TDEE & BMR: What they are and what to do with them

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  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    thanks for the response. i'm not understanding how to calculate. when i added my weight, height, and age 1826.95 is what i was given as bmr. i believe that will change as i lose. with that # i multiplied it with my excercise activity (1.55) and got 2831.75 - I am lost trying to understand what to do after. I took the 2831.75, multiplied it by days of the week (7) and subtracted 7000 (2 lbs) and then divided by 7 to get 1831.75 on days i work out. on days i dont work out, not sure if i calculated correctly. do i take 2831.75 and multiply by 1.2? i did and used that same formula (multiplied it by days of the week (7) and subtracted 7000 (2 lbs) and then divided by 7 ) and got 2098.33 - where am i off track? ( i am 5'6, 237 lbs, f, 36yr)
    this is the site i used
    http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/

    Sorry, I was asking more if you understood what BMR represented, because you said your new BMR is this on workout days and this on rest days. That's not BMR.

    BMR may or may not change as you lose. If you can retain muscle mass, it will lower very little.

    No, you don't multiply stuff by an activity factor 2 times. This is what I mean by you don't really understand the principle of what you are doing, evidenced by you really don't understand what the terms mean.
    You must understand that, or you will be fouled up.
    Read the forums even in this group, and even ones that do understand what those things mean get fouled up by short-term results sometimes. If you are in the dark about , imagine how bad that will be.

    First, don't use that site, that's the worst BMR to start with when overweight, it's inflated. Your real BMR is lower than that estimate. Enough so that if you actually have lost muscle mass because of past diets, you may not really have a deficit to lose weight.

    Use the spreadsheet on my profile page, stick to the Simple Setup tab. It's asking for all the stats you already have memorized, and some measurements you hopefully already have been getting anyway.
    Some have said everything clicked when they saw the numbers change based on what they entered. It may help you.
  • phenom0217
    phenom0217 Posts: 8 Member
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    thanks for the response. i'm not understanding how to calculate. when i added my weight, height, and age 1826.95 is what i was given as bmr. i believe that will change as i lose. with that # i multiplied it with my excercise activity (1.55) and got 2831.75 - I am lost trying to understand what to do after. I took the 2831.75, multiplied it by days of the week (7) and subtracted 7000 (2 lbs) and then divided by 7 to get 1831.75 on days i work out. on days i dont work out, not sure if i calculated correctly. do i take 2831.75 and multiply by 1.2? i did and used that same formula (multiplied it by days of the week (7) and subtracted 7000 (2 lbs) and then divided by 7 ) and got 2098.33 - where am i off track? ( i am 5'6, 237 lbs, f, 36yr)
    this is the site i used
    http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/


    Sorry, I was asking more if you understood what BMR represented, because you said your new BMR is this on workout days and this on rest days. That's not BMR.

    BMR may or may not change as you lose. If you can retain muscle mass, it will lower very little.

    No, you don't multiply stuff by an activity factor 2 times. This is what I mean by you don't really understand the principle of what you are doing, evidenced by you really don't understand what the terms mean.
    You must understand that, or you will be fouled up.
    Read the forums even in this group, and even ones that do understand what those things mean get fouled up by short-term results sometimes. If you are in the dark about , imagine how bad that will be.

    First, don't use that site, that's the worst BMR to start with when overweight, it's inflated. Your real BMR is lower than that estimate. Enough so that if you actually have lost muscle mass because of past diets, you may not really have a deficit to lose weight.

    Use the spreadsheet on my profile page, stick to the Simple Setup tab. It's asking for all the stats you already have memorized, and some measurements you hopefully already have been getting anyway.
    Some have said everything clicked when they saw the numbers change based on what they entered. It may help you.

    thank you!
  • ochibi91
    ochibi91 Posts: 115 Member
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    Hi all. Thank you for the informative post. I noticed that OP suggested we ask for help if we're already at week 6 with no progress whatsoever.

