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Daily check-in for keto friends... volume 3

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  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
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    fitzma1121 wrote: »
    Hi, everyone. Just joined this group hoping to ask some questions. I started keto a few weeks ago, and only found MFP 2 weeks ago. I used an online calculator to determine my macros and so far am comfortable with the guidelines. I'm satisfied after meals, with no desire to snack, my energy is good, and I'm down 7 lbs.
    I'm wondering about times when I can't hit all my macros exactly. I tend to get a bit OCD about numbers, and when faced with a situation where I'm short 3 grams of protein, but anything I have on hand to add to hit that number will push me a few grams over in fats, I play with the diary forever, trying to make choices that fit, but I'm wondering if I'm making this too complicated.
    In the above example, is it better to hit protein target even if fat is slightly over, or hit fat total even if protein is slightly under? Do 2-3 grams really matter either way? How close to these numbers do I really have to be? I'm religious about my carbs, because I don't want to fall out of ketosis.

    @fitzma1121

    I know this is going to sound hard if you're OCD...BUT... No, 2-3 grams really don't matter, whether fats, proteins, or carbs. For 3 grams of fat, that's roughly 29 calories. for 3 grams of protein or carbs, that's 12 calories. Since calorie science is imperfect, you're well within the margin of error.

    Carbs should be a relatively firm limit, but not so much that you freak out over 3 grams of carbs... This can be anywhere from a "zero" carb plan to 50 grams of carbs a day (or more if you time them with workouts) to maintain ketosis. Most folks start around 20 grams of carbs (which is based on a medical ketogenic diet, for seizure control and such) and work up towards finding the highest amount of carbs they can have (lots of green veggies!) while still losing weight, usually ending up around 50 grams of carbs (which is based on a nutritional ketogenic diet - for metabolic repair and health improvements/weight loss).

    Protein should be a MINIMUM GOAL RANGE to maintain your existing muscle mass, support bodily functions, and allow your skin and such to slowly shrink with you, when possible. Limits to protein may come from kidney issues, damaged metabolism, etc. It is nearly always preferable to go OVER on protein. This is a good source of satiety, as well as the "safe" place to go over on calories.

    Fats, especially while in the fat burning phases of your dietary plan, should fill in to satiety. Since your calorie deficit is filled in by burning stored body fat, your ENTIRE CALORIE DEFICIT should come out of this category (not spread out - it doesn't make any sense that you get to eat less carbs or protein just because you want to lose weight, does it?!) since you'll be replacing any deficit with burned body fat. Fats fill in to satiety, and later, once body fat is burned, they will be your main source of energy (they will be the whole time, just some will come from storage, some from diet - the BODY decides how much)...so how much fat you need to eat will increase as your weight goes down, as will your deficit shrink, eventually. Phinney and Volek have a great chart showing this. If you aren't hungry, you can nearly always stay under on fats. There will be few limited exceptions, but it won't hurt to go over here or there on fats, because it will just mean you're burning less body fat on any given day...


    So no, you don't need to hit those macros exactly. They're all a moving target... If you're hungrier on any given day, eat more, and start with protein, if you can. If you're less hungry any other day, eat less - but again, aim for that protein first if you can. The body can convert anything it needs from other macros, but some of those conversions are more efficient than others. If the body is way under on protein for several days in a row, it will metabolize your muscles for an easy protein source...hence why we try to stay at a minimum set protein level when we can.

    Hunger naturally rises and falls - stress, sleep, activity, hormones, and so many factors affect your calorie needs each day. You'll be in the same ballpark usually, but you will be hungrier some days and less so on other days. Start listening to your true hunger signals again, when you can!

    Hopefully this isn't too overwhelming! I'm sure I missed something, so everyone else can fill in any details I missed. If any of this doesn't make sense, let us know, and someone can describe it in another way so that you can understand it better. Good luck!

    Oh, and - if you cannot stand seeing red numbers on your diary, make sure to edit all your totals to be a bit higher than what you need so that you don't have to see them. If they don't bother you, then set them at your targets! :)
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
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    Marcelynh wrote: »
    I've been MIA due to ... life and vacation.

