TDEE & BMR: What they are and what to do with them
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Sadly, no measurements. I'm still learning what the "good habits" are (measuring, determining BF%, etc.) I wish I had known about it all earlier so that I would have maximized all this sweating. I thought low cal was the way to go b/c by diminishing the supply, my body would be digging through the "fat reserves" and burn it all. I get an F for that way of thinking for sure!
I did take pictures though. At least I got one thing right. I'm one of those people who weigh more than they "look" like, if that makes sense. So I rely mostly on pictures to see a difference (Now I know that measurements are very telling too). In month one, there was considerable change when comparing the pics (waist, thighs). The pics are due for the end of Month 2, which is this Sunday. I'll see then if there has been any change.
After reading more about how our body functions, I'm not surprised that some of that is muscle mass. It irritates me though. I'd say that I've been eating a fair amount of protein. When I was low cal, about 70g on average. Now it averages to 110g.
Why do body improvements have more to do with weight gain?
And you're right that the net cal add isn't enough to net me to my BMR. I'm supposed to be eating 2100 cal. I'm at 2000 AND I nurse my boy (which isn't taken into acct in the 2100 cal). Even at 2000 cal, I can tell I can do more (food wise), that I can push my cal intake higher. Whenever I would increase, I would be satisfied for a couple of days, then my body would ask for more. Instead of listening, I would be like "Hey what the heck, chill out. I'm not gonna eat the whole house!!" Talk about shutting my body down. To be honest, I was just scared that it would turn out to be too much food. *sigh*
You're right: there IS a reason why the product guides to eat more. THIS is what happens when you're stubborn and thinks you know better. Your explanations are ON POINT.
Ok, check this out. For the next month, my plan is as follows: moderate cardio 3x/wk (minimum 30 mins, max 60) and full body strength training 2x/week (DVD, 40 mins upper*, 40 mins lower*). With that, I think I'm slowing things down (compared to the intensity of Insanity). With that, I plan on going with "3-5 hrs Moderate". You think I will I need to bump it up to 5-6hrs (with the busy home life)? That will mean that I will continue shooting for 2100 cal (+nursing cal)? Will you explain, please?
*Including warm up and cool down/stretch0 -
Sadly, no measurements. I'm still learning what the "good habits" are (measuring, determining BF%, etc.) I wish I had known about it all earlier so that I would have maximized all this sweating. I thought low cal was the way to go b/c by diminishing the supply, my body would be digging through the "fat reserves" and burn it all. I get an F for that way of thinking for sure!
You had the right idea, eating less than needed burns fat, but along with the vast majority, you had no idea what you should be eating less than.Why do body improvements have more to do with weight gain?
Start storing more glucose for longer energy needs you are now doing. Glucose stores with water, to the tune of 500 calories worth weighs 1 lb.
More blood flow to muscles needed to get required oxygen to burn the fuel, more arteries/vessels requires more blood volume, more water.
Muscle actually used retains water during repair, and slightly more all the time when under use.
Bone density increases for resistance or impact exercise.
More water stored for sweating for cooling which is also increased blood volume.
While that may be mainly water increases, that is actually what the main energy burn of BMR is - water management. Increased LBM which is mainly water is increased metabolism.And you're right that the net cal add isn't enough to net me to my BMR. I'm supposed to be eating 2100 cal. I'm at 2000 AND I nurse my boy (which isn't taken into acct in the 2100 cal). Even at 2000 cal, I can tell I can do more (food wise), that I can push my cal intake higher. Whenever I would increase, I would be satisfied for a couple of days, then my body would ask for more. Instead of listening, I would be like "Hey what the heck, chill out. I'm not gonna eat the whole house!!" Talk about shutting my body down. To be honest, I was just scared that it would turn out to be too much food. *sigh*
At a certain point though your body will want to make improvements and for purpose of fat loss, you are not going to provide enough, you should plateau performance wise, or very very slow progress, but that should take a while if starting out. So at some point being hungry is expected, and you can't feed it all.Ok, check this out. For the next month, my plan is as follows: moderate cardio 3x/wk (minimum 30 mins, max 60) and full body strength training 2x/week (DVD, 40 mins upper*, 40 mins lower*). With that, I think I'm slowing things down (compared to the intensity of Insanity). With that, I plan on going with "3-5 hrs Moderate". You think I will I need to bump it up to 5-6hrs (with the busy home life)? That will mean that I will continue shooting for 2100 cal (+nursing cal)? Will you explain, please?
