What it feels like for a girl.
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If asked what their preferences would be, women would say: someone who pays. Actually I would say the same, as a man.I was just saying what has been the norm here and honestly it has been kind of eye opening.
Have never been reluctant to pay for a dinner,just seemed to be a nice thing to do but when it has been viewed as a must or else issue then suddenly in a ladies eyes it is not a thing to be appreciated but a test to pass and that surprised me.
I guess I am a bit idealistic in thinking that both parties should be equally looking to impress the other.
Is it a deal breaker? No. Or it might be for some, but it isn't for most women. Hence the word "neutral" I used. Sure, they *prefer* when it is paid, but it is not a deal breaker.
Thus it is still a nice and meaningful thing to do (you are not compelled to do this since this is not a deal breaker, it is YOUR choice to do it), as no women will hold a grudge against you for not doing it.
And if you're worried about women who are in it for free diner, the best strategy is not to pay her share on the first date. This way, if this isn't a deal breaker for her, and she comes back next time - for you NOT for the free food, you can treat her all you want in the subsequent dates. See how you can make tests for the women to pass yourself?
And yes, both parties should be equally looking to "impress" the other, if not the woman is just manipulating you.0 -
If asked what their preferences would be, women would say: someone who pays. Actually I would say the same, as a man.I was just saying what has been the norm here and honestly it has been kind of eye opening.
Have never been reluctant to pay for a dinner,just seemed to be a nice thing to do but when it has been viewed as a must or else issue then suddenly in a ladies eyes it is not a thing to be appreciated but a test to pass and that surprised me.
I guess I am a bit idealistic in thinking that both parties should be equally looking to impress the other.
Is it a deal breaker? No. Or it might be for some, but it isn't for most women. Hence the word "neutral" I used. Sure, they *prefer* when it is paid, but it is not a deal breaker.
Thus it is still a nice and meaningful thing to do (you are not compelled to do this since this is not a deal breaker, it is YOUR choice to do it), as no women will hold a grudge against you for not doing it.
And if you're worried about women who are in it for free diner, the best strategy is not to pay her share on the first date. This way, if this isn't a deal breaker for her, and she comes back next time - for you NOT for the free food, you can treat her all you want in the subsequent dates. See how you can make tests for the women to pass yourself?
And yes, both parties should be equally looking to "impress" the other, if not the woman is just manipulating you.
You see though I am not talking about free food,that is just a realizing of an attitude that has surprised me with many ladies who have posted here over time.
That being a very decisive set of expectations that a guy must somehow meet to satisfy in their minds he is acceptable yet in contrast an abhorrence to a guy having any of her...the one way street thing.0 -
i pay for most of the dates. Definitely the first few dates. It doesn't bother me a bit. It also depends on my date's financial situation. I was seeing a lawyer recently, and she oftentimes asked to pick up a check. I usually politely refused, but she found ways to pay for things, too. And I liked that. My guess is that it was around 80-20, which was fine.
Even if I began to date a super wealthy woman, no matter what her age, I'd still pick up most of the checks. Firstly, a dinner/movie/theater/opera/whatever is not expensive. Secondly, it's just the way I was brought up. Don't take this the wrong way: I love independent, successful women. And I love when they push to pick up checks occasionally. I'm just not comfortable if the woman is often paying. Like I said, if she is doing well, 80-20 works for me. If she is not doing well, I have no issue paying for everything.
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i pay for most of the dates. Definitely the first few dates. It doesn't bother me a bit. It also depends on my date's financial situation. I was seeing a lawyer recently, and she oftentimes asked to pick up a check. I usually politely refused, but she found ways to pay for things, too. And I liked that. My guess is that it was around 80-20, which was fine.
Even if I began to date a super wealthy woman, no matter what her age, I'd still pick up most of the checks. Firstly, a dinner/movie/theater/opera/whatever is not expensive. Secondly, it's just the way I was brought up. Don't take this the wrong way: I love independent, successful women. And I love when they push to pick up checks occasionally. I'm just not comfortable if the woman is often paying. Like I said, if she is doing well, 80-20 works for me. If she is not doing well, I have no issue paying for everything.