    I'm at week 6 (since beginning of January) and have not lost weight or inches so I'm quite desperate now. Could anyone please help me review what I've been doing to see whether I've done anything wrong? I've opened up my diary so that everyone can have a look. My stats are as follows:

    Height: 5 feet 1
    Age: 22
    Current weight: 116lbs (same since mid December)
    Goal weight: 105lbs
    Body fat %: 25% according to fat2fit

    I eat as cleanly as possible and hardly eat out. I log what I eat and measure my food using a scale. I only drink green tea and water. Of course, I do have the occasional treats like cookies so that I don't feel deprived. I'm looking to lose those last 10 pounds of fat. I'm aware that I'm at a healthy weight but I look squishy and chubby. I've always been that fluffy kid in pictures and I want to shed that image once and for all.

    As for exercise, I work out 4~5 times a week which puts me under 'moderately active', but I set my activity level to lightly active instead because I'm sedentary for the rest of the day. My bum is literally glued to the chair. So I get a tdee of 1564 from http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ if I set my activity level to 1-3 hrs of light exercise. 1564 is quite high for me since I've always been eating at 1200~1350 net. Occasionally I do eat 1500~1600. I don't usually eat back my exercise calories, even when I was eating 1,350 cals so I might have been eating below my BMR sometimes. I know that's not healthy. Lastly, I did have some cheat days where I don't log my calories. I logged once and I reached 2000cals! I got shocked. Now, I am trying to eat around 1,350, which is calculation I got from fat2fit at a 20% deficit.

    I don't mind not losing any pounds if I'm losing inches all around my body, so please help, anyone. Thanks!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Hi all. Thank you for the informative post. I noticed that OP suggested we ask for help if we're already at week 6 with no progress whatsoever.

    I'm at week 6 (since beginning of January) and have not lost weight or inches so I'm quite desperate now. Could anyone please help me review what I've been doing to see whether I've done anything wrong? I've opened up my diary so that everyone can have a look. My stats are as follows:

    Height: 5 feet 1
    Age: 22
    Current weight: 116lbs (same since mid December)
    Goal weight: 105lbs
    Body fat %: 25% according to fat2fit

    I eat as cleanly as possible and hardly eat out. I log what I eat and measure my food using a scale. I only drink green tea and water. Of course, I do have the occasional treats like cookies so that I don't feel deprived. I'm looking to lose those last 10 pounds of fat. I'm aware that I'm at a healthy weight but I look squishy and chubby. I've always been that fluffy kid in pictures and I want to shed that image once and for all.

    As for exercise, I work out 4~5 times a week which puts me under 'moderately active', but I set my activity level to lightly active instead because I'm sedentary for the rest of the day. My bum is literally glued to the chair. So I get a tdee of 1564 from http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ if I set my activity level to 1-3 hrs of light exercise. 1564 is quite high for me since I've always been eating at 1200~1350 net. Occasionally I do eat 1500~1600. I don't usually eat back my exercise calories, even when I was eating 1,350 cals so I might have been eating below my BMR sometimes. I know that's not healthy. Lastly, I did have some cheat days where I don't log my calories. I logged once and I reached 2000cals! I got shocked. Now, I am trying to eat around 1,350, which is calculation I got from fat2fit at a 20% deficit.

    I don't mind not losing any pounds if I'm losing inches all around my body, so please help, anyone. Thanks!

    Which fat2fit BF% calc did you use? The 1 or 2 measurement method can be about useless.
    Avg the Covert and Military that use several measurements.

    Did you use that BF% on the scooby site for Katch BMR?

    Because you aren't doing yourself any favors reading the scooby site wrong.
    Even at rough 5 levels you are guestimating to be on the safe side - has it helped?

    Be honest, how many hours of exercise a week is Sedentary?
    How many hours a week of exercise are you doing?

    Did you see anything in those level descriptions concerning daily life outside exercise?
    No. That is MFP, that only deals with daily activity without exercise - just opposite.

    Sounds like you are saying you are almost skinny fat then, healthy weight range but more fat than desired and noticeable.
    That usually comes from bad choices losing weight, which ends up being muscle mass, not just or primarily fat.

    Don't risk doing it again, unless you just want a lighter version of current self.

    So with little to lose, you should be trying to lose little. 10% deficit max for last 10 lbs. And an honest TDEE estimate, which you aren't being.

    Or use the spreadsheet on my profile page and be honest there too with your activity levels for the exercise.
  • ochibi91
    ochibi91 Posts: 115 Member
    Options
    Hi all. Thank you for the informative post. I noticed that OP suggested we ask for help if we're already at week 6 with no progress whatsoever.

