Do you ever get mad at the CICO people?
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AmyG1982
Posts: 1,040 Member
On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
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You are not alone. I understand that yes we lose weight when we burn more calories than we take in. Got it, understand it. But it gets so old when it is repeated over and over.
And there is a handful or so that to me, are the ones who can be counted on to pop up and say it over and over. They come across very negative but would never see that way.
But to achieve a sustained lifestyle change, everyone needs to choose what works for them. That is the part I do not understand, that others are not willing to accept. I am low carb right around 50 total carbs per day. My percentage for carbs and fat pretty close to each other, with protein higher. I try to save some carbs for Sunday.
For myself one of the added bene's with low carb, I am a type 2 diabetic and have dropped two medications totally. And hoping within 6 months to get if not off to a really low dose of Insulin. Which if I was not on low carb would not have happened. I have switched to baking with almond flour, coconut flour, heck learned how to make chaffles.
The other one they like to gang up on, is if someone dares to mention how important it is to stay hydrated while working on losing weight.
They annoy me, but I decided I will not let them really get to me anymore. Just wait until they see our success stories!7 -
My husband is a calorie person and boy, does that get frustrating. I recently realized that my metabolism is very carb-sensitive and I have insulin resistance. So the more I learn about insulin resistance, the more I understand how and why we lose weight. I went to youtube and there are a lot of explaining videos about insulin resistance. Knowing that piece of information put the puzzle together for me. I've been able to drop 20 lbs since mid-September by avoiding carbs and intermittent fasting. I don't actually count carbs and I focus on getting lots of veggies, at least 7-10 cups every day. I learned to make keto breads with almond flour to get that bread fix.
All that now because I know what makes me release insulin, which stores fat.4 -
Please do not let this devolve into complaints about the main boards on here. The group rules prohibit such threads.
As for the CICO people, I think they get more irritated by me. LOL5 -
Please do not let this devolve into complaints about the main boards on here. The group rules prohibit such threads.
As for the CICO people, I think they get more irritated by me. LOL
I’m not really complaining about the main boards, just some of the very aggressive people on it. I just get frustrated that people jump all over you if you dare to believe that some things other than just CICO help you lose weight.2 -
I knew you weren't, it was just reminding everyone else to not let it become that.
The CICO people don't like me because I do not give them the time of day or even bother with their argument. They are going to do what they do, and believe what they believe. That has no bearing on my life.3 -
I think there are some good points here. We know there is a lot of evidence now about choosing the right diet for you-the one your body likes, the one you can maintain and stick to, etcetera. I agree, maybe it's best to stay off the main boards and cozy up over here a little more where we can be supportive for each other. We already know it works for us, why let naysayers try to sabotage us? Lol!3
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It may well be a case of CICO but I know that I crave less and therefore find it easier to eat less when I'm consistently eating a low carb diet.6
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I’m not sure how CICO works in my case. I’m trying to GAIN weight on keto! How do I do that?0
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My husband is a calorie person and boy, does that get frustrating. I recently realized that my metabolism is very carb-sensitive and I have insulin resistance. So the more I learn about insulin resistance, the more I understand how and why we lose weight. I went to youtube and there are a lot of explaining videos about insulin resistance. Knowing that piece of information put the puzzle together for me. I've been able to drop 20 lbs since mid-September by avoiding carbs and intermittent fasting. I don't actually count carbs and I focus on getting lots of veggies, at least 7-10 cups every day. I learned to make keto breads with almond flour to get that bread fix.
All that now because I know what makes me release insulin, which stores fat.
I’ve been wondering how insulin works to store fat. I keep seeing it around. Do I need more to gain weight?1 -
I’m not sure how CICO works in my case. I’m trying to GAIN weight on keto! How do I do that?
There is a group on Facebook called Ketogains that has good information on gaining muscle while doing Keto. There is also a Ketogains website. I lurk on the Facebook group. I would suggest you read all of the pin posts and read a few posts before asking them questions through the Facebook group. They are very passionate about their protocol. The members post pictures of their progress and it is quite impressive.
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OP, like with all things nutrition, there are a lot of people who only thing in strict numbers. The belief that if your estimated maintenance is XX calories, that it will always be that. Were people fail to realize is that other factors can adjust your energy output or even in some cases, your ability to metabolize nutrients. Often the people who have beliefs have never dealt with major health or medical issues.
I am sure it's no secret to anyone on this forum that I am a CICO but I have to argue with many that over suppression of calories can lead to metabolic adaptations and that periods of overfeed can get your metabolism working more efficiently. And in my case, I have seen increases in weight loss while consuming higher amounts of calories. This concept of eating more to lose more has boggled many people's mind.
Similarly, with people with medical conditions (PCOS, IR, Diabetes) you have to recognize that extended periods and overproduction of insulin will inhibit lipolysis which means you will burn less fat. This would lower energy output. So if one has IR, then lowering the impacts of IR by consuming lower to not carbs will maximize your ability burn fat.
I think were the biggest contention comes into play is when those with medical conditions extrapolate their issues and the evidence supporting their issues to the general populous. For example, insulin is not bad. It's a transport for nutrients in the cell and you can lose equally as much weight on a higher carb diet as you can on a low carb diet. What is bad is when your body overproduces insulin.
