Trayvon and the media

Azdak

The statements about how all white people are inherently racist is a load of trash. And the blatant disregard for justice by the USAG on multiple occasions because the criminal is black is a prefect example of the the racism that is accepted by black Americans but when its the other way they scream. Its a double standard. The black community is allowed to be racist and the white community cant even be proud of their heritage without being called racist.

Enough already man. Now there is a conspiracy by the federal government, or the black officials, to allow "Black" criminals to go unpunished? I suppose someone else might have an idea what you are talking about, but I'm suspecting most don't. So if you are aware of some injustice that is going on, then take action. Write a petition, protest, call attention to it, do something other than use some unfounded (my opinion) "belief" as some kind of argument or justification that... hell I don't even know what you are trying to justify.

Are you saying people shouldn't be so worked up over the Trayvon martin case becasue Black people can be racist? (even though you are not providing anything specifics)

Are you saying that because you believe that some people get over or get away with crime, everyone should?

And what do you mean by "the black community is allowed to be racist"? How? By whom? How are other races punished that black people aren't? Are you speaking of all black people?

And what do you mean "the white community cant even be proud of their heritage without being called racist"? Is there something in particular you as the white community representative would like permission to do? Let me hear it, maybe this black community member/representative can give you permission. Dude, we are a Nation of individuals. Take your issue up with the idividuals with whom you you have a problem.

Again I ask what is your purpose?

Some people are just obsessed with the topic.

MassiveDelta

The statements about how all white people are inherently racist is a load of trash. And the blatant disregard for justice by the USAG on multiple occasions because the criminal is black is a prefect example of the the racism that is accepted by black Americans but when its the other way they scream. Its a double standard. The black community is allowed to be racist and the white community cant even be proud of their heritage without being called racist.

Enough already man. Now there is a conspiracy by the federal government, or the black officials, to allow "Black" criminals to go unpunished? I suppose someone else might have an idea what you are talking about, but I'm suspecting most don't. So if you are aware of some injustice that is going on, then take action. Write a petition, protest, call attention to it, do something other than use some unfounded (my opinion) "belief" as some kind of argument or justification that... hell I don't even know what you are trying to justify.

Are you saying people shouldn't be so worked up over the Trayvon martin case becasue Black people can be racist? (even though you are not providing anything specifics)

Are you saying that because you believe that some people get over or get away with crime, everyone should?

And what do you mean by "the black community is allowed to be racist"? How? By whom? How are other races punished that black people aren't? Are you speaking of all black people?

And what do you mean "the white community cant even be proud of their heritage without being called racist"? Is there something in particular you as the white community representative would like permission to do? Let me hear it, maybe this black community member/representative can give you permission. Dude, we are a Nation of individuals. Take your issue up with the idividuals with whom you you have a problem.

Again I ask what is your purpose?

Really you dont know? Do you live under a rock or do you just choose to only witness news you deem appropriate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party_voter_intimidation_case

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/mar/30/doj-new-black-panther-party-zimmerman-bounty-no-co/

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0311/Eric_Holder_Black_Panther_case_focus_demeans_my_people.html

Eric Holder is a racist and selects his cases with racial preference.


Twist this around...If Zimmerman was black and had killed a 17 year old White kid and the KKK had called for a bounty on Zimmerman's head do you think there would be outrage?

Some people are just obsessed with the topic.

I actually played the whole racial tone down until I was accused of being a racist because I stood up for Zimmerman earlier in this thread. And yet people keep bringing race up. I just figured a fair and balanced discussion of examples of racism from both sides is fair since everyone is usually to afraid to even suggest that a black person could be racist towards a white person.

BrettPGH

:indifferent:

Lozze

For me, there is nothing to be celebrated here. To not have sympathy and/or enpathy towards both sides in this, I think is disturbing. As humans, we all should be concerned with appearances of impropriety and justice not being served. We need to have a certain level of confidence in the justice system. also, I love the protests that are going on. I think it is wonderful exercise of our rights as Americans. And yes i feel the same way about protests for issues which I do not support. That is what makes America great, at least one of the things.

