Skinny people shouldn't give fat people weight loss advice.
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canadjineh wrote: »@Cryren8972 Perhaps that FB page was discussing a weight loss plan that was also lower in fat, then in maintenance they add more fat? Just a possibility as it is a related WOE to LCHF.
That's what it was. However, when I studied the diet that they were following, outlined by Phinney, he also recommended a high percentage come from fat. He DID recommend so many grams of protein, but he kept the fat at over 60%. He very clearly states that the LC diet should be moderate in protein and high in fat. He EVEN says, 25% of your calories should come from protein. So I never did understand their "snubbery". LOL!0 -
tinywonder25 wrote: »I can't remember what documentary it was but it followed a group of obese children. My heart broke watching them eat all the low fat fake diet food and then going to the doctor to show that they either hadn't lost any weight or had actually gained weight! It is devastating what the food industry has done to the last 2 generations of children.
That sounds like "fed up". It had a very similar effect on me.2 -
Did any body see the fit 2 fat 2 fit interview of Drew Manning?0
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walker1world wrote: »Did any body see the fit 2 fat 2 fit interview of Drew Manning?
No....was it interesting?0 -
Saw tv special on the "Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit" and one interesting point made by Drew Manning is prior to gaining 70 pounds, he never craved high calorie desserts, but after eating them to gain the weight, although once again slim, he craves sugar. This is a type of proof that the eating combo of fat & sugar creates cravings, whereas only eating the healthy fats eliminates cravings. Our WOE with LCHF is excellent to eliminate wanting that unhealthy sugar.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/health/drew-manning-fit2fat2fit-lessons/
@Cryren89723 -
Saw tv special on the "Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit" and one interesting point made by Drew Manning is prior to gaining 70 pounds, he never craved high calorie desserts, but after eating them to gain the weight, although once again slim, he craves sugar. This is a type of proof that the eating combo of fat & sugar creates cravings, whereas only eating the healthy fats eliminates cravings. Our WOE with LCHF is excellent to eliminate wanting that unhealthy sugar.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/health/drew-manning-fit2fat2fit-lessons/
@Cryren8972
OK, But how long does it take after starting LCHF to not have those cravings? I've only ever lasted about 2 months before binging on carb/fat. That 2 months was very valuable, but I would like to at some point be able to not crave such foods at all, which would prevent the occasional huge binge.0 -
@midwesterner85
My cravings disappeared immediately and have not returned, have only been doing this WOE since mid January as a New Year's resolution, about 6 months in- hopefully things don't change.
What healthy fats do you eat & are you eating enough of them? When on LC, how low are you keeping your carb level?
It might be helpful if someone else answers who has been consistent with LCHF for many years.0 -
@midwesterner85
My cravings disappeared immediately and have not returned, have only been doing this WOE since mid January as a New Year's resolution, about 6 months in- hopefully things don't change.
What healthy fats do you eat & are you eating enough of them? When on LC, how low are you keeping your carb level?
It might be helpful if someone else answers who has been consistent with LCHF for many years.
Just looking over the last 6 days, it has been an average of 60g average net carbs per day... but that includes a big carb day. So looking at the last 4 days, it has been 30g average per day net carbs.
Not sure how you are definiing "healthy fats," but most of my fat consumption comes from animal products (chicken, pork, beef, HWC, and sometimes cheese or eggs). I get some fat from nuts, but not regularly. Maybe that is the answer... I do have some of the Bulletproof MCT oil that just arrived and I haven't tried it yet (haven't even opened up the box).0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »@midwesterner85
My cravings disappeared immediately and have not returned, have only been doing this WOE since mid January as a New Year's resolution, about 6 months in- hopefully things don't change.
What healthy fats do you eat & are you eating enough of them? When on LC, how low are you keeping your carb level?
It might be helpful if someone else answers who has been consistent with LCHF for many years.
Just looking over the last 6 days, it has been an average of 60g average net carbs per day... but that includes a big carb day. So looking at the last 4 days, it has been 30g average per day net carbs.
Not sure how you are definiing "healthy fats," but most of my fat consumption comes from animal products (chicken, pork, beef, HWC, and sometimes cheese or eggs). I get some fat from nuts, but not regularly. Maybe that is the answer... I do have some of the Bulletproof MCT oil that just arrived and I haven't tried it yet (haven't even opened up the box).