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Spoken like a true Southern gentleman.
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I agree with that,what kind of got me was the number of ladies who did not respect or appreciate it as gentlmanly offer but regarded it as a you better damn well do this if you want me thing.i pay for most of the dates. Definitely the first few dates. It doesn't bother me a bit. It also depends on my date's financial situation. I was seeing a lawyer recently, and she oftentimes asked to pick up a check. I usually politely refused, but she found ways to pay for things, too. And I liked that. My guess is that it was around 80-20, which was fine.
Even if I began to date a super wealthy woman, no matter what her age, I'd still pick up most of the checks. Firstly, a dinner/movie/theater/opera/whatever is not expensive. Secondly, it's just the way I was brought up. Don't take this the wrong way: I love independent, successful women. And I love when they push to pick up checks occasionally. I'm just not comfortable if the woman is often paying. Like I said, if she is doing well, 80-20 works for me. If she is not doing well, I have no issue paying for everything.
--P
To that I was taken aback and see ya later princess,it likely goes downhill from here0 -
I agree with that,what kind of got me was the number of ladies who did not respect or appreciate it as gentlmanly offer but regarded it as a you better damn well do this if you want me thing.
To that I was taken aback and see ya later princess,it likely goes downhill from here
Of course. Even if I'm paying for everything, it's nice to see the lady asking to pick up checks now and then, even though she knows I'm going to refuse. And there are ways to compensate a bit. For example, she can cook a dinner at her house, pack a picnic lunch, whatever. I think I can tell quite quickly if she is taking advantage of the situation, or if she is sincere in wanting to pay a bit more, but just understands that I have no issue with it, etc., etc.
As to the OP's situation with his new woman: she sounds great. Hope it works out. But again, there is just no way I'm going to let her pay for our first couple of dates, no matter how old/successful she is.
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Dating has NEVER been easy for me.0
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This paying thing has been done a million times in here ladies.
Mike is stating his point, which honestly is pretty bloody valid. Everyone's experiences are different just because you are happy to pay for your meal doesn't mean mike's experience changes. I share the same view for sure, this is nearly always the case!0 -
#Reasons-I-don't-date. I'm not ever trying to buy a person, or to sell myself.
Sell yourself? For Spaghetti Napolitana and a glass of red wine?? It's a date people. A date. Dinner, a movie, whatever. We're not talking about a long weekend in Monte Carlo. At least not on the first date...
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This is actually a very interesting topic.That being a very decisive set of expectations that a guy must somehow meet to satisfy in their minds he is acceptable yet in contrast an abhorrence to a guy having any of her...the one way street thing.
I find that, as I'm getting more and more experienced with "chatting/dating" women and as I get more and more opportunities with them, I am increasingly the one testing them against my set of expectations and they are the ones trying to impress me (in a lot of cases now).
Your behaviour & confidence as a person as well as your projected "value" (how valuable you are perceived to be, which should, hopefully for you, be as close to reality as possible) have in my experience more influence on "who is testing who" than "society's order" as a whole (although by default, I agree that society favours women and says they are the one testing their suitors).
If a woman wants to impress you, she won't have any second thoughts about doing it though and she will be focused on trying to not screw up rather than thinking negatively about you having a set of expectations (I mean when the interaction is actually happening).
If you have demonstrated your "value" before, it is normal and acceptable (to every logical person) that you don't provide this value to someone else who didn't demonstrate they were worthy of your "value". Or in Layman terms, I'd rather be single than being with the wrong person (someone who would drag me down).
From your comments, I would say perhaps focus on your positives attributes and perhaps learn how to "demonstrate your value" to a woman so that she understands the fact that she can't have you without matching some of your standards.
As for what you will read on the forums here, about women not accepting/not wanting to have to meet a set of expectations from men, this is just a natural reaction... A reaction I have myself when I think I will be tested against the woman's set of expectations!