No sympathy for Zimmerman. What is happening to Zimmerman is the result of him shooting an unarmed teenager. So no, I don't feel sorry for him. If his family didn't think he was right to shoot an unarmed teenager then I'd have more sympathy for him.

Twist this around...If Zimmerman was black and had killed a 17 year old White kid and the KKK had called for a bounty on Zimmerman's head do you think there would be outrage?

If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon was white Zimmerman would have been charged immeaditly. If not shot by the police. The outrage has been over the fact that Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager and was not charged.

Italian_Buju

If Zimmerman was black and Trayvon white, we would not be having this discussion, as he would have been in jail from the night it happened.....

And I hate to say it, but as far as the Black Panther bounty, I kinda don't blame them....seriously, if people in my community were being killed and the bloody cops did not do anything about it, I would want justice anyway I could get it too.....ironicly, I am against capital punishment in all forms, but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

You know, when the cops pull me over for, say speeding, I can freely reach into my glove box or bag to get my papers ready before they get to the window.....HOWEVER, if I was black and male, I had better keep my hands where I can see them when I get pulled over for driving while black, or I might get shot.....this is crap, and I do not blame black people for one minute for having ENOUGH ALREADY!!

The justice system is another thing too, only in American can Casey Anthony walk free, while Troy Davis is put to death.....people have had enough of this *kitten*, including me.....


On another note, I wonder where KimmyEB is.....still waiting to hear about what she thought she read.....

Italian_Buju

Here is a link making clear what she actually meant in her statment about it being an accident.....

http://globalgrind.com/news/sybrina-fulton-clarifies-today-show-statement-details

Italian_Buju

Funny, I watched Zimmerman's court apperence on CNN and he certainly did not look like his nose was broken......or that he had any other marks on his.....

I also watched Trayvon's mother, man, does my heart ever go out to her. And what a beautiful woman she is,...she was telling Anderson that she had no hate in her heart for Zimmerman, she just wanted him to be held accountable for her actions......she is a bigger woman than I, for I would want him to suffer and rot if that was my son.....God Bless her!

fbmandy55

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

"A 2007 special report released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, reveals that approximately 8,000 — and, in certain years, as many as 9,000 African Americans are murdered annually in the United States. This chilling figure is accompanied by another equally sobering fact, that 93% of these murders are in fact perpetrated by other blacks. The analysis, supported by FBI records, finds that in 2005 alone, for example, African Americans accounted for 49% of all homicide victims in the US — again, almost exclusively at the hands of other African Americans."

Racism isn't going to end until ALL sides agree that it happens in every form, not just against "us" or "them".

Italian_Buju

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

Because when a white man is the killer:
1. The chances of the black man being targeted because he is black is HUGE
2. Outrage also happens when said white man goes unpunished.....

KimmyEB

On another note, I wonder where KimmyEB is.....still waiting to hear about what she thought she read.....

I don't live on the boards. If you feel you need to correspond with me THAT badly, then send me a message. As for what I "thought" I read, I'll show you here how it wasn't just some thoughts in my head. To quote some of the ignorant statements you made:

Most white people, whom have white families and such, do not really understand racism the way others do.

Who are you to say that? You haven't walked in the shoes of "most white people" to know this. No one has.

My guess, is that you are straight.....and white.....

Her sexual orientation and race are irrelevant. Why would you even choose to bring that up? What if, let's say, her biggest hero was a gay black woman, and she chose to use a photo of this gay black woman as her user photo in remembrance of her? Or maybe she made it known at the start of the thread that she was a gay black woman. Would your argument be different towards her, then?

I just can tell that someone who would not really have a hate crime committed against them, would not understand the need for the law!

No, you can't. You prove that you can make decisions based on your own assumptions, which may or may not be correct.

