Keto summit
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I liked Dan Pardi's interview.... concerning beneficial changes to the hypothalamus and lowering of the ghrelin level rise after a ketogenic period of eating followed by a HFLC similar time period followed by a 6x longer period of mainly MUFA type Mediterranean diet as maintenance. Repeating the cycle seems to work for long term fat loss (not just weight loss (recomping)) and fairly easy maintenance. Also a discussion about long chain saturated fatty acids (meat & dairy) and common inflammatory responses to these that affect fat loss and brain health.
Best from 40th minute on, as earlier in the program the moderator and Dan often get off on a tangent and the thread gets tangled.2 -
Last hours of Keto Summit free replay! My favorites from memory are:
Eric Westman Troubleshooting through stalling on fat loss on keto.
Catherine Crofts on why testing insulin is so important and probably should be mandatory.
Chris Masterjohn on nutrient density etc.
Also interesting:
Luis Villasenor on fat loss, body comp and training on keto.
Phil Maffetone's on HR and increasing aerobic output on lowcarb.
Honorable mention: Thomas Seyfried and Richard Feinman.
Overall I found the podcasts very variable in info density. Some were Def more actionable than others. It's interesting to note that keto/lowcarb has already diversified into several branches. The experts are very much advocating what works for them personally or in their client demographic. So if you're looking to keto as a therapeutically tool vs cancer, that keto diet and lifestyle looks quite different from a keto tailored for high performance athletic performance. Pure fat loss without any fixing of underlying health issues sounds like a total other beast as well.
Villasenor on the most difficult challenge with clients: (loosely paraphrased) "They wanna lose weight, but they don't really wanna change their habits." This sums up why I got overweight and why I always have to stay awake concerning my habits if I wanna stay slim over time.
All in all I'm very satisfied with the Keto Summit and learned a lot!
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I also just love Dr. Jason Fung to bits
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canadjineh wrote: »I also just love Dr. Jason Fung to bits
I know right?!?
Have you heard his talk from the 2015 LCHF convention in South Africa? He's dropping F-bombs and everyone just cracks up. Lol
I shouldn't enjoy that as much as I did!3 -
Foamroller wrote: »Last hours of Keto Summit free replay! My favorites from memory are:
Eric Westman Troubleshooting through stalling on fat loss on keto.
Catherine Crofts on why testing insulin is so important and probably should be mandatory.
Chris Masterjohn on nutrient density etc.
Also interesting:
Luis Villasenor on fat loss, body comp and training on keto.
Phil Maffetone's on HR and increasing aerobic output on lowcarb.
Honorable mention: Thomas Seyfried and Richard Feinman.
Overall I found the podcasts very variable in info density. Some were Def more actionable than others. It's interesting to note that keto/lowcarb has already diversified into several branches. The experts are very much advocating what works for them personally or in their client demographic. So if you're looking to keto as a therapeutically tool vs cancer, that keto diet and lifestyle looks quite different from a keto tailored for high performance athletic performance. Pure fat loss without any fixing of underlying health issues sounds like a total other beast as well.
Villasenor on the most difficult challenge with clients: (loosely paraphrased) "They wanna lose weight, but they don't really wanna change their habits." This sums up why I got overweight and why I always have to stay awake concerning my habits if I wanna stay slim over time.
All in all I'm very satisfied with the Keto Summit and learned a lot!
I'll be honest, I learned a lot from Maria Emmerich (I guess I'd never listened to her before for some reason) and Chris Masterjohn, but the research Dr. Catherine Crofts shared about the sincere dangers of continuing high blood sugar scared me to my core. I've struggled with my IR and such, and it seems all the more critical to do things now, before I do any more damage than I already have done...4 -
I agree about the insulin resistance. I have been using fasting more in an attempt to reduce mine. I am sure mine has been high for many, many years and now I have prediabetes and high blood pressure.1
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »Last hours of Keto Summit free replay! My favorites from memory are:
Eric Westman Troubleshooting through stalling on fat loss on keto.
Catherine Crofts on why testing insulin is so important and probably should be mandatory.
Chris Masterjohn on nutrient density etc.
Also interesting:
Luis Villasenor on fat loss, body comp and training on keto.
Phil Maffetone's on HR and increasing aerobic output on lowcarb.
Honorable mention: Thomas Seyfried and Richard Feinman.
Overall I found the podcasts very variable in info density. Some were Def more actionable than others. It's interesting to note that keto/lowcarb has already diversified into several branches. The experts are very much advocating what works for them personally or in their client demographic. So if you're looking to keto as a therapeutically tool vs cancer, that keto diet and lifestyle looks quite different from a keto tailored for high performance athletic performance. Pure fat loss without any fixing of underlying health issues sounds like a total other beast as well.
Villasenor on the most difficult challenge with clients: (loosely paraphrased) "They wanna lose weight, but they don't really wanna change their habits." This sums up why I got overweight and why I always have to stay awake concerning my habits if I wanna stay slim over time.
