The friendzone ...

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  • TheKitsune6
    TheKitsune6 Posts: 5,798 Member
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    What I think at issue here is a pure communication problem.

    As the debate here illustrates, people have their own definitions of what should be done and what the end result typically is.

    The jargon may change, and frankly I have a huge, huge, HUGE pet peeve that "hook up" or FWB has become a cool hip ironically independent sounding euphemism for dating. I'll table that rant for that later.

    FWB, casual relationship, short term relationship, hook up...these all are words used created with a generalized set of rules for each one.

    But, the catch, and always what causes 99% of the problem. Every single person has their own Wikipedia definition set to roll out on these generalized terms. And rather than have a deep level conversation with their "friend", "hook up",

    Each one just assumes that they are following that "wikipedia" definition. It works for awhile because they have first component of what should be done attached with the given label. Hook up means seeing other people, FWB same, Short term relationship, Casual relationship tend to imply monogamy but ultimately no walking down the aisle or long term cohabitation is seen in the immediate future.

    But, it's that second part that's the doozy. It's the missed step.


    What the end result typically is.

    That's the elephant in the room, that's the unspoken beast that often makes for the "bad hook-ups". To me, successful "hook-ups" or "fwbs" that work is because the people involved pretty much had the exact or similar wiki "set of rules" in their head. They got fortunate that their definitions matched up.

    There's the people that are really just hooking up for hooking up, f'ing buddies for f'in buddies.

    Then there's the people, those annoyingly want to make my head bang against the brick wall, people that interchange hooking up or fwb with casual dating (which directly implies it may lead to a more serious one later)

    Their wiki is set to Hook up leads to serious relationship later.
    FWB is a preliminary to LTR.

    Except that when they meet a person, they expect that person to have the brand new all counter-intuitive definition in their head..but end up meeting one person that the definitions remain as they always started...and with zero communication involved...
    "Bad hook up" indeed.

    Here's my deal. With your partner, avoid these general concepts like a plague if you can help it. Sit down, hammer out what should be done (seeing other people? keeping it strictly to sex with no "hanging out" *cough*dating*cough*?) and what the end result typically is (is something more serious going to be an option at a later point?). Ultimately, labels may provide a general framework but they are just that...labels.

    If you know that you are a more serious emotional person who has a tendency to get attached, then specifically say something that you wish to keep an option open for this whatever-label-you-use-agreement to become something more serious in the future. If one person does want that serious part at a later part, then a new deep discussion is held about what both parties expect and want at the later point. What typically causes the downfall of bad FWB or hook-up experience is this lack of communicating a desire for either a change to the set rules or even worse a created expectation for seriousness later (because it's hip to call dating Hooking up...R A G E...*ahem*), and the other party is never informed of the partner's definition until it's typically too late.

    Right now, you're in the middle of a confusing mix of labels and obviously wanting more, but he's still got whatever issue he has on the table and is concerned that it will effect a more "set" relationship (because there are more stress factors involved with a "set" relationship).

    Here's the deal.

    Sit down

    Have that deep level discussion. Define exactly what you want now, define exactly what you expect later. Labels are out the door in this discussion. Here's my suggestion for some ground-work on that discussion.

    You want something more serious, say so. Tell him you understand his dilemma on getting help, but at the same time you can't honestly ignore your own growing feelings. You can be there to help support him and make sure he has support, but again can't ignore your own growing feelings. Ultimately, you don't want to cause even more stress on top of the plate he all has. Going back and forth with all these unknowns, stress seems all ready there and eventually may direct that stress in a bad way that you want to avoid.
    At least, that's my suggestion for a template sit down deep discussion. Anyways, I'm done with my bit.
    Good luck!

    Sort it out now. Don't wait.

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  • jenbit
    jenbit Posts: 4,289 Member
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    azhcanedition's pamphlet
    I agree with everything you've said.

    That's also why I don't believe in love at first sight and all the Disney crap.

    Welcome to the 21st century people, where you have to clarify your expectations, interrupt the "flow" of the relationship to talk seriously, have non-romantic difficult conversations from time to time - otherwise you might well be the only one thinking you're in love (and worse).
    That's the price to pay to stop living in a world of lies.

    X2 gazzilion lol...... Any relationship of any kind involves talking even with FWB there should be a talk along the line of "this is FWB what do we expect of each other "

    communication peoples
  • kimad
    kimad Posts: 3,010 Member
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    I think it's wrong to say that men dont bond emotionally during sex. In fact, I'd say that if there is going to be any emotional attachment then it's going to happen during/after sex!! Men dont usually fall in love WITHOUT the sex part!

