were there to support his first amendment right, is leaning very close to being likely accurate. Instead they were there because they falsely feel like the definition of marriage is somehow being taken from them and they wanted the world to know that they just don't like seeing two people of the same gender together. They have the right to feel that way, state as such, etc, but they don't have a right to pass based on that...that's a different discussion though.
Moving on to the part that I find upsetting for me, and my own reaction surprised me a little if I'm being honest, were the numbers. I remember full well what it was like growing up as a young gay man in the wake of AIDS hysteria and Mathew Shepherd. In a way, the manner in which AIDS was addressed, or not addressed, is something that I wonder if a lot of people can relate to; the message was clear, and it was that mainstream society was content to see people like me wiped out by what they wrongly considered to be a righteous plague.
That was my first introduction to the hate of bigotry, though I don't suppose I fully felt the weight of the impact at the time, but I feel it now. And I feel it when I see images of people standing in line to buy chicken, as silly as it sounds. There were smaller instances on a day-to-day basis. Name calling,etc. When I was younger it didn't happen to me, mind you, but I was exposed to it. And later there were definitely other demonstrations that did involve me. I've been bashed, had rocks thrown at me, clashed with counter protests at parades. It's fairly standard for any gay person, I assume. You learn to deal with it.
Now in terms of just dollar numbers, yesterday wasn't a huge deal. If they wanted, the Koch brothers could bat an eyelash and fund organizations that hate me in ways that I can't imagine. Maybe they do that already. I think more than anything else it was seeing the people lined up that bothered me most. Correction: those weren't people. That was a mandate. That was a mandate for Cathy to continue to do what he got flak for, if not more of it. And you would think that after years of looking at poll numbers showing how millions of people think I should be a second class citizen, seeing one fast food place line people up saying as much, that I shouldn't be bothered. It shouldn't be a surprise.
For whatever reason, images of yesterday struck me in a way that being bashed, being threatened to be curb stomped, etc just can't compete with. I can deal with someone, even a few someone's getting in my face, and I can deal with seeing stats, but actually seeing the tide people take time out of their day to do this...is a thing.
I sincerely don't know if I should break down or use it as righteous motivation of my own. It will probably be one followed by the other.
And for all this talk of biblical definition of marriage, I'd like to see one quote from this jack *kitten* asking that people line up to volunteer at food shelters instead.
*takes hat off*
I think I need a drink just now.
I've been following the chick fil a debates closely. And wow, just wow. That was probably hard to write but it was very moving for me. *hugs*0 -
Evan- thank you for that thoughtful post. I do not consider you a second class citizen, nor do I consider myself morally superior to you. You and I are equals in this life as humans, in my eyes. I hope you know I mean that sincerely.0
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But I didn't see anyone being denied service based on skin, nationality, creed or sexual orientation.
The fact that you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In about half the states in this country you can legally be fired from your job for just being gay. The kind of bigotry this company supports just feeds into that.
Then I guess I am swimming on both sides as my voice (dollar wise) is supporting both groups. Can I be called neutral then?
It reminds me of DnD thing. A friend would always call druids, fence sitters. Druids were required to have a neutral alignment...it makes more sense if you've played.
I think it depends. If you spend your money at a place because of their product or service and don't care about what causes they use corporate funds to support, then there we have it. You do care about what you're purchasing/contracting for, and you don't care--or you care to a significantly less extent--about what they do with their money once you give it to them. There are words for people who don't care. In a previous response to someone else, I referred to that kind of supporter as an apathetic support of bigotry. People can talk about the degrees, and how much, etc, but it comes off sounding like rationalization to me.
I think true neutrality is a little different and probably hard to come by.
LMAO!!!!! That's exactly what I was when I played DnD. A neutral druid name "Allister." I used to have the hardcore bible thumpers (extremists IMO) say it was a demonic game. I've been alright ever since (to my standards I guess.) Anyway, in part, I wish everyone did get along. It's what Jesus wanted (prove me otherwise). It's what Ghandi wanted.0 -
Ultimately, I think there's a combination of factors that causes this to bother me in a very personal way, and I don't think I've ever even seen a chik-fil-a.
