Wow, I haven't been able to get in this thread too often, but the one thing I have noticed is everyone is talking about the scale...let me tell you, if I didn't take pics I might have thrown in the towel a few times...lol. Are you all taking pictures and comparing, your start, then tdee, end of tdee, start of cut, four weeks into cut. Here is why I am asking? When I started tdee i was 154lbs, I then did 9wks tdee and leveled off at 158lbs. I then started 10% cut and changed my routine a bit to slightly lower weights (still lifting heavy, just not doing 6 reps, more like 10-15 so I have to lessen the weights just a bit) and added in a little more cardio. the first week I SHOT TO 162ish pounds...stayed there for the next few weeks, dropped a wee bit, then back to it and then I did TDEE week of my bday, then cut again...blah blah blah...this morning I weighed at home at 166.8...NOW, to some that would be horrifying...to me it is not. Why? I am no longer looking to the scale to tell me how I am doing. My pictures, my clothes, the definition when I flex or lift, the fat pockets that are shrinking, the ones that have disappeared...those are my indicators. Now I know some is water because I had Japanese last night, I know TOM water is about to get rolling, but this morning when I woke up...I looked tighter especially in my core...so I am NOT going to ever again let the scale dictate my mood and I won't let it trick me into slashing cals. I plateaued doing that, I couldn't lift like I do now, my body sure didn't look how it looks now.

So, ladies please stay focused...do we want to hit a certain weight or fit a certain size. If you say size, then you lift heavy, eat right and the rest will fall into place. It will.

Lucia~

I know the scale is mentioned a lot in recent posts but when some of us are gaining 20-30 pounds or more and seeing NO change in our appearance (for the better), it does become somewhat significant.

You mention using pictures and your clothes as a measure of your success, which I agree with BTW, but if our clothing size is going UP~like at least 2 sizes up~ I, for one, am not taking any pictures of that.

What we're talking about is layers of FAT being added to our bodies. This fat is covering up any new muscle definition we may have gained with our lifting programs so we're not getting that positive feedback.

So, yes, it's upsetting. There are thousands of members doing EM2WL now.
We are all inspired by you, KiKi, HarlanJen, Mike, and Brad to name a few and the science behind it makes so much sense.

But "science" always looks good on paper~ when it comes to applying it to the human body, it's a whole other story.

NONE of us want to go back to VLCD, but something's gotta give......

exactly THIS!!! I totally get it that the "scale lies" etc. etc. etc. but come on.....if our clothes fit the same and the measuring tape lies and the mirror sucks then really....somethin's gotta give! I've been there...totally. Right now I'm doing okay mentally because I think I'm in a downward trend (finally....in week 6 of my cut after 8wks of reset) but who knows where I'll be tomorrow....this is seeeeeeriously hard stuff! hang in there and have a good week!

I'm curious...how many here who are having trouble seeing results in the first 2 months after going to cut are coming from a VLCD? I'm thinking almost all?

I can't vouch for anything...I'm in this with you. But I do want to add something to the concerns happening here that I think need to be factored in to the way we think. These certainly stick in my mind when I feel discouraged.

We are all here for a reason. One of those main reasons is because we stopped seeing results at a VLCD. By that point our bodies had already reached a point of mutiny against our weight-loss plans. Many of us had already done some SERIOUS damage to our metabolisms.

I am definitely in that group. I had hoped that after a metabolism reset that my weight would just start magically dropping steadily or that my inches would just start flying off. However, realistically, I have ONLY GIVEN MY BODY 8 WEEKS to get with MY new program after teaching it for 20 years that I was an unreliable ally. I want it to trust me..but does it? probably not yet. I expect that I am going to have to baby my body for many months yet before I begin to see a beautiful steady downwards pattern of weight or inches (or both) because for the first little while, I'm still teaching my body that the food is plentiful while at the same time denying it maintenance cals. That's quite a fine line to balance on.

In regards to weight and inches, those don't always show anything. My pants feel snugger since going to cut and changing up my exercise, and my inches are up/down and all over changing, (The total results of my measurements was a 1/2 inch gain).