The fact, that someone can be targeted, simply for just who they are, is a henious and disgusting crime. Perhaps being straight and white, you can not understand that, but it is as clear as black and white for most people....I do not really know how to explain it to make you understand, it is BECAUSE they are targeted BECAUSE of what they look like, who they pray to, or who they love.....there really is no other way to explain that

Again, you assume that she cannot understand something, when you have nothing to base that on, simply because she is white. You haven't walked in anyone else's shoes, and therefore, cannot tell someone they don't understand something, when perhaps they do, and are choosing to not share every detail of their life on a public message board.

That is the most simply way to explain it, if you still do not understand, I do not know how to break it down any easier. It is pretty basic actually, which leads me to believe if you do not understand it, it is simply because you are straight and white and have no reason to be scared of being in danger of being a victim of a hate crime......

This is just laughable.

I am actually seeing a clearer picture of you now.....perhaps your own racist views are the problem here.....how sad for you....

I have to say, I ready everything she said, nothing was racist. What exactly did you perceive as racist?

a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does

...and you know this how?

There, I have now elaborated on your ignorant assumptions that were made before I initially quoted you.

fbmandy55

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

Because when a white man is the killer:
1. The chances of the black man being targeted because he is black is HUGE
2. Outrage also happens when said white man goes unpunished.....

How often white men go unpunished for killing a black man? It's not like any white person can just walk up and kill a black person and have no consequences... I AM NOT DENYING THAT IT HAPPENS. But I will admit I often have less sympathy once the race card is played because usually it's uncalled for.

Azdak

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

"A 2007 special report released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, reveals that approximately 8,000 — and, in certain years, as many as 9,000 African Americans are murdered annually in the United States. This chilling figure is accompanied by another equally sobering fact, that 93% of these murders are in fact perpetrated by other blacks. The analysis, supported by FBI records, finds that in 2005 alone, for example, African Americans accounted for 49% of all homicide victims in the US — again, almost exclusively at the hands of other African Americans."

Racism isn't going to end until ALL sides agree that it happens in every form, not just against "us" or "them".

It will help a great deal when certain groups of white people get over the idea that they are somehow "victims" and that their petty grievances and the existing racism against people of color are morally equivalent.

KimmyEB

It will help a great deal when certain groups of white people get over the idea that they are somehow "victims" and that their petty grievances and the existing racism against people of color are morally equivalent.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this...do you mean to compare the two, or are you just saying that a white person experiencing racism isn't the same as anyone else?

Azdak

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

"A 2007 special report released by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, reveals that approximately 8,000 — and, in certain years, as many as 9,000 African Americans are murdered annually in the United States. This chilling figure is accompanied by another equally sobering fact, that 93% of these murders are in fact perpetrated by other blacks. The analysis, supported by FBI records, finds that in 2005 alone, for example, African Americans accounted for 49% of all homicide victims in the US — again, almost exclusively at the hands of other African Americans."

Racism isn't going to end until ALL sides agree that it happens in every form, not just against "us" or "them".

Don't get me wrong--I am not playing the white, liberal guilt game that racism/discrimination is responsible for all of society's ills and is an explanation for everything. It's not.

But I think it is absurd to try to deny that institutionalized racism still actively exists or to make the claim that "everyone does it equally".

Italian_Buju

KimmieEB - I did not think you 'lived' on the board, but I do think that if you start throwing accusations around, that are asked for clarification, you would come back and do so.....

Again, I am sorry for my limited knowledge on how to break up quotes and such, so I am just going to have to use quotation marks.

“Most white people, whom have white families and such, do not really understand racism the way others do.”
“Who are you to say that? You haven't walked in the shoes of "most white people" to know this. No one has.”

It is from personal experience. When you only have one type of person in your close circle of people that you truly love and care for, this is most likely to happen. I am not saying that most white people only have white families, I am saying that those that do only have white families, do not understand racism the way others do, because they have never had to deal with it. I have heard that from different white people over and over again, some are not even aware it still exists, and those that are, sometimes do not realize it happens as often, or to the extent that it does. You would be amazed at what some white people will say when only in the company of other white people. It’s sickening.

