Your preferred date night...?
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Building the attraction huh, let me just ask one simple question...
How's that working out for you?
In some ways, well. I cut through the garbage better than most.
How is whatever you are doing working out for you? Seems like if things were working real well for you, you'd have less time to snicker at me.
Things are perfect, I wouldn't change it for all the gold and barley in the world. But, I'm on a computer several hours a day for work, so I have time to float around and question your tactics. I guess I could be one of those people who will sit here and tell you that what you're doing is fine and one day you'll find happiness, blah blah blah. But that's not my style.
I'm telling you, if you'd change, you'd see a difference.0 -
Oh please... We're talking about the first few dates here. Only stupid people think they are more important than everyone else in the life of someone they haven't met yet.
Amen!Let me see if I can state this more clearly ... What I want is to know that a man is interested in me. If he refuses to go out with me when I want to see him, which may very well be a Friday or Saturday, I don't take it as a sign that he's busy and important. I take it as a sign that I don't matter enough for him to care about MY schedule and MY preferences.
But it's not like you care about HIS schedules and HIS preferences, right?
So the right answer is: you find a date you BOTH agree on. If the man can't do the Sat/Sun because he is busy, and the girl can only do Sat/Sun then well... tough luck or you guys are ready to wait for 2 weeks.
True. Double standards.Am I the only one sensing a tremendous double standard here? It's okay for a man to make himself appear "scarce" and "valuable" by lying about his availability ("I can't date you on a Friday because then you'll think I don't have anything else going on."), but God forbid a woman is too busy to go out for a week or two. That just makes her difficult and uninterested, not "scarce," not "valuable." That's one of the most sexist things I've ever heard. And I don't want to hear "men and women are different." We're all human beings who deserve to be treated with respect.
I understand why though, there is a difference between being available only next week (busy) or only next month (not interested). I guess for DM, 2 weeks is too much wait and he assumes someone SHOULD be able to have a slot for him in this time frame (matches his own availability/activity levels).
To be honest though, it doesn't matter too much how long you think is right or not, as you should meet someone who has compatible activity levels. If one is always out, the other one is always at home, it creates imbalance and problems.
Right :noway:And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
I think you need to get real here: if you let the highly prized man go because you didn't have the "women balls" to call him or pursue him, then you'll set yourself for disappointment.
Here is a little secret: valuable men are scarce too, so you can bet they will have a horde of women revolving around them and it might be a little bit hard to notice you in the background.
Anyway, FYI some women "hunt" as much as men do, and they're very successful. Although they, admittedly, rarely make the first step, you (as a man) "weirdly" bump into these women a lot more than statistics should normally allow.
Source: my own experience.
Your paragraph looks like it could have been written by my 12 years old sister after she just watched Titanic though. Cute.
Looks like this woman doesn't like the man much, though, given her inflexibility.I completely disagree. It's not a science or an art; there's real, and there's fake. You meet someone, you like her, you ask her out, and you move whatever you have to move to fit into HER schedule (you invited her out, remember?). If you don't like her enough to be flexible for HER, don't ask her out.
Double standards anyone?
We men like a bit of flexibility too, it's a sign for greater pleasures down the line!
And just how do you know your experience means it's right and her experience isn't right? Maybe she's speaking from experience in what she's said. Did you even think of that?0 -
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
Well, yeah. Because for every "good" girl there are 10 dudes for her. You've got to set yourself apart from the rest, unless you're ok with mediocre for the rest of your life. But why would you do anything to settle for less than the best.0 -
And while we're on the subject of the nature of men and women, I think you've got it totally backward. Men are the hunters, women the hunted. What is scare is precious, and what is precious will be highly sought-after and highly valued. A scarce, precious, highly prized woman will never be caught by a man who pretends to be too busy and too important for her. She will be caught by the man who says "I want you, and whatever I have to do to make you mine, I'll do it."
This is just ridiculous. So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman and go into complete *kitten*-kissing mode to do whatever he has to do to make her his woman while the girl just sits by and decides if he is worthy or not? Did you ever think that this kind of BS is why guys won't wait more than a few dates to get laid or that they bail soon afterwards? It doesn't take long to get resentful and sometimes vindictive for being made to feel like a dog begging for its owners attention.
