What it feels like for a girl.
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Umm yeah women get wined and dined but i don't agree that its EASY by any means!
women get more emotionally attached way faster than men so the heart break and all is way harder for us to deal with and it takes way longer for us to get over relationships.
so it depends what u mean by "easy"0 -
Well, I don't remember what my exact words were, but what I meant was the women that message me are usually not ones I would have messaged, meaning I'm just not into them for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that they approached me first. The girl I'm seeing right now actually asked me out first and it's been about 50/50 since then, seems to be working out well enough.
Yeah sure the better looking people will usually have it easier, but I still think on average the guy ends up doing more work.
I wasn't meaning to imply that since they messaged you, you weren't interested. My point was that they were not women you found attractive / interesting enough or you would have messaged them yourself. So there are plenty of women not having any different of a dating experience than I hear men complaining about on here as if only men have that issue.
Hot people, men or women, will always have it easier. To me the difference is that women (non-hot ones) are generally open to someone lower on the scale so therefore men have a better shot, and women end up working harder to find someone open to dating them.
I'd call myself a 5.5-6 on a good day now.... I can't even get guys 5 and above to pay me attention generally. Yet if a 5 guy messaged me, I'd definitely talk with him though he's lower on the scale than me, so to speak. Hell, I've spoken to a few 3s and 4s, haha...
Ever see "She's Out of My League"... the 2 point rule? You can date up or down 2 points of your value. I think it's true for women especially, but don't know many guys willing to drop 2 points... just sayin'!0 -
I'd be glad to have a woman who was involved in the planning of a first, second or third date. Women who rank above a 6.5 or higher are rarely ever involved in planning or initiating in my experience.
So then the opinion should be changed to "Hot girls have it easier." Just like hot guys have it easier.
Maybe. I think most guys want to play in the hot girl sandbox. But even slightly above average girls aren't often initiators or planners.
I don't know where I am on your little scale, but I do get hit on often and am one of those girls who in online dating get flooded with messages- however for the right guy that is able to peak my interest or seem more interested in me other then- "how was your day/week/weekend/life?" and actually ask questions about my job, family, interests more then what they could have read from my crappy short online profile(from online dating) or actually listen to my responses (in person)- then I have no problem planning the dates. If I am interested, I want to take an active role in our dating life and I will go out of my way to impress you then just sit there waiting to be impressed.
But I do think it is quite frustrating when guys ask you out and then go- so what do you want to do?0 -
Umm yeah women get wined and dined but i don't agree that its EASY by any means!
women get more emotionally attached way faster than men so the heart break and all is way harder for us to deal with and it takes way longer for us to get over relationships.
so it depends what u mean by "easy"
Totally agree with getting emotionally attached quicker and it not being that easy.0 -
This is true, actually.Finding a date is easier for a woman but finding a relationship once you've got that date is easier for a man. I often read about women who date men who "won't commit to a relationship".
I think the supply of "sex" is run by women (i.e. women have got the edge and are the ones to hold off with sex, men are more needy in this area), however the "relationship/emotional" supply is run by men, which mechanically makes that men have got the edge for LTR, whereas women will have the edge for one night stands.
^^ this. dating may be easy but actual relationships are harder to find. I hate that men are the ones who pretty much control this because they are the ones who have issues with committment, monogamy, etc.0 -
Not to sound rude, but am I the only one who's sick of hearing about the "hot scale"? There are pros and cons in dating for both genders but there are lots of added pros and cons for each of us as individuals in the dating world too. Clearly we've all agreed that there needs to be some attraction to the other person, but this sounds sooooo superficial that I'm a little tired of it.All of you = (coefficient1 x mental) + (coefficient2 x physical)
Remember FFF's model from another post? Seems to me he has it right and we should all be focusing more on BOTH aspects instead of trying to land someone hot who may or may not have a personality. Perhaps that's why many of us (myself included) have ended up on awful dates or in bad past relationships, because we forgot to look for the whole package? Ok, sorry, rant over.0 -
True, I see myself as a solid 2, 2.5 tops but I'll only go for a 9 or 10. I guess that explains a lot. :happy:Well, I don't remember what my exact words were, but what I meant was the women that message me are usually not ones I would have messaged, meaning I'm just not into them for whatever reason. It has nothing to do with the fact that they approached me first. The girl I'm seeing right now actually asked me out first and it's been about 50/50 since then, seems to be working out well enough.
