Your preferred date night...?
Replies
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This thread is mainly about scheduling, so I am resuscitating it because I have a scheduling issue.
So I met someone on Tuesday night. Yesterday, a text exchange indicated something that didn't sit well with me. She didn't agree to my suggestion of a Wednesday night get together (a 4 day advance notice) and said it would have to wait a week or two. I interpreted that as a clear lack of interest. If someone wants you, they schedule you. There's no huge lag time. I also find that if I agree to dates with big lag times, the dates don't go well. So I deleted her number.
I'm wondering if anyone else has ever dealt with big lag times and how they deal with the situation.
i wouldnt necessarily assume that it's lack of interest. now if she would have been busy in 2 weeks then definitely it would have been time to delete her number , but now this early i think it's best to give people the benefit of the doubt since you dont know their schedule
Also remember this is a holiday week which most people have things booked weeks in advance.0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived higher. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived as having higher value, which is what someone looks for in a mate. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived as having higher value, which is what someone looks for in a mate. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.
Personally, I think if you stopped w/ all the guidelines and regulations/rules and what not, and just enjoyed life for what it is, you'd be happy. If you find someone you'd like to date, interest is there, then go for it. Who cares if it's a Friday.
I promise, your social life will not falter from one Friday night date. And you might meet someone who you find a connection with and can spend some more time with in the future.
Stop living life by a set of rules/guidelines. You miss out on a lot of the fun you could have with someone of the opposite sex.0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived as having higher value, which is what someone looks for in a mate. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.
Yeah but DM, she's just made herself scarce and you've deleted her number!!! :laugh: So, I still dont get your mentality at all :noway: . There is a big difference between being needy and being available!! The two aren't inter dependable. You can be available on a Saturday night and not needy at all.......or you can pretend you're not free next wednesday and be the neediest person on earth.........just that you're hiding it......
As I said, I dont play by these rules or guidelines or whatever you guys want to call it. If I like someone, I like them and want to see them. If I dont like the, I dont date them. As I'm not a needy person by any stretch of the imagination, your judgement would be totally misplaced. Both if you thought I wasnt interested cos I couldnt make this Weds, and if I said I was available on Saturday.............so.....I dunno........carry on doing whatever you do.............and perhaps think about changing if it's not working for you :flowerforyou:0 -
There have been many times I have disagreed with DM on things he feels,guessing he probably doesn`t really care
but for me a big thing is consistency...do I have the same opinion on an issue regardless of who is posting it.
Am I perfect in that and putting aside all bias...no,I am human and perfection was lost in Eden with the fall in my religious view but I do try.
If I think a guy is being a jerk I will say so and why,if a lady is being unreasonable or hypocritical then I will do the same.
What I see as discouraging is that almost every lady here has said to DM that he did it wrong but am quite sure if the gender role was reversed and it was a lady saying that a guy was being standoffish all or almost all would tell her to move on "he is just not that into you" to quote a vapid book.
I think everyone here really does want to some day have a happy and satisfying relationship with someone but am not sure that will ever happen if a person,male or female,regards the same behavior differently based on gender.
Oh well,have probably irritated everyone enough for the weekend with my soapbox musings,need to get sweet corn planted in the garden.0 -
What woman wants to be compared to barley instead of gold in a potential man's eyes? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.0
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What I see as discouraging is that almost every lady here has said to DM that he did it wrong but am quite sure if the gender role was reversed and it was a lady saying that a guy was being standoffish all or almost all would tell her to move on "he is just not that into you" to quote a vapid book.
Thank you Carl. I think your words have a lot of meaning.
What woman wants to be compared to barley instead of gold in a potential man's eyes? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.
I feel that you took the gold-barley analogy out of context. Being scarce for a man is good (to a point) in terms of building the attraction. A lot of men throw themselves at women. The one who shows more restraint has higher value. I was writing the analogy more for how a woman perceives a man, not how a man perceives a woman.