@midwesterner85 I do not know how different you are from me, but honestly, 18 months in and I still have cravings periodically. Usually it is based on stress, hormonal shifts, or neglecting my fats. Also, I did not get very good control at first (the first 3-6 months) until I dropped to keto levels (I started around 50 grams daily). Once I did that, I found that I could increase carbs through veggies. But, with my level of insulin resistance, eating the wrong thing can easily trigger cravings for me at any time. But, I crave sugar/junk the LEAST when I keep my fats and sodium up. If I'm under 100 grams of fats a day, or under maybe 3,500 mg of sodium a day, it's not long before I'll start craving all manner of carbs! I don't now if that helps any...
EDITED TO ADD: Oh, and to get my snacking urge under control, I had to incorporate some mid-day intermittent fasting. I ate a huge breakfast and at least 1 day per week, would skip lunch, then eat a normal dinner. Skipping breakfast didn't work, but my biggest snack times were 1-3 hours after lunch, so that was what I targeted. Got my fasting insulin and A1C to both drop!
Reflecting back on this - and noting that a spiking in my insulin from eating the wrong things, the insulin/hormone issue is probably what keeps the ongoing cravings alive for me... It frequently hit walls every so often, as well, where I just want to faceplant. I tend to employ fat bombs for that, so as less damage than a junk-filled faceplant. The lesser of 2 evils?3 -
@midwesterner85
Yea, i'd kinda go with the suggestions from @KnitOrMiss:
1. increase the healthy fats , eat one avocado everyday and put Kerry Gold butter on your vegetables and on top of the less fat cuts of meat, don't forget olive oil..add it to foods as well.
2. Be sure you are getting enough salt,try the pink Himalayan salt, very pure.
btw--i have nut allergies and coconut allergies so no MCT or almonds,cashews etc..and i still get plenty of of the HF part of our WOE.
If you want to open your diary for a couple of hours, we could maybe take a look.2 -
OK, I opened my diary. Sat. was the high carb day and is unusual... long story, but don't pay attention to Sat. When you get to days with no logging and before, that was moving. Prior to the non-logged days is also atypical for a week or 2.0
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Just at a glance, on days when you max out your carbs per your goals, and you eat under on your fats, you are making your percentages skewed. You should be going toward whatever your percentages are for each meal, and specifically for your daily totals. So if you're under your fat by 50 grams (or 30%), you should consume less protein and less carbs to balance. Because otherwise, from the looks, you're percentages of carbs per meal can get up to a 1:1 gram ratio to fat, which is not good for satiety and ongoing cravings.
Also, when you do have an out of balance portion of carbs, they seem to be things like peanut butter, cottage cheese, ketchup, and pudding, that are often parts of real sugar or corn syrup, rather than carbs from veggies (aside from some of the salads and such). As they're not generally under the "treat blood sugar" section, are these something you could replace with more real foods that are less sugary or sweet??
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »Just at a glance, on days when you max out your carbs per your goals, and you eat under on your fats, you are making your percentages skewed. You should be going toward whatever your percentages are for each meal, and specifically for your daily totals. So if you're under your fat by 50 grams (or 30%), you should consume less protein and less carbs to balance. Because otherwise, from the looks, you're percentages of carbs per meal can get up to a 1:1 gram ratio to fat, which is not good for satiety and ongoing cravings.
Also, when you do have an out of balance portion of carbs, they seem to be things like peanut butter, cottage cheese, ketchup, and pudding, that are often parts of real sugar or corn syrup, rather than carbs from veggies (aside from some of the salads and such). As they're not generally under the "treat blood sugar" section, are these something you could replace with more real foods that are less sugary or sweet??
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.
The peanut butter is one of those things that I think of as a fat, but yes, it has a sneaky large amount of carbs. So I grab a jar of peanut butter and start eating it... weight before and after... and then I see how many carbs that was for just a little snack and it ends up being a huge amount. So yea, I should cut back and eventually limit peanut butter.
Cottage cheese is usually at a local restaurant (too small for nutrition facts, as it is only 1 location and chains with fewer than 10 locations don't have to report nutrition facts), and the nutrition facts are borrowed from what I think are similar items from other restaurants. The cottage cheese is a substitute for the standard side (fries).
When I'm logging ketchup, it is a topping for a burger or hot dog. I'm sure there are lower carb ketchups, and I'll have to remember to look at labels next time I'm buying it.
The pudding is something that was on sale and is delicious and is sold as sugar free, but there are still something like 6-7g of carbs per cup (if I remember correctly). And of course it is not easy to eat just 1 cup anyway. So the solution is to not buy more of that, I guess.
But then if I cut out all of these small amounts of carbs that are adding up, how long should it take before cravings for heavy carb foods subside?0 -
I suppose it's something like people who are rich due to an inheritance telling poor people how to budget. It's hard to understand or explain something you haven't had to work on.
