Want to be a fat burner? Exercise!
Options
Replies
-
ruffneck813 wrote: »Is that just for satiety purposes or to train your body to burn fat? Once to that point should you greatly reduce fat if it doesn't bother satiety in order to burn a lot more fat? Now I'm all mixed up
I guess this is why, to me, it's important to have a mental framework of how this works. What are you using for guidance?
The "eat fat to burn fat" is nonsense in my mind. Yes, you'll burn fat, but you'll first burn dietary fat. However, if you just eat enough to reach satiety, most people will spontaneously reduce calories, and that will cause them to burn body fat.
So in my mental model, it doesn't make sense to reach a fat target or a fat/protein ratio. But if it makes sense to you, try it before you change your model.
One thing increased dietary fat will probably do is increase ketone levels, so if that's important to you, then you should keep fat intake high.0 -
ruffneck813 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn
@wabmester Am I reading this right?? It comes across as eat less fat to burn more fat.
This is why people say to eat until satisfied, but not til full.
And that you don't HAVE TO meet the fat goal. But, it's still important to get enough... You shouldn't be hungry on low carb. If you are, you're probably not eating enough fat or enough in general. Could be one or the other... Or even both.
Yeah true. I've often seen people grumbling that they can't hit their fat goal without shoveling in more food even though they're not hungry...
That's been part of my problem. Trying to find enough fat to eat to meet my "daily requirements". I have more problems keeping the calories in check because I can eat lots of meat. I'm still new to this and working on changing eating habits/listening to my body. I also though we were supposed to eat a lot of fat (within the parameters given) to help the body burn fat. Now I see every gram I eat is less my body will burn? Well, I can eat a lot of protein and a lot less fat but all the formulas say to do it opposite. Is that just for satiety purposes or to train your body to burn fat? Once to that point should you greatly reduce fat if it doesn't bother satiety in order to burn a lot more fat? Now I'm all mixed up
Eat carbs to grams.
Eat protein range to grams (for LBM, height, and activity level).
Fill what's left of your intake (calories) with fat.
Don't cut out fat, as you should get plenty of healthy fats in your diet, but you don't need to go overboard on it if you aren't hungry.
0 -
How do i figure out my 70% VO2max? I guess I'm wondering if I'm working out at the right heart rate.0
-
Episode 10 of Keto talk covered this very well in the last half of the episode. I was listening to it thinking "wow, that's how everyone needs to have the fat and protein thing explained to them"
I highly recommend it.0 -
annalisbeth74 wrote: »How do i figure out my 70% VO2max? I guess I'm wondering if I'm working out at the right heart rate.
I don't think there's really a right HR -- I was just using a couple known data points they gave in the study. Everybody had peak fat oxidation at a slightly different VO2.
But you can estimate your %VO2max by plugging your age and HR into this calc:
http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/calculators/heart-rate-and-percent-vo2max-conversion-calculator.aspx
Just play with the HR until it gives you the target %VO2max you want.0 -
@wabmester - Interesting. According to that calculator, my HR for my last couple of runs was on the high side for this. It creates an interesting dilemma. I want to continue to push myself when I run, so that I can get in better shape and hopefully one day go back to half marathons, but I also don't want to miss the peak fat oxidation window. Maybe a mixture of high intensity and medium intensity workouts? I think I need to read the study again.
@Sunny_Bunny_ I'll have to check that out. I've never heard of keto talk.0 -
I run at a variety of paces. You'll burn fat whenever you run, so don't worry too much about the peak fat oxidation rate.
This study only shows the difference between high-carb athletes and low-carb athletes, but keep in mind that all of the low-carbers are already fat-adapted.
The study doesn't tell you how to become fat-adapted, but as I mentioned earlier, it's not a passive process. You don't simply stay low-carb for 4 weeks and you're there. It requires exercise intense enough to stimulate new mitochondria to grow in your muscle cells. The signal for them to grow is thought to be reactive oxygen species. That comes from anaerobic metabolism.
So the signal for fat-adaptation in muscles is HIGH intensity exercise while you're low carb.
Once you have that adaptation, then you'll burn fat at a higher rate at ALL intensities, with the peak at around 70% VO2max (moderate intensity).0 -
annalisbeth74 wrote: »@wabmester - Interesting. According to that calculator, my HR for my last couple of runs was on the high side for this. It creates an interesting dilemma. I want to continue to push myself when I run, so that I can get in better shape and hopefully one day go back to half marathons, but I also don't want to miss the peak fat oxidation window. Maybe a mixture of high intensity and medium intensity workouts? I think I need to read the study again.
@Sunny_Bunny_ I'll have to check that out. I've never heard of keto talk.
Do listen. A must-hear for those learning the ketogenic WOE.
0 -
baconslave wrote: »ruffneck813 wrote: »
Eat carbs to grams.
Eat protein range to grams (for LBM, height, and activity level).
Fill what's left of your intake (calories) with fat.
Don't cut out fat, as you should get plenty of healthy fats in your diet, but you don't need to go overboard on it if you aren't hungry.
