Doesn't Counting Calories Count?
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If you can lose or maintain without tracking calories, by doing keto, more power to you. I have an emotional history with eating, and tracking calories engages my conscious reasoning mind in the struggle against stress and boredom. I love fat every bit as much as I ever loved sugar.3
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gerrielips wrote: »This is all so new to me, I'm learning a lot from you all and this is extremely interesting and inspiring. Right now I'm just lowering the total carbs - 120 max (which is likely a lot for those on LCHF, but I've cut out all bread, rice, pasta, potatoes and highly processed foods). I'm trying to regain a sense of portion control (so the calories for me are a guide line - I don't sweat if I go over or under, just so I have a feeling of fullness and am losing weight.) I lost 5 pounds doing this in about 2 weeks along with exercise, but likely the pounds won't come off so quickly now...My goal is to be healthy. I plan on seeking out a nutritionist with low carb credentials and I'll have several weeks of MFP records to show to see what I need to change in the future.
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Started to reread this wonderful thread and found my message from 2/23/15 - here it is 1/7/16 and I'm down 35 pounds (ok- I gained 2 pounds over my Oct-Dec break when I sorta' goofed off) and now I'm readying to give it another go to take off 30 more. Again, I've learned not to obsess about how many total calories I eat and I'm doing my low carb (slow carb?) WOE - my doc is thrilled and I'm overjoyed at how this LCHF forum has improved my health so dramatically. I may not implement everything I learn from everyone, but I do learn from you all and am so grateful.
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gerrielips wrote: »gerrielips wrote: »This is all so new to me, I'm learning a lot from you all and this is extremely interesting and inspiring. Right now I'm just lowering the total carbs - 120 max (which is likely a lot for those on LCHF, but I've cut out all bread, rice, pasta, potatoes and highly processed foods). I'm trying to regain a sense of portion control (so the calories for me are a guide line - I don't sweat if I go over or under, just so I have a feeling of fullness and am losing weight.) I lost 5 pounds doing this in about 2 weeks along with exercise, but likely the pounds won't come off so quickly now...My goal is to be healthy. I plan on seeking out a nutritionist with low carb credentials and I'll have several weeks of MFP records to show to see what I need to change in the future.
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Started to reread this wonderful thread and found my message from 2/23/15 - here it is 1/7/16 and I'm down 35 pounds (ok- I gained 2 pounds over my Oct-Dec break when I sorta' goofed off) and now I'm readying to give it another go to take off 30 more. Again, I've learned not to obsess about how many total calories I eat and I'm doing my low carb (slow carb?) WOE - my doc is thrilled and I'm overjoyed at how this LCHF forum has improved my health so dramatically. I may not implement everything I learn from everyone, but I do learn from you all and am so grateful.
KUDOS on you success!!0 -
I think for those who make an effort to eat good foods like veggies and avoid things like bars but if the quality of your diets isn't the greatest, there is probably more risk of overeating in terms of calories. For example, I don't like veggies so I get a lot of my fibre from Quest bars and Adkins bars. I also LOVE Planter's dry roasted peanuts to the point where I have to measure out by a 1/3rd cup at a time because I could easily put away a 3rd of the jar in a sitting if I wanted to and the are very calorie dense but not high in net carbs. With these three items a staple of my keto diet I have no trouble getting high fibre in my diet but have to be calorie aware as my goal is to shed some more fat.0
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jrloveless wrote: »Thanks for this post. I'm still getting my feet wet on the whole LCHF thing. I don't want to cause issues with my kidneys so I'm going to work at keeping the protein at 100g or less every day and carbs are 20g or less a day. However, I'm not sure how to calculate how many grams of fat I should be sticking with. Does anyone have a suggestion how to figure this out?
Do you have preexisting kidney issues? If you don't, protein hasn't been shown to cause problems. It's only something to worry about if you already have damaged kidneys.
