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Forgot you were doing exercise eat-back., but you still might benefit from doing 100 more to push over your BMR.
Actually, I haven't been - I included the workouts into the estimate of activity levels.0 -
Things are still going pretty slow for me. My workouts have gotten more intense: Cardio 6 days and weights 3 days. I know from everything I've read that I need to NET above my BMR but I am still unsure if that should be daily or on average. I also wonder if I have my calculations wrong.
Here is the spot check for this week:
Start Weight date 4/2/2012
Start Weight 146.4
Start BMR 1298
Food Exercise Net
Monday, April 02 1547 503 1044
Tuesday, April 03 1887 515 1372
Wednesday, April 04 1453 427 1026
Thursday, April 05 1808 600 1208
Friday, April 06 1707 396 1311
Saturday, April 07 0
Sunday, April 08 0
Weekly totals 8402 2441 5961
Daily average 1200 349 852
Daily Goal Calories 1930
End Weight 146.4
End BMR 1298
Net above BMR -447
I've monitored my activity levels pretty closely and I am pretty sure I am accounting for all my non-active as well as active times.
Any suggestions? Do I still need to eat more, or less? I am hoping that I am trading muscle for fat and that's why the loss has not been faster, but I also worry that I am still not doing something right.0 -
Things are still going pretty slow for me. My workouts have gotten more intense: Cardio 6 days and weights 3 days. I know from everything I've read that I need to NET above my BMR but I am still unsure if that should be daily or on average. I also wonder if I have my calculations wrong.
Weekly totals 8402 2441 5961
Daily average 1680 488 1192
Daily Goal Calories 1930
End Weight 146.4
End BMR 1298
Net above BMR -106
I've monitored my activity levels pretty closely and I am pretty sure I am accounting for all my non-active as well as active times.
Any suggestions? Do I still need to eat more, or less? I am hoping that I am trading muscle for fat and that's why the loss has not been faster, but I also worry that I am still not doing something right.
So I corrected the values above based on 2 days not being in there. The spreadsheet assumes 7 days. I'll have to tweak that.
So on daily avg missing daily goal by 250 cal, and under BMR by 106.
And the more intense your workouts, the more spread there should be to see improvement. Weekly avg is just fine, because there is balance each day. So a day or two netting below is not bad.
The only problem there is if you undercut your BMR by like 500 each day, and then went over 1000's on the rest day to make it up. Even the spike day theory which keeps you from netting constantly below isn't that extreme.
And you don't do that far below at least.
But on avg, you are below. So since your BMR still has to decide what to accomplish with less energy it is getting, compared to what it really wants, somethings will be left not done.
Building more muscle is one of them. Now, existing muscle can improve and store more energy, weight gain.
You are probably still losing fat, weight loss.
So I'd get that 250 in there to reach goal of 1930 it appears it came up with.
Here's my other concern because I can easily do this with 4 days of cardio. So this depends on how intense that cardio is. At only 400 cal it appears, perhaps not bad at all, and this is of no concern.
But keep this in mind if you increase to an hr a day and higher effort.
So you have a nice diet goal of 176 g carbs, or 704 calories worth. If you reach goal 1930, even more. Good.
Decent cardio is going to burn 60-70% carbs, or if more intense because it's shorter would be 70-80% easily, if not more. 100% at anaerobic of course. Which for avg Joe or Jill is 80% true MHR.
If that carb burn just from the workout is over 450 cal, you just used up all the carbs stored in liver, if they were topped off. That's fine, the muscles then start getting glucose from muscle storage, 1000-1500 cal worth there, enough for marathon if done at right pace.
Anyway though, with liver glucose gone, blood sugar must still be maintained because the brain is still eating sugar as well as other organs without glucose storage, so now muscle is broken down for that purpose.
So you eat your meals and the liver gets filed back up by however meals it takes to reach 450, excess goes to the muscles, ect.
The concern to think about in case you want to increase time and/or intensity of those 6 days in a row, do the math and confirm you are fully topping off your stores, or you could easily find yourself at day 6 tearing into muscle breakdown.