    This is what I was doing all last week.
    https://youtu.be/kk5f2vq-l9U

    Came home to celebrate my 40th wedding anniversary, Mother's Day and the announcement of Grandbaby #14 on the way!

    Did well with the diet over vacation. We had no choice of food but the chef of the boat worked with us and gave us sauteed veggies and lots of butter and didn't stress that we refused the pasta and starchy foods. She also made sure there were snacks on hand special for us after a dive. The other divers all got cookies and muffins but we had our nuts so we were happy. Being on a boat for 7 days and no open access to food helps. lol Glad to be home though even if there is more food temptation here.

    Reading back and catching up. Everyone looks great!

    Happy 40th Wedding Anniversary, @Marcelynh
    And happy new grandbaby to be!

    I hope you had a blast - and that chef sounds incredible!!!
  • 4031isaiah
    4031isaiah Posts: 1,253 Member
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    Congrats on the NSV!
  • xDaniDragonflyx
    xDaniDragonflyx Posts: 201 Member
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    @skctilidie Woo hoo! Congrats on your NSV!
  • Marcelynh
    Marcelynh Posts: 974 Member
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    @ skctilidie

    Love the NSVs!
  • tynanmir5675
    tynanmir5675 Posts: 2 Member
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    Hey! I started the Keto diet on 09MAY2018 and for the most part it has been going very well. I am doing Keto to hopefully help with my PCOS and weight loss. Common with many women who have PCOS, I carry weight around my mid-section, so I am hoping to see a difference in my waist/hip ratio as a result of this diet.
    So, I started eating Keto on a Wednesday, and that following Sunday morning I could tell I was experiencing the "Keto flu" and my body had made the metabolic shift from burning carbs to fat for fuel. Oh my was that an unpleasant feeling! My muscles felt super weak, I was exhausted, headache, and very irritable. My husband had run out to purchase a Keto electrolyte replenisher powder called Ultima (they come in small, individual packets, and he found them at Sprouts grocery store) when I was feeling that awful. I had the Ultima drink (lemonade flavor) and a few sliced strawberries, and within an hour or so I felt SO much better! I highly recommend these electrolyte drinks on this diet, and if you can be prepared with them before you make that initial plunge into ketosis I think it would ease a lot of the "flu" symptoms. I have stayed in some degree of ketosis (ranging from mild to large) ever since, and I stay within 1,500 calories everyday (I target 1,300 for weight loss though).

    I am 152.5lbs today, down from 155lbs when I started 12 days ago, and I am looking to lose at LEAST 20lbs total. Any seasoned keto-ers who could tell me if 2.5lbs in 12 days when just starting the diet is good progress? Considering how restrictive/extreme the diet is, I feel I should have lost more, but that may just be American in me, wanting everything fast, fast, fast!

    I have to say though, I genuinely have not felt hungry on this diet, however, I have had cravings. The cravings are more palate-related or textural though. Like, I would LOVE to have any type of juicy fruit! So all those summer time peaches, mangoes, pineapple, etc at the grocery store this time of year are very tempting. I haven't really missed bread, potatoes, or pasta...but on my first cheat day, I am soooo having a slice (or 3). Cheat day!? Yes, I do plan on having a cheat day maybe every 3 weeks or so (longer if I can). My research shows that while it does kick you out of ketosis, it does help many keto-ers stick with the diet. And through fasting and getting back on the keto diet, most can get back into ketosis within 24-36 hours.

    The biggest challenge with keto I think is nailing the macros ratio. I was finding it impossible to eat as much fat as I needed to while keeping my protein consumption down. As many of you have probably read through your research, protein consumption on keto should be moderate at the most, because if your body identifies protein as a major source of fuel, it will burn protein/muscle mass. So I was resorting to consuming MCT oils only at some points during the day (and that's not very tasty). However, I stumbled upon Perfect Keto prodcuts and their MCT Oil Powder in chocolate flavor has saved me completely! An easy and super delicious way to get your fat grams up without increasing your protein. I swear guys this is so delicious! It tastes like a super, decadent chocolate milk, and it goes great in shakes too.

