Do you ever get mad at the CICO people?
Replies
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nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.0 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.
Low fat just makes me sad. I love eggs and meat. And I prefer to get my fat with my protein, wether I am low carb or not; bacon, skin on chicken, various cuts of beef and pork.
I do eat chicken breast and lean beef, but usually in soup/stew applications where the cooking method keeps it from being dry.2 -
I
how this discussion is turning out. 3 -
I'm kind of mad at all you people who lose weight on keto...I do better controlling weight with LCHF but keto controls my migraines...<sigh>...I don't have any problems eating all the keto foods, and I definitely don't get any appetite suppressant out of it, so I can get quite chubby on keto if I'm not careful with my tracking...however, I'll take a migraine free life over anything else any day...there's no quality of life with migraines 5 days a week.12
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nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.
Low fat just makes me sad. I love eggs and meat. And I prefer to get my fat with my protein, wether I am low carb or not; bacon, skin on chicken, various cuts of beef and pork.
I do eat chicken breast and lean beef, but usually in soup/stew applications where the cooking method keeps it from being dry.
For me it varies. i prefer dark meats for birds but largely like the leaner meats for beef. I generally prefer a NY Strip vs a Ribeye. And if anything, i prefer to add fats.
The biggest thing i miss while i am following this diet are English Muffins, Kodiak pancakes and roasted potatoes.i used to eat them weekly. Oh and all the high GI fruits, especially kiwi, pineapple and apples.0 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.
Low fat just makes me sad. I love eggs and meat. And I prefer to get my fat with my protein, wether I am low carb or not; bacon, skin on chicken, various cuts of beef and pork.
I do eat chicken breast and lean beef, but usually in soup/stew applications where the cooking method keeps it from being dry.
For me it varies. i prefer dark meats for birds but largely like the leaner meats for beef. I generally prefer a NY Strip vs a Ribeye. And if anything, i prefer to add fats.
The biggest thing i miss while i am following this diet are English Muffins, Kodiak pancakes and roasted potatoes.i used to eat them weekly. Oh and all the high GI fruits, especially kiwi, pineapple and apples.
I do miss potatoes. Not pasta, not bread, was never a pancake or waffle person, but potatoes. When my son requested double baked potatoes for his birthday at the end of September, I improvised. After the first bake, when I was gutting the potatoes, I cleaned one extra well, down to the skin. Then I baked those 2 halves of skin with some cheese and bacon, served with sour cream. It cost me 12 or so carbs I think, but it was very good.
I made mashed turnips with a Ribeye Roast this weekend. It wasn't mashed potatoes, but I do like turnips, so at 10 carbs per serving it was a tasty side.
I think a lot of people who jump on the low-carb/keto train are too concerned about "substituting", when there are so many good things to eat even without the high carb options. I don't substitute bread or pasta really. Occasionally I do cauliflower where rice would be, but I like cauliflower and I don't expect it to be rice. That's a distinction that is important, I think.
But I digress.9 -
I have done mashed turnips as well. Actually I liked them better than mashing cauliflower. But like cauliflower roasted in oven with cheese last 5 to 8 minutes or so.
What I want to try next and will be a bit high, but not like mashed potatoes. Is mashed parsnips. We had it as a side when we were out to eat in September and it was fantastic. So I decided I would make with the cornish hens for Thanksgiving. I am one of the odd balls cannot stand Turkey.1 -
@maureenkhilde I always roast a chicken for thanksgiving because I am not a turkey fan either.
Love the tips here. Mashed parsnips and turnips! Gonna try them both. Thanks!2 -
nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.
Wow yes, I remember you from before (I've been away for a while until recently) and was always intrigued by your posts and thought I remembered you saying that you were a volume eater so low carb didn't work for you. That's interesting that you've ended up keto! Glad it's working for you. Curious how you ended up trying it, if you don't mind sharing.2 -
macchiatto wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »nicsflyingcircus wrote: »I find protein + fat is just more filling for me. I can eat 4 slices of bacon, 3 eggs + 2 whites and be full for multiple hours. On the other hand, I can put away half a box of cereal and be scrounging for food within 2 hours. Low carb helps me stick to a deficit. It's not magical freaking unicorn dust.
Calories are king. If you intake more calories than your body burns, you gain weight. If you intake fewer calories than your body burns, you lose weight. Fight me, bro!
Just an observation but protein + fats vs carbs isn't necessarily a fair comparison. Protein is highly correlated to satiety. Now if carb + protein < fats + protein that makes sense.
