What I think at issue here is a pure communication problem.

As the debate here illustrates, people have their own definitions of what should be done and what the end result typically is.

The jargon may change, and frankly I have a huge, huge, HUGE pet peeve that "hook up" or FWB has become a cool hip ironically independent sounding euphemism for dating. I'll table that rant for that later.

FWB, casual relationship, short term relationship, hook up...these all are words used created with a generalized set of rules for each one.

But, the catch, and always what causes 99% of the problem. Every single person has their own Wikipedia definition set to roll out on these generalized terms. And rather than have a deep level conversation with their "friend", "hook up",

Each one just assumes that they are following that "wikipedia" definition. It works for awhile because they have first component of what should be done attached with the given label. Hook up means seeing other people, FWB same, Short term relationship, Casual relationship tend to imply monogamy but ultimately no walking down the aisle or long term cohabitation is seen in the immediate future.

But, it's that second part that's the doozy. It's the missed step.


What the end result typically is.

That's the elephant in the room, that's the unspoken beast that often makes for the "bad hook-ups". To me, successful "hook-ups" or "fwbs" that work is because the people involved pretty much had the exact or similar wiki "set of rules" in their head. They got fortunate that their definitions matched up.

There's the people that are really just hooking up for hooking up, f'ing buddies for f'in buddies.

Then there's the people, those annoyingly want to make my head bang against the brick wall, people that interchange hooking up or fwb with casual dating (which directly implies it may lead to a more serious one later)

Their wiki is set to Hook up leads to serious relationship later.
FWB is a preliminary to LTR.

Except that when they meet a person, they expect that person to have the brand new all counter-intuitive definition in their head..but end up meeting one person that the definitions remain as they always started...and with zero communication involved...
"Bad hook up" indeed.

Here's my deal. With your partner, avoid these general concepts like a plague if you can help it. Sit down, hammer out what should be done (seeing other people? keeping it strictly to sex with no "hanging out" *cough*dating*cough*?) and what the end result typically is (is something more serious going to be an option at a later point?). Ultimately, labels may provide a general framework but they are just that...labels.

If you know that you are a more serious emotional person who has a tendency to get attached, then specifically say something that you wish to keep an option open for this whatever-label-you-use-agreement to become something more serious in the future. If one person does want that serious part at a later part, then a new deep discussion is held about what both parties expect and want at the later point. What typically causes the downfall of bad FWB or hook-up experience is this lack of communicating a desire for either a change to the set rules or even worse a created expectation for seriousness later (because it's hip to call dating Hooking up...R A G E...*ahem*), and the other party is never informed of the partner's definition until it's typically too late.

Right now, you're in the middle of a confusing mix of labels and obviously wanting more, but he's still got whatever issue he has on the table and is concerned that it will effect a more "set" relationship (because there are more stress factors involved with a "set" relationship).

Here's the deal.

Sit down

Have that deep level discussion. Define exactly what you want now, define exactly what you expect later. Labels are out the door in this discussion. Here's my suggestion for some ground-work on that discussion.

You want something more serious, say so. Tell him you understand his dilemma on getting help, but at the same time you can't honestly ignore your own growing feelings. You can be there to help support him and make sure he has support, but again can't ignore your own growing feelings. Ultimately, you don't want to cause even more stress on top of the plate he all has. Going back and forth with all these unknowns, stress seems all ready there and eventually may direct that stress in a bad way that you want to avoid.
At least, that's my suggestion for a template sit down deep discussion. Anyways, I'm done with my bit.
Good luck!

Sort it out now. Don't wait.

I think it's wrong to say that men dont bond emotionally during sex. In fact, I'd say that if there is going to be any emotional attachment then it's going to happen during/after sex!! Men dont usually fall in love WITHOUT the sex part!

Men aren't machines, yer know! They do have feelings. Perhaps they are just better at separating the physical from emotional?? :huh:

Although, both men AND women can separate the physical from emotional. I've not been in love with every man I've slept with, that is for sure !! :flowerforyou:

Just thought I would give you guys an update:

He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

Glad you both finally made the call to end it. No offense but your "relationship" with this guy sounds like a train wreck. You deserve someone who can be there emotionally for you, who can actually "admit" his feelings for you and isn't afraid to express himself to you. Don't wait around for this guy. Instead move on. If later he approaches you again and he is finally man enough to want to be in a relationship instead of just sex, then reconsider. But please don't wait around. That is just miserable.

Just thought I would give you guys an update:

He has decided that we should stop having sex to preserve our friendship. I wasn't thrilled about this at first, but after giving it some thought, I decided that he made a good judgment call. Neither of us are in a good place emotionally to be in relationship, in spite of the fact that we both want one. I had not realized that I was self-sabotaging myself, and that this relationship would have eventually ended in disaster. I really didn't think that I wanted a relationship, but at the same time, I wanted one with him. So my actions were not really reflecting my desires. He still won't admit that he has feelings for me, even though, he came very close to it during the course of this conversation. I am just focused now on getting my issues worked out so that I am available to him, or at least, the right person if it is not him. And to work on building our friendship so should things change between us in the future, we will have a solid foundation to build on.

As far as my feelings go, I'm probably even more in love with him now, but I need to figure out if those feelings are real, or if I'm just convincing myself that they are because of my own emotional baggage.

Thanks again everyone. Not quite the happy ending I wanted, but I suppose it could have been worse.

Glad you both finally made the call to end it. No offense but your "relationship" with this guy sounds like a train wreck. You deserve someone who can be there emotionally for you, who can actually "admit" his feelings for you and isn't afraid to express himself to you. Don't wait around for this guy. Instead move on. If later he approaches you again and he is finally man enough to want to be in a relationship instead of just sex, then reconsider. But please don't wait around. That is just miserable.

Well honestly, I am not looking at dating at all until I understand why I keep making some of the same mistakes in relationships. It's a long story, but I have several layers of abuse that has pretty much shaped my perception of relationships and my role in them. I didn't realize that before now so I really need to address that before I can have a functional relationship.

I may not ever get out of the friend zone with this guy and I'm okay with that. I've just come to accept that I'm lucky just to have such an amazing person for a friend, and that's good enough.