“My guess, is that you are straight.....and white.....”
“Her sexual orientation and race are irrelevant. Why would you even choose to bring that up? What if, let's say, her biggest hero was a gay black woman, and she chose to use a photo of this gay black woman as her user photo in remembrance of her? Or maybe she made it known at the start of the thread that she was a gay black woman. Would your argument be different towards her, then?”

Her sexual orientation and race obviously are not irrelevant, I was correct. Straight white people are the least likely to experience prejudice based on sexual orientation and race, people that do not experience prejudice are less likely to understand it, or the need for laws against it. So the fact that she is straight and white, makes perfect sense to her argument. If she was a gay black woman, it would be VERY rare for her to have the opinion she does, in fact, I have never come across that……

“I just can tell that someone who would not really have a hate crime committed against them, would not understand the need for the law!”
“No, you can't. You prove that you can make decisions based on your own assumptions, which may or may not be correct.”

Actually, this was pointing out that I was correct in my guess that she was straight and white (see last point), and that actually just makes this point…..she does not understand the need for the law, because she is in the group of people least likely to have a hate crime committed against them, it’s a pretty simple equation actually…..

“The fact, that someone can be targeted, simply for just who they are, is a henious and disgusting crime. Perhaps being straight and white, you can not understand that, but it is as clear as black and white for most people....I do not really know how to explain it to make you understand, it is BECAUSE they are targeted BECAUSE of what they look like, who they pray to, or who they love.....there really is no other way to explain that”
“Again, you assume that she cannot understand something, when you have nothing to base that on, simply because she is white. You haven't walked in anyone else's shoes, and therefore, cannot tell someone they don't understand something, when perhaps they do, and are choosing to not share every detail of their life on a public message board.”

I did not assume she could not understand it, she kept saying that herself!

“That is the most simply way to explain it, if you still do not understand, I do not know how to break it down any easier. It is pretty basic actually, which leads me to believe if you do not understand it, it is simply because you are straight and white and have no reason to be scared of being in danger of being a victim of a hate crime......”
“This is just laughable.”

Why?

“I am actually seeing a clearer picture of you now.....perhaps your own racist views are the problem here.....how sad for you....”
“I have to say, I ready everything she said, nothing was racist. What exactly did you perceive as racist?”

This does not surprise me at all……either you are blind, I am not the only one that noticed that. Or you are also racist, and it is not uncommon that one racist would try and defend another…..I perceived the fact that she seemed to think there was no need for hate crime laws that would protect people different from herself….and that comment about how often white people are killed did not help either…..

“a lot of white people, have only white family, and mainly close white friends, so they are not even aware that racism still happens at the rate that it does”

“...and you know this how?

I know this because it is evident in everyday life, like I said before, it is amazing what some white people will say when in the company of only other white people. Here is just one example of literally HUNDREDS I could tell you about my life alone…..

I work at a small store. We had an employee that had worked there years before me, get rehired, and I was suppose to be re-training him for the day. Within a half an hour of him being there, a Jamaican guy came in to buy something. After said guy had walked out the store, this employee turns to me, right in front of my boss and her husband (all white), and says “Jamaicans, I wonder why someone has not killed them all yet”

Well, I almost fkn died! I could not believe he said that. I could not believe he thought that, let alone said it out loud. I was livid! I told my boss she had to get rid of him or I would leave. My boss, who, is white and has a white husband and children and family, could not understand for the life of her why I was so upset. In fact, she even tried to use the, oh, he worked at a black nightclub, that is why he feels that way, AND, you don't know him, he has black friends excuse....I ended up having to get a lawyer to get anything done. It’s a long *kitten* story, but that is the bottom line. Those friends of mine that have black people in their families, were as confused as I was, as to why she would not have done something about that on the spot. This is only one example I can take from my own life and people. I have also had many white friends in my day, that have told me straight out, that they did not know racism was still so bad, until they hung around with my friends and I, they just did not see it, because it never happened to them. So, I speak, from personal experience.