Fat until it's not appealing. I don't measure or count the fat I eat. Big hunks of it are pretty awesome, today I was eating pure chunks of cold beef fat dipped in hot sauce and sour cream. Granted, that's just me. I've found that, as I lost body fat, my desire for dietary fat went up. At the start, I ate a lot of fat, but more lean compared to now. When I sit down for a meat, I focus on the fat of the meat first and eat mostly that. And, I work my way into the leaner portions of the meat. It probably doesn't change the amount I end up eating, because I usually finish my whole steak.
No I have no pre-existing kidney issues. They were checked at the end of last year.
So any amount of protein is okay? I was under the impression from what I've been reading out of 100g of protein 56g can potentially become glucose and too much protein can kick you out of ketosis. I'm just really trying to find what works best for me. So far counting calories hasn't. I know that carbs are worse for me too because when counting calories, I eat carbs and I can't seem to lose past a certain amount. Then I get discouraged and quit.
Thanks everyone for those links. Helpful info on there as well.
I can't do that with the pure chunks of fat. >.> Sorry that is so outside of what I find appetizing. lol.
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Thank you I will. Ya I need to learn how to eat more food w lower calories just because it takes a lot to fill me up.PaleoInScotland wrote: »Kimpadula201 wrote: »
I hate counting calories but I was wondering if doing that plus no carb would help me lose the weight faster. I am noticing though that it's almost impossible because since proteins/ fats are usually high in calories I literally can only eat a spec of food which does not work for me because I eat so so much! The only solution I see is basically snacking on like cucumbers and raw carrots,but carrots are higher in carbs so I would most likely go over my carb allowance in that case but I would prob stay under my calories. Like you said "no one gotten fat from eating carrots" lol. Anyway any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated!!!
Let me start by saying that I'm not advocating a low cal LCHF diet for anyone as most don't need it.
I am on quite a calorie restrictive LCHF diet (1200-1300 cal/day) because I'm trying to get off insulin. Just changing my diet to LCHF alone was not enough and my insulin doses have caused major weight gain that I just cannot lose without cutting the insulin. I'm down to just 30 units a day after 4 weeks, versus 310 units a day before, so it's working for me. Lowest I got just doing LCHF w/o counting calories was to 135 units a day.
But you're welcome to add me as a friend so you can view my diary for some food ideas. I stretch my calories pretty far and make the most out of them and don't feel deprived. I don't eat a lot of snacks, but I have three pretty hearty meals that fill me up (except today, my dinner plans are pretty lame because I don't have time to go shopping).
I was reading though that maybe then my fat won't be high enough to get into ketosis as too much lean protein makes that hard? Idk I'm confusing myself.. Need to brush up on my low carb facts! Lol
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Ya what @jrloveless said... I read a few times that too much protein -I guess without the fat balance?-can kick you out of ketosis or make it hard to get in. Would eating steak which has more fat be better than eating chicken breast or that doesn't matter?0
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jrloveless wrote: »jrloveless wrote: »Thanks for this post. I'm still getting my feet wet on the whole LCHF thing. I don't want to cause issues with my kidneys so I'm going to work at keeping the protein at 100g or less every day and carbs are 20g or less a day. However, I'm not sure how to calculate how many grams of fat I should be sticking with. Does anyone have a suggestion how to figure this out?
Do you have preexisting kidney issues? If you don't, protein hasn't been shown to cause problems. It's only something to worry about if you already have damaged kidneys.
Fat until it's not appealing. I don't measure or count the fat I eat. Big hunks of it are pretty awesome, today I was eating pure chunks of cold beef fat dipped in hot sauce and sour cream. Granted, that's just me. I've found that, as I lost body fat, my desire for dietary fat went up. At the start, I ate a lot of fat, but more lean compared to now. When I sit down for a meat, I focus on the fat of the meat first and eat mostly that. And, I work my way into the leaner portions of the meat. It probably doesn't change the amount I end up eating, because I usually finish my whole steak.
No I have no pre-existing kidney issues. They were checked at the end of last year.