If you had stopped at "So the guy needs to man up to ask the woman out and then do all the work to accomodate the woman" you would have understood me perfectly. I absolutely believe that if you ask someone out, you are the one who needs to be flexible about scheduling. That doesn't mean you should put up with being strung along by a woman who is always "too busy" to go out with you or who never shows any appreciation for the effort you put in. It means that it's rude to ask someone on a date and then get pissy with that person when she says she can't do it on the exact date you wanted.
You should not ever lower yourself to "kissing a woman's *kitten*," which implies doing something you don't really think is right for someone you don't particularly care for. If it feels at all you like you are kissing her *kitten*, you're dating the wrong woman.
And that's the thing about the "right" woman ... the one who knocks you off your feet, who takes your breath away, who miraculously feels the same way about you, who never tires of looking into your eyes and telling you how much she appreciates how hard you try to make her feel special. You will not feel like you are doing all the work and getting nothing back from her. You will not feel like walking away because you didn't get sex after a few dates. You will not feel like a dog begging for her attention.
I know most of y'all are cynical, probably because you've been treated like garbage in the past, but when you lose the idea that all women are the same, and you meet the one who changes your mind, my antiquated ideas won't seem so crazy anymore. I'm not saying she'll think exactly like I do; I'm saying you will actively WANT to do whatever you can to make her happy, and it will not feel like a chore. But you're never going to get to that point with a woman if you're so absorbed in your own little world that you won't even go out with her on a day that works for her.0 -
The problem I see with your reasoning is that you've repeatedly stated that the man should be the man and ask the woman out and that the woman should just send cues that she is receptive to the man. So, since in your opinion the man does the asking out, he should show his interest by being accomodating to the woman. You've also stated before that if a guy is interested he'll show this or that. Your ideal seems to have the man being highly active and the woman highly passive. You also seem to repeatedly state that things are the man's responsibility since he did the active work. At some point this just becomes BS where you've rationalized all power and control to yourself as any failure is the result of a man's inability to be properly active. It is basically telling the guy he needs to kiss your *kitten* while all you have to do is evaluate whether he is doing it well enough or not.0
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Oh please... We're talking about the first few dates here. Only stupid people think they are more important than everyone else in the life of someone they haven't met yet.
And only *kitten* assume that actually wanting to have a choice about when you go on a date with someone means that you think you're more important than everyone else in that person's life.But it's not like you care about HIS schedules and HIS preferences, right?
Of course I care. My point is that you are feigning interest if you're willing to walk away because you wanted to go out on Wednesday, and she said she was busy. Honestly, cut the BS. If you met a woman you really liked and she said "I can't do Wednesday, what about next week?" would you say to her "Nope, sorry, that was your only shot?" Get serious. This is just as much about HIS lack of interest as hers.I think you need to get real here: if you let the highly prized man go because you didn't have the "women balls" to call him or pursue him, then you'll set yourself for disappointment.
Here is a little secret: valuable men are scarce too, so you can bet they will have a horde of women revolving around them and it might be a little bit hard to notice you in the background.
Hmmm, I'll have to share this little secret with the highly prized man I'm seeing who DID notice me in the background and pursued me like a man instead of cowering in the corner like a scared little boy, hoping I would come to him.Anyway, FYI some women "hunt" as much as men do, and they're very successful. Although they, admittedly, rarely make the first step, you (as a man) "weirdly" bump into these women a lot more than statistics should normally allow.
Source: my own experience.
What are they very successful at? I mean, if you're choosing not to be in a relationship with any of these women, they couldn't have been too successful at anything more than providing you with temporary amusement.0 -
What you all are missing is this........if there is someone you really like and really want to be with...you will work at it or compromise sometimes and you know what????????It won't seem like work.....if it does seem like work, it is probably NOT Ms./Mr. Right.0
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The problem I see with your reasoning is that you've repeatedly stated that the man should be the man and ask the woman out and that the woman should just send cues that she is receptive to the man. So, since in your opinion the man does the asking out, he should show his interest by being accomodating to the woman. You've also stated before that if a guy is interested he'll show this or that. Your ideal seems to have the man being highly active and the woman highly passive. You also seem to repeatedly state that things are the man's responsibility since he did the active work. At some point this just becomes BS where you've rationalized all power and control to yourself as any failure is the result of a man's inability to be properly active. It is basically telling the guy he needs to kiss your *kitten* while all you have to do is evaluate whether he is doing it well enough or not.
Power and control over what? A grown man can leave a relationship at any time he chooses, and if he chooses to leave, why does he give a crap whatever BS reason she comes up with that it's all his fault?
