Dying to know the "extenuating circumstances" Dying

wishy-washy embryo of a relationship you are presenting as exceptional when it is not

I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.

I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.

Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"

I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.

(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)

I agree. Not much of an upgrade.

"I don't want to date you...but I'll have sex with you."

I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.

Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"

I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.

(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)

Okay... speaking for myself...

This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.

Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.

Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.

I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.

Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"

I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.

(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)

Okay... speaking for myself...

This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.

Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.

Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.

I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...

I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!

I have been friendzoned and recently upgraded to FWB.

Do people really consider FWB an "upgrade" to "friendzoned?"

I've been away from the forums for awhile and have a lot of catching up to do.. but wow... this makes me feel sad. It would be one thing if you went into FWB knowing upfront, but since you've both gone into it hoping for more you're fooling yourselves by ignoring the guys who are being honest.

(admittedly, I didn't get past the 2nd page)

Okay... speaking for myself...

This particular individual and I have mutual feelings for each other. However, he has some emotional baggage that is holding him back. I consider it an upgrade because he has never let me get this close before. He pulls away any time we make a connection greater than friendship.

Just an update... things have cooled off a tad, but the lines of communication are still open. I plan to see him again soon and intend to talk to him more about seeking treatment.

Obviously, if he has no desire to address his issues on his own, then I have no hope for a relationship and will remove myself from the situation.

I am still not sure I believe FWB is an upgrade in your case... Sex isn't an emotional connection for men like it is for women.. so for you thinking he is letting you get closer, that isn't emotionally closer IMO... just physically...

I dated an alcoholic for 9 years, one thing I learned is... you bringing it up will never ever change a thing. I would just cut your ties, let him fix it for himself, and if he does, you can hook up then.
But good luck to you!

The voice of reason!!!

From what I understand, men do not fall in love with a woman after sex the same way women are more likely to develop emotional feelings towards a man after having sex with him. When women have sex their bodies release a "bonding" hormone called oxytocin. Oxytocin helps assist with contractions during childbirth and it also assists with the production of breast milk. Sometimes when a baby cries a woman inadvertently released breast milk...that is the "bonding" hormone at work.

To my knowledge this occurs in men but in much lesser amounts.

It's biology!

I think it's wrong to say that men dont bond emotionally during sex. In fact, I'd say that if there is going to be any emotional attachment then it's going to happen during/after sex!! Men dont usually fall in love WITHOUT the sex part!

Men aren't machines, yer know! They do have feelings. Perhaps they are just better at separating the physical from emotional??

Not always true.

azhcanedition's pamphlet

What I think at issue here is a pure communication problem.

As the debate here illustrates, people have their own definitions of what should be done and what the end result typically is.

The jargon may change, and frankly I have a huge, huge, HUGE pet peeve that "hook up" or FWB has become a cool hip ironically independent sounding euphemism for dating. I'll table that rant for that later.

FWB, casual relationship, short term relationship, hook up...these all are words used created with a generalized set of rules for each one.

But, the catch, and always what causes 99% of the problem. Every single person has their own Wikipedia definition set to roll out on these generalized terms. And rather than have a deep level conversation with their "friend", "hook up",

Each one just assumes that they are following that "wikipedia" definition. It works for awhile because they have first component of what should be done attached with the given label. Hook up means seeing other people, FWB same, Short term relationship, Casual relationship tend to imply monogamy but ultimately no walking down the aisle or long term cohabitation is seen in the immediate future.

But, it's that second part that's the doozy. It's the missed step.


What the end result typically is.

That's the elephant in the room, that's the unspoken beast that often makes for the "bad hook-ups". To me, successful "hook-ups" or "fwbs" that work is because the people involved pretty much had the exact or similar wiki "set of rules" in their head. They got fortunate that their definitions matched up.

There's the people that are really just hooking up for hooking up, f'ing buddies for f'in buddies.

Then there's the people, those annoyingly want to make my head bang against the brick wall, people that interchange hooking up or fwb with casual dating (which directly implies it may lead to a more serious one later)

Their wiki is set to Hook up leads to serious relationship later.
FWB is a preliminary to LTR.

Except that when they meet a person, they expect that person to have the brand new all counter-intuitive definition in their head..but end up meeting one person that the definitions remain as they always started...and with zero communication involved...
"Bad hook up" indeed.

Here's my deal. With your partner, avoid these general concepts like a plague if you can help it. Sit down, hammer out what should be done (seeing other people? keeping it strictly to sex with no "hanging out" *cough*dating*cough*?) and what the end result typically is (is something more serious going to be an option at a later point?). Ultimately, labels may provide a general framework but they are just that...labels.

If you know that you are a more serious emotional person who has a tendency to get attached, then specifically say something that you wish to keep an option open for this whatever-label-you-use-agreement to become something more serious in the future. If one person does want that serious part at a later part, then a new deep discussion is held about what both parties expect and want at the later point. What typically causes the downfall of bad FWB or hook-up experience is this lack of communicating a desire for either a change to the set rules or even worse a created expectation for seriousness later (because it's hip to call dating Hooking up...R A G E...*ahem*), and the other party is never informed of the partner's definition until it's typically too late.

Right now, you're in the middle of a confusing mix of labels and obviously wanting more, but he's still got whatever issue he has on the table and is concerned that it will effect a more "set" relationship (because there are more stress factors involved with a "set" relationship).

Here's the deal.

Sit down

Have that deep level discussion. Define exactly what you want now, define exactly what you expect later. Labels are out the door in this discussion. Here's my suggestion for some ground-work on that discussion.

You want something more serious, say so. Tell him you understand his dilemma on getting help, but at the same time you can't honestly ignore your own growing feelings. You can be there to help support him and make sure he has support, but again can't ignore your own growing feelings. Ultimately, you don't want to cause even more stress on top of the plate he all has. Going back and forth with all these unknowns, stress seems all ready there and eventually may direct that stress in a bad way that you want to avoid.
At least, that's my suggestion for a template sit down deep discussion. Anyways, I'm done with my bit.
Good luck!

Sort it out now. Don't wait.