So any amount of protein is okay? I was under the impression from what I've been reading out of 100g of protein 56g can potentially become glucose and too much protein can kick you out of ketosis. I'm just really trying to find what works best for me. So far counting calories hasn't. I know that carbs are worse for me too because when counting calories, I eat carbs and I can't seem to lose past a certain amount. Then I get discouraged and quit.
Thanks everyone for those links. Helpful info on there as well.
I can't do that with the pure chunks of fat. >.> Sorry that is so outside of what I find appetizing. lol.
Your body can also use some fatty acids to make the glucose but it generally is a supply and demand regulated action. It won't just keep cranking out glucose all day if it doesn't need it. Once the needs of the brain are net, the rest of the protein becomes ketones too. The exception to this would be in the case of someone with insulin resistance/Type 2 diabetes, where the pancreas is producing too much insulin. That raises the demand needs for glucose. But, more glucose also triggers more insulin... So it can be a tricky balance in those cases. Without this kind of issue, your body will only make the minimum required amount of glucose that the brain needs. So, you can eat whatever amount of protein you want unless there's some other reason to limit it.0 -
Do you have preexisting kidney issues? If you don't, protein hasn't been shown to cause problems. It's only something to worry about if you already have damaged kidneys.
Damaged kidneys are not something you would necessarily be aware of. A study just came out of people with prediabetes that linked chronic mildly elevated blood sugar with undiagnosed kidney diseases. (Previously the party line has been that you don't need to worry about it until you are actually diagnosed with diabetes.)
Some of the discussions have recommended that anyone with prediabetes (and presumably diabetes as well) have regular tests to detect kidney disease earlier than the standard tests -because much of the damage they found was not previously detected.
My personal opinion (even before this study) is that anyone with diabetes or prediabetes should assume they need to treat their kidneys with kid gloves and limit protein to the amount needed to maintain lean body mass.0 -
I've been sticking to the LCHF eating style since the 1st of the year, so at one week today full time. Slipped once earlier in the week, but got back to it immediately. I weighed myself today and I am only down two lbs. So I am wondering if there is something wrong I'm doing versus what others do where they're losing 13lbs in the first month. I am definitely not on that track. I've been very good about tracking the carbs through MFP and I've been sticking to 20g or less. Any ideas?0
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jrloveless wrote: »I've been sticking to the LCHF eating style since the 1st of the year, so at one week today full time. Slipped once earlier in the week, but got back to it immediately. I weighed myself today and I am only down two lbs. So I am wondering if there is something wrong I'm doing versus what others do where they're losing 13lbs in the first month. I am definitely not on that track. I've been very good about tracking the carbs through MFP and I've been sticking to 20g or less. Any ideas?
Everyone's weight loss will be different. How much weight are you looking to lose? The closer you are to your goal weight, the slower the weight loss. Have you used the keto calculator?0 -
Also, when you slip, even once while you're adapting, if you're aiming for Keto, you start basically all over again.0
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Also, when you slip, even once while you're adapting, if you're aiming for Keto, you start basically all over again.
I found it a lot easier the 2nd and 3rd time around, like almost unoticeable, no keto flu, maybe a day of cravings. The first slip was major: three weeks in Iceland, eating sandwiches that my hostess made me, and having an occasional pastry. The other slips were just a day here and there, going a little over 50 grams of carbs, and may not qualify as slips, since you're probably still in some level of ketosis when you're at 70 grams of carbs.
The moral of that story is that even when you're slipping, it's better to jump right back on as early as possible.0 -
jrloveless wrote: »I've been sticking to the LCHF eating style since the 1st of the year, so at one week today full time. Slipped once earlier in the week, but got back to it immediately. I weighed myself today and I am only down two lbs. So I am wondering if there is something wrong I'm doing versus what others do where they're losing 13lbs in the first month. I am definitely not on that track. I've been very good about tracking the carbs through MFP and I've been sticking to 20g or less. Any ideas?