*Including warm up and cool down/stretch
I'd suggest getting your measurements down, get decent estimate of bodyfat, use best estimates of BMR, activity calculator to include your varied routine and homelife, log your progress, and get goal based on amount to lose and type/time of exercise.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker
Suggestion if the cardio really is equally 30 or 60, use 3 x 45 min or 135 weekly. Lifting is just that time, include warmup under light or medium cardio, whichever applies.
And whatever the suggested eating level, add nursing to that as often as needed. MFP has several workouts for that which increase your calories, or negative food items that do the same thing, your choice.0 -
Thanks heybales! I'll get all those #.0
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Bump0
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Bumpity bump.0
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I finally got my measurements down. So excited about that! The results, not so much....I'd suggest getting your measurements down, get decent estimate of bodyfat, use best estimates of BMR, activity calculator to include your varied routine and homelife, log your progress, and get goal based on amount to lose and type/time of exercise.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/961054-spreadsheet-for-bodyfat-bmr-tdee-progress-tracker
Suggestion if the cardio really is equally 30 or 60, use 3 x 45 min or 135 weekly. Lifting is just that time, include warmup under light or medium cardio, whichever applies.
And whatever the suggested eating level, add nursing to that as often as needed. MFP has several workouts for that which increase your calories, or negative food items that do the same thing, your choice.
40.2% BF (Wow!!) --- avg from the site you had given on another post http://www.gymgoal.com/dtool_fat.html
BMR 1364
I'm having a hard time figuring it out "Daily activity during a 40 hour week..." on the spreadsheet. Most of what I do during the day (during those 40 work hours) is cooking, caring after my 8-month old (who likes to play on the floor), working on the pc, walking to the school bus stop, etc. Nothing major at all. Well, it seems to me like nothing. I'm afraid I might over/underestimate the hours and end up with the wrong TDEE (or have too big of a margin for error). What do you suggest?0 -
Hi, everyone!
So I went on the Scooby calorie calculator site, and here are my details:
I'm 24, 5'5" (or 165 cm for those who use the metric system)
BMR: 1448
TDEE: 2245
TDEE - 15%: 1908
TDEE - 20%: 1796
Right now I am 139.6 pounds and I would like to weigh around 126 but no less than 123.
So which number would I put in the calorie goal for MFP?
P.S. The reason why my early entries are VERY low is because MFP recommended me to be on 1230, but by looking through these threads, it made me change my mind about my caloric intake. I tried the 1796 portion for a couple of days, but looking through it again it said I should probably at the 10-15% due to a limited weight loss number (which I read on a different post).0 -
I finally got my measurements down. So excited about that! The results, not so much.
40.2% BF (Wow!!) --- avg from the site you had given on another post http://www.gymgoal.com/dtool_fat.html
BMR 1364
I'm having a hard time figuring it out "Daily activity during a 40 hour week..." on the spreadsheet. Most of what I do during the day (during those 40 work hours) is cooking, caring after my 8-month old (who likes to play on the floor), working on the pc, walking to the school bus stop, etc. Nothing major at all. Well, it seems to me like nothing. I'm afraid I might over/underestimate the hours and end up with the wrong TDEE (or have too big of a margin for error). What do you suggest?
Start with say 1 hr daily above and beyond what sedentary gives you, so 7 hrs in service trades.
Notice how little it changes the TDEE for 7 hrs.
But, you are more than sitting 40 hrs weekly, so rough estimate is fine, and as you see, 5-7 hrs doesn't change stuff much.
So if you replace 8 hrs sitting with 6 hrs basically on your feet, and 2 hrs of sitting time daily, there ya go, 42 hrs service trades.