I don't like the idea of being tested as a man, women don't like the idea of it either, yet when you think about it logically it makes sense to be "tested" and have to match these expectations.
So I'd ignore the people (men/women) who abhor the idea: this is just normal. We all do. That doesn't make it less true and necessary.
In an ideal situation, with two people of equal confidence and thinking they can bring as much to the table as each other, both parties should be testing themselves equally (for compatibility).
However, as I got more exposed and experienced into dating, I realised that most women are actually not that skilled in dating and they lack a "framework", putting me generally at a slight advantage.0 -
#Reasons-I-don't-date. I'm not ever trying to buy a person, or to sell myself.
Sell yourself? For Spaghetti Napolitana and a glass of red wine?? It's a date people. A date. Dinner, a movie, whatever. We're not talking about a long weekend in Monte Carlo. At least not on the first date...
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I was going off the wording the OP used.
And it's just one of many reasons I don't date (I think it's a ridiculous practice).0 -
#Reasons-I-don't-date. I'm not ever trying to buy a person, or to sell myself.
Sell yourself? For Spaghetti Napolitana and a glass of red wine?? It's a date people. A date. Dinner, a movie, whatever. We're not talking about a long weekend in Monte Carlo. At least not on the first date...
--P
I was going off the wording the OP used.
And it's just one of many reasons I don't date (I think it's a ridiculous practice).
I am genuinely curious - are you going to remain single for the rest of your life, or do I not understand?0 -
#Reasons-I-don't-date. I'm not ever trying to buy a person, or to sell myself.
Sell yourself? For Spaghetti Napolitana and a glass of red wine?? It's a date people. A date. Dinner, a movie, whatever. We're not talking about a long weekend in Monte Carlo. At least not on the first date...
--P
I was going off the wording the OP used.
And it's just one of many reasons I don't date (I think it's a ridiculous practice).
I am genuinely curious - are you going to remain single for the rest of your life, or do I not understand?
Hahaha. Maybe I have relationships -- I just don't do the dating strangers thing and the standard 'dating' scene, as it were. I posted this earlier in response to something else:
I prefer to live my life and do things I love... like rock climbing, where I meet tons of people (potential friends). The more stuff I do that makes me happy, the more people I meet that share my interests hence why I don't date, I live! And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers. 0 -
And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers.
Ah okay that makes sense! So you don't go out looking for "dates" per se, just friends, and it can develop into more.0 -
And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers.
Ah okay that makes sense! So you don't go out looking for "dates" per se, just friends, and it can develop into more.
Yup. I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.0 -
Dating has NEVER been easy for me.
Care to tell us why?0 -
Wow. No. I'm lucky if a guy even buys me dinner...
They'll buy me drinks alright, but expect to get laid afterwards.
Trust me, It's a jungle out there for everyone.0 -
Brrr! A risk of getting laid? Scary indeed... For a friend of mine, please tell me more about this "jungle"! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:They'll buy me drinks alright, but expect to get laid afterwards.
Trust me, It's a jungle out there for everyone.0 -
And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers.
Ah okay that makes sense! So you don't go out looking for "dates" per se, just friends, and it can develop into more.
Yup. I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.
I love that philosophy.0 -
Brrr! A risk of getting laid? Scary indeed... For a friend of mine, please tell me more about this "jungle"! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:They'll buy me drinks alright, but expect to get laid afterwards.
Trust me, It's a jungle out there for everyone.
Guys will tell you whatever you want to hear, until they finally get into your pants. Then when you fall for them, they go ahead and kiss your friend in front of you. And then emotionally manipulate you into being with them again. Yeah, sometimes it's easy as for women...0 -
And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers.
Ah okay that makes sense! So you don't go out looking for "dates" per se, just friends, and it can develop into more.
Yup. I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.
I love that philosophy.