BUT - my husband told me just the other day that he could see my body changing in a good way! I can't see it, my measurements don't seem to reflect it, but he can see it. He also made a comment that it's too bad you can't measure your face because so much of the change shows there first on me. And in my hands. (my rings fit differently). He also said my shoulders are smaller...how many of you measure your shoulders? I sure don't!!! So he sees changes in places I can't even measure. My clothes don't reflect it. My measurements don't reflect it. My scale sure doesn't either. But something is happening. I'm about 6 weeks into cut...so as you can see, these changes are SLOW.

Some things to consider: If you rushed your metabolism reset, you may need to do it again. If you have your numbers wrong because you are kidding yourself, then fix them (I did this as soon as I dropped to cut...and have since corrected that). (dropping them too low at first can backfire for us VLCD'ers I think because it's like teasing your body with a lovely surplus for a bit where it held on to things in case of drought again and then you just put it back into a drought confirming it's fears so it'll just keep holding on to that extra food!) retraining your body, fixing your metabolism, is not a quick repair. Remember Kiki did a metabolism reset for MONTHS...I don't think any of us allowed our bodies that kind of time.

Be prepared to take things slow with your body. Remember we are still in retraining mode. We aren't all magically FIXED just because we fed our bodies for 8 weeks. Some of us are going to suffer the consequences of our earlier VLCD days a little longer.

Of course, there are going to be some of you that say you don't fit into anything I just said. And to you, I have no answer. I can only leave that up to the experts such as Lucia and Kiki who have actual training and can help you tweak the finer points.

I don't share these things to start debate, only to give encouragement to those that feel perhaps they fit into that mold. I am no expert...I only share what I experience and what I have learned and am learning in this process.

I'm curious...how many here who are having trouble seeing results in the first 2 months after going to cut are coming from a VLCD? I'm thinking almost all?

I can't vouch for anything...I'm in this with you. But I do want to add something to the concerns happening here that I think need to be factored in to the way we think. These certainly stick in my mind when I feel discouraged.

We are all here for a reason. One of those main reasons is because we stopped seeing results at a VLCD. By that point our bodies had already reached a point of mutiny against our weight-loss plans. Many of us had already done some SERIOUS damage to our metabolisms.

I am definitely in that group. I had hoped that after a metabolism reset that my weight would just start magically dropping steadily or that my inches would just start flying off. However, realistically, I have ONLY GIVEN MY BODY 8 WEEKS to get with MY new program after teaching it for 20 years that I was an unreliable ally. I want it to trust me..but does it? probably not yet. I expect that I am going to have to baby my body for many months yet before I begin to see a beautiful steady downwards pattern of weight or inches (or both) because for the first little while, I'm still teaching my body that the food is plentiful while at the same time denying it maintenance cals. That's quite a fine line to balance on.

In regards to weight and inches, those don't always show anything. My pants feel snugger since going to cut and changing up my exercise, and my inches are up/down and all over changing, (The total results of my measurements was a 1/2 inch gain).

BUT - my husband told me just the other day that he could see my body changing in a good way! I can't see it, my measurements don't seem to reflect it, but he can see it. He also made a comment that it's too bad you can't measure your face because so much of the change shows there first on me. And in my hands. (my rings fit differently). He also said my shoulders are smaller...how many of you measure your shoulders? I sure don't!!! So he sees changes in places I can't even measure. My clothes don't reflect it. My measurements don't reflect it. My scale sure doesn't either. But something is happening. I'm about 6 weeks into cut...so as you can see, these changes are SLOW.

Some things to consider: If you rushed your metabolism reset, you may need to do it again. If you have your numbers wrong because you are kidding yourself, then fix them (I did this as soon as I dropped to cut...and have since corrected that). (dropping them too low at first can backfire for us VLCD'ers I think because it's like teasing your body with a lovely surplus for a bit where it held on to things in case of drought again and then you just put it back into a drought confirming it's fears so it'll just keep holding on to that extra food!) retraining your body, fixing your metabolism, is not a quick repair. Remember Kiki did a metabolism reset for MONTHS...I don't think any of us allowed our bodies that kind of time.

Be prepared to take things slow with your body. Remember we are still in retraining mode. We aren't all magically FIXED just because we fed our bodies for 8 weeks. Some of us are going to suffer the consequences of our earlier VLCD days a little longer.