And can you go out on a Friday or Saturday night with someone the first time? Sure, any of us could. Maybe the only time that two people are going to have a match on their schedules is then. And also maybe they first met in person and got along exceptionally well. But these are rare circumstances. The “rules” that I talk work best in the majority of situations, but there’s flexibility. But too much flexibility can lead to negative outcomes. There's a science and an art to it all.0 -
What woman wants to be compared to barley instead of gold in a potential man's eyes? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.
I feel that you took the gold-barley analogy out of context. Being scarce for a man is good (to a point) in terms of building the attraction. A lot of men throw themselves at women. The one who shows more restraint has higher value. I was writing the analogy more for how a woman perceives a man, not how a man perceives a woman.
Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."And can you go out on a Friday or Saturday night with someone the first time? Sure, any of us could. Maybe the only time that two people are going to have a match on their schedules is then. And also maybe they first met in person and got along exceptionally well. But these are rare circumstances. The “rules” that I talk work best in the majority of situations, but there’s flexibility. But too much flexibility can lead to negative outcomes. There's a science and an art to it all.
I completely disagree. It's not a science or an art; there's real, and there's fake. You meet someone, you like her, you ask her out, and you move whatever you have to move to fit into HER schedule (you invited her out, remember?). If you don't like her enough to be flexible for HER, don't ask her out. Don't take her phone number. Don't pretend YOU'RE interested in HER if your reaction to waiting a week or two to see her is "She can't be interested, so I'll just delete her phone number."0 -
What I see as discouraging is that almost every lady here has said to DM that he did it wrong but am quite sure if the gender role was reversed and it was a lady saying that a guy was being standoffish all or almost all would tell her to move on "he is just not that into you" to quote a vapid book.
Thank you Carl. I think your words have a lot of meaning.What woman wants to be compared to barley instead of gold in a potential man's eyes? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.
I feel that you took the gold-barley analogy out of context. Being scarce for a man is good (to a point) in terms of building the attraction. A lot of men throw themselves at women. The one who shows more restraint has higher value. I was writing the analogy more for how a woman perceives a man, not how a man perceives a woman.
And can you go out on a Friday or Saturday night with someone the first time? Sure, any of us could. Maybe the only time that two people are going to have a match on their schedules is then. And also maybe they first met in person and got along exceptionally well. But these are rare circumstances. The “rules” that I talk work best in the majority of situations, but there’s flexibility. But too much flexibility can lead to negative outcomes. There's a science and an art to it all.
Building the attraction huh, let me just ask one simple question...
How's that working out for you?0 -
Building the attraction huh, let me just ask one simple question...
How's that working out for you?
In some ways, well. I cut through the garbage better than most.
How is whatever you are doing working out for you? Seems like if things were working real well for you, you'd have less time to snicker at me.0 -
Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
How would you feel if a man told you that he couldn't see you for 1-2 weeks before your first date? You'd drop him like a drop potato under the majority of circumstances. He wouldn't be doing what it takes to get you. Yet I'm being raked over the coals for doing the same thing.
I'm not sure hunting is the best analogy. Let's say we are talking about hunting ducks. Ducks do not make agreements with the duck hunter to be shot. Men pick, women determine who is worthy of her time. Seems like more of the pro sports free agency, though that's not entirely a perfect analogy either. But money can be a relevant consideration in both.:laugh:0 -
Let me see if I can state this more clearly ... What I want is to know that a man is interested in me. If he refuses to go out with me when I want to see him, which may very well be a Friday or Saturday, I don't take it as a sign that he's busy and important. I take it as a sign that I don't matter enough for him to care about MY schedule and MY preferences.
Amen!0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived as having higher value, which is what someone looks for in a mate. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.
Personally, I think if you stopped w/ all the guidelines and regulations/rules and what not, and just enjoyed life for what it is, you'd be happy. If you find someone you'd like to date, interest is there, then go for it. Who cares if it's a Friday.
I promise, your social life will not falter from one Friday night date. And you might meet someone who you find a connection with and can spend some more time with in the future.
