Forcing Your Child to be Vegan/Vegetarian.
Replies
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My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?0 -
My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?0 -
Thank you for your comments. I condensed what I had to say about Kant because I did not expect that anyone on this board would be so familiar with his philosophy.
Please also understand that knowledge of biology and psychology during Kant's time (18th century) was extremely primitive as compared with today. His assertions about animals were undoubtedly based on perceptions of that day, and as you can imagine, I agree with some of them and disagree with some.
http://www.beholders.org/mind/environmental/149-talkingkoko.html
As you can see from my link, some animals can be shown to be logical and able to use language to communicate with other species such as humans. Needless to say, the article also shows how compassionate these creatures are. These are well developed sentient beings who have as much intrinsic right to live as we do. Indeed, Koko, has more ability to communicate than some retarded humans. Therefore, the categorical imperative should be broadened, even by your own criteria, to include sentient beings. I can think of no logical argument to exclude them.
I missed this one (busy thread!).
In reply, I would say that if there is good reason to think that other animals besides humans are capable of the kind of “transcendent” thinking, reflection, understanding, etc., that we humans are capable of doing, then it logically follows that they should be included in the range of creatures protected by law as having a “right to life.” I still don’t see evidence that this is the case, however. The story on Koko the gorilla is a very optimistic one that doesn’t report the serious debates surrounding Koko’s real ability (when compared to humans). Apparently very little has been done to scientifically test the claims that have been made and much (or nearly all) of the interpretation of Koko’s sign-language is left to the handlers. Outside objective tests have not been done (as far as I know). The on-line interviews with Koko that are available on-line are more humorous than convincing. Most of the time Koko responds to questions with something that makes no logical sense and the few times there might be some connection the meaning is debatable (and is also typically surrounded by the use of signs that don’t make sense in that context). I don’t know all the facts but I certainly haven’t seen anything that suggests that Koko “understands” in the sense that I am talking about understanding (transcendent understanding).
I am not sure what you mean exactly by "Transcendent understanding" but two obvious questions come to mind:
1. How do you know what an animal is capable of thinking, and,
2. If a creature shares 98 % of his DNA with us (note: Kant did not know what DNA was), and if that creature is demonstrably capable of love, compassion, communication, friendship, and virtually everything we are capable of and everything that makes life worth living, why would it deserve to be slaughtered and eaten?0 -
My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.0 -
My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
We're the top of the food chain? Really? Come and tell me that when you fight a shark with your bare hands.
1. Carnivorous animals actually NEED meat to survive.
2. The difference between us and other animals are that we have the capability to recognise the difference between right and wrong. Oh, and they don't breed animals in their billions and torture them everyday, eventually kill them then send them off to supermarkets, packaged in foil to be sold to greedy humans.0 -
My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.
^You beat me to it.0 -
I'm pretty sure what puts us at the top is our intellect. :huh:You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.0 -
1. So if I'm one of those people who gets sick if they try to keep a vegetarian diet even if they are theoretically doing everything right, I still get to eat meat, yes?My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
We're the top of the food chain? Really? Come and tell me that when you fight a shark with your bare hands.
1. Carnivorous animals actually NEED meat to survive.
2. The difference between us and other animals are that we have the capability to recognise the difference between right and wrong. Oh, and they don't breed animals in their billions and torture them everyday, eventually kill them then send them off to supermarkets, packaged in foil to be sold to greedy humans.
2. The fact that I eat meat means that you think I am a murderer, a torturer, and greedy, right? So then don't you have a moral obligation to kill me so that I stop?
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
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I'm pretty sure what puts us at the top is our intellect. :huh:You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.
So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
Our intellect allows us to create and use weapons to make up for our physical shortcomings. But without that weapon, you are not at the top of the chain.0 -
For the record, while I am a vegetarian, I do not smack omnivores upside the head about it. I choose not to eat meat, but people still eat it in my house. Sometimes I even cook it for them.
I was not vegetarian until my daughter was a teenager, so she eats what she likes, though she's probably 90% vegetarian on her own. Had I been vegetarian from her birth, I would have raised her vegetarian. Just like my mother learned to cook from her Italian mother so we ate a lot of Italian food because that was our family culture. Nothing wrong with either choice.0 -
I'm pretty sure what puts us at the top is our intellect. :huh:You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.
So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
Our intellect allows us to create and use weapons to make up for our physical shortcomings. But without that weapon, you are not at the top of the chain.