All in all I'm very satisfied with the Keto Summit and learned a lot!
I'll be honest, I learned a lot from Maria Emmerich (I guess I'd never listened to her before for some reason) and Chris Masterjohn, but the research Dr. Catherine Crofts shared about the sincere dangers of continuing high blood sugar scared me to my core. I've struggled with my IR and such, and it seems all the more critical to do things now, before I do any more damage than I already have done...
After listening to these wise folks, any suggestions on the most concise pitch to make to a physician who just doesn't want to order insulin tests?
(My docs tend to say, "it won't alter the health plan we already have in place.")0 -
I agree about the insulin resistance. I have been using fasting more in an attempt to reduce mine. I am sure mine has been high for many, many years and now I have prediabetes and high blood pressure.
@batlott the problem with that for me is that apparently with my current adrenal difficulties, ongoing thyroid issues, and ongoing life stresses, apparently fasting was too much stress, as was super restrictive keto, and it actually hurt my health somewhat. It really doesn't help that I'm stubborn, and so rather than reevaluate and find a new path, I tried to force my way through. I didn't adjust and I didn't compensate. So now I'm having to heal before trying again.
So I guess honestly, that is probably my biggest takeaway - try it for 3 months. If you don't get at least most of the expected results, reevaluate, adjust, and try again.
Get testing.
Getting healthy tends to uncover more than just our formerly thin and healthier selves. It unveils the damage we have done along the way.
You cant fight a gunfight with a knife, or vice versa. We need the right tools for the right job.
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After listening to these wise folks, any suggestions on the most concise pitch to make to a physician who just doesn't want to order insulin tests?
(My docs tend to say, "it won't alter the health plan we already have in place.")
OK, so it's another way to measure progress on the "healthy plan we already have in place." Or for me to determine if I need a new doctor!4 -
@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.3 -
Foamroller wrote: »@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.
Thanks, @Foamroller!
This method would seem to assume that fasting (as opposed to random) triglycerides and glucose are relatively constant in the short haul. ?? At this point, my fasting glucose is confined to a range that wouldn't make a lot of difference in ln(x), but I'm not sure about triglycerides - I'll have to look into it (but at least it's cheap and easily obtained....).
Thanks again.
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Wow, this is cool! Using this formula on my recent test results, it shows I've gone from an 8.7 to an 8.4 since I started LCHF and exercising more.
I also learned that even though I have no clue what "ln" or "natural log" mean, my phone's calculator has that function when I put it in landscape mode. My smartphone is much smarter than I am when it comes to math!4 -
@Foamroller - I came across an article that compares TyG favorably to the HOMA-IR model, but it cautions,
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51211706_TyG_index_performs_better_than_HOMA_in_a_Brazilian_population_A_hyperglycemic_clamp_validated_studyThe TyG index may not be used in subjects with extremely high triglyceride levels or in those taking medications that lower mainly triglycerides.
Hmm. I consume plenty of Omega-3 fatty acids (and take Glucophage to control blood glucose)....... ??1 -
@Foamroller - I came across an article that compares TyG favorably to the HOMA-IR model, but it cautions,
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/51211706_TyG_index_performs_better_than_HOMA_in_a_Brazilian_population_A_hyperglycemic_clamp_validated_studyThe TyG index may not be used in subjects with extremely high triglyceride levels or in those taking medications that lower mainly triglycerides.
Hmm. I consume plenty of Omega-3 fatty acids (and take Glucophage to control blood glucose)....... ??
Scientifically one can never prove a hypothesis "right" , one can only eliminate by finding evidence that speak against. Even more so in a multivariate OPEN system like the body. As such, one should never assume numbers in a medical study are the absolute truth for everyone. Medical sudies are only an indication valid under restraints in said study. If you can accept that the method above is a proxy for insulin levels instead of insulin testing, then you'll also have to accept it's limitations. We KNOW that BS, FBG, Isulin and FI ebbs and flows. What's important is the TRENDING, even with other variables fuzzing the numbers. I still think that just going by body symptoms like lack of hunger and mental clarity etc. are far easier and quicker to adjust WOE and lifestyle than an endless chasing of quantifiable data for us amateurs. There's simply too many variables at play at the same time with compounding and synergistic effects in order to do a true elimination procedure. We still don't know so much about how the body works, we arguably know more about the moon than what's really going inside us. I do understand that for some people measuring data is necessary though. It's all about cost and benefit equation.4 -
Foamroller wrote: »@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.
So, because I'm MO, this calculation doesn't apply to me, @foamroller?
Because I am insulin resistant, but I am below the threshold stated above for women, though not by leaps and bounds or anything. My trigs used to be much higher, and my glucose has been steady for as far back as I have numbers.
EDITED TO ADD: I'm not taking any medications that affect my cholesterol or blood glucose numbers.