Stop living life by a set of rules/guidelines. You miss out on a lot of the fun you could have with someone of the opposite sex.
Seriously, DM...just stop analyzing everything. If you meet someone tomorrow and you think she might be "barley" and not "gold", you are really selling yourself AND her short.
I don't see what is so scientific about it. If that's all it was, NONE OF US WOULD BE IN THIS FORUM RIGHT NOW!0 -
What woman wants to be compared to barley instead of gold in a potential man's eyes? That's just shooting yourself in the foot.
I feel that you took the gold-barley analogy out of context. Being scarce for a man is good (to a point) in terms of building the attraction. A lot of men throw themselves at women. The one who shows more restraint has higher value. I was writing the analogy more for how a woman perceives a man, not how a man perceives a woman.
Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."And can you go out on a Friday or Saturday night with someone the first time? Sure, any of us could. Maybe the only time that two people are going to have a match on their schedules is then. And also maybe they first met in person and got along exceptionally well. But these are rare circumstances. The “rules” that I talk work best in the majority of situations, but there’s flexibility. But too much flexibility can lead to negative outcomes. There's a science and an art to it all.
I completely disagree. It's not a science or an art; there's real, and there's fake. You meet someone, you like her, you ask her out, and you move whatever you have to move to fit into HER schedule (you invited her out, remember?). If you don't like her enough to be flexible for HER, don't ask her out. Don't take her phone number. Don't pretend YOU'RE interested in HER if your reaction to waiting a week or two to see her is "She can't be interested, so I'll just delete her phone number."
Words from a woman...very good advice. 0 -
Oh please... We're talking about the first few dates here. Only stupid people think they are more important than everyone else in the life of someone they haven't met yet.
Amen!Let me see if I can state this more clearly ... What I want is to know that a man is interested in me. If he refuses to go out with me when I want to see him, which may very well be a Friday or Saturday, I don't take it as a sign that he's busy and important. I take it as a sign that I don't matter enough for him to care about MY schedule and MY preferences.
But it's not like you care about HIS schedules and HIS preferences, right?
So the right answer is: you find a date you BOTH agree on. If the man can't do the Sat/Sun because he is busy, and the girl can only do Sat/Sun then well... tough luck or you guys are ready to wait for 2 weeks.
True. Double standards.Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
I understand why though, there is a difference between being available only next week (busy) or only next month (not interested). I guess for DM, 2 weeks is too much wait and he assumes someone SHOULD be able to have a slot for him in this time frame (matches his own availability/activity levels).
To be honest though, it doesn't matter too much how long you think is right or not, as you should meet someone who has compatible activity levels. If one is always out, the other one is always at home, it creates imbalance and problems.
Right :noway:And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
I think you need to get real here: if you let the highly prized man go because you didn't have the "women balls" to call him or pursue him, then you'll set yourself for disappointment.
Here is a little secret: valuable men are scarce too, so you can bet they will have a horde of women revolving around them and it might be a little bit hard to notice you in the background.
Anyway, FYI some women "hunt" as much as men do, and they're very successful. Although they, admittedly, rarely make the first step, you (as a man) "weirdly" bump into these women a lot more than statistics should normally allow.
Source: my own experience.
Your paragraph looks like it could have been written by my 12 years old sister after she just watched Titanic though. Cute.
Looks like this woman doesn't like the man much, though, given her inflexibility.I completely disagree. It's not a science or an art; there's real, and there's fake. You meet someone, you like her, you ask her out, and you move whatever you have to move to fit into HER schedule (you invited her out, remember?). If you don't like her enough to be flexible for HER, don't ask her out.
Double standards anyone?
We men like a bit of flexibility too, it's a sign for greater pleasures down the line!0 -
Really because of the perception that Friday and Saturday are prime social hours, particularly for those who don't have kids. It is not good for a man to give his best hours to an unproven person, plus the woman will know that if he's booking her Fri/Sat night, his other prospects probably are not red hot. Women like a little competition in the early going, keeps them on edge. When they're on edge, there's interested. Interested is way better than complete apathy.
