ahilton1992 Member

25 years old | 5'11" | 189.6 pounds 1700-2000 cals per day (depending on if I'm working out or not) In an aggressive cut right now

@AnvilHead agreed lol

@AnvilHead Just saw your last post, and I think that pretty much sums it up. "Sufficient to build, not to maximize gainz"

I think there can be a big difference between eating to get jacked/shredded (whatever you want to call it) vs eating to keep your body as healthy as possible

Guess you have to pick between living a long healthy life and looking good naked lol

@RoxieDawn This is fantastic, thank you!

@rheddmobile Much appreciated. Just a really interesting topic to me - for some reason

@rheddmobile I'd agree that carbs are practical in that sense. But I just don't agree with the typical bro science of bulking or that you can't gain muscle while in caloric deficit or caloric maintenance.

@jjpptt2 Yes, absolutely. Especially for folks who may be new to low carb - it is tough. Probably why it is so highly debated. Just for me personally, say I didn't get much sleep the night before and am feeling groggy, then when I'm low carb (50-70G per day) a bowl of oatmeal with about 30-35 carbs pre workout seems to be…

@ForecasterJason I believe the basis for the whole argument is - although there is nothing wrong with consuming more carbs.. This popular belief that you HAVE to to build muscle mass is not true.

@ForecasterJason That's really what I think. I do believe there is more than one way to get to the same end point. Unfortunately, I think "Bro Science: has become the norm - which is okay, it still works to an extent. But when it comes to what the body actually requires to go through the process of building muscle, I think…

Found this study online. It doesn't have to do as much with carbs, but they studied two groups both in a major calorie deficit, but one group taking in considerable more protein then the other. Really interesting when it comes to the subject of what a significant increase in protein during a calorie deficit can do.…

@Kyloleigh87 Great Job. Keep Pushing and there's no reason you can't keep the pounds melting off!

Watching the entire interview - It's interesting that there really have not been any studies on what increasing protein intake during a calorie deficit does and the effect it would have on your body.. those could be some ground breaking findings when it comes to getting stronger/gaining muscle while in a calorie deficit.

This is really interesting - Only three days of dieting already reduce basal MPS (Areta, 2014). This shows that an energy deficit is suboptimal for MPS, however you can grow muscle mass while losing fat (Longland, 2016). It is unclear if eating above maintenance is needed to optimize MPS.

Insulin inhibits muscle protein breakdown a bit, but only a little is needed for the maximal effect (this is discussed in dept in section XXX). A protein shake alone increases enough insulin to maximally inhibit muscle protein breakdown, you don’t need additional carbohydrates (Staples, 2011).

for the purposes we've been talking about

So I think carbs are over-hyped lol

7.4 Carbohydrate or fat co-ingestion Carbohydrates slows down protein digestion, but have no effect on MPS (Gorissen, 2014). In agreement, adding large amounts of carbohydrates to protein does not improve post-exercise MPS rates (Koopman, 2007). In addition to the effects on protein digestion, it has been suggested that…

Great article so far, still reading it but this jumped out at me - You only need a minimal amount of food to reach insulin concentrations that maximally inhibit muscle protein breakdown. In agreement, adding carbohydrates to 30 g of protein does not further decrease muscle protein breakdown rates (Staples, 2011).

So the thoughts I've come up with based off everyone's responses and sitting here at work not doing my job and researching this instead - goes back to what @cwolfman13 posted part of an article about. http://cristivlad.com/energy-levels-under-ketosis-fats-carbs-and-atp/ In general, carbohydrates form the main energy source…

@AnvilHead Really appreciate this info. I might be looking for info that isn't truly out there. Gonna for sure check out Eric's Muscle & Strength stuff

Obviously low carb sucks for most people. There’s no denying that. But I think the science behind it is interesting - and the true affect it REALLY has.

@cwolfman13 that’s really interesting, and an eye opening two paragraphs. Thank you for sharing that. I think something really interesting could come of a study that focuses on exactly what those paragraphs are talking about.

@AnvilHead based off this, would you say it’s safe to say that 20-40g or carbs before a workout, and maybe a similar amount right after - is all that would be needed for them to fulfill their purpose? Don’t take actual serving since too literal, would vary based in person obviously

@AnvilHead thank you! This is the type of info I was looking for. Real science! Much appreciated

I really think the main argument for carbs in muscle building is having energy (glycogen) to get through intense weight lifting sessions, and replenishing those glycogen stores post workout. But because protein can be converted to glycogen I’m failing to see a a reason (backed by science) that a significant amount of carbs…

Yes, absolutely - there are other functions that have to go on in your body to be healthy that require micro nutrients and are probably neecssary for optimal muscle growth. Couple of things - obviously, I’m not talking about eliminating EVERY carb. Sill eat your vegetables, you’re still gonna yet probably 50 carbs a day or…

Someone correct me if I'm wrong - I know simple carbs can be good for spiking insulin levels after a workout, which helps drive amino acids to the muscles, but whey protein is also known for spiking insulin levels. So again, carbs seem obsolete in the muscle building process.

Good point @JMcGee2018 Like @jjpptt2 said, I think it's just a really interesting conversation/debate/whatever you want to call it.