I don't want anyone to kiss my *kitten*. I want a man with a spine and full set of man parts who knows that pandering to me (i.e. going along with whatever I say just to get me to stop whining) is not going to work. But being a man and treating a woman as though you actually like her and actually want to make room for her in your schedule are not mutually exclusive concepts.0 -
Honestly, cut the BS. If you met a woman you really liked and she said "I can't do Wednesday, what about next week?" would you say to her "Nope, sorry, that was your only shot?" Get serious. This is just as much about HIS lack of interest as hers.
I think this is a perfect example of the power and control thing I was talking about. My experience is that if a woman says no to a date on Wednesday but maybe next week, when you call for something next week it goes to voicemail and is never returned. It's generally woman code for I don't want to go out with you but I don't have the guts to say so. Instead, I'll string you along until you get the hint. Here you are saying that if he doesn't call back, it just shows that he wasn't really interested. He should have done more. He failed in his active pursuit while all you did was sit back and evaluate his efforts.0 -
I think the basic bone of contention is saying essentially as I interpret it..."guys,if you really want her you should be willing to do anything and wait any amount of time for her and ladies you should let them or at the least not worry about making the same effort in return"
That just doesn`t seem to indicate a desire for a real partnership.
As I said to start,if the context was with an explanation as to why then I would say give it a chance.
It was explained that there wasn`t an explanation so in reading peoples responses here as well as lifes experience I would sense it was a kick the can down the road thing and then okay to question her interest.
In regards to "rules"I would say everyone has to do what they feel is right and accept the consequences good or bad.
In DMs case my opinion is that he is in danger of becoming like some golfers (Faldo,Tiger) that become so obsessed with the mechanics of a golf swing they suddenly lose the ability to actually compete in the game of golf.
Now DM gets flack for it because he has been honest and open about stating them in a cold (a list) manner but do not let anyone else kid themselves as to the fact that many here have a very rigid set of "rules" they will accept no alternative to as well.
The same applies,let everyone accept the results without complaint.
Just please stop with the it is wrong for one but okay for another based on which sex it is,that is intellectually dishonest and not respectful.
As it pertains to this...if you don`t think a guy is being suitably aggressive in pursuit so would be willing to cast hi off,don`t condemn a guy for the same.0 -
Honestly, cut the BS. If you met a woman you really liked and she said "I can't do Wednesday, what about next week?" would you say to her "Nope, sorry, that was your only shot?" Get serious. This is just as much about HIS lack of interest as hers.
I think this is a perfect example of the power and control thing I was talking about. My experience is that if a woman says no to a date on Wednesday but maybe next week, when you call for something next week it goes to voicemail and is never returned. It's generally woman code for I don't want to go out with you but I don't have the guts to say so. Instead, I'll string you along until you get the hint. Here you are saying that if he doesn't call back, it just shows that he wasn't really interested. He should have done more. He failed in his active pursuit while all you did was sit back and evaluate his efforts.
In this example aren't both the guy and girl doing the same thing in not contacting the other party to show they are not interested?0 -
No. The guy asked the girl out. She came up with an excuse not to go out and left it up to him to make an additional effort for a date.0
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No. The guy asked the girl out. She came up with an excuse not to go out and left it up to him to make an additional effort for a date.
But the end result is the same and both are just poofing. In either case if they were interested with the other they wouldn't have poofed.0 -
The guy was interested enough to get up the nerve top ask her out. She came up with an excuse. She expects him to keep pursuing. Maybe he will maybe he won't. I think most women have used a similar excuse to blow off a guy and I think most guys have experienced a brush off with a similar excuse. It's disingenuous to say that if the guy was interested enough he would have tried harder. If the girl was interested she could have called the guy to set up a date next week. He already showed he was interested. Instead most women would prefer to take a passive role and keep the onus on the guy while the woman just has to evaluate whether he put forth enough effort to satisfy her.0
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Hey Anna,
She claimed her whole week was booked and suggested a 1-2 week wait. Even if I saw her next weekend, that's still almost 2 weeks to get on someone's schedule for just a first date. I just find that to be a long lag. And if that takes that long to get a first date, how could I possibly expect to get integrated into her life? So that's why I interpreted lack of interest. I was going to call her out on her little game, but instead decided to go with the delete button.
Also, I suspect that she is older than I am too, and I'm more interested in younger women.
Here's what I think happened...
I think you asked her out for a Wednesday night, she suggest a Friday or Saturday the following weekend, or even the next weekend, and you said no based on your guidelines.