So, as you can clearly see, unless you CHOOSE not to, those are not ignorant assumptions they are facts of life…… sadly, but still facts…..

Italian_Buju

but black male youth get killed at an alarming rate, by law enforcment and others, and too often, nothing is done about it....

I just want to point out that MOST black men are killed by OTHER black men, why do people seem to think that is ok? A black man being killed by a white man is actually a rare happening in the big picture but that's the only time black people seem to have any outrage over it.

Because when a white man is the killer:
1. The chances of the black man being targeted because he is black is HUGE
2. Outrage also happens when said white man goes unpunished.....

How often white men go unpunished for killing a black man? It's not like any white person can just walk up and kill a black person and have no consequences... I AM NOT DENYING THAT IT HAPPENS. But I will admit I often have less sympathy once the race card is played because usually it's uncalled for.

It happens WAY more often than the other way around, that is the problem... I am not saying that it is ALWAYS the case, but a white on black murder is WAY more often to go unpunished, when a black on white murder, is almost always punished......

Italian_Buju

@Azdak - I LOVE your pic that is here....so true!!

Azdak

It will help a great deal when certain groups of white people get over the idea that they are somehow "victims" and that their petty grievances and the existing racism against people of color are morally equivalent.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this...do you mean to compare the two, or are you just saying that a white person experiencing racism isn't the same as anyone else?

I am saying that it is absurd to try to dismiss or trivialize the institutional racism that still exists in this country by trying to pretend that whites are somehow victims to the same degree.

I am not trying to say that institutionalized racism is responsible for all of society's problems or all of the problems faced by people of color in this country. I use the term sparingly because I think it is often overused.

I do not believe in "collective guilt" or the idea that ALL white people are responsible for ALL of the racial injustice that has occurred in American history.

But there are people who seem to feel the need--almost desperately it seems--to either deny that racism still exists or to trivialize it by claiming that it is equally practiced by all groups. And I think that flies in the face of reality.

I don't think that goofy statements and actions by people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, or fringe groups like the New Black Panthers, for example, are equivalent to the racial profiling that is practiced by many police departments in this country, the discrimination that occurs in job hiring, the vast disparity in sentencing for crimes, etc, etc, etc. It's not that I don't think those people and groups are immune from criticism--they deserve plenty. It's the false equivalence I have a problem with.

KimmyEB

This does not surprise me at all……either you are blind, I am not the only one that noticed that. Or you are also racist, and it is not uncommon that one racist would try and defend another

^I stopped reading your post at this point, and unless you can come up with something better than that, I most likely won't read anything else you have to say. Judging by your previous posts, you probably won't, though.

KimmyEB

It will help a great deal when certain groups of white people get over the idea that they are somehow "victims" and that their petty grievances and the existing racism against people of color are morally equivalent.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this...do you mean to compare the two, or are you just saying that a white person experiencing racism isn't the same as anyone else?

I am saying that it is absurd to try to dismiss or trivialize the institutional racism that still exists in this country by trying to pretend that whites are somehow victims to the same degree.

I am not trying to say that institutionalized racism is responsible for all of society's problems or all of the problems faced by people of color in this country. I use the term sparingly because I think it is often overused.

I do not believe in "collective guilt" or the idea that ALL white people are responsible for ALL of the racial injustice that has occurred in American history.

But there are people who seem to feel the need--almost desperately it seems--to either deny that racism still exists or to trivialize it by claiming that it is equally practiced by all groups. And I think that flies in the face of reality.

I don't think that goofy statements and actions by people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, or fringe groups like the New Black Panthers, for example, are equivalent to the racial profiling that is practiced by many police departments in this country, the discrimination that occurs in job hiring, the vast disparity in sentencing for crimes, etc, etc, etc. It's not that I don't think those people and groups are immune from criticism--they deserve plenty. It's the false equivalence I have a problem with.

Ah, okay. Gotcha. I agree with all of that.