    I'm at week 6 (since beginning of January) and have not lost weight or inches so I'm quite desperate now. Could anyone please help me review what I've been doing to see whether I've done anything wrong? I've opened up my diary so that everyone can have a look. My stats are as follows:

    Height: 5 feet 1
    Age: 22
    Current weight: 116lbs (same since mid December)
    Goal weight: 105lbs
    Body fat %: 25% according to fat2fit

    I eat as cleanly as possible and hardly eat out. I log what I eat and measure my food using a scale. I only drink green tea and water. Of course, I do have the occasional treats like cookies so that I don't feel deprived. I'm looking to lose those last 10 pounds of fat. I'm aware that I'm at a healthy weight but I look squishy and chubby. I've always been that fluffy kid in pictures and I want to shed that image once and for all.

    As for exercise, I work out 4~5 times a week which puts me under 'moderately active', but I set my activity level to lightly active instead because I'm sedentary for the rest of the day. My bum is literally glued to the chair. So I get a tdee of 1564 from http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/ if I set my activity level to 1-3 hrs of light exercise. 1564 is quite high for me since I've always been eating at 1200~1350 net. Occasionally I do eat 1500~1600. I don't usually eat back my exercise calories, even when I was eating 1,350 cals so I might have been eating below my BMR sometimes. I know that's not healthy. Lastly, I did have some cheat days where I don't log my calories. I logged once and I reached 2000cals! I got shocked. Now, I am trying to eat around 1,350, which is calculation I got from fat2fit at a 20% deficit.

    I don't mind not losing any pounds if I'm losing inches all around my body, so please help, anyone. Thanks!

    Which fat2fit BF% calc did you use? The 1 or 2 measurement method can be about useless.
    Avg the Covert and Military that use several measurements.

    Did you use that BF% on the scooby site for Katch BMR?

    Because you aren't doing yourself any favors reading the scooby site wrong.
    Even at rough 5 levels you are guestimating to be on the safe side - has it helped?

    Be honest, how many hours of exercise a week is Sedentary?
    How many hours a week of exercise are you doing?

    Did you see anything in those level descriptions concerning daily life outside exercise?
    No. That is MFP, that only deals with daily activity without exercise - just opposite.

    Sounds like you are saying you are almost skinny fat then, healthy weight range but more fat than desired and noticeable.
    That usually comes from bad choices losing weight, which ends up being muscle mass, not just or primarily fat.

    Don't risk doing it again, unless you just want a lighter version of current self.

    So with little to lose, you should be trying to lose little. 10% deficit max for last 10 lbs. And an honest TDEE estimate, which you aren't being.

    Or use the spreadsheet on my profile page and be honest there too with your activity levels for the exercise.

    I used the military one on fat2fit and it gave me around 25% body fat, so I used that on the scooby site.

    I really don't know how many hours of exercise a week is considered Sedentary. I just know that I'm glued to my chair most of the day except when I work out. Whenever I work out, I try to exercise 45 ~ 60 minutes so that makes it around 3~4 hours of exercise a week. It may be less if I only manage to work out 30 minutes a day. My workouts are of varying intensities. They range from light to moderate. I do HIIT on my stationery bike for cardio.

    Yes, I can agree with you that I am skinny fat and I also agree that I don't have much weight to lose, only stubborn fat. I can see some nice abs beneath my belly fat when I flex my muscles so I'm really looking forward to losing some body fat.

    Okay, so I went back to the scooby site and inputted 3-5 hours of moderate exercise as my activity level and got 1866 cals. It's much higher than what I'm used to eating on average, but if it will help, then I will definitely do it.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I used the military one on fat2fit and it gave me around 25% body fat, so I used that on the scooby site.

    I really don't know how many hours of exercise a week is considered Sedentary. I just know that I'm glued to my chair most of the day except when I work out. Whenever I work out, I try to exercise 45 ~ 60 minutes so that makes it around 3~4 hours of exercise a week. It may be less if I only manage to work out 30 minutes a day. My workouts are of varying intensities. They range from light to moderate. I do HIIT on my stationery bike for cardio.

    Yes, I can agree with you that I am skinny fat and I also agree that I don't have much weight to lose, only stubborn fat. I can see some nice abs beneath my belly fat when I flex my muscles so I'm really looking forward to losing some body fat.