^this.0 -
1. So if I'm one of those people who gets sick if they try to keep a vegetarian diet even if they are theoretically doing everything right, I still get to eat meat, yes?My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
We're the top of the food chain? Really? Come and tell me that when you fight a shark with your bare hands.
1. Carnivorous animals actually NEED meat to survive.
2. The difference between us and other animals are that we have the capability to recognise the difference between right and wrong. Oh, and they don't breed animals in their billions and torture them everyday, eventually kill them then send them off to supermarkets, packaged in foil to be sold to greedy humans.
2. The fact that I eat meat means that you think I am a murderer, a torturer, and greedy, right? So then don't you have a moral obligation to kill me so that I stop?
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
1. I always find it funny when people say that.
2. I don't think you're a murderer. You're not killing the animal. You're an accessory in its murder and torture. I think humans as a species are greedy, so yes, I think you're greedy. I think I'm greedy because I still eat diary, despite knowing it's just as bad as the meat industry.
LOL. Woman murderer? How does that make sense? What woman is getting murdered.
ETA; And, no, I don't have a moral obligation to kill anyone.0 -
Surely our intellect would tell us NOT to be on the African savannah without a gun or other means of protection.So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?0 -
Surely our intellect would tell us NOT to be on the African savannah without a gun or other means of protection.So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
Good grief.0 -
I'm pretty sure what puts us at the top is our intellect. :huh:You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.
So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
Our intellect allows us to create and use weapons to make up for our physical shortcomings. But without that weapon, you are not at the top of the chain.
We are at the top of the food chain because we are a species that is not hunted for food and are not a food source of another species. We do however hunt and survive on nearly any animal species.
The African savannah is a stretch... a spider could kill me but I'm still higher up on the food chain.0 -
Surely our intellect would tell us NOT to be on the African savannah without a gun or other means of protection.So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
That doesn't make us the top of the food chain. An animal can usually tell when not to put itself in danger. It doesn't mean it's the top of the food chain.0 -
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
You lost me here.0 -
You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Your point is?0 -
I'm pretty sure what puts us at the top is our intellect. :huh:You're at the top of the food chain in front of a lion, tiger, alligator, etc., only if you happen to have a weapon in your hand.
Just sayin'.
So if you're out on the African savannah without a gun and a lion comes around, you're going to talk it to death?
Our intellect allows us to create and use weapons to make up for our physical shortcomings. But without that weapon, you are not at the top of the chain.
We are at the top of the food chain because we are a species that is not hunted for food and are not a food source of another species. We do however hunt and survive on nearly any animal species.
The African savannah is a stretch... a spider could kill me but I'm still higher up on the food chain.
We would be hunted if we lived in the wild like the rest of the animal kindgdom.
We are not naturally at the top of the food chain.
ETA; If any organism is at the top of the food chain, it's bacteria.0 -
1. Why's it funny? I know several people in that situation, plus, although I have never tried being vegetarian, I start feeling sick if I don't eat meat for about a week.
1. So if I'm one of those people who gets sick if they try to keep a vegetarian diet even if they are theoretically doing everything right, I still get to eat meat, yes?My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
We're the top of the food chain? Really? Come and tell me that when you fight a shark with your bare hands.
1. Carnivorous animals actually NEED meat to survive.
2. The difference between us and other animals are that we have the capability to recognise the difference between right and wrong. Oh, and they don't breed animals in their billions and torture them everyday, eventually kill them then send them off to supermarkets, packaged in foil to be sold to greedy humans.
2. The fact that I eat meat means that you think I am a murderer, a torturer, and greedy, right? So then don't you have a moral obligation to kill me so that I stop?
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
1. I always find it funny when people say that.
2. I don't think you're a murderer. You're not killing the animal. You're an accessory in its murder and torture. I think humans as a species are greedy, so yes, I think you're greedy. I think I'm greedy because I still eat diary, despite knowing it's just as bad as the meat industry.
LOL. Woman murderer? How does that make sense? What woman is getting murdered.
ETA; And, no, I don't have a moral obligation to kill anyone.
2. I've killed animals. I go fishing, and I spray my apartment with neurotoxins so that I don't have cockroaches, water bugs, or ants.
The woman being murdered is the one who dies because she can't get access to a medically necessary abortion because someone somewhere decided for some baffling reason that a fetus is a person. At best, it's criminally negligent homicide.0 -
We are not naturally at the top of the food chain.