And look at what people with FitBit or BodyMedia's are reporting for non-exercise days, always higher than they thought.0 -
Hi, everyone!
So I went on the Scooby calorie calculator site, and here are my details:
I'm 24, 5'5" (or 165 cm for those who use the metric system)
BMR: 1448
TDEE: 2245
TDEE - 15%: 1908
TDEE - 20%: 1796
Right now I am 139.6 pounds and I would like to weigh around 126 but no less than 123.
So which number would I put in the calorie goal for MFP?
P.S. The reason why my early entries are VERY low is because MFP recommended me to be on 1230, but by looking through these threads, it made me change my mind about my caloric intake. I tried the 1796 portion for a couple of days, but looking through it again it said I should probably at the 10-15% due to a limited weight loss number (which I read on a different post).
I'd agree 15% until 10 lbs left, then 10% deficit.
In your Goals - Custom Goals, you put that deficit figure in the NET eating goal, even though you are now treating it as Gross eating goal - meaning no calorie eatback if or when you log exercise you already had planned.
If extra above planned, eat it back.0 -
Indeed, the difference is tiny!Start with say 1 hr daily above and beyond what sedentary gives you, so 7 hrs in service trades.
Notice how little it changes the TDEE for 7 hrs.
But, you are more than sitting 40 hrs weekly, so rough estimate is fine, and as you see, 5-7 hrs doesn't change stuff much.
So if you replace 8 hrs sitting with 6 hrs basically on your feet, and 2 hrs of sitting time daily, there ya go, 42 hrs service trades.
And look at what people with FitBit or BodyMedia's are reporting for non-exercise days, always higher than they thought.
Alright, I plugged in 42 hours service trades. It surprised me to see what people actually burned on non-exercise days. It feels like nothing while you're going up and down, doing this, doing that. lol
Numbers:
BMR 1364
TDEE 2192
TDEG 1722
So 1722 it is!
How do I know that my body is responding positively/negatively to the calorie intake? If I have understood your explanations correctly, weight gain might be a sign of positive response, right? Since I plan on lifting this month.
Is my BMR that low (compared to 1543 with Harris) because my body fat is actually higher than what the Harris formula assumes?
Thanks a lot for taking the time to help me understand this.0 -
bump0
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Thanks for all this info :-)0
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Numbers:
BMR 1364
TDEE 2192
TDEG 1722
So 1722 it is!
How do I know that my body is responding positively/negatively to the calorie intake? If I have understood your explanations correctly, weight gain might be a sign of positive response, right? Since I plan on lifting this month.
Is my BMR that low (compared to 1543 with Harris) because my body fat is actually higher than what the Harris formula assumes?
So Harris BMR is based on study of healthy weight people, avg BF%, from 1919 actually.
So very rarely is someone going to keep that same BF% as you go overweight, except lifter perhaps.
So indeed, BF higher than what Harris assumes, which is unrealistic when overweight anyway.
Since coming up in calorie level I'll assume, you should gain some water weight, unless your carbs stores have always been topped off.
Only weigh on valid days, and every 2 weeks do measurements on same valid day. Update stats and see if it changes TDEG enough to worry about.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium level and not sore from prior lifting workout.
If those 2 BF calcs are more than 10% difference, you could even see what appears to be BF go up - but rest assured measurements are just getting more accurate and reflecting what was already the case.
But at least it is self-correcting.
Another thing you should notice eating more, better energy.
But since this is weight loss recommendation, not performance improvement recommendation, you'll see performance increase for decent amount of time, inches drop, perhaps not much weight. But performance should plateau as not eating enough. That's when weight drops too.
But then you should be hungry while lifting. Your body wants to either keep progressing or feed the rebuilding it wants to do - but you are going to force it to use more fat as energy, and just use what you eat.
You will have to fight the hunger.
Solution if it gets bad, go to maintenance lifting, keep the deficit if weight must be lost.
You can tweak it too for loss and improvement - eat more than TDEG on lifting days, like extra 200 post workout. You decide how much weight loss impact you are willing to take. You have your TDEE figure, you know what you could eat up to if desired if excited about performance increases.