    Okay, so I went back to the scooby site and inputted 3-5 hours of moderate exercise as my activity level and got 1866 cals. It's much higher than what I'm used to eating on average, but if it will help, then I will definitely do it.

    Might use both calcs for an average BF%.

    Also, that link you provided has no place to input BF%, so I don't know if you got the Katch BMR that even uses it.
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

    So it sounds like you went back and read the actual descriptions of the exercise levels then. See, it said how many hours in there. This is your body you are talking about, don't be haphazard, that can work at the start with a lot to lose and with perhaps few negative results, but that's bad later on.

    So HIIT, if done correctly, is not moderate, should be intense. Those TDEE descriptions are not about what the exercise it, but the time per week doing them.
    Most would appreciate that walking 10 hrs daily light intensity for 3-4 mph would NOT be Lightly Active. But neither would 1 hr of walking equal 1 hr of running.

    Hence the suggestion to use the spreadsheet if you want best estimates to get closest to estimated TDEE.

    While close to 1900 eating may be higher than what you were doing - how does it compare exactly to what you ate when you weren't exercising and weren't on a diet?

    To the workouts, you are doing the HIIT because of fat burn compared to steady state cardio right?
    Well, what allows you to push so hard on the hard part?
    The rest in-between, right.
    So look at your weekly schedule - you aren't doing HIIT every day, right? Where's the easy part so the intense day can be really intense for maximum effect?

    To the HIIT, proper usage would be 15-45 seconds of increased tension and faster cadence for all out push, and then 3 x as long so 45 to 135 seconds of low tension and slightly slower cadence to recover. Do about 8-10 sets, start and end with warm-up and cooldown. Not every day as I mentioned above.
  • ochibi91
    ochibi91 Posts: 115 Member
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    I used the military one on fat2fit and it gave me around 25% body fat, so I used that on the scooby site.

    I really don't know how many hours of exercise a week is considered Sedentary. I just know that I'm glued to my chair most of the day except when I work out. Whenever I work out, I try to exercise 45 ~ 60 minutes so that makes it around 3~4 hours of exercise a week. It may be less if I only manage to work out 30 minutes a day. My workouts are of varying intensities. They range from light to moderate. I do HIIT on my stationery bike for cardio.

    Yes, I can agree with you that I am skinny fat and I also agree that I don't have much weight to lose, only stubborn fat. I can see some nice abs beneath my belly fat when I flex my muscles so I'm really looking forward to losing some body fat.

    Okay, so I went back to the scooby site and inputted 3-5 hours of moderate exercise as my activity level and got 1866 cals. It's much higher than what I'm used to eating on average, but if it will help, then I will definitely do it.

    Might use both calcs for an average BF%.

    Also, that link you provided has no place to input BF%, so I don't know if you got the Katch BMR that even uses it.
    http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/

    So it sounds like you went back and read the actual descriptions of the exercise levels then. See, it said how many hours in there. This is your body you are talking about, don't be haphazard, that can work at the start with a lot to lose and with perhaps few negative results, but that's bad later on.

    So HIIT, if done correctly, is not moderate, should be intense. Those TDEE descriptions are not about what the exercise it, but the time per week doing them.
    Most would appreciate that walking 10 hrs daily light intensity for 3-4 mph would NOT be Lightly Active. But neither would 1 hr of walking equal 1 hr of running.

    Hence the suggestion to use the spreadsheet if you want best estimates to get closest to estimated TDEE.

    While close to 1900 eating may be higher than what you were doing - how does it compare exactly to what you ate when you weren't exercising and weren't on a diet?

    To the workouts, you are doing the HIIT because of fat burn compared to steady state cardio right?
    Well, what allows you to push so hard on the hard part?
    The rest in-between, right.
    So look at your weekly schedule - you aren't doing HIIT every day, right? Where's the easy part so the intense day can be really intense for maximum effect?

    To the HIIT, proper usage would be 15-45 seconds of increased tension and faster cadence for all out push, and then 3 x as long so 45 to 135 seconds of low tension and slightly slower cadence to recover. Do about 8-10 sets, start and end with warm-up and cooldown. Not every day as I mentioned above.

    Sorry, it seems I used the wrong website. I redid it with the link you gave and the scooby site gave me 1623cals which sounds more accurate to me.