You have an odd view on what women think. Maybe I'm the weird one, I don't know. If a guy led me to think that he had other "red hot prospects" that would be placed above me, that would really turn me off. I don't want to compete with other women, or be on edge. I think that making a woman think she isn't good enough to rate a Friday/Saturday night date would backfire. It's turned me off before, making me think "I'm good enough for a Wednesday but not for a Friday?" It predicts future behavior, I think, by making someone think that they're not worth sacrificing a precious weekend night.
Again, maybe it's just me.
It is the scarcity mentality. Why is gold worth more than barley? Gold is scarcer and has higher inherent value than barley. Being perceived like gold is better than being perceived like barley. Someone with scarce traits is going to be perceived higher. Scarcity in time is a good thing (to a degree). If someone or something is too available, their value is lower.
Women-what happened the last time that you dealt with a needy guy who was too available? Likely, he was kicked to the curb. The guy was who was harder to get, you likely put more effort in and probably wasn't kicked to the curb as fast.
Your analogy is pretty much incorrect. The UNIT value of gold is higher than the UNIT value of barley. However, the total economic surplus of barley is magnitudes greater than the total economic surplus of gold. Put another way, there is a whole lot of barley out there (or men or women), so the amount you are willing to pay for any particular UNIT is much lower. You can easily find an alternative if the price is too high.0 -
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.0 -
Yeah... No time for this either, so normally after a few dates of having my existence/individuality/personality "ignored" by the woman for her sole benefit, she can pretty much get the f*** off.This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
There are plenty of high maintenance/annoying girls out there, who want to be treated as princesses and don't want to have sex (no scarcity on that front trust me!), and want to have a man as their b*tch - so these girls are definitely barley for me. I can find another one quickly if I want to.
The girl that will not be too annoying (and also the girl who accept to have sex, funnily enough) will be gold to me. So I'll actually keep initiating contact with her and they've got much better chance of having a real relationship. Funny, eh?0 -
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
Many men can identify with what you described here. Good point you brought to light.0 -
Building the attraction huh, let me just ask one simple question...
How's that working out for you?
In some ways, well. I cut through the garbage better than most.
How is whatever you are doing working out for you? Seems like if things were working real well for you, you'd have less time to snicker at me.
Things are perfect, I wouldn't change it for all the gold and barley in the world. But, I'm on a computer several hours a day for work, so I have time to float around and question your tactics. I guess I could be one of those people who will sit here and tell you that what you're doing is fine and one day you'll find happiness, blah blah blah. But that's not my style.
I'm telling you, if you'd change, you'd see a difference.0 -
Oh please... We're talking about the first few dates here. Only stupid people think they are more important than everyone else in the life of someone they haven't met yet.
Amen!Let me see if I can state this more clearly ... What I want is to know that a man is interested in me. If he refuses to go out with me when I want to see him, which may very well be a Friday or Saturday, I don't take it as a sign that he's busy and important. I take it as a sign that I don't matter enough for him to care about MY schedule and MY preferences.
But it's not like you care about HIS schedules and HIS preferences, right?
So the right answer is: you find a date you BOTH agree on. If the man can't do the Sat/Sun because he is busy, and the girl can only do Sat/Sun then well... tough luck or you guys are ready to wait for 2 weeks.
True. Double standards.Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
I understand why though, there is a difference between being available only next week (busy) or only next month (not interested). I guess for DM, 2 weeks is too much wait and he assumes someone SHOULD be able to have a slot for him in this time frame (matches his own availability/activity levels).
To be honest though, it doesn't matter too much how long you think is right or not, as you should meet someone who has compatible activity levels. If one is always out, the other one is always at home, it creates imbalance and problems.
Right :noway:And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
I think you need to get real here: if you let the highly prized man go because you didn't have the "women balls" to call him or pursue him, then you'll set yourself for disappointment.
Here is a little secret: valuable men are scarce too, so you can bet they will have a horde of women revolving around them and it might be a little bit hard to notice you in the background.