I see your point. My point was more that I find adhering to my deficit easier with few carbs and higher protein and adequate fat. I can lose weight with consuming higher carbs, but it is harder, not because carbs are inherently evil, but because I can eat them endlessly without really feeling my hunger is assuaged. It takes less willpower to avoid the carbs than it does to stick to my deficit while eating many carbs, but in the end, as long as I stick to my deficit, the weight is lost.
Oh I get it. Given my background, i am surprised how beneficial keto has been for me. I lost my first 50lbs through low fat. And i thought keto was going to be terrible since low carb was. Essentially, i have an optimal spot at high carb low fat and in keto. In between is a wasteland for me. Who would have thought.
Wow yes, I remember you from before (I've been away for a while until recently) and was always intrigued by your posts and thought I remembered you saying that you were a volume eater so low carb didn't work for you. That's interesting that you've ended up keto! Glad it's working for you. Curious how you ended up trying it, if you don't mind sharing.
Yea, low carb is still a wasteland. It seems that i need to either be very high carb or very high fat. The middle sucks.
I got started for two reasons. First, i needed to find something that would be beneficial for my wife and some of her hormonal issues. Two, i got to a point where moderation didn't work. For some reason, i couldn't get sub 173. And because of that, I wanted to try Keto as it was very strict. And third, i love personal experimentation. This allows me to provide greater insight into diets so i can help others from a different perspective. Its why i have tried IF, low fat, UD2.0, PSMF, and Paleo.
Interestingly enough, i have figured out how to each volume on Keto. I had to swap a lot of higher GI foods for low GI ones with some cooking jazz. But given i love to cook, i figured it out.
Before i went to Keto, i had a work trip to Hawaii, so i ate big.... And ended the trip at 180; this was mainly due to me eating pie 2x a day. Sooo worth it. As of today, i am at 169.7. so more than 3 lbs lower than my low weight since middle school (i was 175 during high school). Once i get lean enough (~160), i will bulk. My goal is 170-175 @10%.
ETA:Below are some of my creations.
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maureenkhilde wrote: »I have done mashed turnips as well. Actually I liked them better than mashing cauliflower. But like cauliflower roasted in oven with cheese last 5 to 8 minutes or so.
What I want to try next and will be a bit high, but not like mashed potatoes. Is mashed parsnips. We had it as a side when we were out to eat in September and it was fantastic. So I decided I would make with the cornish hens for Thanksgiving. I am one of the odd balls cannot stand Turkey.
I loooove parsnips, mmmmmmmm. I like to toss them in a little liquid bacon fat and roast them till the cut side is brown and toasty. Usually seasoned with just salt and pepper and maybe some granulated garlic.1 -
@psuLemon thanks for sharing. Your creations look amazing and that's impressive progress.
Is keto going well for your wife, too? It's definitely been beneficial for my PCOS. 0 -
macchiatto wrote: »@psuLemon thanks for sharing. Your creations look amazing and that's impressive progress. Is keto going well for your wife, too? It's definitely been beneficial for my PCOS.
For the most part, it has gone well. We are still educating her and working to reduce or eliminate making bad choices, especially when she goes out with friends. She struggles a bit with this internal battle. But she is down like 15 lbs which is good. So small steps. And given that she has gone through medical hell (like 8 surgeries in 8 years), any progress is good.2 -
just_Tomek wrote: »On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
So you get mad at science, physics to be specific? Cool.
Nope, I get mad at people like you who can’t believe there’s anything else to it... why do people on low carb or keto lose weight faster if it’s all just CICO? (I eat the same MFP calories and on a high carb diet I lose 1-2 lbs/ week, low carb I lose 2-3...)
I get mad at people who think they're smarter than doctors and scientists who agree that while calories are important there are other factors to consider as well.
I get mad at people who can’t just move by a post they disagree with and instead have to make fun or belittle people who belive something else or who’ve had something else work for them.
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Mod Hat
No drama, please.
The eyes of the Baconslave are upon you.
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just_Tomek wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
So you get mad at science, physics to be specific? Cool.
Nope, I get mad at people like you who can’t believe there’s anything else to it... why do people on low carb or keto lose weight faster if it’s all just CICO? (I eat the same MFP calories and on a high carb diet I lose 1-2 lbs/ week, low carb I lose 2-3...)
I get mad at people who think they're smarter than doctors and scientists who agree that while calories are important there are other factors to consider as well.
I get mad at people who can’t just move by a post they disagree with and instead have to make fun or belittle people who belive something else or who’ve had something else work for them.
Yes. But this is working for you because of CICO. No matter the diet. The laws of physics will still apply.