Me too..but it still doesn't seem to be developing for me lol all the people I spend time with are couples or not looking or just not seemingly interested in friendship even. I think it would have worked much better when I was your age 0 -
And then if we become friends and our personalities match up as more and mutual attraction develops... wellll... OK then. No one ever worries about who pays when two friends go out to shoot pool or play air hockey or rock climb then eat cheeseburgers.
Ah okay that makes sense! So you don't go out looking for "dates" per se, just friends, and it can develop into more.
Yup. I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.
I love that philosophy.
Me too..but it still doesn't seem to be developing for me lol all the people I spend time with are couples or not looking or just not seemingly interested in friendship even. I think it would have worked much better when I was your age
I admit that it probably does work better because I am in my 20s, but I am also not afraid of ending up single forever. I want to get a Corgi puppy. I'd rather be happy alone than miserable with the wrong person.0 -
Brrr! A risk of getting laid? Scary indeed... For a friend of mine, please tell me more about this "jungle"! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:They'll buy me drinks alright, but expect to get laid afterwards.
Trust me, It's a jungle out there for everyone.
Guys will tell you whatever you want to hear, until they finally get into your pants. Then when you fall for them, they go ahead and kiss your friend in front of you. And then emotionally manipulate you into being with them again. Yeah, sometimes it's easy as for women...
Bullcrap and if that is the crowd you are hanging with then get away.
Neither men or women are inherently evil,just learn to sort them out by their actions.
You are responsible for your choices,if you know the signs but ignore them then you have only yourself to blame.
If one honestly fools you and you don`t withdraw from the relationship then the same thing.0 -
Last week, I went to a movie and then dinner with a guy. When the check came at dinner, I got out my wallet and he picked the check up. I said, "I can get dinner, since you got the tickets." He said, "No, I'll pay." I was like, "Are you sure? It's not a problem." And he insisted and ended up paying.
I fully intended on paying for dinner, since he paid for the movie. I never expect a guy to pay for me, I always offer to pay. If I guy wants to pay for me, then I thank him. He is obviously a nice guy. But honestly, I did feel a little guilty afterwards that he paid for me...0 -
my thing with the money is that i don't want things uneven. i'm like that with a lot of stuff though. 50/50 is my preferred mode. so, if he wants to give first, i will let him give first. but after we have established mutual interest and want to see more of each other i make sure to pull my own weight.
maybe it's the wrong way to do it, but i just don't like things uneven.........0 -
ALL i ask is be employed doing something for the love of god and be able to drive yaself to the ****ing place we're going if need be....meet me halfway and we'll go all the way....that is all:laugh:0
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hell no! i hate feeling powerless and i hate when the guy wants to pay and do everything. it makes me angry lol also youre aways wondering if the guy is only into you for your body.
Not trying to be snarky... just trying to understand... how does a man paying for your meal make you wonder if he's only into your body? I've always heard it is the opposite- it's the men who always wanna do free/hidden stuff (like watch a movie at his place) and won't take you out to dinner that just want your body.0 -
FWIW, I rarely pay for my meal when I go out, unless I know right away I don't like the guy. Then I *might* offer. Even my guy *friends* often won't let me pay for my meal when we go out platonically. And guys don't generally expect that now I owe them any sexual favors. I did have one guy get upset I didn't "invite him in," claiming that he didn't buy me dinner "for nothin" but that's just one guy out of many.
For me, it's been the opposite. Guys seem to get offended when I offer to pay my half,. Maybe it's a southern thing?0 -
I guess I am a bit idealistic in thinking that both parties should be equally looking to impress the other.
Well of course we should... and many of us do! The guy tries to impress us with his bravado and financial security, and we ladies try to impress him with our beauty and charm. Hence the new outfits and the hour spent getting ready. lol.0 -
Yup. I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.
So you do date. Just with people you've already met. But eventually, the two of you are enjoying a nice dinner together somewhere, I assume? And that dinner is not free, and hence someone must pay? Or are you just climbing rocks together, killing wild game with bows and arrows, then cooking it over an open fire?
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