What Does a Good First Date Look Like?
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I have heard this too. I'm not one of those women. All women are not the same. We don't have a hive mind and think identically. Many women also pay attention to your car. All I care about is that it's clean if I have to sit in it and I don't have to brush off crumbs or something worse before sitting down (although that would be on a later date, not the first one if I've never met the guy before).All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.0 -
All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??0 -
I think the gold-digging type of women that no men seem to want to attract would do this.All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??0 -
I think the gold-digging type of women that no men seem to want to attract would do this.All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??
Some men use money to flirt. Many 40 something men chasing 20 something women show off their more advanced careers and higher incomes relative to 20 something men to attract the women they desire.0 -
What does a good first date look like to you? Here's what it looks like to me. I thought about some of the common themes of good, very good and excellent first dates I've had over the years.
1. Pre-selection: This matters most. It is a hard art to master. Who you pick to actually be spending an extended amount of time with you is vital. I think it is ideal to know that the second you start that date, you're going to have enough to talk about and that you're going to have easy interactions. Good pre-selection makes the later items on this list much easier.
2. Showing up on time. This is something that is easy, but many people fail in this task. I feel that punctuality reduces uncertainty and anxiety.
3. Presentation: Appearance counts. For me, most women pass this. Doesn't always happen. One woman I went out with once had really greasy hair and looked tired. I think that men have a higher threshold in their appearance. We've gotta wear great shoes (particularly for an indoorsy, non athletic date), smell nice, etc.
4. Ambiance: Very dependent upon the activity chosen, but there should be some perceived pleasantry in the environment. A stimuli of the sense. Lighting can be that stimuli. Nature is another good one.
5. Spatial relations: This is what I am fanatical about. I like close proximity. Close proximity brings closeness in interactions. Close proximity allows for physical contact. Physical contact sets up a kiss. A kiss won't happen unless there's some preceding physical contact. What is best is when a woman finds a way to touch me. A nice touch on the arm. These touches should precede a hand hold, which precedes a kiss. Infants learn to walk before they learn to run. That's what this is all about. So whatever is done, close proximity is important.
6. The Conversation: Just needs to have ease of interaction. Laughter is always good.
7. The Kiss: This is the moment of truth. Were items 1-6 done correctly? If items 1-6 were done correctly, there should be a kiss that says that there's mutual attraction and both sides want more.
For once, I agree with everything you just said. :noway:0 -
Some men use money to flirt. Many 40 something men chasing 20 something women show off their more advanced careers and higher incomes relative to 20 something men to attract the women they desire.
Yeah, I guess some do.
On the other hand, what's wrong with wearing good quality shoes? Why would you compliment a nice suit with a pair of ordinary, unimaginative shoes, with little style or character? It's like enjoying a fine Cabernet Sauvignon with a Big Mac and fries.
There is also something to be said about respecting the craftsmanship that goes into a good pair of shoes. Just like a nice watch. Or a well made tie.
Also, if you know what you're doing, you don't have to pay a fortune for good quality shoes. But it takes a bit of effort. Something that some people believe is worthwhile.
I'm not wearing nice shoes primarily for her, anyway, I'm wearing them for me. I never assume (or care) that a woman knows anything about men's shoes. Or watches. Or ties. Certainly not how much they cost.
But yes, I do like to look nice when I go out, and shoes are an important part of the wardrobe. Dressing nicely is also a sign of respect for the woman. You are signaling that you have style. Not necessarily that you have money.
As an aside, I was at dinner tonight with a very senior exec who was wearing an incredibly tacky Rolex watch. It had a gold/silver two-toned band, which I think looks ridiculous on any watch. Even a Rolex itself is a very poor choice in high end watches. For the same amount of money you can wear a nice Jaeger-LeCoultre, or a higher end IWC. The difference is that almost nobody will know that those are better crafted, better engineered watches, except the person wearing it. So you're not wearing an IWC Ingenieur to impress a woman, you're doing it because it's an incredible piece of engineering, probably only 6000 of that model in existence worldwide, with a revolutionary movement, that looks great with both a suit and a casual shirt and jeans. A watch that will last a lifetime, and can be passed on to your son. But 99.9999% of the people who see it will not even know or appreciate it. Which makes it all the more sweet.
--P0 -
A lot of thought went into that list indeed. Personally, I think numbers 1 & 6 are most important because the rest will figure itself out if you're on the date with someone you are comfortable with.
I'm not a fan of this entitled thinking...the guy spent a few bucks so at minimum the woman needs to put out with a kiss (if not more)? Am I reading that correctly?If you are interested in the guy, a small kiss on the lips after he bought your drinks and dinner won't kill you.
I see where you are coming from and why you read it that way
I am not opposed to kissing on the first date but the guy I am seeing didn't kiss me until our third date and that was ok too because the kisses remain amazing now and I could feel the chemistry kissing aside.0 -
I just passed date #3 last night and still no kiss... but I'm just now starting to really like this guy. :bigsmile:There are a number of different ways to gauge attraction levels prior to going in for the kiss. I look for these signals. If I don't get the signals, I don't go in for the kiss because it is very hard to recover from a failed kiss attempt.