    And since you mentioned this: "While close to 1900 eating may be higher than what you were doing - how does it compare exactly to what you ate when you weren't exercising and weren't on a diet?" ... if I were to think about it, I can easily hit that mark when I think about how I used to eat when I hadn't started the diet. So I guess it was just my overreacting and self-doubt.

    I really appreciate your help heybales. I will up my calories and stick with it a little longer. :)
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Options
    There ya go.

    Might also confirm, with so little to lose, confirm you are selecting 10% deficit.

    That way you'll also get the most benefit from the exercise. During good hard exercise, body would of course love to have a surplus of calories to work with.
    Maintenance can still do some changes though slower.
    During a deficit even less changes and much slower.

    Since you have more body recomp you want to do, weight isn't bad, the heavier the weights can be for improving strength and body to make more muscle, the better.
  • ochibi91
    ochibi91 Posts: 115 Member
    Options
    There ya go.

    Might also confirm, with so little to lose, confirm you are selecting 10% deficit.

    That way you'll also get the most benefit from the exercise. During good hard exercise, body would of course love to have a surplus of calories to work with.
    Maintenance can still do some changes though slower.
    During a deficit even less changes and much slower.

    Since you have more body recomp you want to do, weight isn't bad, the heavier the weights can be for improving strength and body to make more muscle, the better.

    Noted. I'm feeling much better already. I'm actually happy that I get to eat more. :) Thank you heybales!
  • euphoria13824
    Options
    Heybales, I have a similar problem to the previous member who posted, except that I've plateaued longer..... Been stuck at the same weight since December last year. I'm looking to lose another 10~15lbs because I look puffy and 'soft'. I have a pear-shaped body so all my excess fat sit stubbornly on my hips and thighs, thus making my body look disproportionate. I am 5 feet 2 and 128 lbs.

    My biggest confusion is on estimating the activity level. I don't work in an office so I don't walk to my car or up and down stairs in the office. I'm always seated at my desk at home and I hardly walk. For example, I'll only get up to walk to the kitchen to grab a glass of water. I fidget quite a lot and I use many hand gestures and I speak. I currently work out 5 times a week, but I set my activity level to lightly active considering how sedentary I am when I am not working out.

    I became quite desperate to lose weight in January and ate about 1250~1300 calories a day (gross) and did not eat back exercise calories, putting me under my bmr sometimes. I go over 1400 2-3 times in a week so I thought it was still okay to be undereating sometimes as long as I average out fine at the end. I also increased my workout days from 3 to 5 and also increased the duration from 30 minutes to 60 minutes. Intensity is also moderate. My ratio of strength training to cardio is currently 3:2. Was I overworking my body? I made sure my muscles were not sore when I worked out and if they still were, I would take a day off.

    Now, I'm wondering whether it's because of the severe calorie restriction and increase of exercise that I didn't manage to lose any weight OR INCHES, since being at such a deficit should have produced some results by now if I were to follow the simply calorie-in, calorie-out logic of losing weight.

    Please help me shed some light. I'm considering upping my calories to 1450~1500cals after reading this topic, but I'm a bit afraid that my actual tdee is lower than scooby's site and I wasn't able to lose weight previously because I had been eating too much. For your information, I do log my food and use a scale to measure. Scooby's site gives me 1514cals to lose weight at only 10% reduction after I put in my body fat %.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Options
    Heybales, I have a similar problem to the previous member who posted, except that I've plateaued longer..... Been stuck at the same weight since December last year. I'm looking to lose another 10~15lbs because I look puffy and 'soft'. I have a pear-shaped body so all my excess fat sit stubbornly on my hips and thighs, thus making my body look disproportionate. I am 5 feet 2 and 128 lbs.

    My biggest confusion is on estimating the activity level. I don't work in an office so I don't walk to my car or up and down stairs in the office. I'm always seated at my desk at home and I hardly walk. For example, I'll only get up to walk to the kitchen to grab a glass of water. I fidget quite a lot and I use many hand gestures and I speak. I currently work out 5 times a week, but I set my activity level to lightly active considering how sedentary I am when I am not working out.