Prior to low carb or losing any real weight, I was around 8.74.
A few months on low carb was 8.7 (8.6982)...
My lowest trigs this past October made it 8.08...0 -
Foamroller wrote: »@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.
I am wondering if I did this correctly, I used the scientific calculator on my PC, put in my fasting triglyceride and fasting glucose numbers, divided by 2, hit the log function key and came up with 0.30102999566398119521373889472449.
Since it is talking about 8.x numbers, I doubted my outcome. I used the Ede's reference . I used my last test results from my dr. in June.
I am not diabetic, my A1C tests are below 5.5 consistently but not much, that is why I wondered about this formula's number.
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retirehappy wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.
I am wondering if I did this correctly, I used the scientific calculator on my PC, put in my fasting triglyceride and fasting glucose numbers, divided by 2, hit the log function key and came up with 0.30102999566398119521373889472449.
Since it is talking about 8.x numbers, I doubted my outcome. I used the Ede's reference . I used my last test results from my dr. in June.
I am not diabetic, my A1C tests are below 5.5 consistently but not much, that is why I wondered about this formula's number.
I am guessing you have a problem with your your math somewhere. First, your BG should be somewhere between 80-100 and triglycerides are hopefully under 150 and even on the very low end would likely be at least 30. Taking the smallest of each, you would have 80 x 30 = 2400. Divide that by 2 and you have 1200. The ln of that is 7.09.2 -
Could be from using the "log" function (which may require entering a base as well as a value) instead of "ln". ln(1200)=7.091
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »@RalfLott. I understand your battle in getting the doc to take insulin test. Here the government pays it so the docs are very conservative in taking "unnecessary "tests. But there might be another proxy that could work, besides the symptom of no hunger.
Many of the people who comment on Dr Jason Fung's blog posts are T2D. Often they have good insights. I found this gem buried under there in this post:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/failure-blood-glucose-paradigm/
Ben Fury September 29, 2016 | Reply
All you need is fasting triglycerides and glucose to guesstimate insulin resistance fairly accurately.
“A novel criterion for identifying metabolically obese but normal weight individuals using the product of triglycerides and glucose”
SH Lee et al, 2015
“The TyG index is a simple marker that correlates well with the degree of insulin resistance measured by hyperinsulinemic-euglycemic clamp studies.”
TyG index Method:
Multiply fasting TG and BG.
Divide by 2
Run Natural Log (ln) [NOT (log)]
Men with values over 8.82 and women with values over 8.73 are most likely to be insulin resistant and have double the chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the future.
Handy PDF with the formula from Dr. Georgia Ede:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/insulin-resistance-tests.pdf
We're all frontiers in this kind of thing. It's not perfect, but we have to make ado with what we currently got.
So, because I'm MO, this calculation doesn't apply to me, @foamroller?
Because I am insulin resistant, but I am below the threshold stated above for women, though not by leaps and bounds or anything. My trigs used to be much higher, and my glucose has been steady for as far back as I have numbers.
EDITED TO ADD: I'm not taking any medications that affect my cholesterol or blood glucose numbers.
Prior to low carb or losing any real weight, I was around 8.74.
A few months on low carb was 8.7 (8.6982)...
My lowest trigs this past October made it 8.08...
What's "MO"? There are lots of things that affect FBG, FI and triglycerides, so as a proxy it HAS a lot of caveats. I honestly don't know if the method is any worthwhile for outliers. But the trending is very important.
Again, I think that if making a detailed food diary with symptoms, f.ex. rating subjective feeling of hunger every day/meal is more useful for most of us. Why? Because according to D'Agostino, BHB is appetite supressing. By logic if the body is good at both creating and using ketones, you're good at using fat as energy and therefore insulin has to be lower. In opposite if you're hungry very often, I would guess insulin (and ghrelin) is higher at fasting baseline than desired. Maybe I'm completely wrong at this line of argument, so feel free to correct me.
I'm also not a medical doctor, so there's that.
Edit: I'm sorry I can't help you. I'm only a self taught amateur that has spent way too much time trying to piece together how keto, lowcarb and IF can help me and the beloved.0 -
@foamroller - MO is morbidly obese - yes, despite how much I've lost, I still qualify as morbidly obese. I read somewhere up in the main article that it mainly applies to not heavily obese people.
And my insulin levels are in the range of what they have been, even at my heaviest. Low carb has not made my glucose go down, but it was not problematic in the first place (I guess my obesity really has been in the process of protecting me from diabetes!). My triglycerides however, those have improved dramatically.
And with the built in insulin resistance and binge eating tendencies, "subjective feeling of hunger" is something still elusive to me. Like all morning yesterday, I felt "kinda" hungry, but I was able to fast through without much effort. Then "more hungry" at lunch, wanted all the food...made a reasonable portion and it was almost too much food. Then last night for dinner, made reasonable portions, and at double what I expected despite waiting in between because I was still really hungry.
BHB?0