Yeah sure the better looking people will usually have it easier, but I still think on average the guy ends up doing more work.
I wasn't meaning to imply that since they messaged you, you weren't interested. My point was that they were not women you found attractive / interesting enough or you would have messaged them yourself. So there are plenty of women not having any different of a dating experience than I hear men complaining about on here as if only men have that issue.
Hot people, men or women, will always have it easier. To me the difference is that women (non-hot ones) are generally open to someone lower on the scale so therefore men have a better shot, and women end up working harder to find someone open to dating them.
I'd call myself a 5.5-6 on a good day now.... I can't even get guys 5 and above to pay me attention generally. Yet if a 5 guy messaged me, I'd definitely talk with him though he's lower on the scale than me, so to speak. Hell, I've spoken to a few 3s and 4s, haha...
Ever see "She's Out of My League"... the 2 point rule? You can date up or down 2 points of your value. I think it's true for women especially, but don't know many guys willing to drop 2 points... just sayin'!0 -
Not to sound rude, but am I the only one who's sick of hearing about the "hot scale"? There are pros and cons in dating for both genders but there are lots of added pros and cons for each of us as individuals in the dating world too. Clearly we've all agreed that there needs to be some attraction to the other person, but this sounds sooooo superficial that I'm a little tired of it.All of you = (coefficient1 x mental) + (coefficient2 x physical)
Remember FFF's model from another post? Seems to me he has it right and we should all be focusing more on BOTH aspects instead of trying to land someone hot who may or may not have a personality. Perhaps that's why many of us (myself included) have ended up on awful dates or in bad past relationships, because we forgot to look for the whole package? Ok, sorry, rant over.
I don't think anyone could disagree that it should be that way, but it's not reality. I enjoy the honest discussions on here because I'd rather know truthfully what to expect than expecting the ideal and always being disappointed. Especially online, where 400K people are online at POF, the pics are an easy way to start narrowing down, which says NOTHING about their character or whole package. Who wouldn't love a world where men followed women like ME around for a change because I'm smart, fun, fairly low maintenance,active, and up for a good time?! OK, dream over and back to reality....0 -
Not to sound rude, but am I the only one who's sick of hearing about the "hot scale"? There are pros and cons in dating for both genders but there are lots of added pros and cons for each of us as individuals in the dating world too. Clearly we've all agreed that there needs to be some attraction to the other person, but this sounds sooooo superficial that I'm a little tired of it.All of you = (coefficient1 x mental) + (coefficient2 x physical)
Remember FFF's model from another post? Seems to me he has it right and we should all be focusing more on BOTH aspects instead of trying to land someone hot who may or may not have a personality. Perhaps that's why many of us (myself included) have ended up on awful dates or in bad past relationships, because we forgot to look for the whole package? Ok, sorry, rant over.
I don't think anyone could disagree that it should be that way, but it's not reality. I enjoy the honest discussions on here because I'd rather know truthfully what to expect than expecting the ideal and always being disappointed. Especially online, where 400K people are online at POF, the pics are an easy way to start narrowing down, which says NOTHING about their character or whole package. Who wouldn't love a world where men followed women like ME around for a change because I'm smart, fun, fairly low maintenance,active, and up for a good time?! OK, dream over and back to reality....
Yes, I understand what you mean by the reality of the situation and personally I think I live that way too. However, have you ever heard the saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"? I've noticed there are an awful lot of people on the board (this is NOT directed at any one person) who go for looks, looks, looks and then wonder why they're still single. Boggles my mind after a while...0 -
Of course! I completely agree with you, PJ. Everyone is so obsessed with hotness that they ignore every other factor that actually makes sense when looking for a partner. Obviously I think physical attraction is important, but at the same time, I don't give a rat's *kitten* if anyone else thinks he's hot :laugh: People are far too concerned with their own "image", which really boils down to insecurity, which is why they are so damn worried about finding a partner to "show off" with as opposed to someone who might actually be good for them.
Is that a rant? Hahaha0 -
I've always found the concept of trying to create a romantic and/or sexual connection with a complete stranger with no basis of friendship first rather awkward. If I don't like someone as a friend, I certainly won't like them as more than a friend.