I've had to make a concerted effort to watch out for that. Just didn't want you going the route of more and harder without knowing what to watch out for. Burned muscle is very hard to gain back at calorie deficit, unless the deficit is very small.
Since this was a paper almost, In conclusion, ya, eat back that extra 250 more it appears you should have, so you don't NET under your BMR constantly.0 -
The concern to think about in case you want to increase time and/or intensity of those 6 days in a row, do the math and confirm you are fully topping off your stores, or you could easily find yourself at day 6 tearing into muscle breakdown.
I've had to make a concerted effort to watch out for that. Just didn't want you going the route of more and harder without knowing what to watch out for. Burned muscle is very hard to gain back at calorie deficit, unless the deficit is very small.
Since this was a paper almost, In conclusion, ya, eat back that extra 250 more it appears you should have, so you don't NET under your BMR constantly.
Thank you.
It is a hard mental thing to get through my head I guess that I actually need to eat more. But I KNOW I need too.
My cardio has become pretty intense, burning 500-600 at a time (on cardio only days). Then the other days are a shorted cardio (HIIT) and then weights, so not as big as a burn but still decent.
I will get this right! LOL
Thank you again for taking the time to explain all this and to help me make a healthy life long change.0 -
Alright, measurements as of 8/4/2012 (compared to25th March):
Neck: 33 (0)
Forearm: 23cm (0)
Waist: 72.5 (-0.5cm)
Abd: 76.5 (-1cm)
Hips: 92 (0)
L thigh: 59.5 (-0.5) / R thigh: 59 (-1cm)
L calf: 33cm (-0.5cm) / R calf: 33cm (-0.5cm)
L arm / R arm: no change
Wrist: no change
Body Fat:
23.07% (Covert Bailey "Fit or Fat")
25.3% Average
The thing that I'm seeing is that my calf measurements are consistently dropping with each measurement. I'm hoping that this is more because I wasn't making sure to leave 2 rest days before measuring and/or am loosing some intramuscular fatty deposits, rather than actually losing muscle bulk itself.
(and yep, I realise measurements were taken v close together. Was checking I wasn't upping in weight - was about 3 weeks into upping my cals)
6th March 34.5
15th March 35
20th March 34
25th March 33.5 (2 rest days)
8th April 33 (2 rest days)0 -
Progress Week 9
Current BMR = 1740 (Katch BF% is 1850)
Goal calories = 2465 on first 5 days, 2000 on last 2 days which is a week of no exercise
Average calorie intake per day = 2341
Average Exercise burn per day = 370
Average Net Calories = 1970
Net above BMR - 251 (120 using Katch BMR)
Weight lost this week = 4.6 lbs
Didn't have time for any measurement - but from jeans I know waist is down again.
Last weeks weigh-in was inflated (only lost 0.4) because of retained water in sore muscles, finally dropped on Fri. So 2 week avg more realistic at 2.5 lb each week. And this after I got eating goal back up a bit, and calmed down on workouts a bit.
Started rest week on Monday for 6 or 7 days with no exercise. Eating at 2000, so at least 150 over Katch BMR.
Purpose of rest week is to have calorie cut while RMR is still running high from normal exercise routine, but you are basically only feeding the BMR. So from Sunday, actually lost 1.2 lbs. No artificial loss like energy stores, dehydrated, sick with sore throat but no problem eating and drinking, more drink actually.
This should be a week of mainly fat burn. Sadly I can't get the normally recommended walk slowly during workout times to enhance non-fed daily activity.0 -
Progress Week 9
Weight lost this week = 4.6 lbs
Great loss!!
I stayed the same again this week, even with a couple of extra rest days. This week I'm trying to focus on getting my net calories consistently above my BMR.0 -
Definitely frustrated...it's been TWO MONTHS and I haven't lost an ounce in that time
WEEK # 8 since upping calories
UP 1.2 lbs :grumble:
Start wt: 171.2
Start BMR = 1471
Daily avg eaten= 1854
Daily avg burned = 244
Daily net = 1609
end weight 172.4
End BMR = 1476
Net above BMR = 133
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LAST WEEK
Weekly update through 4/4/10:
Start 171.8 lbs
BMR: 1473
Avg food: 1846
Avg exercise: 207
Avg Net: 1639
Net over BMR: 168
End: 171.2 lbs
"loss" = .60 -
Net above BMR = 133
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LAST WEEK
Net over BMR: 168
Since you seem to net above your BMR by decent amount, you could in theory trim another 100 off daily.
