Histamines, inflamation and biohacking experiment starting
SamandaIndia
Posts: 1,577 Member
Folks if you have inflamation or potential food intollerances then a web site that my Doctor reffered me to that may be useful is
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
If context interests you. Here is where I am on my journey:
Dr and I know LCHF has hugely improved my energy levels and immunity. We also know I am negative for food intollerances that are easy to test in blood and I have a skin test scheduled for Tuesday.
After 5 mths LCHF, on my visit to the USA, I mostly asked for what I needed (like bacon strips as a side that I used as chip substitutes with my gaucomole) but I also had a few cappucinos not espressos and some suspect sauces. 5lbs gained in 10 days, I feel swollen, skin irritated and my sinus headaches are back. So what is the most likely suspect: histamine overload.
Dr recommended I stick with LCHF and make modifications so that I dodge histamines. For me the big changes are no bacon (cries), no avocado, no yoghurt, no cheese (especially my fave old dutch cheese), no spinach and no nuts. Rest fits with my existing LCHF plan. Sounds like me joining @FIT_Goat and meat feast with beef mince not bacon is a perfect starting point.
My doctor/nutritionist recommended this web site as a guide for next month of self experimentation:
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
Combining that web site and another 2 sites here is my summary on what not to eat:
Histamine-Rich Foods: do not eat these
Fermented alcoholic beverages, especially wine, champagne and beer. Fermented foods: sauerkraut, vinegar, soy sauce, kefir, yogurt, kombucha, etcVinegar-containing foods: pickles, mayonnaise, olives Cured meats: bacon, salami, pepperoni, luncheon meats and hot dogs Soured foods: sour cream, sour milk, buttermilk, soured bread, etc Dried fruit: apricots, prunes, dates, figs, raisins Most citrus fruits Aged cheese including goat cheese Nuts: walnuts, cashews, and peanutsVegetables: avocados, eggplant, spinach, and tomatoes Smoked fish and certain species of fish: mackerel, mahi-mahi, tuna, anchovies, sardines
Histamine-Releasing Foods: given my blood tests are negative I can have these but better to dodge them:
Alcohol Bananas Chocolate Cow’s Milk Nuts Papaya Pineapple Shellfish Strawberries Tomatoes Wheat Germ Many artificial preservatives and dyes
After a month resetting my histamine levels we will check symptoms and potentially re introduce small levels of nutrient rich foods like avocado and see how much I tollerate without symptoms. If anyone is interested then I will let you know how this goes.
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
If context interests you. Here is where I am on my journey:
Dr and I know LCHF has hugely improved my energy levels and immunity. We also know I am negative for food intollerances that are easy to test in blood and I have a skin test scheduled for Tuesday.
After 5 mths LCHF, on my visit to the USA, I mostly asked for what I needed (like bacon strips as a side that I used as chip substitutes with my gaucomole) but I also had a few cappucinos not espressos and some suspect sauces. 5lbs gained in 10 days, I feel swollen, skin irritated and my sinus headaches are back. So what is the most likely suspect: histamine overload.
Dr recommended I stick with LCHF and make modifications so that I dodge histamines. For me the big changes are no bacon (cries), no avocado, no yoghurt, no cheese (especially my fave old dutch cheese), no spinach and no nuts. Rest fits with my existing LCHF plan. Sounds like me joining @FIT_Goat and meat feast with beef mince not bacon is a perfect starting point.
My doctor/nutritionist recommended this web site as a guide for next month of self experimentation:
http://www.michiganallergy.com/food_and_histamine.shtml
Combining that web site and another 2 sites here is my summary on what not to eat:
Histamine-Rich Foods: do not eat these
Fermented alcoholic beverages, especially wine, champagne and beer. Fermented foods: sauerkraut, vinegar, soy sauce, kefir, yogurt, kombucha, etcVinegar-containing foods: pickles, mayonnaise, olives Cured meats: bacon, salami, pepperoni, luncheon meats and hot dogs Soured foods: sour cream, sour milk, buttermilk, soured bread, etc Dried fruit: apricots, prunes, dates, figs, raisins Most citrus fruits Aged cheese including goat cheese Nuts: walnuts, cashews, and peanutsVegetables: avocados, eggplant, spinach, and tomatoes Smoked fish and certain species of fish: mackerel, mahi-mahi, tuna, anchovies, sardines
Histamine-Releasing Foods: given my blood tests are negative I can have these but better to dodge them:
Alcohol Bananas Chocolate Cow’s Milk Nuts Papaya Pineapple Shellfish Strawberries Tomatoes Wheat Germ Many artificial preservatives and dyes
After a month resetting my histamine levels we will check symptoms and potentially re introduce small levels of nutrient rich foods like avocado and see how much I tollerate without symptoms. If anyone is interested then I will let you know how this goes.