    I became quite desperate to lose weight in January and ate about 1250~1300 calories a day (gross) and did not eat back exercise calories, putting me under my bmr sometimes. I go over 1400 2-3 times in a week so I thought it was still okay to be undereating sometimes as long as I average out fine at the end. I also increased my workout days from 3 to 5 and also increased the duration from 30 minutes to 60 minutes. Intensity is also moderate. My ratio of strength training to cardio is currently 3:2. Was I overworking my body? I made sure my muscles were not sore when I worked out and if they still were, I would take a day off.

    Now, I'm wondering whether it's because of the severe calorie restriction and increase of exercise that I didn't manage to lose any weight OR INCHES, since being at such a deficit should have produced some results by now if I were to follow the simply calorie-in, calorie-out logic of losing weight.

    Please help me shed some light. I'm considering upping my calories to 1450~1500cals after reading this topic, but I'm a bit afraid that my actual tdee is lower than scooby's site and I wasn't able to lose weight previously because I had been eating too much. For your information, I do log my food and use a scale to measure. Scooby's site gives me 1514cals to lose weight at only 10% reduction after I put in my body fat %.

    So eating even less, and working out even more - no positive results.

    Now, that's not a huge increase with either frequency or duration of exercise, but if already too big a deficit than your body felt comfortable with, then eating even less and increasing it isn't going to help.

    That's a great routine it sounds like, if you can realistically manage it, I'd just start eating more.
    True the 1 hr of lifting is not the same as 1 hr of moderate cardio, probably a tad less burn usually. But it does count.

    Have you run through the spreadsheet?
    Because sedentary as a base includes 1 hr of slow walking daily on average, 7 hrs weekly. If you don't think you get that, and you can't get up to that truly on a weekly average, then you could enter negative 5 hrs in the Activity Calc for standing slowly moving time.
  • euphoria13824
    Options
    Heybales, I have a similar problem to the previous member who posted, except that I've plateaued longer..... Been stuck at the same weight since December last year. I'm looking to lose another 10~15lbs because I look puffy and 'soft'. I have a pear-shaped body so all my excess fat sit stubbornly on my hips and thighs, thus making my body look disproportionate. I am 5 feet 2 and 128 lbs.

    My biggest confusion is on estimating the activity level. I don't work in an office so I don't walk to my car or up and down stairs in the office. I'm always seated at my desk at home and I hardly walk. For example, I'll only get up to walk to the kitchen to grab a glass of water. I fidget quite a lot and I use many hand gestures and I speak. I currently work out 5 times a week, but I set my activity level to lightly active considering how sedentary I am when I am not working out.

    I became quite desperate to lose weight in January and ate about 1250~1300 calories a day (gross) and did not eat back exercise calories, putting me under my bmr sometimes. I go over 1400 2-3 times in a week so I thought it was still okay to be undereating sometimes as long as I average out fine at the end. I also increased my workout days from 3 to 5 and also increased the duration from 30 minutes to 60 minutes. Intensity is also moderate. My ratio of strength training to cardio is currently 3:2. Was I overworking my body? I made sure my muscles were not sore when I worked out and if they still were, I would take a day off.

    Now, I'm wondering whether it's because of the severe calorie restriction and increase of exercise that I didn't manage to lose any weight OR INCHES, since being at such a deficit should have produced some results by now if I were to follow the simply calorie-in, calorie-out logic of losing weight.

    Please help me shed some light. I'm considering upping my calories to 1450~1500cals after reading this topic, but I'm a bit afraid that my actual tdee is lower than scooby's site and I wasn't able to lose weight previously because I had been eating too much. For your information, I do log my food and use a scale to measure. Scooby's site gives me 1514cals to lose weight at only 10% reduction after I put in my body fat %.

    So eating even less, and working out even more - no positive results.

    Now, that's not a huge increase with either frequency or duration of exercise, but if already too big a deficit than your body felt comfortable with, then eating even less and increasing it isn't going to help.

    That's a great routine it sounds like, if you can realistically manage it, I'd just start eating more.
    True the 1 hr of lifting is not the same as 1 hr of moderate cardio, probably a tad less burn usually. But it does count.

    Have you run through the spreadsheet?
    Because sedentary as a base includes 1 hr of slow walking daily on average, 7 hrs weekly. If you don't think you get that, and you can't get up to that truly on a weekly average, then you could enter negative 5 hrs in the Activity Calc for standing slowly moving time.