Anyway, FYI some women "hunt" as much as men do, and they're very successful. Although they, admittedly, rarely make the first step, you (as a man) "weirdly" bump into these women a lot more than statistics should normally allow.
Source: my own experience.
Your paragraph looks like it could have been written by my 12 years old sister after she just watched Titanic though. Cute.
Looks like this woman doesn't like the man much, though, given her inflexibility.I completely disagree. It's not a science or an art; there's real, and there's fake. You meet someone, you like her, you ask her out, and you move whatever you have to move to fit into HER schedule (you invited her out, remember?). If you don't like her enough to be flexible for HER, don't ask her out.
Double standards anyone?
We men like a bit of flexibility too, it's a sign for greater pleasures down the line!
And just how do you know your experience means it's right and her experience isn't right? Maybe she's speaking from experience in what she's said. Did you even think of that?0 -
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
Well, yeah. Because for every "good" girl there are 10 dudes for her. You've got to set yourself apart from the rest, unless you're ok with mediocre for the rest of your life. But why would you do anything to settle for less than the best.0 -
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
If you had stopped at "So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman" you would have understood me perfectly. I absolutely believe that if you ask someone out, you are the one who needs to be flexible about scheduling. That doesn't mean you should put up with being strung along by a woman who is always "too busy" to go out with you or who never shows any appreciation for the effort you put in. It means that it's rude to ask someone on a date and then get pissy with that person when she says she can't do it on the exact date you wanted.
You should not ever lower yourself to "kissing a woman's *kitten*," which implies doing something you don't really think is right for someone you don't particularly care for. If it feels at all you like you are kissing her *kitten*, you're dating the wrong woman.
And that's the thing about the "right" woman ... the one who knocks you off your feet, who takes your breath away, who miraculously feels the same way about you, who never tires of looking into your eyes and telling you how much she appreciates how hard you try to make her feel special. You will not feel like you are doing all the work and getting nothing back from her. You will not feel like walking away because you didn't get sex after a few dates. You will not feel like a dog begging for her attention.
I know most of y'all are cynical, probably because you've been treated like garbage in the past, but when you lose the idea that all women are the same, and you meet the one who changes your mind, my antiquated ideas won't seem so crazy anymore. I'm not saying she'll think exactly like I do; I'm saying you will actively WANT to do whatever you can to make her happy, and it will not feel like a chore. But you're never going to get to that point with a woman if you're so absorbed in your own little world that you won't even go out with her on a day that works for her.0 -
The problem I see with your reasoning is that you've repeatedly stated that the man should be the man and ask the woman out and that the woman should just send cues that she is receptive to the man. So, since in your opinion the man does the asking out, he should show his interest by being accomodating to the woman. You've also stated before that if a guy is interested he'll show this or that. Your ideal seems to have the man being highly active and the woman highly passive. You also seem to repeatedly state that things are the man's responsibility since he did the active work. At some point this just becomes BS where you've rationalized all power and control to yourself as any failure is the result of a man's inability to be properly active. It is basically telling the guy he needs to kiss your *kitten* while all you have to do is evaluate whether he is doing it well enough or not.0
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Oh please... We're talking about the first few dates here. Only stupid people think they are more important than everyone else in the life of someone they haven't met yet.
And only *kitten* assume that actually wanting to have a choice about when you go on a date with someone means that you think you're more important than everyone else in that person's life.But it's not like you care about HIS schedules and HIS preferences, right?
Of course I care. My point is that you are feigning interest if you're willing to walk away because you wanted to go out on Wednesday, and she said she was busy. Honestly, cut the BS. If you met a woman you really liked and she said "I can't do Wednesday, what about next week?" would you say to her "Nope, sorry, that was your only shot?" Get serious. This is just as much about HIS lack of interest as hers.I think you need to get real here: if you let the highly prized man go because you didn't have the "women balls" to call him or pursue him, then you'll set yourself for disappointment.