The first of the year was a whopping 7 days ago. We're just today a week into the year. 2 pounds in a week is fantastic. The fast losses are primarily from water weight, because those people are carb-sensitive and eating carbs causes them to retain water and be bloated, even if they didn't realize it prior to this diet. Not everyone has that issue.
Have a look at the Launch Pad, specifically the "your scale is a lying liar pants" article. It will explain in more detail this kind of thing.
Do you have preexisting kidney issues? If you don't, protein hasn't been shown to cause problems. It's only something to worry about if you already have damaged kidneys.
Damaged kidneys are not something you would necessarily be aware of. A study just came out of people with prediabetes that linked chronic mildly elevated blood sugar with undiagnosed kidney diseases. (Previously the party line has been that you don't need to worry about it until you are actually diagnosed with diabetes.)
Some of the discussions have recommended that anyone with prediabetes (and presumably diabetes as well) have regular tests to detect kidney disease earlier than the standard tests -because much of the damage they found was not previously detected.
My personal opinion (even before this study) is that anyone with diabetes or prediabetes should assume they need to treat their kidneys with kid gloves and limit protein to the amount needed to maintain lean body mass.
That still counts as preexisting kidney issues, in my opinion. This way of eating (and many like it) is known for uncovering previously unknown issues, for a number of reasons. The reason for this distinction is because of fears like the above that such a diet supposedly "causes" these issues, and because the number that supposedly causes it creeps lower and lower.
100g of protein is actually not unreasonable for the vast majority of people, even for Diabetics (it is a little on the high side for petite women, but not outside the realm of reasonableness depending on activity level). On 1500 calories or more, you pretty much have to put forth effort to not be in the ballpark of 100g of protein.0 -
Love this thread! I started low carb two and a half years ago. I was 185 lbs, 5'7" (female) and wanted to drop the baby weight from my third child. I had been eating low fat/calorie controlled for a year and had lost a whopping 5 lbs. when I first started low carb I actually used the usda's my plate website (of all things) to log my food, just to keep track of macros. After the first month or so I stopped logging regularly and just did a "spot check" once or twice a month. At that point I had a good sense of what I could eat with impunity, what I could still enjoy but had to keep and eye on, and what I really needed to avoid. I lost 40 lbs in 7 months and most of that time I had no idea how many calories I was eating, I just knew I was eating around 80-100g of carbs per day.
What brought me to MFP was my fourth pregnancy. I had added back some carbs, which of course triggered insatiable appetite and cravings and was gaining way too fast. I started logging and tracking calories (as well as carbs - aiming for 120-150 g per day) and slowed the gain, but still put on 50 lbs. I stopped logging once the baby was born and went back to how I was eating when I first went hflc. Baby is 5 months old and I've dropped 40 of the 50 lbs I gained without logging a single meal. As you say - watch the carbs and the calories take care of themselves!0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »Love this thread! I started low carb two and a half years ago. I was 185 lbs, 5'7" (female) and wanted to drop the baby weight from my third child. I had been eating low fat/calorie controlled for a year and had lost a whopping 5 lbs. when I first started low carb I actually used the usda's my plate website (of all things) to log my food, just to keep track of macros. After the first month or so I stopped logging regularly and just did a "spot check" once or twice a month. At that point I had a good sense of what I could eat with impunity, what I could still enjoy but had to keep and eye on, and what I really needed to avoid. I lost 40 lbs in 7 months and most of that time I had no idea how many calories I was eating, I just knew I was eating around 80-100g of carbs per day.
What brought me to MFP was my fourth pregnancy. I had added back some carbs, which of course triggered insatiable appetite and cravings and was gaining way too fast. I started logging and tracking calories (as well as carbs - aiming for 120-150 g per day) and slowed the gain, but still put on 50 lbs. I stopped logging once the baby was born and went back to how I was eating when I first went hflc. Baby is 5 months old and I've dropped 40 of the 50 lbs I gained without logging a single meal. As you say - watch the carbs and the calories take care of themselves!