I love the idea of being friends first, like say through a mutual hobby, singles group at church, or meetup kind of thing. But seems to me that once a guy establishes you as "a friend" you've been friendzoned for life!! So I'm not sure this theory works very well in practical real life.0 -
I love the idea of being friends first, like say through a mutual hobby, singles group at church, or meetup kind of thing. But seems to me that once a guy establishes you as "a friend" you've been friendzoned for life!! So I'm not sure this theory works very well in practical real life.
agreed. apart from the friend zone thing what happens if u dont work out? it will be awkward seeing him at your mutual events with your mutual friends - then what? u have to change your friends or your schedule to avoid each other? that sounds pretty complicated.
but i can see both sides.0 -
I'd be glad to have a woman who was involved in the planning of a first, second or third date. Women who rank above a 6.5 or higher are rarely ever involved in planning or initiating in my experience.
And why should they, honestly?
You're taking them out... there are 2 or 3 other guys who could have been taking them out and would have been happy to get to know her if the first guy balks because she'd rather primp than plan. Planning and making sure all the details for the date are perfect can get stressful. Why would a woman to take on unnecessary stress of planning the date when she knows the guys will do it? Instead, she could be relaxing, making herself feel desirable, pretty, etc all of which translates into a better night out for both of them because she's not stressed out.
I could see if you were in a long term relationship... but honestly, if a guy is trying to get a desirable woman to notice him, he should be willing to step it up. And I'm not judging the guys here who like women paying, and certainly not judging the women who don't want the man to pay b/c they don't want to feel obligated- those are both valid points- but I've noticed in my on small population that the women who pursue and/or pay a lot are more often with guys who are just "putting up with them" not guys who feel like they're "the one."
Qualifier: That may be b/c I'm in the south, and the culture is a bit different here. My date the other night even pumped my gas for me when we decided to go to another location and I was on E. When I went to high school up north, we were all such femi-nazis that I would NEVER have let a guy open my door let alone pump my gas.0 -
Ok then men shoud love me lol.... My ex-husband and ex-BF both never worked while we were together. I was always the bread winner and never minded paying for things.
Now I havent been on many dates but going out with Mr Nice Guy or FWB we usually see who has money that night and thats how we figure out whose gonna pay. I dont care about a guy paying my way unless they want to go out and I'm broke.. I have told a man well I cant go out cause its rent check and that means Im to tight to go . Most of the time they offer to pay but thats cause they want me to come out......
Honestly if a man wanted to pay for everything all the time I would feel weird lol0 -
I'd be glad to have a woman who was involved in the planning of a first, second or third date. Women who rank above a 6.5 or higher are rarely ever involved in planning or initiating in my experience.
And why should they, honestly?
You're taking them out... there are 2 or 3 other guys who could have been taking them out and would have been happy to get to know her if the first guy balks because she'd rather primp than plan. Planning and making sure all the details for the date are perfect can get stressful. Why would a woman to take on unnecessary stress of planning the date when she knows the guys will do it? Instead, she could be relaxing, making herself feel desirable, pretty, etc all of which translates into a better night out for both of them because she's not stressed out.
I could see if you were in a long term relationship... but honestly, if a guy is trying to get a desirable woman to notice him, he should be willing to step it up. And I'm not judging the guys here who like women paying, and certainly not judging the women who don't want the man to pay b/c they don't want to feel obligated- those are both valid points- but I've noticed in my on small population that the women who pursue and/or pay a lot are more often with guys who are just "putting up with them" not guys who feel like they're "the one."
Qualifier: That may be b/c I'm in the south, and the culture is a bit different here. My date the other night even pumped my gas for me when we decided to go to another location and I was on E. When I went to high school up north, we were all such femi-nazis that I would NEVER have let a guy open my door let alone pump my gas.
i'm latina and have lived in the south for a while now...sorry but a guy who pumps my gas is a keeper in my eyes
its not about just money but a guy who opens doors, carries your groceries, pumps your gas, etc. i love that stuff!!!0 -
Roadie, you said it yourself in an old posting.... You're never interested in the women that reach out to you online! If you were, you would have already messaged them yourself. So accurately, as toots said, hot women have it easy...the rest of us, not so much!