Of course, there are going to be some of you that say you don't fit into anything I just said. And to you, I have no answer. I can only leave that up to the experts such as Lucia and Kiki who have actual training and can help you tweak the finer points.

I don't share these things to start debate, only to give encouragement to those that feel perhaps they fit into that mold. I am no expert...I only share what I experience and what I have learned and am learning in this process.

Excellent post Jyska!

Just an update from yesterday:

Lucia took some time with me and asked for "the story of my journey thusfar". After reviewing it she came up with a number of ideas and I want to share what I think is the MOST significant with you~

I started my Reset AND NROL4W at the same time. So eating at TDEE and lifting heavy.

Because I have MS and fatigue is a big component of it, I discovered that my new lifting routine was very draining on me and I had to choose either NROL or my cardio classes~ I chose NROL4W.

I completely STOPPED ALL cardio.

What do we know about cardio? A REASONABLE amount is very good for burning fat. And I was doing NONE!!

I added all that food for Reset, started a lifting routine, but did NOTHING to help with fat burning.

I am adjusting my workouts according to Lucia's suggestion and I am really, really, REALLY hoping that it makes a difference!

Just wanted you all to know this.

Another helpful thing that Lucia mentioned was that EM2WL was a GUIDELINE and that it really has to be tweaked to the individual. I, for one, appreciated hearing this and feel MUCH better about things.

I am once again hopeful.:flowerforyou:

Just an update from yesterday:

Lucia took some time with me and asked for "the story of my journey thusfar". After reviewing it she came up with a number of ideas and I want to share what I think is the MOST significant with you~

I started my Reset AND NROL4W at the same time. So eating at TDEE and lifting heavy.

Because I have MS and fatigue is a big component of it, I discovered that my new lifting routine was very draining on me and I had to choose either NROL or my cardio classes~ I chose NROL4W.

I completely STOPPED ALL cardio.

What do we know about cardio? A REASONABLE amount is very good for burning fat. And I was doing NONE!!

I added all that food for Reset, started a lifting routine, but did NOTHING to help with fat burning.

I am adjusting my workouts according to Lucia's suggestion and I am really, really, REALLY hoping that it makes a difference!

Just wanted you all to know this.

Another helpful thing that Lucia mentioned was that EM2WL was a GUIDELINE and that it really has to be tweaked to the individual. I, for one, appreciated hearing this and feel MUCH better about things.

I am once again hopeful.:flowerforyou:

SO glad your feeling better today Rosie!! Go get 'em!!

Gray

@Rosie - that makes a lot of sense. I know that when I went to cut, I increased my cardio a little (I lifted and walked during reset, then created a mix of CLX and TF when I went to cut)

Enjoy your new routine! Hope to see you shouting some success in the near future!

Leigh

I hope we've hit rock bottom and are on our way up now!!:drinker:

Thanks to everyone for all the positive feedback and well wishes~ it means a LOT and I DO feel so much better.

Hi again everyone! Back with some more AWESOME results!

I'm going away tomorrow for the weekend so I decided to take my measurements this morning instead of waiting till Sunday, which would be the end of week 3 of cut. I measured at the end of week one, and saw no changes, (it was a terrible week of eating badly and hardly any exercise) but now, after just two weeks I have lost inches ALL OVER!!!

I've lost half an inch from my thighs, upper arms, bust, upper waist and hips, and an inch from my ribs/underbust.
But the best part is... I've lost TWO AND A HALF inches off my lower waist/tommy!!!! Just goes to show how bloated I must have been on reset. It's great, I can wear tight tops from when I was at my skinniest and not feel like I have all this fat on my tommy anymore.

I can't believe I lost all that in just two weeks... my bust, hips and upper waist are now only about half an inch away from their pre-reset measurements... fingers crossed I can lose that half inch in the next 2-3 weeks

I'm not weighing myself till next weekend though, because this week TOM hit, and the scale goes wacky on TOM. I don't care though, because it always drops right down the day after TOM is gone.

I'm sooo happy! This is going really well for me. I was scared I'd start cut and just not see a difference like some people have on here... but obviously not! Keep going everyone, you'll all get there eventually!