    Anyhow, I would love to hear everyone's feedback! What have been your greatest challenges on Keto? How did you overcome them? What do you love about Keto? What are your favorite recipes and foods on Keto? Any tips?

    Thanks for reading/listening ;-)
  • skctilidie
    skctilidie Posts: 1,404 Member
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    Today it’s time for me to get back on track. I ate some non-keto friendly snacks at a party Saturday because that’s what there was to eat and we’d been here far longer than I’d expected. Another end-of-season party Sunday and I started off well, making sure we brought veggies and meat and cheese, but got caught up in hanging out with the other parents and without even thinking about it, having a couple of beers, chips, and a giant cookie. Oops.
    I told myself I was going to do better yesterday and start with a 20-24 hour fast. The fast was fine, but then there was a celebration at another of my kids
    extracurricular activities, I ended up being there way longer than planned (that’s been the theme of my last few days, hmm?) and ended up eating the cake and popcorn that was pushed into my hands.
    No more team parties, etc. for a while, thank goodness - only have to manage to do better kid2’s 6th grade graduation on Thursday.
  • xDaniDragonflyx
    xDaniDragonflyx Posts: 201 Member
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    Alright, I think I need some help. I've hit a stall in my weight loss. I know that my body needs to adjust, and I'm doing well at maintaining my weight, but I can't lose any more. This has been the past 3 weeks now.

    Do I lower my carb count? Or do I reset my macros? Anyone with any ideas would be helpful! Thanks!
  • 4031isaiah
    4031isaiah Posts: 1,253 Member
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    Yay!
  • elize7
    elize7 Posts: 1,088 Member
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    For me when I was successful at losing, I kept my carbs between 15 and 20, and also has to keep my cals pretty darn low. I am seriously insulin resistant though, and also am older with a lifetime of yo-yo dieting under my belt.
    I say juggle things around if you want to hurry it up or just be patient, watchful, and trust in the process for a bit longer if that feels right.
    Some swear by measurements that csn reflect changes when the scale doesn't move.
    Three weeks isn't all that long even if it seems like it.
    Good luck!
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,104 Member
    edited May 2018
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    tynanmir5675 wrote: »
    Hey! I started the Keto diet on 09MAY2018 and for the most part it has been going very well. I am doing Keto to hopefully help with my PCOS and weight loss. Common with many women who have PCOS, I carry weight around my mid-section, so I am hoping to see a difference in my waist/hip ratio as a result of this diet.
    So, I started eating Keto on a Wednesday, and that following Sunday morning I could tell I was experiencing the "Keto flu" and my body had made the metabolic shift from burning carbs to fat for fuel. Oh my was that an unpleasant feeling! My muscles felt super weak, I was exhausted, headache, and very irritable. My husband had run out to purchase a Keto electrolyte replenisher powder called Ultima (they come in small, individual packets, and he found them at Sprouts grocery store) when I was feeling that awful. I had the Ultima drink (lemonade flavor) and a few sliced strawberries, and within an hour or so I felt SO much better! I highly recommend these electrolyte drinks on this diet, and if you can be prepared with them before you make that initial plunge into ketosis I think it would ease a lot of the "flu" symptoms. I have stayed in some degree of ketosis (ranging from mild to large) ever since, and I stay within 1,500 calories everyday (I target 1,300 for weight loss though).

    I am 152.5lbs today, down from 155lbs when I started 12 days ago, and I am looking to lose at LEAST 20lbs total. Any seasoned keto-ers who could tell me if 2.5lbs in 12 days when just starting the diet is good progress? Considering how restrictive/extreme the diet is, I feel I should have lost more, but that may just be American in me, wanting everything fast, fast, fast!

    I have to say though, I genuinely have not felt hungry on this diet, however, I have had cravings. The cravings are more palate-related or textural though. Like, I would LOVE to have any type of juicy fruit! So all those summer time peaches, mangoes, pineapple, etc at the grocery store this time of year are very tempting. I haven't really missed bread, potatoes, or pasta...but on my first cheat day, I am soooo having a slice (or 3). Cheat day!? Yes, I do plan on having a cheat day maybe every 3 weeks or so (longer if I can). My research shows that while it does kick you out of ketosis, it does help many keto-ers stick with the diet. And through fasting and getting back on the keto diet, most can get back into ketosis within 24-36 hours.