Of course we are. The food chain isn't just who/what eats who/what. It's also about intelligence. Humans as a whole are smarter than other species.0 -
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
You lost me here.
As much as I understand people are trying to draw comparisons, I really think this one is a super-hot potato. I would suggest creating another thread to discuss this topic since I really think it can get down and dirty really fast.0 -
Fair enough. Although I think we already had that thread regarding spina bifida. :flowerforyou:By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
You lost me here.
As much as I understand people are trying to draw comparisons, I really think this one is a super-hot potato. I would suggest creating another thread to discuss this topic since I really think it can get down and dirty really fast.0 -
The woman being murdered is the one who dies because she can't get access to a medically necessary abortion because someone somewhere decided for some baffling reason that a fetus is a person.
I'm not touching this one. Too nonsensical to even begin this dicussion.0 -
The woman being murdered is the one who dies because she can't get access to a medically necessary abortion because someone somewhere decided for some baffling reason that a fetus is a person.
I'm not touching this one. Too nonsensical to even begin this dicussion.
These are some strong opinions, and really tangential to the topic.0 -
The woman being murdered is the one who dies because she can't get access to a medically necessary abortion because someone somewhere decided for some baffling reason that a fetus is a person.
But if she chooses to go and get a backdoor abortion and dies, well, I'm sorry to say, but it was her choice.
I don't see us saying "yes, let's give lifestyle choice abortions to 34 week pregnant ladies because they might get a backdoor abortion!".
The baffling idea that a fetus is a person? Just like the baffling idea that a being with a beating heart, its own set of DNA and its own body is not deserving of any rights, but ya know ...0 -
We are not naturally at the top of the food chain.
Of course we are. The food chain isn't just who/what eats who/what. It's also about intelligence. Humans as a whole are smarter than other species.
Sources?0 -
If you read the bible objectively, you will see that God originally commanded that man be vegetarian. (Genesis 1:29)
Jesus himself never ate meat (the Docetic Christ ate fish to show that he was real, but that was after the crucificion.)
Honestly, the Early Church is one of my favorite subjects to talk about, but I rarely get the opportunity. (My own beliefs would be heretical in any modern dogmatic Church: I tend to look at what the early Church was really like, not the Post Nicean deconstruction of it.)
Your comments are brief but filled with problems.
Concerning Genesis 1:29, I don’t see a command here. God simply gave plants that would be good as human food. There is no prohibition of eating meat there.
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Okay, why do you suppose the author put that in? It must be there for a reason. It doesn't say, "Have the fruits of the trees after you've finished hacking up a cow and bbqing it."
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The Bible never says Jesus did not eat meat. He multiplied the loaves and FISH to feed the multitudes (implying he doesn’t have a problem with people eating fish).
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Ah, but two out of three versions of the Gospel do NOT say he fed the masses FISH, they say he fed the masses bread and relish. The most common relish of that time was made with ground olives, not fish. This is something you will not notice unless you read koine Greek.
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He celebrated the Passover Meal throughout his life and shortly before his death (the Passover Meal was centered around eating Lamb)
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Jesus was a Nazarene (member of a sect, not someone born in Nazareth) and as such, was vegetarian, He never ate lamb as part of his Passover Seder.
***************
and certainly never expressed an objection to this central celebration of the Hebrew religion. Not sure what you mean by the “Docetic” Christ (normal Docetism refers to the belief that Jesus was not really a man but only appeared to be so), but I believe that Jesus had a true, transformed material body after the resurrection.
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Christ appeared as docetic, and His disciples first believed He was a ghost.
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Concerning your third paragraph, since I don’t see Nicea or the orthodox theological developments that followed that council as being contrary to “what the early Church was really like,”
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I guess you never heard of Marcion, the Gnostics, or the Jewish Christians.
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I obviously will disagree with your admittedly “heretical” notions on that!0 -
1. Why's it funny? I know several people in that situation, plus, although I have never tried being vegetarian, I start feeling sick if I don't eat meat for about a week.
1. So if I'm one of those people who gets sick if they try to keep a vegetarian diet even if they are theoretically doing everything right, I still get to eat meat, yes?My child has been raised as I have, by the food pyramid, including meats.