*puts personal response hat on*--this is your cue not to be overly harsh. I thought a warning would be fair.
The original post gave a comparison between a racist restaurant owner and asked why this is such a big deal, presumably because racism is generally considered so much more abhorrent than being against civil rights for lgbts. Looking at the comparison, though, what if he was a racist? What if he made these statements about african americans and gave money to the clan?
I don't think anyone could possibly offer me any rationale or other evidence that would convince me that the same, record shattering number of people would line up to give him their money. I don't think it would be close. I don't think politicians would even suggest it.
This tells me that my previous statement about not buying it when people say they were there to support his first amendment right, is leaning very close to being likely accurate. Instead they were there because they falsely feel like the definition of marriage is somehow being taken from them and they wanted the world to know that they just don't like seeing two people of the same gender together. They have the right to feel that way, state as such, etc, but they don't have a right to pass based on that...that's a different discussion though.
Moving on to the part that I find upsetting for me, and my own reaction surprised me a little if I'm being honest, were the numbers. I remember full well what it was like growing up as a young gay man in the wake of AIDS hysteria and Mathew Shepherd. In a way, the manner in which AIDS was addressed, or not addressed, is something that I wonder if a lot of people can relate to; the message was clear, and it was that mainstream society was content to see people like me wiped out by what they wrongly considered to be a righteous plague.
That was my first introduction to the hate of bigotry, though I don't suppose I fully felt the weight of the impact at the time, but I feel it now. And I feel it when I see images of people standing in line to buy chicken, as silly as it sounds. There were smaller instances on a day-to-day basis. Name calling,etc. When I was younger it didn't happen to me, mind you, but I was exposed to it. And later there were definitely other demonstrations that did involve me. I've been bashed, had rocks thrown at me, clashed with counter protests at parades. It's fairly standard for any gay person, I assume. You learn to deal with it.
Now in terms of just dollar numbers, yesterday wasn't a huge deal. If they wanted, the Koch brothers could bat an eyelash and fund organizations that hate me in ways that I can't imagine. Maybe they do that already. I think more than anything else it was seeing the people lined up that bothered me most. Correction: those weren't people. That was a mandate. That was a mandate for Cathy to continue to do what he got flak for, if not more of it. And you would think that after years of looking at poll numbers showing how millions of people think I should be a second class citizen, seeing one fast food place line people up saying as much, that I shouldn't be bothered. It shouldn't be a surprise.
For whatever reason, images of yesterday struck me in a way that being bashed, being threatened to be curb stomped, etc just can't compete with. I can deal with someone, even a few someone's getting in my face, and I can deal with seeing stats, but actually seeing the tide people take time out of their day to do this...is a thing.
I sincerely don't know if I should break down or use it as righteous motivation of my own. It will probably be one followed by the other.
And for all this talk of biblical definition of marriage, I'd like to see one quote from this jack *kitten* asking that people line up to volunteer at food shelters instead.
*takes hat off*
I think I need a drink just now.
I've been following the chick fil a debates closely. And wow, just wow. That was probably hard to write but it was very moving for me. *hugs*
Yeah. I don't consider anyone from the LG community a second class citizen. That's not the "druid" way. In all seriousness, I have never had a problem with it as I have said. Extremists from one said will call me a bigot for doing something, while the other side says I'm not committed. That's why I don't follow religion. But I also don't bash it. I have a gay niece, sister, countless friends and co-workers who know my views and the respect it as I have respected them. I wore my pink shirt and tie on "Diversity Day." My point is, not all christians are hate mongerers. Some do follow the golden rule. I like to think I do. I dno't force my views on anyone. But I will share them when asked. Every democrat doesn't agree with Obama. Every republican doesn't watch Fox news. I say we do like Bob Marley says and "Get together and feel alright." Evan, you specifically get a +1 for the DnD reference.0 -
In what should have been predicted: the counter move to show support through consumerism: www.isupportmarriageequality.com
Are they doing it just to increase some revenues? Maybe. Do I enjoy chi tea lattes and lemon pound cake? yes.0 -
But, of course!In what should have been predicted: the counter move to show support through consumerism: www.isupportmarriageequality.com0