Thanks for the info and the encouraging outcome! I hope I can accomplish that. I'm determined to do it this time. My knees and my feet are just not doing well supporting my weight. I'm at the heaviest I've ever been in my life and have 100+ lbs to lose.
I know every ounce lost is a gain, but it's just difficult to keep that in mind when I've been struggling for so long to lose it and then I see others saying they lost XX amount in such a short span. I'd like to be one of those, lol.0 -
"I know every ounce lost is a gain, but it's just difficult to keep that in mind when I've been struggling for so long to lose it and then I see others saying they lost XX amount in such a short span. I'd like to be one of those, lol."
You'll get there! Keep in mind that, yeah I've lost 40 of the 50 I gained during pregnancy, but 20 of what I've lost so far was lost in the first week post partum - so it was baby and baby biproducts, lol. I've lost 20 lbs of actual weight in 5 months, so averaging around a pound a week. I'm fine with that - it's slow, steady, and allows me to maintain milk supply, not to mention gives my stretched out skin time to shrink back :P If you look at LC as a permanent change, and something you are doing to improve health, rather than just to drop lbs, you realize that while it might not always be as fast as you want (the holidays slowed me down quite a bit), it will happen. And at least we don't have to go hungry while doing it!0 -
@jrloveless, Please don't compare your weight loss to the loss of others! There are way too many factors involved, plus, someone with the exact body size, type and weight will lose at different rates. The body's need to heal will override the weight loss too. I've been strictly keto for almost a year, and have lost 44 pounds (wanting to lose about 25 more). Much of the year was spent with no loss, but, the inches lost, and the health benefits have been tremendous! No, it's not fun to see no movement on the scale, but you should never base your motivation on that number! The fact that you've lost two pounds needs to be celebrated! I call that a very successful first week! Hang in there! Before you know it your feet and knees will be doing great!1
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I have seen members share photos where they dropped several clothing sizes and incredibly little weight. I mean like 5-10 pounds, but 4 to 5 sizes! I wouldn't have believed such a thing was possible if I hadn't seen the photos myself. I think there was a thread of progress pics where I saw them.2
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Ya def inches are different than lbs. I can feel way skinnier and fit into jeans that are usually tight within a few weeks of dieting but I won't necessarily drop a lot of weight. Hard to not look at the scale but it's true it's really not always an accurate measure of progress!0
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Health, inches, appearance, energy levels, joy and somewhere at the bottom of the list scale weight.
Personally, I would be ecstatic with 2 pounds in a week. Sounds like what you are doing is "right". We are all human so some people find very low carb much more effective than low carb. I am almost 4 months in and still learning what is sustainable and fun for me.0 -
jrloveless wrote: »I know every ounce lost is a gain, but it's just difficult to keep that in mind when I've been struggling for so long to lose it and then I see others saying they lost XX amount in such a short span. I'd like to be one of those, lol.
Weight loss can also be cyclical. I'll go 3-4 weeks without losing an ounce, then it will suddenly "fall off" over the course of a couple of days.
Put the scale away for now and go by inches and how you feel.0 -
@FIT_Goat fantastic video. Starts slow but 15 mins in it gets very interesting. Will next looking at your good to read tips:
"Good Calories Bad Calories" By Taubes
"Why We Get Fat" By Taubes
"The Calorie Myth" By Bailor
Thanks again. Really re-enforced what my doctor has been asking me to do.0 -
Here is another personal experiment about eating 5,800 calories on LCHF that supports what @FIT_Goat is saying. End result after eating 5,800 calories on LCHF=very little weight gain vs weight gain with same calories of carbs.
Thought since there were already so many great links about this topic, I'd add this one as well in the Anti-counting column.
http://myhealthlogics.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet/
Just to balance out the counting, there is the pro-counting link.
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/
I think repeating the same thing over and over doesn't merit as convincing an argument as actually doing a diet experiment. I'll leave it there on both to count or not to count.0 -
This is a pretty dumb argument for not counting calories.
Count carbs, but purposefully don't count calories because why? It's too tyrannical? It's not as effective?