In my opinion, animals were created to provide meat for human nourishment. Just as corn, beans, grains and various other things that grow were created to do the same. If my son chooses to live a vegetarian or vegan lifestyles. That is perfectly fine by me. He can have what I make for dinner minus the meat or he can prepare his own food until he moves out.
I get some meat from the grocery but also from a local butcher when I can. My dad worked a second job there when I was a child. I've seen the local cows being brought in and watched them get slaughtered before being processed. Has never bothered me.
Animals were created to provide human nourishment? Just humans, then? No other animals. What about us? Were we 'created' to provide nourishment to animals such as lions and our other predetors?
Considering humans are at the top of the food chain, no. Animals such as lions eat other animals below them on the food chain.
Are carnivorous animals guilty of murder in your opinion then? Since they survive on preying on smaller animals?
We're the top of the food chain? Really? Come and tell me that when you fight a shark with your bare hands.
1. Carnivorous animals actually NEED meat to survive.
2. The difference between us and other animals are that we have the capability to recognise the difference between right and wrong. Oh, and they don't breed animals in their billions and torture them everyday, eventually kill them then send them off to supermarkets, packaged in foil to be sold to greedy humans.
2. The fact that I eat meat means that you think I am a murderer, a torturer, and greedy, right? So then don't you have a moral obligation to kill me so that I stop?
By the way, the fact that you are anti-abortion makes you a woman-murderer in my eyes. My god says so.
1. I always find it funny when people say that.
2. I don't think you're a murderer. You're not killing the animal. You're an accessory in its murder and torture. I think humans as a species are greedy, so yes, I think you're greedy. I think I'm greedy because I still eat diary, despite knowing it's just as bad as the meat industry.
LOL. Woman murderer? How does that make sense? What woman is getting murdered.
ETA; And, no, I don't have a moral obligation to kill anyone.
2. I've killed animals. I go fishing, and I spray my apartment with neurotoxins so that I don't have cockroaches, water bugs, or ants.
At best, it's criminally negligent homicide.
1. LOL.
2. Well, then, I think you have murdered.
LOL at this; At best, it's criminally negligent homicide.0 -
If you read the bible objectively, you will see that God originally commanded that man be vegetarian. (Genesis 1:29)
Jesus himself never ate meat (the Docetic Christ ate fish to show that he was real, but that was after the crucificion.)
Honestly, the Early Church is one of my favorite subjects to talk about, but I rarely get the opportunity. (My own beliefs would be heretical in any modern dogmatic Church: I tend to look at what the early Church was really like, not the Post Nicean deconstruction of it.)
Your comments are brief but filled with problems.
Concerning Genesis 1:29, I don’t see a command here. God simply gave plants that would be good as human food. There is no prohibition of eating meat there.
*****************
Okay, why do you suppose the author put that in? It must be there for a reason. It doesn't say, "Have the fruits of the trees after you've finished hacking up a cow and bbqing it."
*****************
The Bible never says Jesus did not eat meat. He multiplied the loaves and FISH to feed the multitudes (implying he doesn’t have a problem with people eating fish).
****************
Ah, but two out of three versions of the Gospel do NOT say he fed the masses FISH, they say he fed the masses bread and relish. The most common relish of that time was made with ground olives, not fish. This is something you will not notice unless you read koine Greek.
****************
He celebrated the Passover Meal throughout his life and shortly before his death (the Passover Meal was centered around eating Lamb)
***************
Jesus was a Nazarene (member of a sect, not someone born in Nazareth) and as such, was vegetarian, He never ate lamb as part of his Passover Seder.
***************
and certainly never expressed an objection to this central celebration of the Hebrew religion. Not sure what you mean by the “Docetic” Christ (normal Docetism refers to the belief that Jesus was not really a man but only appeared to be so), but I believe that Jesus had a true, transformed material body after the resurrection.
***********
Christ appeared as docetic, and His disciples first believed He was a ghost.
************
Concerning your third paragraph, since I don’t see Nicea or the orthodox theological developments that followed that council as being contrary to “what the early Church was really like,”
*************
I guess you never heard of Marcion, the Gnostics, or the Jewish Christians.
*************
I obviously will disagree with your admittedly “heretical” notions on that!
Nazarene in the 1st Century was used to reference the early Christians. The sect of Jewish Christians that you are referring to were from the 4th Century. I believe you were trying to say that Jesus was believed to be an Essene, who were vegetarian and communal and existed around the supposed lifetime of Jesus.0
This discussion has been closed.