Here is a little secret: valuable men are scarce too, so you can bet they will have a horde of women revolving around them and it might be a little bit hard to notice you in the background.
Hmmm, I'll have to share this little secret with the highly prized man I'm seeing who DID notice me in the background and pursued me like a man instead of cowering in the corner like a scared little boy, hoping I would come to him.Anyway, FYI some women "hunt" as much as men do, and they're very successful. Although they, admittedly, rarely make the first step, you (as a man) "weirdly" bump into these women a lot more than statistics should normally allow.
Source: my own experience.
What are they very successful at? I mean, if you're choosing not to be in a relationship with any of these women, they couldn't have been too successful at anything more than providing you with temporary amusement.0 -
What you all are missing is this........if there is someone you really like and really want to be with...you will work at it or compromise sometimes and you know what????????It won't seem like work.....if it does seem like work, it is probably NOT Ms./Mr. Right.0
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The problem I see with your reasoning is that you've repeatedly stated that the man should be the man and ask the woman out and that the woman should just send cues that she is receptive to the man. So, since in your opinion the man does the asking out, he should show his interest by being accomodating to the woman. You've also stated before that if a guy is interested he'll show this or that. Your ideal seems to have the man being highly active and the woman highly passive. You also seem to repeatedly state that things are the man's responsibility since he did the active work. At some point this just becomes BS where you've rationalized all power and control to yourself as any failure is the result of a man's inability to be properly active. It is basically telling the guy he needs to kiss your *kitten* while all you have to do is evaluate whether he is doing it well enough or not.
Power and control over what? A grown man can leave a relationship at any time he chooses, and if he chooses to leave, why does he give a crap whatever BS reason she comes up with that it's all his fault?
I don't want anyone to kiss my *kitten*. I want a man with a spine and full set of man parts who knows that pandering to me (i.e. going along with whatever I say just to get me to stop whining) is not going to work. But being a man and treating a woman as though you actually like her and actually want to make room for her in your schedule are not mutually exclusive concepts.0 -
Honestly, cut the BS. If you met a woman you really liked and she said "I can't do Wednesday, what about next week?" would you say to her "Nope, sorry, that was your only shot?" Get serious. This is just as much about HIS lack of interest as hers.
I think this is a perfect example of the power and control thing I was talking about. My experience is that if a woman says no to a date on Wednesday but maybe next week, when you call for something next week it goes to voicemail and is never returned. It's generally woman code for I don't want to go out with you but I don't have the guts to say so. Instead, I'll string you along until you get the hint. Here you are saying that if he doesn't call back, it just shows that he wasn't really interested. He should have done more. He failed in his active pursuit while all you did was sit back and evaluate his efforts.0 -
I think the basic bone of contention is saying essentially as I interpret it..."guys,if you really want her you should be willing to do anything and wait any amount of time for her and ladies you should let them or at the least not worry about making the same effort in return"
That just doesn`t seem to indicate a desire for a real partnership.
As I said to start,if the context was with an explanation as to why then I would say give it a chance.
It was explained that there wasn`t an explanation so in reading peoples responses here as well as lifes experience I would sense it was a kick the can down the road thing and then okay to question her interest.
In regards to "rules"I would say everyone has to do what they feel is right and accept the consequences good or bad.
In DMs case my opinion is that he is in danger of becoming like some golfers (Faldo,Tiger) that become so obsessed with the mechanics of a golf swing they suddenly lose the ability to actually compete in the game of golf.
Now DM gets flack for it because he has been honest and open about stating them in a cold (a list) manner but do not let anyone else kid themselves as to the fact that many here have a very rigid set of "rules" they will accept no alternative to as well.
The same applies,let everyone accept the results without complaint.
Just please stop with the it is wrong for one but okay for another based on which sex it is,that is intellectually dishonest and not respectful.
As it pertains to this...if you don`t think a guy is being suitably aggressive in pursuit so would be willing to cast hi off,don`t condemn a guy for the same.0
This discussion has been closed.