So then... for anyone who feels like they aren't "hot" enough to have an easy time of dating, what can be done to make ourselves "hotter?" Earlier threads said it's not just size, but more about confidence. How does one let their confidence shine through their profile?0 -
True, I see myself as a solid 2, 2.5 tops but I'll only go for a 9 or 10. I guess that explains a lot. :happy:
Ahhh, whatever... maybe you're a 7-8 stretching for a 9 or 10! Still a stretch but every once in a while you get lucky or they are drunk
! Either way, you're out of my league 
Yes, I understand what you mean by the reality of the situation and personally I think I live that way too. However, have you ever heard the saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"? I've noticed there are an awful lot of people on the board (this is NOT directed at any one person) who go for looks, looks, looks and then wonder why they're still single. Boggles my mind after a while...
I agree with you. It is insanity. I've actually said to a few guys I know that they're single because they're TOO picky, not because they haven't met women that could have been a great match. Women do it too... so I'm not saying it's about men. As someone who isn't in that 6.5+ scale, it is frustrating trying to figure out which men have their heads on straight enough to be open to a good woman and which ones are trying to date up. But, it is reality...dating is hard no matter who you are, except the hot girls, haha...0 -
I'm latina and have lived in the south for a while now...sorry but a guy who pumps my gas is a keeper in my eyes
its not about just money but a guy who opens doors, carries your groceries, pumps your gas, etc. i love that stuff!!!
This was that thin guy, the one I was surprised to feel "feminine" around... looking back on it, it's no wonder I felt feminine. He was a total gentleman- opened my doors, carried my boxes, complimented me on real stuff, tried to see discussions from my POV but wasn't afraid to render his opinion if we differed. Of course, there would be many more dates required to find out if he's a "good guy" but at least he knows how to get a woman's fires burning.0 -
And why should they, honestly?
Maybe if they had more input on this, they'd feel more invested in the outing and feel more at ease with the course of the date.
It is a nice change of pace when there's some initiative taken from a female in the early stages.0 -
And why should they, honestly?
Maybe if they had more input on this, they'd feel more invested in the outing and feel more at ease with the course of the date.
It is a nice change of pace when there's some initiative taken from a female in the early stages.
I get that you, as a guy, would like the woman to take more initiative (though myexperience has been that me taking the initiative in most relationshps has been the kiss of death, to each his own).
What I'm saying is, for every guy whining about how the hot girls expect them to do everything there are 2 other guys happy to do it. If you look at it from the girl's perspective, why would she think she should have to change that up? If it aint broke, don't fix it.0 -
I don't feel like it is a whole lot of fun from this girl's end. I went out with a guy Friday and we split an appetizer and I drank water. We had amazing conversation, I really enjoyed myself, thought he did too. Offered when the check came, he paid it. We went outside talked for a while....when he asked to go back to my place I explained that we just met....(2nd meeting, 1st date) he said "But I drove all of the way out here..." He lives 45 minutes from me.
Haven't heard from him.
Did I enjoy a couple of bites of food w/o spending any money? Yes. But I would have rather paid for my food and not been dismissed by what now appears to be a *kitten*.
Dating is not fun. For either sex, I guess. Sigh.0 -
I know the implication that a guy ( or I ) am cheap but that is not the thing.
My unease is when anyone insists or EXPECTS a certain thing or they are done I don't see them as wanting to be an equal participant in the situation.
It becomes a test to pass rather then an appreciated gesture.0 -
What I'm saying is, for every guy whining about how the hot girls expect them to do everything there are 2 other guys happy to do it. If you look at it from the girl's perspective, why would she think she should have to change that up? If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Very true. Going off that, there are plenty of guys who have no problem paying for their dates' meals or movie tickets or whatever.And why should they, honestly?
Maybe if they had more input on this, they'd feel more invested in the outing and feel more at ease with the course of the date.
It is a nice change of pace when there's some initiative taken from a female in the early stages.
This is me being genuinely curious - doesn't a man want to feel like a man and take the lead? Not saying the female should be passive, and she should put her input in, but doesn't a man want to plan dates and take the woman out?0 -
Two questions...
If paying is the deal breaker to a lady why should or would a guy not be suspicious that her main intent is to find someone that is willing to be a sugar daddy rather then find a life partner?
How is making this a must any different in any way then a guy saying if a lady doesn`t sexually put out by the third date they are moving on?0 -
Two questions...
If paying is the deal breaker to a lady why should or would a guy not be suspicious that her main intent is to find someone that is willing to be a sugar daddy rather then find a life partner?