That being said, when I tried that and exercised decently for 2 weeks, I lost 0.2 lbs for each week, and some muscle weight - so not good result.. When I upped it by almost 200 calories because I adjusted the schedule for different type of workouts, then it started coming off easier.0 -
Net above BMR = 133
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LAST WEEK
Net over BMR: 168
Since you seem to net above your BMR by decent amount, you could in theory trim another 100 off daily.
That being said, when I tried that and exercised decently for 2 weeks, I lost 0.2 lbs for each week, and some muscle weight - so not good result.. When I upped it by almost 200 calories because I adjusted the schedule for different type of workouts, then it started coming off easier.
Yeah...just not sure
I was netting about 50 over BMR for 2 or 3 weeks and didn't lose any lbs at that level either. I dunno... 0 -
Progress Week 10 on 4/14 (this is shift to Sat am being weigh-in now, from Wed am, so some week 9 overlap)
Current BMR = 1713 (Katch BF% is 1805)
Goal calories = 2000 on a week of no exercise except Sat/Sun @ 2465
Average calorie intake per day = 2148 (2000 except Sat/Sun)
Average Exercise burn per day = 213 (Sun long ride)
Average Net Calories = 1935
Net above BMR - 222 (130 using Katch BMR)
Weight lost this week = 2.6 lbs
Purpose of rest week is to have calorie cut while RMR is still running high from normal exercise routine, but you are basically only feeding the BMR. No artificial loss like energy stores, dehydrated, though I was sick all week with sore throat but no problem eating and drinking, more drink actually.
This should be a week of mainly fat burn. Sadly I can't get the normally recommended walk slowly during workout times to enhance daily activity.
This is normally what I see on a rest week. But I should not have waited 8 weeks, needed it at 6, but had week off anyway.
I will mention, after starting my meds on this same Sat, I'm up 3lbs today still eating at 2000 and no exercise. Water retention since there is on way I could gain fat.
This Sat will be next update, and off 2 of the meds, and hopefully well. Starting slowly back on exercise tonight.0 -
WEEK # 9 (This week)
Down 2.4 lbs (but not really since 9 weeks ago I started at 170.6)
Avg eaten: 1873
Avg burned: 202
Avg Net: 1671
Start wt: 172.4
End wt: 170.0
Net above BMR: 206
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WEEK # 8 (LAST WEEK)
was UP 1.2 lbs
Start wt: 171.2
Start BMR = 1471
Daily avg eaten= 1854
Daily avg burned = 244
Daily net = 1609
end weight 172.4
End BMR = 1476
Net above BMR = 1330 -
Progress Week 11 on 4/21
Current BMR = 1715 (Katch BF% is 1830)
Goal calories = 2000 on first 4 days (finishing 9 days no exercise) higher 2489 last 3 days
Average calorie intake per day = 2289
Average Exercise burn per day = 167
Average Net Calories = 2062
Net above BMR - 347 (232 using Katch BMR)
Weight lost this week = 0.4 lbs
Finished off 9 days of no exercise and eating slightly above BMR. Normally a fat burning time, but didn't get any calm walks in during workout times to help. Still sick for half of week. Actually on Wed am, gained 3 lbs, so by Sat had lost 2.6 of that water weight, I think med's induced.
Measurements though, down 1.25% BF, or 2.2 lbs. LBM went up 2.6 lbs (water weight still thinking).
Meds stopped today, though inflammation and cough still there, but mostly dry. Bike ride showed lungs/O2 not effected totally.0 -
Progress Week 12 on 4/28
Current BMR = Katch BF% is 1844
Goal calories = 2489 (extra on 1 day for extra long workout)
Average calorie intake per day = 2579
Average Exercise burn per day = 597
Average Net Calories = 1982
Net above BMR - 138
Weight lost this week = 1.8 lbs gained actually
Past week was focus on weight lifting after the 10 days off. 4 sessions. Still sore from Wed/Thu lifting I knew retaining water. Upper body lost Friday night (up every 2 hrs about getting rid of).