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I would be interested in any updates on how this worked for you.
I'm not totally convinced. I have very bad allergies. In fact I am the only one in my family with allergy. I grew up as a really picky eater. I would have normally avoid almost all the food on the list. I always assumed it was cuz my family ate everything and I didn't -was why I got the allergies. But I'm always interested in anything to get rid of our reduce my allergies.0 -
Great thread. Following along.0
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Will be very interested to see how this goes for you! Good luck!0
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I know a few people who felt MUCH better eating a low histamine diet. I wish you a bunch of success in it too!0
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Boy, is that a list! I hope you feel the effects of missing these and be able to isolate which ones are causing you grief.
I just finish a book which is really interesting and very, very readable, about microbes in our gut and how they affect everything, from the ability of babies to survive to risk taking behaviours and, of course, allergies and food intolerances.
If you are interested:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23013953-gut
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Thxs @dasher602014 for book tip. I have spent the last 5 months taking probiotics n doing a specific diet to improve gut biome. Since I am still getting symptoms which appear to be associated with eating certain foods, this is the next step.0
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Feeling less headache today and better alertness, however husband claims I was moody. I had BPC at 9am and nothing else until 230pm. I wasnt hungry but apparently I was a bit of a sensitive soul, after 2pm, even after I ate my fried beef mince lunch. Had a little more mince for dinner but not hungry.0
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Always interesting to see how amino acids can contribute to allergies...in particular histamine & tryptophan. Take it with a grain of salt however; there is a huge difference in Tolerance vs. Histamine reaction ranging all the way up to Allergic reaction/Anaphylaxis...i.e. you can have dose-dependent GI symptoms from Avocados in large enough quantities but handle small amounts just fine. Your Wheal-flare testing should give you better insight on what you can & can not tolerate2
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I highly recommend this site http://lowhistaminechef.com She has done tons of research and interviews with experts. She isn't low carb but I think you could learn a lot. She herself was super sick due to histamine intolerance and now she is in a much better place in terms of health.2
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Great site. Thxs! @sofiajp.
3 days finished:
I am feeling good on a mostly beef mince, eggs, butter n coconut oil diet. Health improving. My face has a less red splotchy appearance, my sinus headaches are reduced and digestive system appears to be slow but functional. So far, so good
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Have you looked into amines as well as histamines? The Fail Safe Diet talks about the freshness of meat being a concern:
http://www.failsafediet.com/the-rpah-elimination-diet-failsafe/minimising-amine-formation-in-meat-dairy-and-eggs/2 -
@kirkor wow, that looks amazing. Thanks! Feeling a level of frustration having to micro manage my diet. I bought a steak last night that was vacuumed pack. Thought I was doing a good thing eating just beef in butter. So much to consider as we narrow down to what my body does not like. BTW skin test n blood test negatives so not air born allergens, dust, cat, dog, horses, pollen or other "usual suspects".1
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1 kilo lost in 3 days (record rate... real???).
No obvious food or air borne allergens (including dairy). No rheumatoid arthritus. Exciting day. Thus we are down to food intollerances, and our most likely suspect, histamine.
Vodka is distilled not fermented so if I insist on playing n partying with my 9 girlfriends who are meeting in KL. Which after over a year apart- yes indeed I do... apparently, vodka lime soda or G&T are prefered over champagne, white or red wine. Glad I got that clear 2 -
In my recent experience, I read 4 books on the gut microbiome, countless Youtubes, soundclouds, etc. I dove headlong into probiotics, fermented foods, Kombucha, milk kefir, water kefir. I got a histamine reaction, rash/hive like, bloating. But, after looking into this, the remedy was not to abstain from these items, but to keep using them... the reaction is because these good probiotics are changing (for-the-good) your gut microbiome. The new microbiota are taking over and kicking out the bad. When the bad ones die, they leave behind a messy toxin that gives the histamine reaction.
My result is after a month, all my rash and itchy, bloating is completely gone. To stop eating all those foods would be like this scenario:If you recommended to a friend to eat a low carb/ketogenic diet and after a few days he/she got the "keto flu", and he/she stopped doing the diet and went back to the SAD low fat diet. This is the same! You don't avoid the diet for a temporary problem, but trudge ahead. They call this a, "Herxheimer Reaction". Its like an innoculation/vacination, you will have a small reaction to a vaccination, but after it over, you're the better for it.