I was naturally thin until a bad thyroid and two pregnancies. Now weight is an issue for me. I ate whatever I wanted and was thin back in the day. Now, if I eat sugar and grain, I crave tons and tons more sugar and grain. My body didn't respond like that when I was young and thin. It was a simple matter of "eat whatever you want so long as CICO" for me.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Just at a glance, on days when you max out your carbs per your goals, and you eat under on your fats, you are making your percentages skewed. You should be going toward whatever your percentages are for each meal, and specifically for your daily totals. So if you're under your fat by 50 grams (or 30%), you should consume less protein and less carbs to balance. Because otherwise, from the looks, you're percentages of carbs per meal can get up to a 1:1 gram ratio to fat, which is not good for satiety and ongoing cravings.
Also, when you do have an out of balance portion of carbs, they seem to be things like peanut butter, cottage cheese, ketchup, and pudding, that are often parts of real sugar or corn syrup, rather than carbs from veggies (aside from some of the salads and such). As they're not generally under the "treat blood sugar" section, are these something you could replace with more real foods that are less sugary or sweet??
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.
The peanut butter is one of those things that I think of as a fat, but yes, it has a sneaky large amount of carbs. So I grab a jar of peanut butter and start eating it... weight before and after... and then I see how many carbs that was for just a little snack and it ends up being a huge amount. So yea, I should cut back and eventually limit peanut butter.
Cottage cheese is usually at a local restaurant (too small for nutrition facts, as it is only 1 location and chains with fewer than 10 locations don't have to report nutrition facts), and the nutrition facts are borrowed from what I think are similar items from other restaurants. The cottage cheese is a substitute for the standard side (fries).
When I'm logging ketchup, it is a topping for a burger or hot dog. I'm sure there are lower carb ketchups, and I'll have to remember to look at labels next time I'm buying it.
The pudding is something that was on sale and is delicious and is sold as sugar free, but there are still something like 6-7g of carbs per cup (if I remember correctly). And of course it is not easy to eat just 1 cup anyway. So the solution is to not buy more of that, I guess.
But then if I cut out all of these small amounts of carbs that are adding up, how long should it take before cravings for heavy carb foods subside?
For me, @midwesterner85 , cutting out those things, and most sweeteners like in diet sodas, and they cravings ease off fairly quickly. It really depends on your gut's health. For me, it was between 4-10 days, depending on the different times I've gone off plan and gotten back on. Like right now, I'm going back through everything because I ate very poorly over my vacation, and I have the mental WANT for chocolate and stuff, but it's not hard to ignore. It's not the physical I NEED IT NOW craving crap.
For me, finding a sweetener that didn't trigger cravings (only one so far is SweetLeaf Stevia), and then only sweetening to TOLERANCE (like the least sweet I can eat something at), not to TASTE (where my taste buds have a ... MOMENT...)...really helps.
Also, with that mousse cup - I would have cut it half with whipped heavy cream or heavy cream with almond/coconut/cashew milk/cream. With it, you still get all the chocolatey goodness, but it's cut away from the level of sweetness that the SAD supports. I do this ALL THE TIME with sugar-free things, tbh...so it would work with the jello, too, just whip or some cream, or pour it over, or cream cheese or something... Maybe it like a jello cheesecake combo with a tiny bit of vanilla...
The peanut butter, you could do the same. Did you say you were cutting dairy? I thought I read that somewhere. If not, you could mix the PB 1/2 and 1/2 with cream cheese or a combo of cream cheese and butter...not adding any sweetener. This would up the fats significantly without upping the carbs much. You could also whip or stir in heavy cream and make it a "faux fluff.:
Cottage cheese, you're just getting the natural sugars from the dairy, so it's not as bad. In fact, it can be used as the base for making a fruit whip (just puree it and frozen or fresh fruit, to taste). Overall, this isn't bad...just something to watch on quantity - and definitely better than Fries! And as long as you are eating fats with the rest of the meal, this isn't bad.
For ketchup on a burger and stuff, I tend to do a mayo/mustard/ketchup blend. I was a ketchup and mustard girl through and through before low carbing, so this works well for me. I tend to use a 4:2:1 ratio or close to it. So if I do 2 TBSP (6 tsp) mayo, I do 2 tsp or so of mustard, and 1 packet or 1.5 tsp of so of ketchup. I mix it together, and it's enough ketchup that I enjoy the taste, but not enough that it's straight sugar. The mayo ups my fat in that ratio too, so it doesn't trigger cravings (I so far just have regular ketchup - I haven't bought any yet or made any...)...