Lower body still sore from Thu, not lost yet.
This week back to 1 lifting upper and lower each, and normal cardio intense/recovery sessions.0 -
I haven't posted an update in a few weeks, but am still following this plan. Here are my results 12 weeks in:
Here are my results so far following this method:
Week 1 1.2 pounds lost
Week 2 1.4 pounds lost
Week 3 1.4 pounds lost
Week 4 1 pounds lost
Week 5 0.4 pounds lost
Week 6 0.2 pounds lost
Week 7 0 pounds lost
Week 8 1.8 pounds lost
Week 9 0.2 pounds lost
Week 10 0.2 pounds GAINED
Week 11 0.4 pounds lost
Week 12 0.4 pounds lost
12 weeks, total weight loss 8.2 pounds (.68/per week). The last several weeks have been extremely slow in terms of scale movement. 28 pounds still to get to my goal weight. Week 11 was light on exercise due to having a cold. Week 12 I started concentrating on increasing my protein to approx 120g - 140g/day. I'm always over on my carbs.
Week 12 spot check:
Starting Weight date 4/24/12
Starting BMR 1394
Food Exercise Net
April 24 1958 200 1758
April 25 1846 0 1846
April 26 1880 705 1175
April 27 1629 125 1504
April 28 1966 446 1520
April 29 1857 315 1542
April 30 2038 300 1738
Weekly totals 13174 2091 11083
Daily average 1882 299 1583
Daily Goal Calories 1879
Ending Weight = 0.4 pounds lost
Ending BMR 1392
Net above BMR avg 191 should be positive
Also, took measurements today....
Since January 2, I have lost
11.8 pounds
3.5 inches on my waist
2.75 inches on my hips
2.75 inches on my chest
.5 inches on my right thigh
pretty much stayed same on right calf (1/8 inch loss)
.25 inches on my right bicep
my BMI has gone down 1.9
So there is definite progress taking place, albeit slowly. The past two months have been very slow, both on the scale and in terms of inches (1 inch on waist and .5 inches on hips, rest of measurements same, except an increase in thigh measurement (retaining water maybe due to lots of leg work this week??).
I had really hoped to be down another 7 pounds when I do the Tough Mudder on May 19 - but that's not looking realistic.
Other than increasing my protein, any ideas on increasing the movement in either the scale or inches (preferably both)? Or is this slow what's meant by slow and steady??
If you've read this far - thanks for taking the time!! Have a great day!!0 -
I think you're doing awesome!!!0
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End of week 11...here we go...LOL
Start 11 weeks ago 171.4
Today 169.8
weekly weight loss 0.14 lbs.
Oh man...
need to take new measurements but at last check, no movement.0 -
I had really hoped to be down another 7 pounds when I do the Tough Mudder on May 19 - but that's not looking realistic.
Other than increasing my protein, any ideas on increasing the movement in either the scale or inches (preferably both)? Or is this slow what's meant by slow and steady??
If you've read this far - thanks for taking the time!! Have a great day!!
I'd say since you seem to have provided metabolism opportunity to be burning full, exercise isn't robbing too many calories for BMR to get it's job done without slowing things down any, workout calorie burns don't seem to indicate massive over training, then it's time to cut 100 off daily.
Now, I will say I got closer to BMR than that will put you, accidentally had some values wrong in activity after some changes so it dropped, and for the 2 weeks I did that, little to no loss. Noticed the error when I was putting lawn mowing time/effort in, and cal's went back up and more. Then the loss went better until my rest week where I was sick and didn't walk, and week later with focus on lifting. And this will be a bad carb-loading week if you get my drift.
But give it a go for 3 weeks. If metabolism was flying high, should see immediate results from increased deficit, and if loss amount stays, then metabolism is staying, then drop another 100.
But if you have bigger loss first week, less next week, less again, then you were already too close, and probably already suppressed, in which case going back up, and probably a tad more.