I have noticed as well that if there is a no kiss first date, even if I offer a 2nd, the 2nd date is more often than not turned down.
A good kiss is a strong indicator that she wants more.
Keep me posted on this one. I don't think I've ever waiting until date #4 for the first kiss. It sounds like he's really, really into you if he's willing to wait this long.
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me.
:bigsmile: 0 -
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me. :bigsmile:
Good stuff Mellie. I like the idea of starting a date with a kiss.
I like how it sets a tone.
Yes, I don't quite understand the whole pot luck at a friend's house, movies and separate car thing. That type of social event seems more like an established couple thing, not a 4th date, getting to you know phase kind of thing. Don't you two have to determine you are an actual couple before the friends are involved? The sequencing doesn't add up from an outsider's perspective but perhaps you know something I don't.
Nonetheless, glad things are making you smile. :bigsmile:0 -
Shoes... I look at these. If you don't care enough to wear your nicer shoes (whether they're sneakers, or dressier), then you didn't put much thought or effort in my opinion. I understand I'm a woman and it's different for me, but I take the time to do my hair, make up, shave my legs, pick the outfit, etc for YOU. If you don't care that much about impressing me by your appearance because afterall, this will be the 1st impression I get (and I don't care if they're $20 nice shoes or $200), than you're mostly not the guy for me in the long run.
I want someone who cares about their appearance.
And greeting with a kiss would be awesome if it were a guy I was crushing on and he finally asked me out. I saw this on a movie once. But if it's an online date, hellz no... Although I do greet all my dates with a hug.0 -
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me. :bigsmile:
Good stuff Mellie. I like the idea of starting a date with a kiss. I like how it sets a tone.
Yes, I don't quite understand the whole pot luck at a friend's house, movies and separate car thing. That type of social event seems more like an established couple thing, not a 4th date, getting to you know phase kind of thing. Don't you two have to determine you are an actual couple before the friends are involved? The sequencing doesn't add up from an outsider's perspective but perhaps you know something I don't.
Nonetheless, glad things are making you smile. :bigsmile:
Yay Mellie! Glad you sound so happy! Keep us posted.
DM, you're too worried about 'rules' dictating what should and shouldn't happen on dates...what's wrong with letting life happen naturally? Personally I think the fact that they sound really into one another means that they can do anything with anyone and it would be fine. It's when you're not into each other that those situations become awkward.0 -
I agree that was kind of a weird thing for a 4th date! LOL! This is definitely a case of letting life happen as Pa_jorg said.Yes, I don't quite understand the whole pot luck at a friend's house, movies and separate car thing. That type of social event seems more like an established couple thing, not a 4th date, getting to you know phase kind of thing. Don't you two have to determine you are an actual couple before the friends are involved? The sequencing doesn't add up from an outsider's perspective but perhaps you know something I don't.
This night was something that had been planned from before I met him, so that's what my Saturday was going to be. He had to travel for work this past week and he's leaving again today, so that was the only time we could see each other, otherwise it would have been an extra week since our last date. He wanted to go so he could see me this weekend. The separate car deal was because he thought he would have to leave early to get home to give his diabetic cat her shot, but things wrapped up early any way (because we're all old and tired) so we left together and went for a walk. With our various obligations, I'm just happy we could do something together this weekend and I'm not worried about the dating rule book and formalities like the right sequence of dates.
If I was in his shoes, I would have felt a little awkward and uncomfortable going, so he definitely got bonus points for being willing to meet the friends so early in.0 -
Shoes... I look at these.
And greeting with a kiss would be awesome if it were a guy I was crushing on and he finally asked me out. I saw this on a movie once. But if it's an online date, hellz no... Although I do greet all my dates with a hug.
See, I knew there was someone in here who looked at shoes.
In Mellie's case, this was a 4th date. A kiss greet is fine by then. Especially since there had been 3 kiss free dates. In my world, there's usually not 3 kiss free dates. I need an indicator of interest sooner.0 -
I agree that was kind of a weird thing for a 4th date! LOL! This is definitely a case of letting life happen as Pa_jorg said.
This night was something that had been planned from before I met him, so that's what my Saturday was going to be. He had to travel for work this past week and he's leaving again today, so that was the only time we could see each other, otherwise it would have been an extra week since our last date. He wanted to go so he could see me this weekend. The separate car deal was because he thought he would have to leave early to get home to give his diabetic cat her shot, but things wrapped up early any way (because we're all old and tired) so we left together and went for a walk. With our various obligations, I'm just happy we could do something together this weekend and I'm not worried about the dating rule book and formalities like the right sequence of dates.
If I was in his shoes, I would have felt a little awkward and uncomfortable going, so he definitely got bonus points for being willing to meet the friends so early in.