Then you got upset when she said if it was going to be a week night that it'd be 1-2 weeks, in which case, she could have been the perfect girl for you and you're out a date w/ her because of a Fri/Sat night rule.
Am I close?0 -
This is getting blown way out of proportion - there seem to be a LOT of assumptions going on too.
What we know is he asked her out, she said that she would be unable to for another week or two. I can understand that, when I was training for my half marathon the week before the race I was completely unavailable. If the two were talking back and forth I'd say there's not really an immediate need to set up another time suggestion immediately - however at that point the ball is in her court. If she came back a week later and said "PHEW! Glad that's done, want to meet up tomorrow for dinner?" Then it's not a big deal is it? Yes, sometimes this is a tactic for someone that doesn't have the guts to just say "I'm not interested" but to just assume doesn't really get anyone anywhere.
Sometimes you don't know right away what day is going to be available. On that note, if you don't want to be with a girl that's so busy you might have to wait a week, that is completely and totally fair. If you want someone that has the time to be more spontaneous and flexible then yeah, this girl is not for you. Still - no one is in the wrong, it's just not a match. Assuming interest or disinterest or she's stringing him along or he's not doing enough is coming to these really definitive conclusions based on practically no information.
Finally, DM, it IS completely hypocritical of you to say that you have no problem pretending to be busy when you're not because you want the girl to think you're some playa pimp (I might be paraphrasing), but the moment a girl is busy you delete her number. I've seen this brought up a couple times and you've completely dismissed it. Is there a reason it's okay for you to have a life but not her?0 -
So no woman deserves the benefit of the doubt just because your general experience has been that if a woman says "maybe next week," she ends up never returning your calls?
Maybe the woman in DM's story really was busy. I've made a date with a guy a month in advance because we were both incredibly busy with work and personal commitments (real personal commitments, like weddings, family events, trips with friends, etc., not just "well, I'm going out drinking with my friends for the 10th time this month"). We both liked each other enough to wait instead of just writing each other off because our immediate schedules didn't work out. And it actually made me more excited to see him.
I guess it is asking a lot these days to expect a guy to treat me like I'm not some random chick he met in a bar who may or may not be worth any special effort. In the world of online dating, I'm sure there are a lot more duds for most people, and I can see how one might become jaded. Then again, maybe I'm just an optimist and prefer to hope for the best than to operate on assumptions of the worst.
But let it not be said that I don't make an effort for a man who makes an effort for me. The one I mentioned in an earlier post ... I've asked him out twice. I've done the planning and the arranging and the paying. I've made it clear how much I appreciate what he has done and continues to do for me. That's probably a major part of the reason he doesn't mind going out of his way for me.0 -
I'm sorry but if I asked someone out and they said they couldn't meet up with me for like 2 weeks and didn't really give a reason I would be gone too. I don't really want to date someone who's never available anyway. And apparently women like guys to pursue them, but isn't it pathetic and a little creepy for guys to wait around for weeks to go out on a date with someone they barely know and shows little signs of interest? You have to understand that most women would rather just lead you on for weeks than tell you they're not interested. How are we supposed to tell the difference?
Also, everybody has different tastes. Someone who may be viewed as highly prized to someone may not be viewed that way to someone else. And if you don't think the person you're dating is highly prized than you probably shouldn't be dating them anyway.0 -
No. The guy asked the girl out. She came up with an excuse not to go out and left it up to him to make an additional effort for a date.
How do you know it was an excuse? I mean, seriously, you're making assumptions. And you know what they say when you assume...?0 -
The guy was interested enough to get up the nerve top ask her out. She came up with an excuse. She expects him to keep pursuing. Maybe he will maybe he won't. I think most women have used a similar excuse to blow off a guy and I think most guys have experienced a brush off with a similar excuse. It's disingenuous to say that if the guy was interested enough he would have tried harder. If the girl was interested she could have called the guy to set up a date next week. He already showed he was interested. Instead most women would prefer to take a passive role and keep the onus on the guy while the woman just has to evaluate whether he put forth enough effort to satisfy her.
Think of it like this...
In the animal kingdom, males fight for the females. They show why they're deserving of her as a mate. There are no rules about singing your love song on Friday vs Tuesday, there is no "well maybe i'll play hard to get" you play hard to get and the other male gets the female. You do what you can do to show the female your attention in her.
We're really not that far off from the way animals pick a mate. It just so happens we're more likely to make it confusing and ridiculous.0