So, don't do an unsustainable eliminate-everything diet! Just back off a little. Kombucha and milk kefir come to mind. Or fermented pickles, sauerkraut....just eat smaller quantities. Increase them on every other day. Soon you will be inoculated and fit to eat anything...
There is one other dynamic, and that would be gut dysbiosis, which also exasebates the histamine reaction, solutions involve eat certain foods like bone broth and avoiding certain foods like "FODMAPS" (google).
I highly recommend you read the book, "GAPS Diet". Or at least see the author's one hour plus YouTube video.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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Ditch the tonic @SamandaIndia as it will either be full of sugar or if 'diet' artificial sweeteners that will cause grief. Gin & soda is kinda dull though. Straight up good quality vodka over ice. Tequila is also distilled (usually twice) and needs to be "100% agave" on the label or else you are getting 'mixto' with added cane sugar for the alcohol. If you want a shooter, do a Fire & Ice (tequila & vodka) lol!0
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canadjineh wrote: »Ditch the tonic @SamandaIndia as it will either be full of sugar or if 'diet' artificial sweeteners that will cause grief. Gin & soda is kinda dull though. Straight up good quality vodka over ice. Tequila is also distilled (usually twice) and needs to be "100% agave" on the label or else you are getting 'mixto' with added cane sugar for the alcohol. If you want a shooter, do a Fire & Ice (tequila & vodka) lol!
Figured the GnT was a bit dodgy, but was a lesser of evils. As @DittoDan points out feels like an eliminate everything diet. Thxs for tips @canadjineh and @DittoDan -i will watch video and look for book! Not sure about fire n ice shot! Barely any alcohol for 6 months so I am hoping to achieve more soda than alcohol 0 -
I think club soda tastes just like tonic. If you order a gin and soda you literally have to watch them make it. They will make it with tonic about half the time I've found... I always get a few limes to kick it up a bit. The gin matters too, though I haven't tried many, I like Tangueray pretty well but think Bombay Sapphire goes down a bit easier.
I also like silver tequila with soda and lots of lime. If you salt the rim, it's a decent margarita replacement if you get enough lime.1 -
Interesting! Let us know how it goes for you.
Re the GAPS diet mention, I have several friends who have tried that and swear by it.0 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ if soda tastes like tonic to you, you've already had too much to drink, lol. Soda just tastes like fizzy water but tonic has a distinctly bitter flavour. If you want the real thing without corn syrup here's a link, but not easy to get. Proper cinchona bark and more natural ingredients: fever-tree.com/. Worth it if you like tonic water. I am obviously NOT a "creamy, fruity, sweet drink" girl. If it doesn't contain tonic or grapefruit then I drink it straight up instead.0
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Just wanted to suggest Hendricks gin if they have it. It's more floral.1
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6 mths lchf, no sweeteners, careful label reading to minimise sugars, now 6 days of meat.
Last night, working back late on high stress deliverable with small team. We had a short break for left over farewell treats (which I ignored earlier in morning). I was fatigued n felt any food would be useful to enable me to cycle 15km home 30 mins later.
Ate part of a coconut macaroon. Had a flavoring added like almond. 20 mins later, sinus headache, watery eyes, dry throat, sneezing. Excited that I found something with such a spectacular reaction, 6 hours after any other food n no other envirionmental changes. Now the question is what on earth is in that macaroon because most recipes are simple. Will ask admin where they purchased it n go from there. Getting closer to the source of my food intollerance.
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SamandaIndia wrote: »6 mths lchf, no sweeteners, careful label reading to minimise sugars, now 6 days of meat.
Last night, working back late on high stress deliverable with small team. We had a short break for left over farewell treats (which I ignored earlier in morning). I was fatigued n felt any food would be useful to enable me to cycle 15km home 30 mins later.
Ate part of a coconut macaroon. Had a flavoring added like almond. 20 mins later, sinus headache, watery eyes, dry throat, sneezing. Excited that I found something with such a spectacular reaction, 6 hours after any other food n no other envirionmental changes. Now the question is what on earth is in that macaroon because most recipes are simple. Will ask admin where they purchased it n go from there. Getting closer to the source of my food intollerance.
It seems funny to cheer that you found something that made you sick, but HURRAY! Keep me informed. I am thinking my homemade coconut treats for making my lips hurt. I am suspecting sweeteners. You have already been there. I am tempted into a week of meat. Same journey but you are further along the road than I am. I hope you figure it out for both our sakes!
