Trayvon and the media
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I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.0
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I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....0 -
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
Pretty much. He was deemed suscpious because of the color of his skin. This point should be obvious to anyone. What happened after Zimmerman ignored orders to follow him is now (thankfully!) up to the courts to decide but that point is not really debatable.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You are guilty of, in this thread alone:
Lumping an entire race of people the same;
Making condescending remarks about a single race of people;
and
Telling someone they fit the bill of a stereotypical person of a single race.
unknown_sister, I think you should stop throwing stones in your glass house.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You are guilty of, in this thread alone:
Lumping an entire race of people the same;
Making condescending remarks about a single race of people;
and
Telling someone they fit the bill of a stereotypical person of a single race.
unknown_sister, I think you should stop throwing stones in your glass house.
Obviously you are seeing something I am not.....please elaborate.....0 -
here is the key difference. When a black person robs, assults or murders a white person, it is more often or not, a crime of opportunity than directed at the race of the victim. However, a lot of times, when a black person is murdered by a white person, that person is targeted BECAUSE they are black, that is the difference....
why does that make a difference? The victims are dead whether they were killed because of racism(kill you whitey=kill you n*****), hatred (hate you cracka=hate you n*****), greed(gimme your purse/jewelry/ipod/car), plain old violence(I need to be initiated into a gang=I need to feel big for killing a n*****).
Why does the "why" make any difference at all? Murder=murder imho. I've never understood why a criminal gets more severe penalties if they murder someone because of their race, or their job title(cops lives are more valuable than mine, apparently), than if they murder a "regular" person.
Anyone?
 Fbmandy55 had posted a topic about race and crime that more or less went through what makes a crime a hate crime.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/549620-crime-based-on-race
Another member named uponthisrock had a pretty eloquent response as to why some murders are viewed differently. Â I've pasted it below. I do think tat a murder is a murder and all life should be viewed as equally valuable. However, I do understand the reasons behind such laws and don't object to them.
......
"One of the ways a society expresses it values is through the things it makes crimes, classes of crimes, and punishment for those crimes. For example, we treat "heat of passion" murder different than "premeditated" murder.Â
Those that kill police officers are treated differently out of an acknowledgment of the dangers associated with serving as a police officer and our gratitude for that service.Â
Hate crimes are treated differently because of our countries history of racial terror. It's a statement that such actions are especially intolerable in modern society."
As I went back to search for this info, I saw that you also contributed to his debate. Â So I take it, you didn't gain any insight from that discussion? ( I assume that is what you were looking for when you asked the questions.) You made it seem that no one was ever able to address this question for you. I get the feeling, not just from you, that some are not really debating, but pushing an agenda/opinion.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You are guilty of, in this thread alone:
Lumping an entire race of people the same;
Making condescending remarks about a single race of people;
and
Telling someone they fit the bill of a stereotypical person of a single race.
unknown_sister, I think you should stop throwing stones in your glass house.
Obviously you are seeing something I am not.....please elaborate.....
Are you sure you'll even pay attention to it, if I quote it all? I am, after all, just another generic white person.0 -
Um, I am also white......:huh:0
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I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
so let me get this straight, you are saying since you think all white people have racism towards blacks and you are in fact white you are saying YOU are rascist towards blacks.
You see you don't get to make up others minds or speak for others because you only know you, and by assuming you know the minds of an entire race of people and trying to lump us into one large rascist race you just make yourself look one-sided and ignorant.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
Some slaves defended their masters. Some victims defend their victimizers, that doesn't really prove someone isn't. Again don't know if Zimmerman is or not, but not closed off to the possibility based on his friends or race. I think it would do good for us all to examine our core beliefs. I won't speak for unknown_sister, If her message is not coming across clearly, she needs to figure out another way. (I generally stay away form making absolute statements, such as "all", "everyone", "everytime". And I try not to say what someone is thinking for sure) However, I think I understand what she is trying to say. Racial profiling/stereotyping is real. And each of us probably engage in this to a certain degree. However, if we don't acknowledge it, it can potentially lead to situations of real consequences to ourselves and others. Racist views can get embedded in a deep place and only show themselves in certain situations. I also believe that these racist beliefs can be adopted by individuals within the targeted race or similarly marginalized population (minorities to minorities).
Personally, I am OK (to a certain degree) with an openly racist person as long as they are not disrispecting me or impeding my rights, opportunity, or future, because at least you know who your are dealing with. And, hey, it's America. I have actually known some pretty nice, pleasant, and even entertaining racist. I've even had to ask them if they realize they were racist. I think this view that racists are only Klu Klux Klan members, or raging hateful people is a hinderance to the discussion. However, I will disclose that I am apprehensive with drunk white people because people sometimes let some hidden things out when they are drunk and it does something to me to realize that someone I am "cool" with holds certain negative views about the race I am a part of.
I have more concern towards institutional racism and those who are in denial or are just hiding their views. And I feel that is a possible the issue in the Trayvon Martin case, especially with the police department. We can debate that. But I still don't understand why there seems to be so much fear, angst , irritation, or what have you, in having this discussion. Not talking about these issues I feel is what perpetrates racism. And I certainly don't think, as another poster said, that racism is caused by people asking questions or talking about it. What is wrong with looking to see if it was at play in this situation?0 -
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
One can have black friends and still not like black people. Their friend is the exception in their mind.