    Men aren't machines, yer know! They do have feelings. Perhaps they are just better at separating the physical from emotional?? :huh:

    Although, both men AND women can separate the physical from emotional. I've not been in love with every man I've slept with, that is for sure !! :flowerforyou:

    I wasn't saying men didn't ever bond during sex... what I meant is that women usually develop feelings by having sex with men... men usually can differentiate the two and not 'fall for' women thru sex alone. IE why men can more easily have ONS, FWB, and the like without feeling attached... whereas a lot of women, if not most, would feel some connection and/or commitment from having sex. Got me? HAHAHA that was confusing.
  • atjays
    atjays Posts: 798 Member
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    This question is mainly being put to the guys but feel free to disucuss ...

    Once you put a girl in the friendzone, does she ever have a shot of being more? The reason I ask is a good friend of mine and I have been hanging out (differently lately) and told me he doesn't want to ruin our friendship because he likes our friendship.

    I'm curious if once a girl gets put in the friendzone, does she ever come out?

    Me personally, I have interest of some form or another in every girl I have in my "friendzone" . Most all of them are dateable and I'm sure your friend thinks you are, however with all friendships, there's usually a hang up somewhere that keeps the person from going farther. Sometimes that hang up is a lack of self confidence on your guy friend's part and maybe he thinks you're too good for him or something. You'll never know the truth unless you ask them and only you know your full situation and which way would be best to handle it.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    Just thought I would give you guys an update:

    He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

    As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

    Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.
  • christine24t
    christine24t Posts: 6,063 Member
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    Just thought I would give you guys an update:

    He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

    As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

    Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

    Glad you both finally made the call to end it. No offense but your "relationship" with this guy sounds like a train wreck. You deserve someone who can be there emotionally for you, who can actually "admit" his feelings for you and isn't afraid to express himself to you. Don't wait around for this guy. Instead move on. If later he approaches you again and he is finally man enough to want to be in a relationship instead of just sex, then reconsider. But please don't wait around. That is just miserable.
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,229 Member
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    Just thought I would give you guys an update:

    He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

    As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

    Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

    Glad you both finally made the call to end it. No offense but your "relationship" with this guy sounds like a train wreck. You deserve someone who can be there emotionally for you, who can actually "admit" his feelings for you and isn't afraid to express himself to you. Don't wait around for this guy. Instead move on. If later he approaches you again and he is finally man enough to want to be in a relationship instead of just sex, then reconsider. But please don't wait around. That is just miserable.

    Well honestly, I am not looking at dating at all until I understand why I keep making some of the same mistakes in relationships. It's a long story, but I have several layers of abuse that has pretty much shaped my perception of relationships and my role in them. I didn't realize that before now so I really need to address that before I can have a functional relationship.

    I may not ever get out of the friend zone with this guy and I'm okay with that. I've just come to accept that I'm lucky just to have such an amazing person for a friend, and that's good enough.
  • sam308lbs
    sam308lbs Posts: 1,936 Member
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    Just thought I would give you guys an update:

    He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

    As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

    Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

    i am sorry to hear that:flowerforyou:
  • kimad
    kimad Posts: 3,010 Member
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    Just thought I would give you guys an update:

    He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

    As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

    Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

    Glad you both finally made the call to end it. No offense but your "relationship" with this guy sounds like a train wreck. You deserve someone who can be there emotionally for you, who can actually "admit" his feelings for you and isn't afraid to express himself to you. Don't wait around for this guy. Instead move on. If later he approaches you again and he is finally man enough to want to be in a relationship instead of just sex, then reconsider. But please don't wait around. That is just miserable.

    Well honestly, I am not looking at dating at all until I understand why I keep making some of the same mistakes in relationships. It's a long story, but I have several layers of abuse that has pretty much shaped my perception of relationships and my role in them. I didn't realize that before now so I really need to address that before I can have a functional relationship.

    I may not ever get out of the friend zone with this guy and I'm okay with that. I've just come to accept that I'm lucky just to have such an amazing person for a friend, and that's good enough.

    I've been in your shoes of disaster after disaster and when I finally stopped and tried to figure out what was wrong with me and actually work on it I was much better off. The process was painful, I bawled my eyes out alot but I look back now at all these men I thought were amazing and I needed in my life (like you) I realized were the toxins of my past and I had to remove them to heel and move on. I realized how i made the same mistakes over and over - i had to set boundaries and values and realize my worth. Some of the men were harder than others to let go but my life has been so much better. If you have a tough past it will be painful but you will be doing yourself a favour to figure it all out.

    I agree with Christine to not wait around. You never give yourself a chance to work on you, you prolong the pain, and aren't available for mr right!!

    While I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted I am also glad... This is an easy one to call for being an emotional train wreck. You'll see the same in if one day :)
  • whierd
    whierd Posts: 14,025 Member
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  • nolachick
    nolachick Posts: 3,278 Member
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    stupid friendzone