    I haven't run through the spreadsheet yet. I'll do that soon. I bet I don't even get 7 hours of walking so my only 'activity' is when I work out.
  • euphoria13824
    Options
    Heybales, I have run the spreadsheet and entered negative 5 hrs in the Activity Calc for standing slowly moving time. I tried to be as accurate as possible based on my workout routines in the past weeks and got tdee of 1584cals. The spreadsheet gave me a Total Daily Eating Goal (TDEG) of 1222 (22.8% deficit). 1222 is a bit too low for me now, so can I just use the tdee minus 10~15% here instead?

    I'm just a little perplexed... If my actual tdee was close to 1584 calories, I should have lost at least some weight by now since I was in a calorie deficit.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Options
    Yes, you can view that TDEG as max deficit to retain muscle mass. Actually, it's based on study where they gained LBM while lifting with steeper deficit.

    But it's for fat loss, not performance. Always eat more up to TDEE for adherence to diet if needed, and for performance gains if that is of more interest than fat loss being at max.

    And that is estimated TDEE, a months worth of data and results can help point out true TDEE - but you have to come in from the high side.

    You probably need to take a diet break and eat at estimated TDEE for awhile, unstress your body.
    And examine your logging of food, weighing everything, with such a small margin for error, you'll have to do much right to see good results.

    At least after a month of good data, even if sloppy logging, you can cut calories from an inaccurate eating level and cause loss, knowing that truthfully you are eating more than your goal would indicate.

    But you'll need a month, valid weigh-ins, and no change or addition of intense exercise before any weigh-in on the range.
    Progress tab has a TDEE calc on right that helps with that. But only useful if coming in from high side and not potentially suppressed TDEE already.
    No need chasing a suppressed TDEE in to the ground more, no place to go then.
  • euphoria13824
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    Yes, you can view that TDEG as max deficit to retain muscle mass. Actually, it's based on study where they gained LBM while lifting with steeper deficit.

    But it's for fat loss, not performance. Always eat more up to TDEE for adherence to diet if needed, and for performance gains if that is of more interest than fat loss being at max.

    And that is estimated TDEE, a months worth of data and results can help point out true TDEE - but you have to come in from the high side.

    You probably need to take a diet break and eat at estimated TDEE for awhile, unstress your body.
    And examine your logging of food, weighing everything, with such a small margin for error, you'll have to do much right to see good results.

    At least after a month of good data, even if sloppy logging, you can cut calories from an inaccurate eating level and cause loss, knowing that truthfully you are eating more than your goal would indicate.

    But you'll need a month, valid weigh-ins, and no change or addition of intense exercise before any weigh-in on the range.
    Progress tab has a TDEE calc on right that helps with that. But only useful if coming in from high side and not potentially suppressed TDEE already.
    No need chasing a suppressed TDEE in to the ground more, no place to go then.

    I thought about how I was logging my food last night and decided to be more strict. Sometimes I don't log my cooking oil and other sauces like soya sauce and oyster sauces.

    I was surprised that my tdee was only 1584, despite working out 5 days a week. Based on the conservative assumption that I burn 150 calories for each workout, it's hard to believe that my inaccurate logging can cancel out my 750 exercise calories per week. I am going to order a fitbit. I hope that this way, my tdee can be tracked as accurately as possible. I heard that fitbit is fairly accurate within a 10% margin. I'm also considering cycling my calories, like maybe have 1 day a week where I eat a few hundred calories above my tdee to kick-start my metabolism.

    Okay, I'll give it another month by eating at my estimated tdee and see how it goes. After that, I will still eat around 1300~1400 calories a day, without eating back exercise calories.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    I'd suggest against the eating in surplus until metabolism is burning fine.
    1 day of surplus is just seen as surplus, and that is stored as fat.

    That is exactly how someone that is bad about binging on a low calorie diet gains weight and fat. They've suppressed their system, and their binge days and meals just adds fat - doesn't increase metabolism. Body's storing fat incase the craziness continues.

    The TDEE deficit method already calorie cycles if you think about. You are eating the same amount daily, but are you actually burning exactly the same amount daily?
    No, some days is bigger deficit than others really, depending on the workouts.
    TDEE deficit method is the ultimate calorie cycling method really.