How is making this a must any different in any way then a guy saying if a lady doesn`t sexually put out by the third date they are moving on?
Trust me, unless you're very wealthy, no woman is going to spend her life with you if she doesn't like you. The other women reading this will most likely attest to this. I wouldn't - I went out with a guy who was well off, but it didn't make me stick around after I realized I didn't like him like that. If you're with a girl, she most likely likes you and isn't using you for money.
However, a man will have sex with a girl he doesn't like (see the other thread posted about this today). So just because you have sex with a guy doesn't mean that he'll want you or stick around.0 -
I'm sorry, but whenever I see the title of this thread I just think of that Madonna song...0
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Two questions...
If paying is the deal breaker to a lady why should or would a guy not be suspicious that her main intent is to find someone that is willing to be a sugar daddy rather then find a life partner?
How is making this a must any different in any way then a guy saying if a lady doesn`t sexually put out by the third date they are moving on?
But if you demand he spends money on her and also in the right (read fancy,not a fast food place) it does not indicate that is a measure of how well he stacks up?Trust me, unless you're very wealthy, no woman is going to spend her life with you if she doesn't like you. The other women reading this will most likely attest to this. I wouldn't - I went out with a guy who was well off, but it didn't make me stick around after I realized I didn't like him like that. If you're with a girl, she most likely likes you and isn't using you for money.
[/quote]However, a man will have sex with a girl he doesn't like (see the other thread posted about this today). So just because you have sex with a guy doesn't mean that he'll want you or stick around.
Confused by this...asked why anyone should consider it any different then a guy demanding sex or get lost by a certain timeframe.0 -
Two questions...
If paying is the deal breaker to a lady why should or would a guy not be suspicious that her main intent is to find someone that is willing to be a sugar daddy rather then find a life partner?
How is making this a must any different in any way then a guy saying if a lady doesn`t sexually put out by the third date they are moving on?
Trust me, unless you're very wealthy, no woman is going to spend her life with you if she doesn't like you. The other women reading this will most likely attest to this. I wouldn't - I went out with a guy who was well off, but it didn't make me stick around after I realized I didn't like him like that. If you're with a girl, she most likely likes you and isn't using you for money.
This is absolutely not true. I can think of one couple (a friend's relatives) specifically where the woman married the guy so she wouldn't have to work and they are not wealthy at all. Now this is not my style and I could never, ever be with someone for any other reason than love, but it does happen, so I understand what Carl is asking.0 -
Confused by this...asked why anyone should consider it any different then a guy demanding sex or get lost by a certain timeframe.
Because sex is a huge thing for a woman and it should be for a man. It's different because sex involves tons of emotions, whereas paying for a dinner does not.Two questions...
If paying is the deal breaker to a lady why should or would a guy not be suspicious that her main intent is to find someone that is willing to be a sugar daddy rather then find a life partner?
How is making this a must any different in any way then a guy saying if a lady doesn`t sexually put out by the third date they are moving on?
Trust me, unless you're very wealthy, no woman is going to spend her life with you if she doesn't like you. The other women reading this will most likely attest to this. I wouldn't - I went out with a guy who was well off, but it didn't make me stick around after I realized I didn't like him like that. If you're with a girl, she most likely likes you and isn't using you for money.
This is absolutely not true. I can think of one couple (a friend's relatives) specifically where the woman married the guy so she wouldn't have to work and they are not wealthy at all. Now this is not my style and I could never, ever be with someone for any other reason than love, but it does happen, so I understand what Carl is asking.
For every one of these cases, there are ten others that are true, genuine love.
Look, you can go with the flow in relationships and trust people have good intentions, or you can go into relationships with a cautious eye and look for bad signs everywhere, and assume that a woman you're taking out and paying for is using you. It just doesn't make sense to me. In this instance, if you're short on cash, do cheap/free things. Don't overanalyze everyone's intentions.0 -
I'm sorry, but whenever I see the title of this thread I just think of that Madonna song...
ding! ding! exactly.
For me, it's not so much a money thing as it is overall effort. Younger girls seem to take guys asking them out on dates for granted. Everytime I dated younger, I never got the feeling that the girl really was giving it her 100% to keep a conversation going, being interesting, or even looking all done up for our date. Whenever I date older, I find the women to be more engaging, they dress MUCH nicer, and actually seem into the date. Just my $0.02.0
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