And, as any dialysis patient could attest - so does food cooked in water/milk/broth that absorbs a lot of the cooking medium, such as pasta, potatoes, rice, rehydrated pulses, porridge....

Not to mention the water you use to take your medications...and soup....and ice lollies...and the ice in your G&T...

It all counts when your anuric and limited to 500mls of fluid a day FOR EVERYTHING, INCLUDING COOKING WATER.

So, really, most folks that eat and drink 'normally' probably don't need to worry that they're insufficiently hydrated...

Straw-coloured pee is thesweet spot...

@conniewilkins56 - didn’t think of those in heat! That is a lotta fluids!
Alo fluids in foods @Bella_Figura & @PAV8888

I would not be so rude to such a lady Think it is on heat @PAV888 🤣🤣🤣

Drinking water and keeping hydrated helps keep the wrinkles away!

I am not going to do this justice because I'm pressed for time today.

But it is something I've often thought about. Including while I was losing weight and since then as I continue to manage my weight via loging and continuing to participate in the forums and thinking about food intake and management.

There is a post in the main forums, paraphrasing "my visit to the hospital couldn't explain my symptoms. But I can" Revived from 2020.

Where is the line between I have a healthy relationship with food and my body and an unhealthy one?

The overt behaviors are often very similar. So where is the tipping point, or is it all a continuum, a spectrum?

Is it normal weight management, ED like behaviors, managed ED, or just plain ED free for all?

My "sober second check" has long been the 🐹 metaphor, including taking a minute for self reflection and evaluating my actions against external scientific information. Are they normal or extreme? Supported by evidence? Do they make sense? 0.5% to 1%, maybe briefly up to 1.5% of body weight per week. 25% deficit while obese. Occasional refeed. Don't demonize even if you reduce. Where is the line between good exercise and compulsive? etc etc... pushing towards change but in the middle not extremes

I've often said that the year of losing fast (at an average of 695 Cal a day effective deficit, from MFP start at almost 240 and down to the 160s) was, in retrospect, at the limits. Took me a year+ for self body image to start catching up if nothing else.

But where/what are the limits?

Never engaging in ED like behaviors? Never counting calories, not making food trade offs? Not limiting food choices and quantities? Always accepting social invitations that involve food and partaking freely? Allowing others to dictate to you (but it is only a baklava, fresh, healthy energy, eat, eat, eat) when you will eat extra, even if you had other plans (but I wanted to eat my yogurt with wild blueberries, or magnum ice cream tonight). Not declaring that first year that multiple Christmas dinners and special dishes were cancelled and that only one turkey and one new year gala dinner were allowed?

Or are the limits only in how we feel about all this? How we feel our actions are impacting us? If it's a good impact all is good; but if it is negatively affecting our life it is isn't?

Because I'll be honest: I've never felt more happy about my body health and abilities as an adult and this came about *because* I imposed management on my weight.

It doesn't feel restrictive. I am not resenting it. Yes, I made changes and lost some things. But I gained other things. Things I was no longer able to do. I marvel and enjoy "taking care of myself" and imposing "me time" instead of resenting it and feeling it is imposed on me

But I've seen "looks" from people.

So is it our own viewpoint only? Has anyone else here wondered? Have my 🐹s gone bonkers?🙀

I'ma thinking on this one. Thinking about where I think the line is.

Janatki wrote: »

Hey, though, who hasn’t experienced disordered eating to some extent as an obese person?
I know I have. Tried ridiculously silly diets in my time.

I certainly have experienced disordered eating and obsessive exercising in the past.

I remember one particular occasion really vividly, when I was about 22....I'd lost about 35kg in a little over 6 months through a ridiculously restrictive diet (skipping breakfast and eating just garden peas with vinegar and dried apricots for both lunch and dinner). I was also walking and cycling about 250kms a week. Crazy. On the occasion in question, I went with my then boyfriend to the university observatory to view some planetary wonder that was only visible in the early hours, and walking back home at 4am, he dug a sandwich and packet of crisps from his bag and offered me a crisp. Because it was 4am and I was hungry, tired and off-guard, I took the crisp unthinkingly and bit off a little, then realised what I was doing and spat it out again and burst into tears because I felt like I'd undone months of hard work.

I've never forgotten it. To be that rigid about my diet that a fragment of crisp felt like I'd derailed all my months of effort. That was a real low point.

I will add that if there is past history (or un manifested potentiality) large deficits by themselves can actually act as a trigger! <-- Another reason for "my" 25% of TDEE max (20% while no longer high overweight) "rule".

Would love to hear from all the others!

It *is* something to think about, right? In many ways we engage in behaviors that would be considered abnormal by others.

The number of people who tell me they have (what Yooly calls) "absolute rules" about food and eating but categorically refuse to count calories because "that's too much work", or "too intense", or "too much trouble", or "too much for me" is eye popping.

I believe "a" line is definitely if you evaluate where you're at and decide that you're somewhere where "this" is causing you more distress than benefit... and yet you feel "powerless"/"unwilling"/"unable" to change "this".

BUT, it HAS been more than 35 years since I looked at a psych textbook and I don't think I got an A either... so maybe more peops can chime in!!??!?!?

This is one reason I know I need to take a few successful maintenance breaks this year…I have got to learn that I don’t always have to eat at a deficit…I have never maintained my entire life…I either eat too much or I diet….

The end.