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Albert Heijn coconut macaroon. Most likely: coconut cookies: ingredients: 33% grated coconut, sugar, glucose-fructose syrup, wheat flour, free-range egg protein, raising agents (E450, E500), acid (citric acid), natural flavor. Produced in a factory where nuts are processed. Same allergens as below less likely version.
Will check if basic version, if so:
Sugar, 27% coconut, farm EGG - egg white, glucose-fructose syrup, wheat flour, potato starch, sunflower oil, dried glucose syrup, acid (citric acid), raising agent (E503), natural flavor. (So egg, gluen n wheat allergens)0 -
I'm not really allergic to anything, but I recently discovered that high volumes of citric acid cause my throat to swell. It happened after I drank a sugar free lemon drink when I was out running errands last week. I was blaming the artificial sweetener as its not one I've been exposed to much, if at all. But then the same thing happened after I bought a jar of lemon slices preserved in lemon juice and citric acid. I usually toss fresh lemon slices in my water but I was feeling lazy. After going through 4 litres of water with the jarred lemon slices, the same thing happened to my throat and the higher than normal citric acid exposure seemed to be the only commonality.
That experience gave me a whole new perspective on what people who have genuine food allergies must go through. I don't think those of us fortunate enough to not have to worry about our food realise how difficult it must be, especially for parents whose children have allergies.
Hope you find the culprit @SamandaIndia1 -
Thxs @PaleoInScotland I do hope for an E number not a big everywhere ingredient like wheat or eggs. Suspect not eggs as straight eggs are fine. Your citric acid experience is interesting. Wow.0
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This looks like a fabulous experiment. @SamandaIndia I hope things get easier for you as you go!! The thing that jumped out at me was the potato starch, but I think that's because I was researching nightshades yesterday. I never was able to determine if my migraines were triggered by histamines or not, as they disappeared with my medication change (increased dosage). But, I've been having crazy sinus headaches since I had to switch back to a lesser quality allergy medication a couple months back due to crazy cost increases... I'm hoping I'm not back to histamine he!!, as I call it... Way too many things to consider changing/eliminating/restricting...0
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PaleoInScotland wrote: »I'm not really allergic to anything, but I recently discovered that high volumes of citric acid cause my throat to swell. It happened after I drank a sugar free lemon drink when I was out running errands last week. I was blaming the artificial sweetener as its not one I've been exposed to much, if at all. But then the same thing happened after I bought a jar of lemon slices preserved in lemon juice and citric acid. I usually toss fresh lemon slices in my water but I was feeling lazy. After going through 4 litres of water with the jarred lemon slices, the same thing happened to my throat and the higher than normal citric acid exposure seemed to be the only commonality.
That experience gave me a whole new perspective on what people who have genuine food allergies must go through. I don't think those of us fortunate enough to not have to worry about our food realise how difficult it must be, especially for parents whose children have allergies.
Hope you find the culprit @SamandaIndia
Mom had to make my food from scratch when I was a baby because I reacted to citric acid. If I got tomatoes on my face (they're almost always preserved with citric acid), I'd break out in a rash. We suspect I may still have issues with it, but haven't tested to be sure yet.1 -
Hmmm citric acid, interesting. Could be that. New data:
I am home today from traveling n grabbed a few ingredients from freezer n fridge so suspect high histammine levels. 15 mins later: Currently having a Sneezing fit. Sore throat.
Ingredients today are
Cherry tomatos, Egg, Bacon, Olives, Olive oil
Then Chia sèed, almond milk, cinammon (dessert pud)
Next to isolate the suspect foods n eat one at a time. Common ingredients with coconut macaroons: histammines, citric acid, fructose and eggs.
Doubt eggs as I can eat boiled eggs and have no issue. Will let you know. Sneezing in the name of science.
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Experimenting with 3 fresh very small coconut macaroons today. Same grocery source as prior but little not medium sized and these were fresh. Not as spectacular reaction of medium macaroon but Sinus n exhaustion did kick in.
My husband asks why do I bother? Just don't eat them. Me, I wanted to check histammines (freshness) and If they were ok maybe I can find which items in the small vs medium macaroons trigger the hay fever like response, then maybe I will not be stuck with eating bpc, beef mince and white fish forever. I am not @FIT_Goat and love variety.0 -
following this thread, @SamandaIndia ... hoping you get the answers you need. (and that it ISN'T all bpc, mince & white fish, lol)0