That's what I thought I was supposed to be doing for this. I've been following really well I think and keeping the carbs below 20 grams total most days and always below 30. I just got worried when I saw the post saying the body is going to burn fat taken in gram for gram before fat that is already present.0 -
The study doesn't tell you how to become fat-adapted, but as I mentioned earlier, it's not a passive process. You don't simply stay low-carb for 4 weeks and you're there. It requires exercise intense enough to stimulate new mitochondria to grow in your muscle cells. The signal for them to grow is thought to be reactive oxygen species. That comes from anaerobic metabolism.
So the signal for fat-adaptation in muscles is HIGH intensity exercise while you're low carb.
Once you have that adaptation, then you'll burn fat at a higher rate at ALL intensities, with the peak at around 70% VO2max (moderate intensity).
Thanks for explaining how to get my muscles to become fat-adapted better. I wasn't really sure about that process and this simplified it for me and also gives me a goal to go after. I've started doing interval runs on days in between lift days. Hopefully that will push the fat burn higher.0 -
I've been amazed at the muscle definition I see without any working out! No telling how it would look if I had been able to work it! I love what I see though! First picture was a couple of months ago, the second is from today!
0 -
Lookin' strong, @Karlottap!
I can't resist speculating a little bit on this stuff. We hear a lot of "don't run" advice for a few reasons, but probably the biggest reason is that running doesn't build strength (just endurance). In fact, long-distance running burns muscle, and that's why you see a lot of frail-looking marathon runners.
One thing this study documents is that the LC athletes had more muscle and less body fat than the HC athletes. Why would that be? Let's do the math!
Looking at one data point, LC guy burns 1.2 g/min fat and 0.5 g/min carb. That's 12.8 kcal/min.
HC guys burns 0.6 g/min fat and 1.8 g/min carb. That's 12.6 kcal/min, so about the same calorie burn.
So in a hour, LC guy burns about 72g fat and 30g carbs. HC guy burns 36g fat and 108g carbs.
Where do those carbs come from? Glycogen stores. And those stores are constantly being refilled. How are they refilled? Well these guys aren't eating during their run, so it's all from gluconeogenesis.
The LC guy is going have a lot more free glycerol. They even measured it. 2-3X as much glycerol as the HC guy. And they found that the glycogen restoration rates were similar in both groups.
When glycerol is lower, the other substrate for GNG is protein.
That tells me that running while low carb is profoundly different that running while high carb. Not only do we burn more fat, but we preserve more muscle mass. Potentially a lot more.0 -
I've been amazed at the muscle definition I see without any working out! No telling how it would look if I had been able to work it! I love what I see though! First picture was a couple of months ago, the second is from today!
I noticed muscles in my arms today too lookin good girl! 0 -
@wabmester great explanations thank you. This will keep me motivated on w2d2 of c25k0
-
Thank you @wabmester! Your explanations help this make a lot more sense and give me something else to begin to focus on as I get closer to starting maintenance.0
-
I think Keto Talk podcasts are excellent! @Sunny_Bunny_ knows her stuff!0
-
Lol. Thanks! I know my podcasts!MerryOne00 wrote: »I think Keto Talk podcasts are excellent! @Sunny_Bunny_ knows her stuff!
I often listen to the same ones several times if I found it very enlightening or maybe difficult to understand on the first pass.
0 -
One of my LC sisters does Carbnite (she's 3 years going strong) and she suggested against cardio work outs. She said she does 1HIIT/week on her carb night morning, 2x week light weights (I'm guessing hand weights) and 1x/week bar weights. Also 1x week yoga/pilates.
I used to lift heavy but I'm nervous about starting up again so I've been sticking with cardio. This study seems to run contrary to her belief that distance and steady state cardio screws up your metabolism.
I'm trying to wrap my head around all the information which is confusing me from an understanding standpoint as all the seemingly contradictory information.0 -
DorkothyParker wrote: »One of my LC sisters does Carbnite (she's 3 years going strong) and she suggested against cardio work outs. She said she does 1HIIT/week on her carb night morning, 2x week light weights (I'm guessing hand weights) and 1x/week bar weights. Also 1x week yoga/pilates.
I used to lift heavy but I'm nervous about starting up again so I've been sticking with cardio. This study seems to run contrary to her belief that distance and steady state cardio screws up your metabolism.
I'm trying to wrap my head around all the information which is confusing me from an understanding standpoint as all the seemingly contradictory information.
Mark Sisson's new book actually gives a pretty good explanation - when we are doing steady state cardio, a lot of people are working too hard or not hard enough. There is a fat-burning zone, which occurs at a fairly low heart beat (approximately 220-age), and there is the anaerobic training zone, which you train at a high intensity/low duration (HIIT). Mark says that most athletes train in between, not getting any benefits and basically screwing themselves up instead. Not sure if this is 100% correct, but humans were designed to be persistence hunters, literally running their prey down, so it makes sense that long, steady cardio, when done correctly, should not have a deleterious effect on the body. That being said, I just like to run distances.0 -
The "metabolic damage" thing is usually about cortisol, isn't it? That may be different in LC vs HC. Cortisol seems to signal the liver to make more glucose (which you'll also need for the flight/fight response, which is why it's called the stress hormone). Obviously, LC runners need less glucose.
Personally, I think these guys are nuts to run 100 miles at a time, but at 3 miles a day, I doubt I'm doing any damage, and I haven't lost any muscle mass according to my scale. 0