Having said all of that, I found through my current weight loss (vanity pounds) that keto has become fairly effective. What I realized is that to blunt my hunger, I either need to be very high carb (300g+) or around 30g. Anything in between sucked. And keto currently has allowed me to get leaner than my previous efforts under a higher carb approach. So while i lose 50 lbs and kept most of it off for almost a decade, I was never able to get lean enough for abs. Now, I am 2 lbs below my previous low weight and still going.
What does suck about keto is my gym performance has suffered. NOTHING beats a higher carb diet when it comes to lifting. And being fat adapted will never change that. The one thing that might is if I go to a TKD diet where I consume a bunch of gummy bears 30 minutes prior. But I wont' try that until after I lost my weight.
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I’m not sure how CICO works in my case. I’m trying to GAIN weight on keto! How do I do that?
Where are you struggling? And increase in calories, a good structured lifting program and consistency should help. You can run TKD if you want a potential increase in performance for lifting.2 -
Basically low carb is the only way I can make my calories in less than my calories out. Idk what my issue is but I can't do everything in moderation. I appreciate that many people can do it and have weight loss success and I wish I was that person but alas I am not. I'm not sure why some people get so hostile. It's like they panic at the thought of their carbs being taken away. lol
I quit keto and did a general eat whatever and count calories for the last year and I've gained a bunch of weight because on average I seem to eat at least 300 calories more a day just to be not hungry.4 -
While there's general truth to CICO, every body is different, and macros, nutrients, etc all play parts of the whole when combined with each individual. I think so many get adament about it, however, because there are SO many "newbs" out there who want to blame being over weight on anything other than the fact that ate too much food - so it's easiest to get on the CICO bandwagon and just argue that to avoid muddying the waters...
Personally, since switching to low carb, I've found it MUCH easier to stay in my calorie goals, and since I'm not going full keto, my workouts have been GREAT. I'm losing weight and getting stronger - I'm pushing myself (race season next year is going to be a lot more unforgiving than the gym right now), but outside of work stress, I'm actually feeling really good physically - and am lighter than any of my racing friends have seen me (still about 10-15 pounds over goal though).
In the past I was losing weight with CICO then seemed to plateau. Couldn't figure it out. Looked at my macros, added more fat back in to my diet (it was really low), and boom, same calories, and started losing again.
But, that's my body. I've had a few other friends report good results with low carb or keto as well, so I think it may be natural for many to be more satisfied and hence more likely to stick to the plan on a higher protein/fat diet. My calories range is the same, but I find it a million times easier to stick to the plan almost 100% of the time, and even the rare "maintenance" calorie day is just that - not a "fall off the wagon for days or weeks on end" situation.3 -
I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
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I think CICO is so ingrained from groups like WW's, etc that like other things in life we treat it as we may treat different types of religion and the dogma gets more attention than the underlying message. Getting emotional over the acts of others turns out to be bad for my own health.
Sure calories counts and that is while almost without fail all pounds lost come back bringing more pounds of fat with them.
At age 63 with health a wreck on a hunch I cold turkey cut out foods containing added sugars and or any form of any grain. Within 2 weeks my health started to reverse its 40 years of downhill side and 45 days in I lost my first pound and it has not come back yet.
When going LCHF I did not focus my calories but I changed the kind of calories I was putting into my body. That was when it was in my face that calories do count and in my case the kind of calories that I put in my face count as well.
With improving my health markers as my only goal with no weight loss goal at all I went on to loss 50 pounds. In hindsight when I changed my Way Of Eating I changed the balance of my gut microbiome and that was a major factor in reversing my health to the upside starting in Oct 2014.
Now I eat to improve the make up and balance of my gut microbiome and is why I am trying the tablespoon of honey, one entire apple and a banana daily.
There is nothing magical about food because two people can eat very different WOE's yet both WOE's work to give them better health and weight management.
After I came to understand that my gut microbiome was key in preventing many diseases leading to a premature death it has been a game changer in my life. My years of eating high carb AND high fat just about took me out. While death is certain living in a state of sickness was not required I learned in my case. While CICO is a factor in weigh management it is not the overriding factor in my case I now understand.
Learning about how my gut microbiome impacts my total health and risks of premature death was the understanding that has moved me back into the living group vs dying prematurely group. In 3 months I will turn 69 if still alive and I have more hope for a full life than at 59 or the age 49.
The Human Gut Microbiome – A Potential Controller of Wellness and Disease
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6102370/
"...A better understanding of human microbiome and how the commensal microbes interact with the host is undeniably useful to delineate the etiology and pathophysiological aspects of several human diseases, as well as developing a more effective therapeutic option to counteract the limitation of currently existing treatments..."6 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Bingo! same for me!0 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.0 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.3 -
If I see on the main boards people asking about low carb and or Keto how to find out more, asking for friends. I suggest them look into the lower carb group where there is lots of information and updates.
They then can decide if it works for them or not
I have found for me, that low carb works best. I totally get it is about Calories in VS Calories burned but the whole low carb does it for me. The big added bonus is it is how I am after decades winning the battle of keeping my blood sugars and other blood readings in great shape. And at the same time dropping weight that I so need to lose.
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