The particular 'friend' you're talking about is a friend of Zimmerman's father not Zimmerman himself. He hadn't seen Zimmerman in two years or something and even then barely knew him.
Hell even if they were best friends for life how does that change the fact that Zimmerman saw a black teenager walking in the rain, followed him, initiated a confrontation and then shot him? It doesn't change anything.0 -
@ doingitnow I have no problem looking into it being a race thing, however she is stating is as though it is obvious and clear that he was rascist. They have already made up their minds and the trial hasn't even begun.0
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You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
One can have black friends and still not like black people. Their friend is the exception in their mind.
The particular 'friend' you're talking about is a friend of Zimmerman's father not Zimmerman himself. He hadn't seen Zimmerman in two years or something and even then barely knew him.
Hell even if they were best friends for life how does that change the fact that Zimmerman saw a black teenager walking in the rain, followed him, initiated a confrontation and then shot him? It doesn't change anything.
You never said if you believe you yourself are rascist, since all white people apparently are.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
Some slaves defended their masters. Some victims defend their victimizers, that doesn't really prove someone isn't.
That example sounds similar to Stockholm syndrome and wouldn't apply to Zimmerman's relationship with his friend who spoke up for him.0 -
I have no problem looking into it being a race thing, however she is stating is as though it is obvious and clear that he was rascist. They have already made up their minds and the case hasn't even begun.
I used your response as an opportunity to also respond to a few points that had been made by others. I should have made that clear. As you know, I enjoy the debate and think it is a good discussion, and know that you hold the same opinion.
[quote/]
don't worry about explaining yourself to me
, I know you are a great debator and you enjoy it and I take no offense, even if we did have different opinions I still respect you and yours, so no worries!0 -
Here is my thoughts on the race deal
I am not rascist I like any color religion culture what have you, what I do not like is behaviors of people, There are ghetto whites and blacks, spanish, asian, and their are uppity whites, blacks, spanish, asians etc. Now I ONLY speak for myself, it is not about the color of a person, it is the behavior they display no matter what their color that I find distasteful and I do not like. Does that make me rascist?0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
Some slaves defended their masters. Some victims defend their victimizers, that doesn't really prove someone isn't.
That example sounds similar to Stockholm syndrome and wouldn't apply to Zimmerman's relationship with his friend who spoke up for him.
It is the stockholm syndrome, not an apples to apples comparison. Was just making the point that just becasue someone has "black friends" doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't racist. They often see their "friends" as the exception. And some minority seek to be that "other" or exception. I've been "othered" quite a bit myself, which I love (:grumble: ). You know, the "oh but you are different". Sometimes it is explicitly said. Sometimes it's not. Often times the only difference is that they know me personally, but if they had been just as unfamiliar with me as the people they are judging, I probably would have been seen in the same light.0 -
I'm hoping it's just a case of youth and white privilege but I do think all white people do have racism towards black people. In our culture it's hard not to (and am saying this as someone who is white) It's recognizing that it exists and fighting it every time it pops up that is hard.
Yeah, one of the other things too is this.....a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does.....or that it is as harmful to EVERYONE as it is.....and when something does happen, such as the Trayvon Martain case, they look for any answer they can that is not related to race, even though it clearly is.....
You do know that there was a very good long time friend of George Zimmerman that stepped forward and was interviewed and was defending George Zimmerman as far as being rascist goes. This very good friend of his was black. I am not sure how you can be a rascist with black friends.
Some slaves defended their masters. Some victims defend their victimizers, that doesn't really prove someone isn't.
That example sounds similar to Stockholm syndrome and wouldn't apply to Zimmerman's relationship with his friend who spoke up for him.
It is the stockholm syndrome, not an apples to apples comparison. Was just making the point that just becasue someone has "black friends" doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't racist. They often see their "friends" as the exception. And some minority seek to be that "other" or exception. I've been "othered" quite a bit myself, which I love (:grumble: ). You know, the "oh but you are different". Sometimes it is explicitly said. Sometimes it's not. Often times the only difference is that they know me personally, but if they had been just as unfamiliar with me as the people they are judging, I probably would have been seen in the same light.
This was for your other post but I screwed up and was afraid you wouldn't see it so I am putting it here. lol
don't worry about explaining yourself to me , I know you are a great debator and you enjoy it and I take no offense, even if we did have different opinions I still respect you and yours, so no worries! 0 -
@ doingitnow I have no problem looking into it being a race thing, however she is stating is as though it is obvious and clear that he was rascist. They have already made up their minds and the trial hasn't even begun.
Ok, sorry, I am a bit confused at what is directed towards me, and what is not....but I never said ALL white people are racist...that was Lozze that said she believed that all white people have a cultural racism thing going on....
However, it was me that said Zimmerman is a racist, and I truly believe that......I believe with all my heart, that had it saw a white teenager that night in the rain in a hoodie, we would not be having this discussion because none of this would have ever happened. Do I think ZImmerman set out to shot a black kid that night? No. Do I think that ultimatly Zimmerman shot Trayvon because he was black? Yes. Those are not really the same thing....I think the fact that Trayvon was black made Zimmerman's own racists beliefs about black people cause him to believe Trayvon was somehow 'suspicious' and that is what started this whole mess.0