I can't recall, was that the Katch BMR estimate or Mifflin?0 -
I can't recall, was that the Katch BMR estimate or Mifflin?
From the spreadsheet, my 1392 is Mifflin. The Katch BMR is blank - where can I calculate that and what's the difference between the two?
Had a chat with my personal trainer this a.m. and she suggested I give the increased protein another 1-2 weeks and if that doesn't trigger a change, then possibly drop 100 calories - so you two are thinking along the same lines. :-) Always makes me feel better if I have more than one person giving me similar advice!
Thanks for your input!!0 -
From the spreadsheet, my 1392 is Mifflin. The Katch BMR is blank - where can I calculate that and what's the difference between the two?
Had a chat with my personal trainer this a.m. and she suggested I give the increased protein another 1-2 weeks and if that doesn't trigger a change, then possibly drop 100 calories - so you two are thinking along the same lines. :-) Always makes me feel better if I have more than one person giving me similar advice!
Thanks for your input!!
Katch is the BMR calc that uses the bodyfat% or rather LBM in calc, and is much more accurate. Because the energy needs of fat-free mass is pretty straight forward.
Mifflin is the BMR calc MFP uses too, and is based on avg Fat / LBM ratio of avg person your age/height, then increased for weight factor, and by that point, could be very inflated.
So you literally could have less LBM than Mifflin is expecting and therefore BMR is actually lower, or it could be higher from all the working out and BMR is actually higher. Mine is a tad over 100 more than current weight Mifflin, 200 more than future weight Mifflin.
So there should be a link in spreadsheet for getting a bodyfat% estimate. As long as the values are within 5% of each other, decent enough estimate to be used in the BMR calc. And if you keep logging measurements, decent for seeing direction too. Even if 5% off.
http://www.gymgoal.com/dtool_fat.html
And I don't think the protein would actually make much difference. It wouldn't change the calories you are doing. If you were having problems eating less, it might very help make you feel full and help you not eat as much.
If you were having insulin spikes because of high carbs and it made you hungry in an hour, that could help too.
But you are already logging and eating a certain amount of calories, which won't change.
Only thing it would do is cause slightly more inefficiency in processing the food, so while the label may say 100 cal of protein, and you only get 90 cal actually out of it, compared to 95 for carb or 99 for fat, it's not that much difference. And those values are totally made up, I don't recall real % of usage right now.
That being said, it can help make workouts more productive in the repair aspect during recovery. Muscle is always broken down during exercise, if not enough taken in, then it's not repaired back as well or better - which is the whole point of exercise hopefully.
Just don't trim too many carbs away such that intense workouts don't have their carb burn replaced by the next workout.
Meaning, lets say your workout burning 700 calories is real intense cardio, you love it and really push hard, HR 80% of max.
And about 90% carb usage at that level, if not more. Only 10% of energy needs coming from fat.
You just burned 630 cal's of carbs, glucose. You used up 450 cal available in the liver, if that was really topped off. Rest of it came from the muscle glucose stores being used.
Sadly, for the time between liver usage and muscle usage and until your next meal, the blood sugar must still be maintained, and muscle glucose can't be put into the bloodstream. Now, some lactic acid being produced can be used, other conversions too, but the easiest to convert is muscle, so you burn a tad of muscle until your next meal with carbs.
So anyway, 630 cal's of carbs gone for just that workout, plus rest of the daily use,
If your diet until the next workout doesn't make up those 630 cal's of carbs, 158 grams worth, the muscles are depleted by some amount. Enough days in a row of carb deficit, and if the same muscles are always in deficit, they themselves will need glucose, and once liver is empty, more conversion for general muscle use now.
This is exactly how I burned off 3.4 lbs of LBM in 6 wks, prior to adding a rest day, and a recovery day, and making intervals truly intervals, and watching more carefully. And I knew fully well it could happen, just didn't do the math.
Anyway, in conclusion, don't add too much protein and only back down carbs, if your workouts are real intense. If they are lengthy and calm, then carb usage is probably only 60%, so no problems, file away the tidbits above for trivia night.0