    Since your TDEE is based on your BMR, and BMR is based on BF%, you did enter the results from the BF calc in to the field asking for that stat? You didn't leave the example 42%?

    And you got your time of exercise entered in correctly? It states how many hrs a week that workout is, sounds right?
    So 5 days x 60 min, should say 5 hrs. ratio 3:2, so 3 hrs lifting, 2 hrs high cardio?
    Lifting doesn't burn that many calories, hence it's own line. High cardio if more intense than walking level 4 mph.
    If your are lighter actually, then indeed not as much of a burn.

    And if your BMR is really low because of higher BF%, then the FitBit is going to be inaccurate too, because it's basing the BMR which is used for calorie burn for all non-moving time, on your age, weight, height. And if your Katch BMR is lower than that BMR by fair amount - it will be inflating calorie burn by a fair amount too, especially if that sedentary with lots of non-moving time.
  • euphoria13824
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    I'd suggest against the eating in surplus until metabolism is burning fine.
    1 day of surplus is just seen as surplus, and that is stored as fat.

    That is exactly how someone that is bad about binging on a low calorie diet gains weight and fat. They've suppressed their system, and their binge days and meals just adds fat - doesn't increase metabolism. Body's storing fat incase the craziness continues.

    The TDEE deficit method already calorie cycles if you think about. You are eating the same amount daily, but are you actually burning exactly the same amount daily?
    No, some days is bigger deficit than others really, depending on the workouts.
    TDEE deficit method is the ultimate calorie cycling method really.

    Since your TDEE is based on your BMR, and BMR is based on BF%, you did enter the results from the BF calc in to the field asking for that stat? You didn't leave the example 42%?

    And you got your time of exercise entered in correctly? It states how many hrs a week that workout is, sounds right?
    So 5 days x 60 min, should say 5 hrs. ratio 3:2, so 3 hrs lifting, 2 hrs high cardio?
    Lifting doesn't burn that many calories, hence it's own line. High cardio if more intense than walking level 4 mph.
    If your are lighter actually, then indeed not as much of a burn.

    And if your BMR is really low because of higher BF%, then the FitBit is going to be inaccurate too, because it's basing the BMR which is used for calorie burn for all non-moving time, on your age, weight, height. And if your Katch BMR is lower than that BMR by fair amount - it will be inflating calorie burn by a fair amount too, especially if that sedentary with lots of non-moving time.

    Okay, so no calorie surplus.

    Yes, I exchanged the 42% to 25% which is my current BF level.

    I work out about 60mins for 5 days a week so that makes it 5 hours, which was spot on when I inputted my data into the spreadsheet.

    Most sites estimate my bmr to be about 1334~ 1343 calories. MFP and katch estimates it to be about 1,224, so that's a difference of about 100 calories.

    So how can I set my fitbit to estimate my tdee as accurately as possible? Is there a way to tweak it?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    FitBit_BodyMedia tab in the spreadsheet.

    Several methods of using the data from the device. Since it's not going to estimate your lifting correctly at all, limited use there. Cardio may if it's step based.
  • euphoria13824
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    I've read from the experience of other users that they use fitbit to estimate tdee and then add in exercise calories from those activities that fitbit doesn't track properly - like biking. My cardio days are cycling on my stationery bike. So, can I take the tdee amount from fitbit as my base and then add in calories from my workouts, probably underestimating a little since you mentioned fitbit may inflate calorie burn if I'm sedentary with lots of non-moving time?
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Unless it's going to motivate you to get around more, I wouldn't waste the money.

    Your going to receive a TDEE figure that is inflated by you don't know how much.
    You are going to add on cycling calorie burn based on accuracy of you don't know how much.
    And you'll leave some off to hope to compensate for inflation of you don't know how much.

    Sounding pretty sketchy there and inaccurate.

    The spreadsheet formula for sedentary, which you adjusted for even more sedentary time, already uses that method, actually RMR for awake non-moving time, BMR for sleeping time.
    And that cycling time you'll have no idea on, so you'll be adding back in a rough estimate.
    Strength training at least in MFP database is decent estimate, it's formula is along the same lines as what the spreadsheet uses based on some studies.

    Well, whatever method, you'll eventually be able to base TDEE estimate on results, as long as you started on the high side.