But it's a trade-off, strength gains or weight loss. But on lifting which include the body, 5 lbs off body is 5 lbs on the bar anyway.0 -
great explanation! thanks0
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Thanks heybales!
It really helps me when I have an idea what might be going on "behind the scenes."
I'll do the measurements in a couple of weeks and see if anything has changed. 0 -
So, under the Net calories consumed we enter the TDEG? For the macros which one is better: 40/40/20 or 40/30/30? In "my home" does this mean goal equal TDEG and Net is BMR?
In your Goals - Custom Goals, you put that deficit figure in the NET eating goal, even though you are now treating it as Gross eating goal - meaning no calorie eatback if or when you log exercise you already had planned.
If extra above planned, eat it back.
I am confused..0 -
Ok heybales, I've been following your advice and here am I today! Well, it's only been two weeks, but I wanted to check if I'm doing this right so far. Last Sunday marked the two-week period. I weighed and measured myself that day....
Only weigh on valid days, and every 2 weeks do measurements on same valid day. Update stats and see if it changes TDEG enough to worry about.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium level and not sore from prior lifting workout.
...
When I started eating at 1722, I weighed 169.6 lbs (76.9kg).
Last Sunday (two weeks later), I weighed 165.6 lbs (75.1kg).
Measurements have gone down (for the most part). Numbers in cm.
Neck -0.2
Forearm -0.7
Waist -1.6
Abdomen +1.8 (I don't get why this has gone up)
Hips -0.9
Thigh -1.5
Calf +0.2 (I have skinny calves so this is good news lol)
Wrist +0.2 (okaaay)
I've plugged the # back in and got 39.3% BF (it was 40.2 two weeks ago). I have yet to enter the figures in the spreadsheet to see if that changes anything.
What do you think of the numbers? Good news? Bad news? Too early to tell if I'm in the right direction?0 -
So, under the Net calories consumed we enter the TDEG? For the macros which one is better: 40/40/20 or 40/30/30? In "my home" does this mean goal equal TDEG and Net is BMR?
I am confused..
You weren't confused up until last question.
Follow the directions in the spreadsheet exactly for what you change.
Yes TDEG value goes in to what MFP calls Net calories.
Macros is given to you in spreadsheet, use what it says.
Last question doesn't make sense.0 -
Ok heybales, I've been following your advice and here am I today! Well, it's only been two weeks, but I wanted to check if I'm doing this right so far. Last Sunday marked the two-week period. I weighed and measured myself that day.
When I started eating at 1722, I weighed 169.6 lbs (76.9kg).
Last Sunday (two weeks later), I weighed 165.6 lbs (75.1kg).
Measurements have gone down (for the most part). Numbers in cm.
Neck -0.2
Forearm -0.7
Waist -1.6
Abdomen +1.8 (I don't get why this has gone up)
Hips -0.9
Thigh -1.5
Calf +0.2 (I have skinny calves so this is good news lol)
Wrist +0.2 (okaaay)
I've plugged the # back in and got 39.3% BF (it was 40.2 two weeks ago). I have yet to enter the figures in the spreadsheet to see if that changes anything.
What do you think of the numbers? Good news? Bad news? Too early to tell if I'm in the right direction?
You lost 4 lbs and many inches in 2 weeks. I sure hope you think this is a good direction.
Even if your deficit doesn't allow for that much fat to be lost, can be water weight easily.
So that may or may not change the eating goal, depends on if you retained LBM or not. And don't worry, LBM is muscle and water and everything non-fat. You will lose LBM. You'd just rather it be fat first and mainly.
So great results, keep up your good logging and sticking to meeting your goals.0 -
Okay...I am in...I think. Looks like I have been undereating quite a bit, even though I have not really been starved or even all that hungry. But I am pretty comfortable with the concept and it seems more common sense than low cal + eat back what you earn. Essentially it seems like a sustainable concept with fewer variables. Just need to be careful and watch your eating and exercise. Kind of scary to think to eat more though! And exciting 0