Let me know if this makes sense. For me, rather than getting rid of all the things I enjoy, I figure out ways to keep them in my dietary plan in a way that is more friendly to my plan - hit the flavors, cut the sugars, up the fats, etc.1 -
And don't forget adding fructose to EVERYTHING...0
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midwesterner85 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »Just at a glance, on days when you max out your carbs per your goals, and you eat under on your fats, you are making your percentages skewed. You should be going toward whatever your percentages are for each meal, and specifically for your daily totals. So if you're under your fat by 50 grams (or 30%), you should consume less protein and less carbs to balance. Because otherwise, from the looks, you're percentages of carbs per meal can get up to a 1:1 gram ratio to fat, which is not good for satiety and ongoing cravings.
Also, when you do have an out of balance portion of carbs, they seem to be things like peanut butter, cottage cheese, ketchup, and pudding, that are often parts of real sugar or corn syrup, rather than carbs from veggies (aside from some of the salads and such). As they're not generally under the "treat blood sugar" section, are these something you could replace with more real foods that are less sugary or sweet??
Just my 2 cents off the top of my head.
The peanut butter is one of those things that I think of as a fat, but yes, it has a sneaky large amount of carbs. So I grab a jar of peanut butter and start eating it... weight before and after... and then I see how many carbs that was for just a little snack and it ends up being a huge amount. So yea, I should cut back and eventually limit peanut butter.
Cottage cheese is usually at a local restaurant (too small for nutrition facts, as it is only 1 location and chains with fewer than 10 locations don't have to report nutrition facts), and the nutrition facts are borrowed from what I think are similar items from other restaurants. The cottage cheese is a substitute for the standard side (fries).
When I'm logging ketchup, it is a topping for a burger or hot dog. I'm sure there are lower carb ketchups, and I'll have to remember to look at labels next time I'm buying it.
The pudding is something that was on sale and is delicious and is sold as sugar free, but there are still something like 6-7g of carbs per cup (if I remember correctly). And of course it is not easy to eat just 1 cup anyway. So the solution is to not buy more of that, I guess.
But then if I cut out all of these small amounts of carbs that are adding up, how long should it take before cravings for heavy carb foods subside?
The kinds of foods that you're mentioning are exactly the kinds of things that trigger cravings. Things with sugar and sugar free sweets especially always make me feel like I want more sweets or just to eat in general.0 -
@nicoleggates
My story exactly, until about 10 years ago, i guess my body burned it up, i was a lovely size and it must have been CICO..not that any counting was being done.
It was all fun until my jeans wouldn't fit, now with the horrible leg pain, i could lose weight or have a surgery or begin injections of "synvis"...happy to say that with the LcHf, the weight is just dropping .....no cravings and this girl doesn't even try to create "LC" versions of the foods i once ate..i don't even want them. I woldn't consider reworking a recipe to make it fit Lc macros.
But, i'm 6 months in----so hopefylly someone "skinny" from LcHf who has been at this for years can say if this can "go on for years".
Just like @KnitOrMiss there are many days when i'm not even hungry. The HF part of this WOE gets all the credit.
How long for you?nicoleggates wrote: »I suppose it's something like people who are rich due to an inheritance telling poor people how to budget. It's hard to understand or explain something you haven't had to work on.
I was naturally thin until a bad thyroid and two pregnancies. Now weight is an issue for me. I ate whatever I wanted and was thin back in the day. Now, if I eat sugar and grain, I crave tons and tons more sugar and grain. My body didn't respond like that when I was young and thin. It was a simple matter of "eat whatever you want so long as CICO" for me.
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I've only been doing low carb for a couple of weeks, but for the first time I don't have cravings and find it easy to keep within my calorie goal.
I'm not doing LCHF though, just low carb without worrying about fat. So far this is going well, and I can try LCHF at some point if things stop working. I have a few things I can adjust if need be within the realm of low carb, but I definitely think keeping away from grains and sugars is the way for me. It just isn't as simple as CICO for me. If the CI are accompanied by foods that make me hungry, I will keep on CI-ing.3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Saw tv special on the "Fit 2 Fat 2 Fit" and one interesting point made by Drew Manning is prior to gaining 70 pounds, he never craved high calorie desserts, but after eating them to gain the weight, although once again slim, he craves sugar. This is a type of proof that the eating combo of fat & sugar creates cravings, whereas only eating the healthy fats eliminates cravings. Our WOE with LCHF is excellent to eliminate wanting that unhealthy sugar.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/05/health/drew-manning-fit2fat2fit-lessons/
@Cryren8972
OK, But how long does it take after starting LCHF to not have those cravings? I've only ever lasted about 2 months before binging on carb/fat. That 2 months was very valuable, but I would like to at some point be able to not crave such foods at all, which would prevent the occasional huge binge.
My cravings went away almost immediately.1