Yes, that makes sense that you had this pot luck event planned weeks ago. Integrating two people's lives becomes so much harder after age 25.
I see the idea that seeing someone is better than letting another week elapse and risking further loss of momentum. The guy really likes you Mellie.
This guy seems to travel a lot. I see to remember him being gone for a week between Dates 1 and 2. At one point in time, I was interviewing for a job that would have had me relocate to Boston and once I got to the new job, I would have been on the road 1/3rd of the year. It's hard to make new friends and date if you're gone 1/3rd of the year. But dating is that important to me. I did withdraw from the interview process because I knew it wasn't going to be a good fit for me. The travel issue could become more and more relevant in your situation. Another friend I had asked to be transferred out of a high travel position (30-40%) after about 9-12 months because it was damaging his relationship, which was actually fairly well established before he even started the high travel position. That couple eventually broke up. :frown:0 -
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me. :bigsmile:
Awww, that's slightly swoon worthy :happy: While a kiss may be unusual to start a date, it definitely set a different tone and made clear his interest. I'm glad you're happy! Yay, Mellie!!0 -
LOL if i let myself overthink that much then the date is sure so be a disaster and a half ^^0
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The only thing that really matters to me is number 6. If we have good chemistry, good conversation, and we both have a good time then there will probably be a second date.
I'm generally not a first date kisser. The couple times that it happened there was a bit of alcohol involved and zero awkwardness. It does make the date better but I still wonder if they kiss every guy they go out on dates with.
I do not need a lot of pre-selection. A first date is not an extended amount of time, a first date is only one step in figuring out if you want to spend an extended amount of time with them. Chemistry is very difficult to tell over phone, email, text message, etc, you have to actually meet them. I do believe the planning of the date says a lot though.
Ambiance, punctuality, and appearance are very minor when you look at the big picture. I don't care if someone is 5-10 minutes late as long as they give me a heads up. I dress comfortably on a date, I if they don't like my style then best to get it out of the way early. I couldn't care less about ambiance, I want to date someone I will have a good time with no matter what.
"Spatial relations" don't really concern me too much. I'm just not a touchy feely person. I do believe there should be some touching within a few dates, but I don't want someone groping me like a drunken prom date within a half hour of knowing me. Women that require too much affection often turn out to be too needy for me and it's a bit of a turn off. But I will say the right amount with the right person is a good thing. Some people just get too caught up in the moment, I like to take things a little slower these days.0 -
See, I knew there was someone in here who looked at shoes.
Oh I definitely notice shoes! Like someone mentioned, they don't have to be fancy $200 shoes, but clean and appropriate to the occasion for sure!0 -
The only thing that really matters to me is number 6. If we have good chemistry, good conversation, and we both have a good time then there will probably be a second date.
I'm generally not a first date kisser. The couple times that it happened there was a bit of alcohol involved and zero awkwardness. It does make the date better but I still wonder if they kiss every guy they go out on dates with.
I do not need a lot of pre-selection. A first date is not an extended amount of time, a first date is only one step in figuring out if you want to spend an extended amount of time with them. Chemistry is very difficult to tell over phone, email, text message, etc, you have to actually meet them. I do believe the planning of the date says a lot though.
"Spatial relations" don't really concern me too much. I'm just not a touchy feely person. I do believe there should be some touching within a few dates, but I don't want someone groping me like a drunken prom date within a half hour of knowing me. Women that require too much affection often turn out to be too needy for me and it's a bit of a turn off.
I really do not like sitting across a table from someone in the early stages. It sets up a very neutral environment. Neutral dates do not create 2nd dates, especially when I know this girl could be booking 10 other guys. She needs positive reinforcement.
Good conversation without a kiss is utterly meaningless. And very few women will kiss every date they have. Enough dates are awkward. Awkward dates don't end in kisses.0 -
We may have to agree to disagree on this, but I've always just let things develop naturally and I've never had a problem getting a second date. To me, first dates are about me deciding if I want another date with them as much as it is about them deciding if they want another date with me. So it's more about getting to know them and less about creating some sort of false sense of environment. You can't force chemistry. I want to know I can connect with them emotionally before I try to connect with them physically. And sometimes after a cup of coffee or a drink I just don't have that sort of comfort level yet.I really do not like sitting across a table from someone in the early stages. It sets up a very neutral environment. Neutral dates do not create 2nd dates, especially when I know this girl could be booking 10 other guys. She needs positive reinforcement.
Good conversation without a kiss is utterly meaningless. And very few women will kiss every date they have. Enough dates are awkward. Awkward dates don't end in kisses.
See it seems like you have a lot of rules. That's fine if it works for you, but I'm the opposite. I have no rules really, I just try to be my funny, charming self and see how everything plays out. Sometimes we can't keep our hands off each other and end up making out. Sometimes I'm not sure how I feel about someone and I get a similar vibe from them, so we end up waiting until the second or third date to kiss.0