Then why do people on low carb lose so much more weight?
I’m not saying you don’t ever need to pay attention to calories, I’m saying there can be more to losing weight than just CICO and it’s frustrating that people jump all over anyone on the boards who dares mention low carb, keto, issues with sugar or fasting as a way to lose weight.
I personally lose weight 2-3x faster on low carb using the same MFP calculated calories so there is more to it than just CICO.0 -
just_Tomek wrote: »On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
So you get mad at science, physics to be specific? Cool.
Nope, I get mad at people like you who can’t believe there’s anything else to it... why do people on low carb or keto lose weight faster if it’s all just CICO? (I eat the same MFP calories and on a high carb diet I lose 1-2 lbs/ week, low carb I lose 2-3...)
I get mad at people who think they're smarter than doctors and scientists who agree that while calories are important there are other factors to consider as well.
I get mad at people who can’t just move by a post they disagree with and instead have to make fun or belittle people who belive something else or who’ve had something else work for them.
I would be careful of using anecdotal evidence. There are a plethora of factors that could cause you to lose faster on a keto or low carb diet. Some of those could be nutrient deficiencies caused by a higher carb diet or hormonal issues that are mitigated on keto.
Long term studies overall do not support keto being more effective at fat loss. Short term, yes but a lot of that can be contributed by glycogen/water loss. Metabolic ward studies also don't support your assertion. Where the studies i have seen supports Keto/lchf > low fat is from ad libitum eating, which is also often from higher levels of protein.
None of this disproves CICO. It does show there are many factors that could impact the CO part of the equation. And for record, i am losing a bit fast on keto currently, even with some moderate overfeeding. Its also why i support the eat more to lose more movement.4 -
just_Tomek wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
So you get mad at science, physics to be specific? Cool.
Nope, I get mad at people like you who can’t believe there’s anything else to it... why do people on low carb or keto lose weight faster if it’s all just CICO? (I eat the same MFP calories and on a high carb diet I lose 1-2 lbs/ week, low carb I lose 2-3...)
I get mad at people who think they're smarter than doctors and scientists who agree that while calories are important there are other factors to consider as well.
I get mad at people who can’t just move by a post they disagree with and instead have to make fun or belittle people who belive something else or who’ve had something else work for them.
Yes. But this is working for you because of CICO. No matter the diet. The laws of physics will still apply.
What laws are physics are you talking about? Do they have anything to do with our gut microbiome that can be a factor in our metabolic calorie burn rate that may vary from person to person because no two gut microbiomes are alike we are told.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »just_Tomek wrote: »On the main boards any time someone talks about keto/low carb people jump all over them and instantly shout that CICO is the only thing that matters and keto/low carb is just a way for people to stay under their calories...
It annoys me lol. Science can’t actually agree on how people lose weight but the people on the boards are so “positive” it’s the only thing that matters.
But, I know for myself, I lose weight faster on keto. I can consume the same amount of calories on keto as I do on CICO and lose 2-3x the amount of weight. People everywhere are dropping more weight on low carb but still, if you voice that opinion on the main boards you get ganged up on...
Anyone else get frustrated by that? Lol maybe I just need to stay off the main boards... It just annoys me that people can benefit from keto/low carb in a million ways but they get told not to bother cuz it’s all CICO that matters.
So you get mad at science, physics to be specific? Cool.
Nope, I get mad at people like you who can’t believe there’s anything else to it... why do people on low carb or keto lose weight faster if it’s all just CICO? (I eat the same MFP calories and on a high carb diet I lose 1-2 lbs/ week, low carb I lose 2-3...)
I get mad at people who think they're smarter than doctors and scientists who agree that while calories are important there are other factors to consider as well.
I get mad at people who can’t just move by a post they disagree with and instead have to make fun or belittle people who belive something else or who’ve had something else work for them.
Yes. But this is working for you because of CICO. No matter the diet. The laws of physics will still apply.
What laws are physics are you talking about? Do they have anything to do with our gut microbiome that can be a factor in our metabolic calorie burn rate that may vary from person to person because no two gut microbiomes are alike we are told.
Gale, metabolism is a part of CO. And given the research of gut microbiome is still in its infancy, it doesn't really provide much insight into anything. It certainly doesn't disprove CICO.1 -
I don’t understand why people who do not believe a low carb lifestyle can be helpful and beneficial take the time to join a closed group that is specifically created to support people who DO find the WOE helpful... then insert themselves into these conversations and debate low carb! I think most people use these forums for support and education, hopefully the overall tone will stay positive and the debates will stay on the other boards. Happy Tuesday everyone!4