    The biggest challenge with keto I think is nailing the macros ratio. I was finding it impossible to eat as much fat as I needed to while keeping my protein consumption down. As many of you have probably read through your research, protein consumption on keto should be moderate at the most, because if your body identifies protein as a major source of fuel, it will burn protein/muscle mass. So I was resorting to consuming MCT oils only at some points during the day (and that's not very tasty). However, I stumbled upon Perfect Keto prodcuts and their MCT Oil Powder in chocolate flavor has saved me completely! An easy and super delicious way to get your fat grams up without increasing your protein. I swear guys this is so delicious! It tastes like a super, decadent chocolate milk, and it goes great in shakes too.

    Anyhow, I would love to hear everyone's feedback! What have been your greatest challenges on Keto? How did you overcome them? What do you love about Keto? What are your favorite recipes and foods on Keto? Any tips?

    Thanks for reading/listening ;-)

    The protein being "moderate at the most" generally applies only if you're doing a MEDICAL Ketogenic diet, such as for neurological issues such as treating seizures, reducing migraines, etc. When you are doing a NUTRITIONAL Ketogenic diet - for weight loss, general health improvements, hormone balancing, etc., carbs are a hard limit, protein is a minimum range, and fats are needed only for satiety (until weight loss phase is complete, and then more may be needed for fuel).

    This is kind of a misnomer that's going around, that you have to have so much fat and have to limit protein. @Sunny_Bunny_ is firsthand proof that the protein is more important than the fat.

    I don't have the link readily at hand, but Phinney and Volek have a famous chart that is used to explain how the macros break down at each phase of weight loss - all the way up to maintenance, etc. The book is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living."

    Essentially, since burning body fat is what makes up the caloric difference between what our body needs and what we are consuming, it make sense that this is straight fat only, no micronutrients. Therefore, then entirety of your caloric deficit should come SOLELY FROM YOUR CONSUMED FAT CALORIES.

    If you don't know the difference, especially when starting - LIKE I DIDN'T - then you might reduce your carbs further with a deficit, and your protein, too...


    But your carbs should be a static number, whether 5 grams, 20 grams, etc., on up to 50 grams (even more sometimes with exercise on specific plans).

    Your protein should be a MINIMUM GOAL RANGE (medical condition excepting) to maintain your current lean body mass/muscles, and allow for your body to heal skin, build new muscle, etc. It's generally okay to go over this range. Protein is very satiating and satisfying. This number should go UP if you're more active or lifting more weights, etc., but it should not go down...from deficit or etc.

    Fats fill in the different to satiety, and sometimes later, once in maintenance, for fuel.


    Others might help this to make more sense...



    EDITED TO ADD: Yes, protein does create an insulin response, because that's what is needed to push the nutrients into the cells to be used properly. But this is a temporary and positive action - it allows the creation and maintenance of muscle/skin tone, etc. It isn't like the insulin released with excess blood glucose that can't find anywhere to go and creates insulin resistance, etc.
  • xDaniDragonflyx
    xDaniDragonflyx Posts: 201 Member
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    My cravings today were pretty bad until I got busy and forgot about them. It worked for a while, but then I went to Wendy's and got me a couple of sandwiches (bunless of course) and I feel satisfied. Giving up Mio is proving harder than I thought! But I thin it's working well for me.

    When you have a whoosh, do you know it? As in, do you pee a lot? Because I'm not drinking any more water than normal, but I am peeing like every hour on the hour today!
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
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    Also. Here’s the Phinney and Volek graphic mentioned
    6czqqjxnru78.jpeg
  • xDaniDragonflyx
    xDaniDragonflyx Posts: 201 Member
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    Feeling so discouraged right now... what if I can't get below 250? What if I'm stuck at this size for the rest of my life? :'(
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