No, you're being purposefully obtuse, avoiding the calorie count by using MFP is like closing your eyes to the truth.
Calories matter, whether or not you want to admit it, that's not the point. Carbs matter, and ignoring calories is just as blinding as ignoring carbs.
So manage both, it's not difficult, your life is not damaged by eating 2,000 calories instead of 3,000. You don't live less, you just live more strict, and discipline is a good thing.0 -
Who is this directed to? The OP states calories matter and if you feel more comfortable counting then count. Part of low carb though is that naturally your appetite is reduced causing one to eat less calories. Counting calories doesn't create weight loss, eating at a caloric deficit does. So whether you count or not, if you are eating less calories than your body needs you will lose weight. I didn't see anyone being "deliberately obtuse" on that matter.0
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This is a pretty dumb argument for not counting calories.
Count carbs, but purposefully don't count calories because why? It's too tyrannical? It's not as effective?
No, you're being purposefully obtuse, avoiding the calorie count by using MFP is like closing your eyes to the truth.
Calories matter, whether or not you want to admit it, that's not the point. Carbs matter, and ignoring calories is just as blinding as ignoring carbs.
So manage both, it's not difficult, your life is not damaged by eating 2,000 calories instead of 3,000. You don't live less, you just live more strict, and discipline is a good thing.
You're missing the point of the original argument. It never says that calories don't matter. Not counting calories does not necessarily equate to eating 3,000 calories (or overeating in general), especially on a low carb, high fat diet. When you restrict carbs, your appetite nearly always levels out to what you need to modulate your weight (lose if you need it, gain if you need it), as long as you listen to and respect it. Study after study has found that when subjects are put on a low carb diet and told to eat what they want as long as they keep their carb intake to a set level, their total caloric intake goes down without them even trying.
In other words, there's a difference between saying "calories don't matter" and "calorie counting doesn't matter."
We actually had a challenge a few months back, where participants turned off the calorie part of their MFP trackers (I built a Greasemonkey script to do this). The end result was that very little actually changed. Most people continued to lose weight at their expected rate, and the ones who were in maintenance continued to maintain. Only a couple of people gained or maintained when they were looking to maintain or lose, respectively, and the ones that gained gained less than 2lb over the month. You can see the results of the challenge here, if you'd like -- http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10149266/ad-lib-april-final-may-1st/p1
Also, this particular thread is to highlight all the reasons for not calorie counting for use in the Launch Pad. There is an equivalent thread that highlights all the reasons for calorie counting, linked in the original post.1 -
This is a pretty dumb argument for not counting calories.
Count carbs, but purposefully don't count calories because why? It's too tyrannical? It's not as effective?
No, you're being purposefully obtuse, avoiding the calorie count by using MFP is like closing your eyes to the truth.
Calories matter, whether or not you want to admit it, that's not the point. Carbs matter, and ignoring calories is just as blinding as ignoring carbs.
So manage both, it's not difficult, your life is not damaged by eating 2,000 calories instead of 3,000. You don't live less, you just live more strict, and discipline is a good thing.
I don't think the idea is just to eat endlessly and ignore calories. But some choose not to specifically track it and take the path of learning to respond to hunger cues without obsessing about calories.
It's not a matter of closing ones eyes to the truth. It's focusing on a different way to know how much is the right amount. To learn to manage food and health for life without specifically tallying and thinking about the numbers.
I personally am more successful and comfortable counting, but I wouldn't suggest that anyone who does it differently is being obtuse or even living any less strict than myself. There is more than one way to have discipline in regards to food and health. Learning to distinguish between actual hunger or boredom or cravings are certainly part of a non calorie counting way of life. Many people are very successful with not counting and they aren't any less disciplined than you.0 -
Awe looking through that old thread makes me sad, there are so many I don't see around much anymore.0
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auntstephie321 wrote: »Awe looking through that old thread makes me sad, there are so many I don't see around much anymore.
I agree @auntstephie321!0
This discussion has been closed.